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Microsoft IT Technology

Microsoft Announces $299.99 Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock That Connects via USB-C (theverge.com) 64

Posted by msmash from the up-next dept.
Microsoft has just officially unveiled the Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock hours after the device leaked. From a report: Priced at $299.99, the new Surface dock will connect over USB-C instead of the proprietary Surface Connect port. Microsoft is planning to keep selling its Surface Dock 2, complete with the Surface Connect port that's designed for Surface devices that don't have USB-C or Thunderbolt 4. This new Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock will support devices other than Surface for the first time. You can connect to it via USB-C, and it supports data transfer speeds of up to 40Gbps and 96W charging thanks to Thunderbolt 4. At the front, there is a single USB-C port alongside a USB-A port but sadly no SD card slot. The rear of the Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock has two USB-C ports, two USB-A ports, a 2.5-gigabit ethernet port, an audio jack, and a security lock slot.
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Microsoft Announces $299.99 Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock That Connects via USB-C More

Microsoft Announces $299.99 Surface Thunderbolt 4 Dock That Connects via USB-C

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  • Isn't it just Intel/Apple branded USB? I thought we were all going to USB. Now there is this thunderbolt.

    • Re:Why is Thunderbolt a thing? (Score:5, Informative)

      by SevenOh2 ( 10343742 ) on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @12:23PM (#63425280)
      USB-C carries many signals. Thunderbolt 4 is PCIe over USB-C. All Thunderbolt 4 is USB-C, but not all USB-C is Thunderbolt 4.
      • Thunderbolt is faster than USBC and has lower latency. This enables such peripherals as external PCI-E devices like high end graphics cards. It can also support multiple USB devices as well as Ethernet cards as a stack. It also used to be able to carry more power, but I am not sure if that is still true. Thunderbolt is a superior connection than USB, if your device supports it.

        • Re: Why is Thunderbolt a thing? (Score:5, Informative)

          by MacMann ( 7518492 ) on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @01:15PM (#63425418)

          Thunderbolt is faster than USBC and has lower latency.

          USB-C is a specification that describes a physical port, a port that is not specific to any one protocol. Thunderbolt is a protocol that has at least two physical ports specified for carrying it. Claiming Thunderbolt is faster than USB-C is a rather nonsense statement because to get the speed of Thunderbolt 4 it must use the USB-C physical port to carry the protocol. Thunderbolt also uses the mini-DP port but, unless there's been something new I am not aware of, the speed of the protocol would be limited by the capabilities of that physical port.

          The USB spec used to have the physical ports and the protocol in the same specification documents, that is no longer true. They have one spec for the physical ports, and another for the protocol, and so confusingly USB ports don't always carry the USB protocol and the USB protocol isn't always carried on USB ports.

          I know tone doesn't translate well over forums like this so don't think I'm trying to be mean, I simply want to correct a misconception on what USB-C means because I have a tendency to be a pedantic ass. Further, I have a tendency for misconceptions on USB to be a particularly sore spot for me for some reason.

          • Being a pedantic ass, almost got me kicked out of the place I live at. You have my support. Also, to my landlady, You don't have kids in someone (except if they are pregnant), You have kids with someone.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by eepok ( 545733 )

            This is literally the best explanation I've read on the topic. Thank you for your pedantry.

      • USB-C carries many signals. Thunderbolt 4 is PCIe over USB-C. All Thunderbolt 4 is USB-C, but not all USB-C is Thunderbolt 4.

        And if you are confused now...you won't be after our next edition of S*O*A*P

    • Thunderbolt is PCIE. It can be carried over a USB-C connector.

    • Many governments have said mobile must use USB C. While most of us know that thunderbolt is just a fancy USB C port I suspect the real story here is that MS, like Apple, is being forced to end is high profit proprietary connector business.

      • Many governments have said mobile must use USB C. While most of us know that thunderbolt is just a fancy USB C port I suspect the real story here is that MS, like Apple, is being forced to end is high profit proprietary connector business.

        It is not. Precisely zero government requirements relate to peripherals. Microsoft's Surface line has for a long time supported charging from a USB-C device since the Surface connector has from the very beginning been nothing more than USB-C and since their charging bricks have from the very beginning being USB-PD with a proprietary connector. Any Surface device with USB-C already supports charging meeting any government requirement.

        Microsoft isn't forced to end it's proprietary connector business, it simpl

        • EDIT: The Surface Connector was nothing more than USB. Obviously it wasn't USB-C since that *is* a connector.

      • Many governments have said mobile must use USB C. While most of us know that thunderbolt is just a fancy USB C port I suspect the real story here is that MS, like Apple, is being forced to end is high profit proprietary connector business.

        We are fortunate to be living in a time when USB is perfect, in it's final form, and that we'll never need another connector. Peak Technology, and it can now be mandated by law by politicians, the arbiters and brain trust of technology. No non compliant connectors, after all, there is no need for them. /s Oh Frabjous day!

        Meanwhile, people like myself would like to present our cable bins, full of all the other final configurations of USB and other cables.

    • USB-C (as referredf to in this article) is merely a physical plug interface.

      The actual data transport is 4 pairs of differential TTL (same as SCSI, but differential SCSI uses 16 or 32 pairs of differential TTL operating at a much lower frequency, and direct keyed rather than encoded transport).

      Then there are the various USB data encoding protocols which can be used to encode the binary data traversing the differential connections. These "encodings" are not in any way related to the "physical plug". You co

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        USB-C: It's a floor wax *and* desert topping! :)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

        RS-232 connector

        For a comment that is pointing out that "the protocol isn't the connector" the above was a pretty big one to miss... RS-232 uses DB25 or DE9 connectors. :)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Sloppy ( 14984 )

      Not just an Apple thing. I recently got an Intel NUC (my new HTPC, yay!) which has it (but I'll probably just use its HDMI out).

      I think it's a thing because it has more bandwidth than USB, but is somehow compatible with it, too. What I can't figure out is why Microsoft releasing docking station (and a surprisingly expensive one) is big news, except that I guess it further mainstreams Thunderbolt?

      • for vacations and the like (IE, would like to play games but don't want to pack up my desktop) i use a akitio node with a GTX 1080 gpu on a laptop with an anemic onboard gpu -- it actually performs quite, quite well.
        something like 90% of the framerate you'd get running the card directly.

        something to consider for your NUC :)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MassacrE ( 763 )

      USB/USB4 are protocols

      USB-C is a port. it supports many different protocols over it - including things like HDMI and DisplayPort. It also supports 240W power delivery.

      Thunderbolt 3.0 is one of the protocols supported over USB-C. It is basically PCIe over a wire.

      USB4 is an incompatible protocol from USB 3.0, and is based on Thunderbolt 3.0. Yeah, the 4 isn't a version number but part of the name - USB4 2.0 is unfortunately a real thing.

      Thunderbolt 4.0 is a brand, but it is by Intel. Think of it like AMD Free

    • Isn't it just Intel/Apple branded USB?

      No. No it is not. It's a whole different standard from the signalling upwards. It just happens to share a USB-C connector.

    • My company uses Lenovo docks and has constant problems with them, crashing, overheating, and they aren't cheap either... $299 is actually a fair price for a decent thunderbolt dock.

    • I was reading the comments for similar reasons. It seems like a fairly generic doc. You can get name brand for half that price and unknown brands for a third.

    • For example from Lenovo.

      You cannot get a Thunderbolt 4 compatible dock from Lenovo for less. If you don't want Thunderbolt 4 then don't get it, you can get a cheaper dock from Microsoft too if you don't want Thunderbolt 4 and are happy with slower transfer speeds.

      Lenovo's cheapest Thunderbolt 4 dock is $40 more expensive than this one.

  • All those 9's are annoying! Nines are a marketing mind trick. I don't think they work anymore because everyone knows about it and it makes you look sleazy. But, I could be wrong, many are perhaps still fooled by it.

    • Remember everyone don't know about it, new player enter the game everyday https://xkcd.com/1053/ [xkcd.com] .

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      All those 9's are annoying! Nines are a marketing mind trick. I don't think they work anymore because everyone knows about it and it makes you look sleazy. But, I could be wrong, many are perhaps still fooled by it.

      Except stores still do stupid searches. Looking for items under $10? They all use a filter of "price < 10" in their searches, which mean a $10 item will not be found by the search. However, a $9.99 item WILL show up. That's why the practice still continues. Of course, back in the 19th century,

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        One the flip side, the $10.00 may stand out from the crowd, generating sales that way. "We're straightforward people, none of that '99' gimmick".

  • Nice headline. My mind went from "A $300 Surface tablet might be a nice entry-level iPad competitor" to "Oh, it's just an overpriced dock" in like a millisecond.

    • I was confused on the news too as this doesn't sound like anything to get excited about. Then I realized that the "real news" is that Surface tablets are getting USB-C ports that are Thunderbolt capable. Or at least that's how I interpreted this news.

    • yeah a $300 tablet is exciting. A $300 dock is a head scratcher

      • It's really not. Basically any capable dock with Thunderbolt 4 is more expensive than this. It's like saying a Ferrari is a headscratcher. Yeah if you spend all day driving in a school zone you don't need a car that does >350km/h But there are use cases for it.

        Docks are expensive, largely because they are damn capable as well.

    • Oh, it's just an overpriced dock

      Citation needed. What Thunderbolt 4 dock is cheaper? Someone already mentioned Lenovo but it turns out their cheapest Thunderbolt 4 dock is $40 more expensive. Dell's cheapest Thunderbolt 4 dock is $65 more expensive. HP's is $30 more expensive.

      • Citation needed. What Thunderbolt 4 dock is cheaper?

        Well, I mean overpriced in the sense of things like those fancy automatic vinyl record washing machines. As in, there's probably a use case for it for people who have that kind of budget and a specific need for such a device, but it's not something I'd ever consider buying.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Entrope ( 68843 )

        From a quick search on Amazon: Dell ($230), Kensington ($260), Anker ($180 but a "mini" TB4 dock), CalDigit ($230) and Satechi ($245) all have cheaper TB4 docks from brand names I would consider. Other respectable brands match the $299 price point.

    • yup, that was the first thing that came to mind for me, that this is a dock for $300 bucks whew

  • Almost every dock I'm familiar with just adds some USB ports and a display output or two. MAYBE there's an extra Thunderbolt port. Unless this thing has 10GbE and a couple m.2 or 2.5" drive slots, I can't see how it would be worth $300 vs any number of vastly cheaper options.

    • I can't see how it would be worth $300 vs any number of vastly cheaper options.

      There's basically no Thunderbolt 4 docks on the market that are under $300. In fact if you compare with Lenovo, Dell, and HP this one here from MS is actually the cheapest. If you don't want Thunderbolt 4 you can get cheaper from Microsoft too.

      It doesn't just add USB. It also has 2.5Gig-E ethernet, audio, and unlike cheap docks on the market the display connectors are not complete buckets of shit. I've never used a sub $300 dock and been happy with them and I'm glad my work stopped providing us with cheap s

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by kriston ( 7886 )

        Are the graphics port DisplayLink or real graphics?

        DisplayLink is basically MPEG-encoded video. You don't want to use DisplayLink when playing videogames.

  • Just about all thunderbolt and USB-C docks suck and they're priced similarly. If Microsoft's didn't suck, it would cost 200 bucks more.

  • For the cost of a Lenovo notebook (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Gabest ( 852807 ) on Tuesday April 04, 2023 @01:04PM (#63425374)

    With enough ports that you don't even need a dock.

  • I just spent all morning diagnosing Microsoft trash software and its massive defects (Teams' back to back bad patches, One Drive just stopping upload because some filetype made it scared or something, etc) and yesterday I spent all day doing 3 tickets for various brands of docks that were malfunctioning, cutting monitors in and out, etc

    In related news, Microsoft just announced they're making a dock! HOW EXCITING. I'll take 100.
    • They have control of the Surface docks and the laptops thereof and there are still problems, so yeah, probably giving it a miss would be a good move. Strangely enough, the issue with MSFT laptops and tablets essentially is the BIOS/firmware, which rarely works the way you'd expect it to. My old Surface Laptop 3 runs Ubuntu in not bad form after going through the pain of getting it on there. Try that trick with a raw Windows 10/11 install...they have special images for their Surface devices because they w
      • General release OS DOES work on surface devices. Companies are required to provide restore images for their devices. Its almost like you have NO Idea what youre even talking about.

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by HBI ( 10338492 )
          No, it doesn't, just did this a few weeks ago. All documentation points to the restore images. Give it a shot, you'll end up with an unresponsive box...uh, laptop. Ubuntu does work, but getting it to boot up Ubuntu is not entirely obvious. Same was true for a Surface Laptop 2 I was doing at the same time. I ended up with a restore image version of 10 on that one after the general release OS didn't work. Sounds like you are bullshitting people.
          • I have done it. Many times. Just DL the ISO from literally ANY location. MSDN, random torrent, Windows Media Creator, put it on a USB and it installs fine. Its literally how I have created my own images for my Surface Pro 2, 4 5 6 and now 8. Also Laptop 1 and 2. So please continue spreading blatantly false info. Not sure HOW you manage to screw up something as easy as installing Windows, but WOW.

    • I'm not touching this not because of the price but because it's MS hardware.

      At work, MS surface laptops are flacky at best.

      At home, a simple MS Keyboard needs F'n drivers to be downloaded!?!? Are you kidding me?
      They own the OS and can't embed their own exotic keyboard drivers in the OS!?!

      • Yeah, not a fan of the Surface line, or docks in general. Nice when they work, but a PIA when they don't. Staying away from this.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by kriston ( 7886 )

          I don't have any problems with the Surface line. I own a couple of Surface Pros and my wife and kid have Surface Laptops.

          Story time: When I visited my local COVID-19 vaccination center, I was struck by the fact that every single desk (out of about 200) had a Surface Pro on it, and there was no electrical or network wiring throughout the site as you'd expect.

          There was one little miniature rack with all the networking and WiFi equipment in it to serve the whole facility.

          That they used Surface Pro told me it

  • At that price it better let you park a yacht next it.

    • It's not out of line [microcenter.com] with other options [microcenter.com].

      Docks that have a single cable for multi-display, charging, ethernet, USB-A, and USB-C run about that price. Cheaper options exist [microcenter.com], of course, but most notably, they have to send video signal over USB-C, rather than a native display connector, meaning that you don't get GPU acceleration...and in the case of USB 2.0 [siig.com], you end up with weird shims like DisplayLink that makes even 60fps impossible.

      So, is it expensive? Yes. Is it in line with Dell, HP, and Lenovo? Also yes.

      • I didn't see video ports on this new surface dock, though, which makes it more in line with cheapo USB-C docks unless I missed something. Are more monitors going USB native?
        • Yes, Thunderbolt monitors are a thing. But still, MS should at least put an HDMI port on this

          • First thing, HDMI needs to die. Maybe it was a nice spec and connector at one time but since then we got USB-C and DisplayPort. About the only nice thing about HDMI is it "bridges" the old DVI to the newer DisplayPort. A DisplayPort output with the "DP++" logo means a passive cable will allow it to plug into HDMI. I don't have HDMI displays, unless "display" includes my TV sets, but I do (or at least did, I haven't really thought about it lately) have to deal with DVI displays. With a cheap DP-to-HDMI

  • Look at all the people that don't know what thunderbolt is and didn't spend 10 seconds googling it.

    The title summary calling a thunderbolt port a usb-c port: extra classy mods. Don't worry about those pesky details on a tech website.

    Is it a full moon or something?

  • I guess the Surface Connect port is officially dead. It was rumored to support external PCIe and eSATA but ended up only being used for the $60 AC adapter and a docking station that was obsolete the moment it was introduced.

    Fun fact about that $60 adapter: it has a 1A USB-A charging port that, for whatever reason, can't be used for data.

  • Assuming all the USB C ports carry thunderbolt, this is simply a way of turning a single USB C/Thunderbolt port into two.

    For all other uses, it is simply a pedestrian superspeed USB hub, the sort that cost about 20 bucks or so.

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