Dell In Hot Water For Making Shoppers Think Overpriced Monitors Were Discounted (arstechnica.com) 70
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Dell Technologies' Australia subsidiary misled online shoppers into thinking that adding a monitor to their purchase would get them a discount on the display, even though doing so sometimes resulted in customers paying a higher price for the monitor than if they had bought it on its own. That's according to a declaration by the Australian Federal Court on Monday. The deceptive practices happened on Dell's Australian website, but they serve as a reminder to shoppers everywhere that a strikethrough line or sale stamp on an online retailer doesn't always mean you're getting a bargain. On June 5, the Federal Court said Dell Australia was guilty of making "false or misleading representations with respect to the price" of monitors that its website encouraged shoppers to add to their purchase. The purchases were made from August 2019 to the middle of December 2021.
The website would display the add-on price alongside a higher price that had a strikethrough line, suggesting that the monitor was typically sold at the price with the line going through it but that customers would get a discount if they added it to their cart at purchase. (The Australian Competition & Consumer Commission, or ACCC, posted a screenshot example here.) However, the strikethrough prices weren't actually representative of what Dell was charging for the monitors for most of the time before the purported discount. In fact, the allegedly discounted price occasionally turned out to be a rip-off, as ACCC commission Liza Carver said in a statement today: "In some cases, consumers paid more for the add-on monitor advertised as 'discounted' than they would have paid if they had bought it as a stand-alone product, which is shocking."
The Australian Federal Court also found that Dell's Australian website used deceptive language, like "Includes x% off," "Total Savings" plus a dollar amount, "Discounted Price" and a dollar amount, and "Get the best price for popular accessories when purchased with this product." According to the ACCC, shoppers spent over $2 million Australian dollars ($1.33 million USD) on 5,300 add-on monitors during this time period. The Australian Federal Court ordered Dell Australia to give full or partial refunds to affected customers. The company must also hire an "independent compliance professional" and contact affected customers. The Australian Federal Court will take comment on further penalties Dell Australia should incur, which could include fines, at a future date. Dell told The Register: "As we acknowledged in November 2022 when the ACCC commenced these proceedings, due to an unrectified error on our part, our web page misrepresented the level of savings consumers could achieve by purchasing a monitor in conjunction with a desktop, laptop, or notebook."
Dell is looking into refunding customers, "plus interest," Dell's statement to The Register added, and the company is "taking steps to improve our pricing processes to ensure this sort of error does not happen again."
The website would display the add-on price alongside a higher price that had a strikethrough line, suggesting that the monitor was typically sold at the price with the line going through it but that customers would get a discount if they added it to their cart at purchase. (The Australian Competition & Consumer Commission, or ACCC, posted a screenshot example here.) However, the strikethrough prices weren't actually representative of what Dell was charging for the monitors for most of the time before the purported discount. In fact, the allegedly discounted price occasionally turned out to be a rip-off, as ACCC commission Liza Carver said in a statement today: "In some cases, consumers paid more for the add-on monitor advertised as 'discounted' than they would have paid if they had bought it as a stand-alone product, which is shocking."
The Australian Federal Court also found that Dell's Australian website used deceptive language, like "Includes x% off," "Total Savings" plus a dollar amount, "Discounted Price" and a dollar amount, and "Get the best price for popular accessories when purchased with this product." According to the ACCC, shoppers spent over $2 million Australian dollars ($1.33 million USD) on 5,300 add-on monitors during this time period. The Australian Federal Court ordered Dell Australia to give full or partial refunds to affected customers. The company must also hire an "independent compliance professional" and contact affected customers. The Australian Federal Court will take comment on further penalties Dell Australia should incur, which could include fines, at a future date. Dell told The Register: "As we acknowledged in November 2022 when the ACCC commenced these proceedings, due to an unrectified error on our part, our web page misrepresented the level of savings consumers could achieve by purchasing a monitor in conjunction with a desktop, laptop, or notebook."
Dell is looking into refunding customers, "plus interest," Dell's statement to The Register added, and the company is "taking steps to improve our pricing processes to ensure this sort of error does not happen again."
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Fuck 'em. Enough with these fake sale prices and markups.
Welcome to capitalism.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Fuck 'em. Enough with these fake sale prices and markups.
Welcome to capitalism.
Capitalism couldn't command a 25% premium above an already inflated MSRP. That took the insanity of a post-COVID world where every vendor is drunk on Supreme margins of artificial scarcity.
Give it another three years, and we'll be talking about 2019 capitalism as if it was a fucking charity.
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Welcome to capitalism.
Re: Good (Score:3)
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As Freischutz pointed out:
Welcome to capitalism.
Ironically, also known as the end goal for anyone and everyone who has had to endure what the alternatives can and have delivered.
For all its faults, capitalism must still be pretty damn good by comparison to be this popular.
Since when is capitalism about swindling people? In the utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society nobody does that out of enlightened self interest because people generally only like to do business with the trustworthy. The criticism is not that capitalism doesn't work, the criticism is that the pure, unregulated capitalist utopia does not account for stupidity and greed and that therefore capitalism cannot work without somebody to smack down the greedy, the stupid and the greedy and stupid (they usuall
Re:Good (Score:4, Insightful)
Ah the old utility maximizing rational agent. A model of human behavior that nobody outside of a fringe of economists actually thinks describes how human actually behave, or companies. The fact that humans DO behave irrationally has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with that is fundamentally what we are as a species. And companies behave irrationally too. The market is completely incapable of protecting against that, its not magical. It needs regulations.
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The fact that humans DO behave irrationally has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with that is fundamentally what we are as a species. And companies behave irrationally too.
(*) Humans doing irrational things affects economics because humans (usually motivated by greed) sometimes engage in irrational and stupid economic activities. Any economic theory/model that fails to account for human greed motivated irrationality and incompetence is worthless.
The market is completely incapable of protecting against that, its not magical. It needs regulations.
That's what I said. The unregulated capitalist utopia is unobtainable because of (*).
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Capitalism requires perfect knowledge, you need to what someone else is offering. However that does not and cannot happen in the real world, companies like Dell take advantage of that, and the more wealth they get the more they can take advantage of it.
To me some CEO needs to go to jail for this, its the only way it will stop, a fine is not enough, it will just be a cost of business.
And in practice capitalism is all about greed, and swindling people, getting as much out of everybody as you can, and assuming
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Since when is capitalism about swindling people?
Since the "utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society" stopped existing.
In other words, it's always been this way and to pretend it hasn't is either spectacularly ignorant or willfully stupid. Or both.
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Since when is capitalism about swindling people?
Since the "utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society" stopped existing.
In other words, it's always been this way and to pretend it hasn't is either spectacularly ignorant or willfully stupid. Or both.
Stopped existing??? Not in the real world it hasn't. A "utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society" has ever existed anywhere other in the imagination of somebody writing a book about it. They tend not to survive contact with reality.
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You're making my point for me.
Because as you said;
A "utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society" has never existed anywhere other in the imagination of somebody writing a book about it
Therefore, swindling people has been a part of EVERY capitalist society. It's just becoming more open and brazen now.
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Swindling people has been part of every society, regardless of economic model. There is no economic model that reduces the number of crooks!
All economic models require regulation and law enforcement.
Of course, all governments and law enforcement agencies are equally saturated by crooks, hence the need for accountability.
No such system will ever be perfect, because there is no way to eliminate evil from the gene pool.
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You're making my point for me.
Because as you said;
A "utopian, unregulated, pure capitalist society" has never existed anywhere other in the imagination of somebody writing a book about it
Therefore, swindling people has been a part of EVERY capitalist society. It's just becoming more open and brazen now.
Swindling stupid people is older than P.T. Barnum who would be a trillionaire today.
Swindling the indoctrinated masses out of a college education leaving the Gig Generation begging for a refund is where we're at today, in case you still assumed some1950's version of swindling is what taxpayers are enduring today. Too Big To Fail would have been strung up with a horse thief and executed 200 years ago. We reward that fucking shit today. Learn to Vote Better.
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Swindling people has been part of every society, regardless of economic model.
This is true.
Re: Good (Score:2)
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No, regulated capitalism works. What's broken is unregulated anything-goes capitalism. Greed makes good people do bad things, and bad people do bad things. Assuming that business can be self regulating and greed takes care of this does not work, and history has proven this.
Now riding a wild mustang is great - but do not attempt this until the mustang is tamed and you've got a saddle and stirrups or else you will hurt yourself. No matter now magnificent the picture of the wild mustang is, it is still a w
Re: Good (Score:1)
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Fuck 'em. Enough with these fake sale prices and markups.
Welcome to capitalism.
Capitalism couldn't command a 25% premium above an already inflated MSRP. That took the insanity of a post-COVID world where every vendor is drunk on Supreme margins of artificial scarcity.
Give it another three years, and we'll be talking about 2019 capitalism as if it was a fucking charity.
Capitalism is anything you can get away with. However, most normal capitalists find that they can only get away with so much before destroying their reputation. This is an important lesson because reputation means something, even to capitalists, since most business transactions require a certain degree of trust. People trusted that Dell would not be dumb enough to wreck their reputation with stupid shit like this, Dell got caught. While I feel empathy for the people who got swindled (rather than labelling t
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I'm not crying any rivers over Dell's reputation suffering damage from the consequences of Dell's own stupidity. Hopefully this will be a learning experience for Dell.
You also shouldn't assume that this was even an error on the part of the company, since the tactic of lobbying for penalties to make various profitable deceptions worth it is becoming more and more infectious.
I'll believe Dell was or is stupid when the penalties actually exceed the benefits. Until then, the actual stupidity becomes obvious as this behavior becomes more and more tolerated.
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I read every post before yours and no one called the end users stupid.
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That's not what you replied to, dickface.
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That's not what you replied to, dickface.
I never limited the scope of my statement to the post I was replying to ... oh, toilet mouthed one.
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Capitalism is anything you can get away with.
No, troll, that is not what "capitalism" means and that is not some special "net effect" that is unique to capitalism.
Capitalism is an economic model in which private citizens are allowed to own the means of production. That's it.
The upthread references to "utopian unregulated" capitalism are stupid. No educated economist believes that capitalism (nor ANY economic model) can function without governmental regulation. There ARE problems arising from too much reg
Re: (Score:2)
Capitalism is anything you can get away with.
No, troll, that is not what "capitalism" means and that is not some special "net effect" that is unique to capitalism.
Capitalism is an economic model in which private citizens are allowed to own the means of production. That's it.
The upthread references to "utopian unregulated" capitalism are stupid. No educated economist believes that capitalism (nor ANY economic model) can function without governmental regulation. There ARE problems arising from too much regulation or outright harmful regulation, so there is a need for perpetual adaptation and re-balancing of such regulation, but the regulation is needed and only the ill-educated (or politically motivated) say otherwise.
All of this just goes to my point, but 'educated economists' don't run the world no do they? What matters most is the beliefs of the people that do run the world, not what economists think. There are many people, in the US congress for example, that believe passionately that unrestrained capitalism functioning in a completely non-regulated and non-political market where government has effectively been mostly eliminated is a viable goal and many of their voters believe in this awesome vision too which is why
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One can find thousands of other instances of this on Amazon, or any retail establishment. Dell is not unique in deceptive signage.
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Greed and dishonesty are human vices; they exist independently of capitalism and manifest just as much under any other economic model.
Is lenovo next? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is lenovo next? they pull some of the same crap.
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Crap, we just switched from Dell to Lenovo because of Dell crap like this. And the fact they constantly would ship my servers to the wrong address.
Re:Overpriced? (Score:5, Informative)
If it were impossible, how do these laws exist?
https://www.justia.com/consume... [justia.com]
https://ised-isde.canada.ca/si... [canada.ca]
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Because people where fooled, its pretty obvious. Fraud happens, people lie, people are deceived. Everyone can be deceived. Sure there are some sociopaths that may think that no matter what they do or say if they get the person to agree to be ripped off its OK. I would hope most of society is not alright with that.
Re:Overpriced? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Overpriced"? If it was really "overpriced" no one would buy it. It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. And... it's impossible to pass laws to protect people from their own stupidity. All it does is take away the possibility of it being a learning experience.
Nice fantasy. It's easy to pour scorn on people who aren't experts in what you are an expert in, like computer hardware, and call them stupid. Would you be able to price a 11th century Byzantine icon of Christ Pantokrator at a glance and tell if it was genuine or fake? ... No? ... Not your field of expertise? ... though luck then because by your logic that makes you a stupid idiot. You can't expect people to be experts in everything. Lots of people aren't experts on what a fair price for a monitor is becaus
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with most of what you say, apart from:
Most people just assume that a large business like Dell would not be galactically stupid enough to endanger their reputation by pulling cheap scams like this one
I see this happening all the time from large companies, I go to the supermarket and seen items that are on sale for years with the price steadily going up, or seen items saying massive discount but looking at the original price and its 1cent of. I go to shops with 50% sales but the original price is just so high that its still expensive. This is to the point that when a sales person tells me this, I say to them just stop lying, and when I do they agree with me.
I
It was a negative discount ... (Score:5, Funny)
what is so hard to understand ?
dude your getting an good refund due our law! (Score:2)
dude your getting an good refund due our law!
Error? (Score:3)
Jacking up the price and then giving a 'discount' was no error.
Standard practice in the EU (Score:5, Insightful)
I know Americans (and now apparently no longer Australians) laugh at the communist like regulatory enforcements that fair compete laws and consumer protection laws impose on EU business (and business trying to sell their stuff in EU, as many a tech giant has found out over the years).
But in the end, the little guy actually can rely on the fact that he doesn't HAVE to get 3 competing offers, or validate every single word of a waiver. Because the law actually protects the consumers from deceptive behavior of business.
I'm willing to say out loud that I'm all for consumer protection and fairness in marketing. I think it provides trust in the business you are dealing with, and makes for a much more positive experience as a consumer. And it makes me more willing to spend my money, because I'm not afraid that I will get screwed by the company I'm dealing with.
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It's always funny to hear that people think those protections are "communist". The UK is a fairly right wing country. Haven't had a left of centre government since the 70s. Yet we have fairly strong protections, and even the loony brexiteers aren't proposing to do away with them just yet.
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> communist like regulatory enforcements
You don't need to put on your Stalin Fan Club hat to support punishing fraud.
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It's pretty standard for prosecutions like this to happen in Australia as well. They've gone after department stores fore jacking up prices right before offering "discounts", too. The EU isn't unique in actually enforcing consumer protection laws.
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The problem is, TINSTAAFL.
The consumer protection laws in the EU and Australia are really strong, which is a good thing. But they don't come for free - everyone sees it as an increase in prices. It's why if something costs $500 US, you can expect it to cost UKP400 or EU500, despite premiums of around 40% for UKP and 20% for EU.
It's one of the things that will be endlessly debated until everyone is blue in the face because there will be people who want cheaper prices even if it means having to do more work,
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They're all the same (Score:4, Insightful)
Every major PC manufacturer pulls shady shit, Dell being one of the greatest offenders. If you're in the market for a home computer find someone that can build a custom rig for you. You get to choose the parts and the specs, it will last much longer, and upgrades will be much simpler for years to come. It may cost you a little more but in the long run you'll be better off. I charge everyone $75 to spec out the parts, supply a parts list that they purchase, and when the parts come in I build the system, install the OS and software, and register warranties for them. It takes me about an hour to spec the parts and then another 2 hours to build the system. Yeah, for $75 I'm not getting rich, but I get to keep current with PC hardware, trends, and OS installations. I build anywhere from 10 to 25 computers per year through word of mouth and I have never had a complaint. There's plenty of people like me in your area. Just ask around.
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Don't forget supports and repairs are better from local people.
Worked at a restaurant w/ similar pricing (Score:2)
My first job was cashier at a certain fast food restaurant that has changed names since then.
They often had "combos" that cost more than the sum of their parts. It didn't even make the order easier to enter, you entered the items individually then grouped them to get the adder to apply (or discount in those cases where they were less than the sum of the parts). It was basically a tax on the customer's awareness and ability to do math in their heads while in line.
They always overprice RAM (Score:1)
Have to be careful with Dell (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember a few years ago that you could spec the exact same machine and get different prices depending on where you entered the web site. Did you start at home PCs, or small business?
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I remember a few years ago that you could spec the exact same machine and get different prices depending on where you entered the web site. Did you start at home PCs, or small business?
Oh yeah, I remember that. Not bought a Dell item in ages.
Wonder if they have changed that yet.
Doesn't help that they also tend to use parts which are not part of the standards. PSUs are not ATX, sometimes motherboards are not any particular standards, and usually substandard cooling.
Was anybody really suprised by this? (Score:3)
Dell's MSRP prices (the ones with the strikethrough) are almost always around 20% over the market price. The "discounted" prices are usually still about 5% more than what their competitors charge for a similar computer, but you can usually get them to price parity with an additional coupon code.
Of course, they'll try to claw that discount back later by overcharging for a support extension, but most smart shoppers do not fall for that ploy.
Dell has been doing this crap for so long that I thought that it was just common knowledge by now.
The error never results in massive discounts (Score:2)
Hence it's not an error, it's not an accident that companies have 'issues' that charge people more money. They just figure it's the cost of doing business when they get caught finally and have to repay some of it, but overall they'll benefit from it and make more profits regardless of the penalties so of course they'll do it.