Hundreds of Freelancers Hired to Perform Online 'Catfishing on an Industrial Scale' (arstechnica.com) 52
Wired reports on "hundreds of freelancers employed all over the world to animate fake profiles and chat with people who have signed up for dating and hookup sites." They describe one worker at Cyprus-based vDesk as "expected to lure people into paying, message by message, for conversations with fictional characters."
WIRED spoke to dozens of people working in the industry, people who had worked for months at a time at two of the companies involved in the creation of virtual profiles... Often recruited into "customer support" or content moderation roles, they found themselves playing roles in sophisticated operations set up to tease subscription money from lonely hearts looking for connections online... Freelancers working in the industry say they make a fraction of the money users are paying. Workers earn around 7 cents per message, or 2 euro an hour.
WIRED shares stories from a "freelance customer support representative" in Ireland and a "freelance remote translator" in Mexico who both ended up doing the same kind of work. (And ironically, both reported they ended up talking to people they knew in real-life...) For the worker in Mexico, "his chat history had all of his personal details: his name, city, job, past marriages. His kids' names and ages. For nearly two years, he had been talking to a virtual. He says he's in love with her."
The portals "usually include lengthy terms and conditions," the article points out, with most saying something like "we may use system profiles at our discretion to communicate with users to enhance our users' entertainment experience..." Once she got over the realization — on her first day working for the company — that translating really meant "flirting through fake profiles," she couldn't help but be impressed by how detailed the virtuals are. "The fakes don't seem like obviously unattainable women, they are eerily convincing and hyper-specific," she says... The sites collect detailed information about users, building profiles that help the freelancers maintain the fiction. These contain their living arrangements, details about their family and marital status ("single after two failed marriages," one read), and other personal details. "It will add their kids' names and ages, when they tell us them," Alice says, "if they have been to therapy recently, what they have been feeling — anything which can be used by the virtual to keep a sense of real connection..."
If the user asks to move off to a free messaging app, the freelancers must write through the virtuals "I prefer to stay in here until I know you better" or "I feel safer on this app until we are better acquainted," and so on...
One morning, Alice opened her chat to a new message:
"Please stop talking to my husband, he is spending money we do not have to talk to you," read the chat line.
The workers don't even know the source of their profile pictures, Wired points out. "A reverse-image search on some of the images seen by WIRED show that at least some are grabbed from pornography sites."
WIRED shares stories from a "freelance customer support representative" in Ireland and a "freelance remote translator" in Mexico who both ended up doing the same kind of work. (And ironically, both reported they ended up talking to people they knew in real-life...) For the worker in Mexico, "his chat history had all of his personal details: his name, city, job, past marriages. His kids' names and ages. For nearly two years, he had been talking to a virtual. He says he's in love with her."
The portals "usually include lengthy terms and conditions," the article points out, with most saying something like "we may use system profiles at our discretion to communicate with users to enhance our users' entertainment experience..." Once she got over the realization — on her first day working for the company — that translating really meant "flirting through fake profiles," she couldn't help but be impressed by how detailed the virtuals are. "The fakes don't seem like obviously unattainable women, they are eerily convincing and hyper-specific," she says... The sites collect detailed information about users, building profiles that help the freelancers maintain the fiction. These contain their living arrangements, details about their family and marital status ("single after two failed marriages," one read), and other personal details. "It will add their kids' names and ages, when they tell us them," Alice says, "if they have been to therapy recently, what they have been feeling — anything which can be used by the virtual to keep a sense of real connection..."
If the user asks to move off to a free messaging app, the freelancers must write through the virtuals "I prefer to stay in here until I know you better" or "I feel safer on this app until we are better acquainted," and so on...
One morning, Alice opened her chat to a new message:
"Please stop talking to my husband, he is spending money we do not have to talk to you," read the chat line.
The workers don't even know the source of their profile pictures, Wired points out. "A reverse-image search on some of the images seen by WIRED show that at least some are grabbed from pornography sites."
I moved to a random city and used plentyoffish to (Score:5, Insightful)
I moved to a random city and used plentyoffish (old age alert) to meet new people. At least 60% of the replies came from professional flirters. Seemed like we connected and had things in common, but then would always flake out on meeting. Learned about professional responders to help make a site seem more popular than others. Immediately stopped using dating sites in that city.
Moved to a new, more populous city, and looked again. And again met a professional flirter. What is hilarious about this one is that I actually met the flirter independently of the website. Was part of a hobby group and ran into a woman who seemed interesting. We hit it off to the point where we left our group to go on our minidate. Got to talking about our professions and when she said hers I used one of my favorite canned lines. After I said that there was an awkward pause as we realized we had both met on this dating site (I used a very similar line in the back and forth chats) and how she had passively refused any sort of meeting with me. She excused herself to go to the bathroom, I let her know I wouldn't be around when she came back. We mutually went our own separate ways.
They exist and they don't care about you. Don't use dating sites, introverts won't leave the house. Just talk to people at supermarkets, coffeeshops, walking down the street etc.
Re:I moved to a random city and used plentyoffish (Score:5, Insightful)
>Just talk to people at supermarkets, coffeeshops, walking down the street etc.
Partially good advice. You can't go 'on the hunt' like that, people don't enjoy being stalked while they're going about their daily business. Just be open to opportunities and put yourself in positions where they're more likely. And as a general rule, don't hit on the staff - they're cornered since they can't leave and if they're rude to you they might get canned.
If you're really looking to date... ask friends and family to set you up. A bad date is just a bad date, it's not the end of the world, just be classy in how you handle it, always remembering the other person may feel exactly the same way about you. It's not personal, you didn't know each other before you met, that's what the first date is for.
You're unlikely to meet the perfect person on the first date no matter how it happens. There's no shame in being single, and there's no shame in no longer wanting to be single. It's OK to tell people you're looking and wouldn't mind a suggestion or a fix-up.
If you're looking for an easy way to bypass all that... prostitutes are your best but most expensive and likely least legal practical option.
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Isn't a real relationship with a woman more expensive than paying a prostitute?
I think there's a old Norm Macdonald joke that goes something like this...
Norm: Why is it that whenever we go out it ends up costing me hundreds of dollars?
Woman: Because I'm a prostitute.
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Ideally a real relationship gives you more than just sex, such as emotional support and genuine care.
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such as emotional support and genuine care.
So he should get a dog?
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You always pay, just the currency varies.
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You can't go 'on the hunt' like that, people don't enjoy being stalked
OK, killer. No one said anything about stalking. You can make a comment to a person and if they respond then you can have a, you know, conversation. Amazing how social interactions work. If you find yourself stalking people, maybe you should reconsider your social skills
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No one said anything about stalking, but typically when you tell people to go looking for dates at grocery stores and coffee shops... they think about going there for dates and not merely the possibility of dates.
Plenty of guys get too aggressive hitting on women who just want to be left alone, it's not a bad idea to remind people of that.
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You can make a comment to a person and if they respond then you can have a, you know, conversation.
Only if you consider being told to fuck off as a conversation. OK, if they are polite they will just walk away without saying anything. I know, I've tried it.
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If you're looking for an easy way to bypass all that... prostitutes are your best but most expensive and likely least legal practical option.
If you (not unrealistically) calculate spending about half of your income on a long-term relationship, then the "price per intercourse" is much much cheaper when arranged via prostitution - even if your preferences are expensive.
Whether paying for sex officially, outside of a longer term relationship or marriage, is legal, does of course depend on where you live. Where I live, prostitution is a (regulated, taxed) legal profession. If it is not legal where you live, you can still resort to the "Sugar Daddy
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If "having children" is not your wish, but your partner's precondition for a long-term relationship, then you can easily spend m
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If you (not unrealistically) calculate spending about half of your income on a long-term relationship, then the "price per intercourse" is much much cheaper when arranged via prostitution - even if your preferences are expensive.
That is so shitty in so many ways.
First, the assumption that men spend their income to catch (and keep) a woman. Please take a look outside. See these carriages without horses? Yepp, it's not the 16th century anymore.
Second, the assumption that marriage means not having much sex. Possibly true for some, but shouldn't be assumed to be true. If we take a moderate 3-4 times a week, with at least one or two lasting a while, then - well I don't know the prices for whores in your location but I doubt that the mat
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First, the assumption that men spend their income to catch (and keep) a woman. Please take a look outside. See these carriages without horses? Yepp, it's not the 16th century anymore.
So you are saying that the entire cat-fishing industry is a futile business model? If you look outside more closely, you will find that sadly, many men spend lots of money on even the faintest straws to "catch" a woman.
Second, the assumption that marriage means not having much sex. Possibly true for some, but shouldn't be assumed to be true.
If you look at studies that include longer-term married people (especially ones with at least one child), the frequencies are surprisingly low.
Third, the assumption that intercourse is the only thing that matters.
Of course, if you are interested in other aspects of long-term relationships, you may come to entirely different conclusions regarding their costs. Bu
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So you are saying that the entire cat-fishing industry is a futile business model?
No. I'm saying it is build on an outdated assumption. Doesn't mean it can't work as a business model. Heck, the catholic church doesn't just still exist, it's still one of the largest businesses in the world and the only reason it's not in the Fortune 500 is cultural.
If you look at studies that include longer-term married people (especially ones with at least one child), the frequencies are surprisingly low.
and
But given that prostitution does not offer much beyond intercourse, and yet it is a huge business, certainly tells you that many are prepared to pay for that one thing alone.
Totally. Both marriage and prostitution are things that sell a fantasy more than a reality. In this they are similar. I just don't want to look at the sorry state of the human race all the time. All these things COULD be much better than the
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Put a marble in a jar every time you have sex with your girlfriend. Once you marry her, after your first year of marriage, take a marble out of the jar each time you have sex. Chances are, you won't empty that jar in your lifetime.
What the proverb leaves out is that as you get older, sex becomes less important though. A marriage is about a lot more than sex, and the most important thing about marriage in my opinion is supporting each other through tough times, celebrating good times, and having a best frien
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Put a marble in a jar every time you have sex with your girlfriend. Once you marry her, after your first year of marriage, take a marble out of the jar each time you have sex. Chances are, you won't empty that jar in your lifetime.
I don't have to guess. I was married, and that jar would've been emptied several times over.
What the proverb leaves out is that as you get older, sex becomes less important though. A marriage is about a lot more than sex, and the most important thing about marriage in my opinion is supporting each other through tough times, celebrating good times, and having a best friend you can explore the world with.
I totally agree with that.
I disagree with the conclusion.
I think what happens here is that your estimates are thrown off by the simple fact that when you're in the "girlfriend" phase, you see each other once or twice a week and have sex most of those times. When you're in the "married" stage, you live together and see each other most days, and you don't have sex every time. So our tiny animal brain does its stupid mo
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If you (not unrealistically) calculate spending about half of your income on a long-term relationship...
...what? Can you give a breakdown of the sorts of things you expect to spend on a relationship? Does that include the mortgage payment for your future family home? I can't imagine a way that I could reasonably spend half of my income by any measure (gross, net, after savings, whatever) on a relationship. It simply isn't that expensive. I will acknowledge that I am neither financially nor demographically a "sugar daddy"... so maybe that's why I'm surprised by your figure.
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Can you give a breakdown of the sorts of things you expect to spend on a relationship?
Just look at alimony payments after divorces. Usually, while a marriage is not divorced, people are inclined to spend significantly more than that voluntarily for their partner's benefit.
Does that include the mortgage payment for your future family home?
Depends on whether you acquire a "future family home" because you actually want one, or whether your expenses for a "future family home" are made only to meet a demand from you partner's side.
Re:I moved to a random city and used plentyoffish (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're really looking to date... ask friends and family to set you up. ......You're unlikely to meet the perfect person on the first date no matter how it happens.
Perhaps you missed the part where the OP said he had moved to a different city - so what friends and family?
Anyway, as you say, you are unlikely to find the perfect person on the first date, so how big a supply of potential dates are your friends and family likely to have, and how willing are they to keep setting up new dates for you? They are not professional matchmakers.
Moreover, for example if you are male your friends are also mostly or entirely male (because that's the problem in the first place), why would they want to hand girls over to you? They probably have the same problem themselves, because this is a predominantly male circle you are all in.
Re:I moved to a random city and used plentyoffish (Score:4, Interesting)
Not every male is automatically interested in any female around, that is quite a demeaning view of life you paint.
I don't understand where you are coming from. That was the very point I was making when I said to the OP "as you say, you are unlikely to find the perfect person on the first date". I nearly added "nor the second date, nor the third, .....".
don't forget people have siblings/relatives.
Not everyone has siblings, or relatives nearby. I don't.
it was quite shocking to read: "hand girls over to you"? I do hope you don't actually maintain such a bitter view of what romance is about.
I deliberately used that phraseology because it seemed to me to reflect what the OP was recommending, which I did not like either.
.....". Seems I was never in any of those very unusual circumstances.
Anyway, the method by which you meet someone has nothing to do with how romance develops. I know a happily married couple who met by his being a client to her being a prostitute at the time. I met girls through a dating agency (not internet based) which put people in touch with each other. I have heard others say that, and internet dating, are disgusting. However, on those first dates the agency and how it works may have been a topic of conversation for a minute or two but after that we were just two people who might have met each other in any other way, and what happened after that depended on personalities.
I met about 25 girls through the dating agency before the one I happily married - all the previous ones were incompatible in some way. There is no way that any friends or relations could or would have made introductions to 25 girls for me - and bear in mind the previous 24 had already been recommended by the agency as meeting my criteria (and I theirs), for example they were single and lived within a 50 mile radius; but a girl you meet in a singles bar or on holiday in Benidorm might not be, and not tell you either.
I never met any girls outside dating agencies of some sort. It is a mystery to me how most couples meet each other : if asked they always say something that begins like "It was in very unusual circumstances
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I didn't RTFA either, but I think it is about romance scammers [youtube.com], not really the usual flaky Tinder matches.
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Yeah, and that's been going on since phone 'dating lines' back at the dawn of time.
When there is a way to get lonely people to waste their money, there's scum to build a business around it.
So are they going to be replaced by AI? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because that is the obvious question to ask here, right?
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Because that is the obvious question to ask here, right?
I'm guessing some conversations with AI/ChatGPT may actually be more interesting than with some dates ...
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Sure, at least OpenAI's chatbot is very friendly and pleasant to talk to and also likes role playing.
At $20/month it's a bargain...
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Because that is the obvious question to ask here, right?
Oh you're so funny! [giggle] Why do you think AI will take over? I don't know much about AI but I just love hearing you talk about it. [puts both hands on arm & stares longingly into eyes]
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Some people are just stupid and immature. Thanks for reminding me.
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Re:Exploitation (Score:4, Informative)
The world would generally be a better place if people were to mind their own business. If you're concerned about the world going to hell, people will learn from good example. Anyone who's only excuse for not doing something wrong is that the law requires them not to isn't a particularly good person.
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Is either an unwilling participant who has been coerced in some way?
Not coerced, but swindled. People don't sign up to dating sites in order to chat with professionals. The product delivered is not the product advertised.
No one would claim my grocer and I are mutually abusing each other when I buy eggs
No, but if it turns out he's selling you empty eggshells, you'd complain. That's what's happening here.
Pay-per-Influence? (Score:1)
This right here takes the prize for dumbest thing I've ever heard I do believe.
Not Me (Score:2, Funny)
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They're Butters at Raisins [youtube.com]. Pretty sure that was the joke.
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but she says that until we know each other better she prefers me to keep coming there.
Hooter's pan fried catfish can't be beat.
AI will make this entertaning (Score:3)
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Check out this quick google search. [google.com] Plenty of apps are already out there to do just that.
The more tech advances, the more luddites it will breed.
Don't see a list of site names (Score:1)
Journalism fails to provide important deets.
They'll all be replaced by AI (Score:2)
It can do it on an industrial scale and not this hobby version.
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