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EU IT Technology

EU Votes To Bring Back Replaceable Phone Batteries 218

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
What's old is new again, at least in the European Union. The European Parliament recently voted in favor of new legislation that would overhaul the entire battery life cycle, from design to end-of-life, which includes important caveats for smartphone users. From a report: Among the many changes, the new rules would require batteries in consumer devices like smartphones to be easily removable and replaceable. That's far from the case today with most phones, but that wasn't always the case.
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EU Votes To Bring Back Replaceable Phone Batteries More

EU Votes To Bring Back Replaceable Phone Batteries

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  • OS support (Score:5, Interesting)

    by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:41PM (#63608322)
    They should also require OS support, i.e. updates & security patches, for at least 10 years. That'll reduce security risks & the longevity of hardware.

    • This isn't easily enforceable. They could only fix a couple bugs and say the device is supported, while it could still be full of security holes.

      • Re:OS support (Score:5, Interesting)

        by bobby ( 109046 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:29PM (#63608490)

        I'll never be one of those online scolders, but there is a fallacy in that kind of thinking (I just don't know what it's called.) I agree with you partially, but it's not a black or white thing- it's a matter of degrees. Some updates are better than none, and it might help encourage more of a culture of refinement, rather than "New!" everything. I don't need a new OS!! I need a good solid bug-free one.

        And hopefully if there was such a law there would be (many?) more people involved in security hole research, because there would be a requirement to pay attention and fix the discovered problems, and the whole system would work better in a better direction for all of us.

        Each new "OS" MS comes out with has even more bugs and security holes, for example. I'd rather have XP with all problems patched, than 11 with constant, often disruptive, updates, and the worry about "gee, how many more bugs does my computer have that will someday hopefully be found?"

        • Security "professionals" Can Be Superstitious (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Seven Spirals ( 4924941 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @02:38PM (#63608670)

          rather than "New!" everything. I don't need a new OS!!

          These children are basically cargo cultist. They cannot stand the idea that someone might want to run old, stable, secure code. They simply cannot accept that something might be well configured and working fine for ages. Their fucking heads explode because they aren't smart enough to see through the superstition of "old stuff is insecure". Yes, old stuff might be insecure and it might be more secure than the newer alternatives.

          I remember the kerfuffle about updating the launch control software for USAF Missileers which was a very oddball flavor of an IBM OS from the 1970's. They are still struggling [c4isrnet.com]. Personally, I'd rather they not replace those systems with Linux, Windows, Android, etc... please! I'd rather not die in nuclear fire because of script kiddie activities.

          I intentionally keep old systems from my DMZ lab out on the open internet. One of them is an SGI IRIX 6.5.30 box with no services running except an updated version of OpenSSH 8.8 I've compiled for it in a PKI-only mode. I've kept it updated with newish SSH services since 2003. As soon as some foreign intelligence service scans it and sees that it's an IRIX box they probably think I've got the missing F22 drawings they want and they turn their whole hacking-force loose on it. All it does is run bozohttpd (ported from NetBSD) and I have backups, of course. Nobody has ever succeeded in penetrating the system at all in over 20 years. I recently told this story on Slashdot and all the security morons came out of the woodwork (yes, even after I told them the only service was OpenSSH 8x). They all told me how foolish I was and how I was going to get hacked and blah fucking blah blah. Well, guess what? That box is still online, still not hacked, still passing AIDE checksums. It's fine. Oh, one guy was like "well someone could still hack the kernel" as if I have some Chinese asshole at home in my garage on the serial console tryna get in. My only real danger these days is having to buy new power supplies or possibly needing to recap the machine someday.

          The "it's got to be new or we will haze you" crowd I think has some mental illness. They don't understand the tech they work with and get superstitious about updates and all the vendor warm-fuzzies. They are used to mobile devices because they've been staring at one since they were two years old. They simply cannot accept that some old system might still be just fine. In the case of IRIX, it's a total PoS outta the box, but in the hands of someone that knows how to secure it, it's totally fine. The security cargo cult people cannot accept that. They know jack-shit so they don't have any faith that someone else might actually know more than the "317337 H0x0xx0rs" (barely Unix literate script kiddle children who have similar superstitions about their "metaspoits" and "frameworks") or at least enough to keep the bad guys out.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by bobby ( 109046 )

            You and I are a bit alike. Separated at birth maybe?

            I usually hesitate to mention some of the "old" machines I use or have running servers.

            To be fair, I would update them, but some of the servers are 32-bit hardware, running older CentOS that is now 64 bit only, and has systemd which I just don't need or want.

            One server that's just a local file server is Windoze 2003 server, with remote desktop port open to the 'net. It's under constant attack. The pw is fairly long and those pw tester sites say a simila

          • I think this is actually a lesson in life each individual must learn - much like how to manage other risks as part of growing up. Many years ago, I bought a vehicle with all sorts of high-end tech (and have/had been a high tech promoter all my life). It was only after being stranded the third time in a remote location, was the value of lasting, proven, reliable technology hammered into my head.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Google has a decent policy. Even when OS updates finish, you still get security patches.

          Apple does occasionally do security updates for old versions of their operating systems too.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Which is more expensive, 2 phones that last 5 years or 1 that lasts 10? There are plenty of electronics in the world that last 10 or more years and they're still affordable. How are phones any different? Such a law might also effectively kill off the IoT market full of unnecessary junk that's full of security holes that never get patched & we end up with giant botnets.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by hjf ( 703092 )

            probably different in the sense that they're a personal device. a device you keep on you, all the time. and use all the time. i dont know about you, but in my experience all my phones end up scratched, buttons damaged, screen cracked etc after a few years of use. either by normal use, or by accident.

            i prefer to have a "cheaper" one that will last me 3 years or so (alas, what a li-ion battery lasts) and have it recycled, rather than trying to extend the life of a device that will fail in other ways

            like my 15

            • So you're saying that phones don't last because they not designed or made to last? What a surprise! But that's very wasteful & serves only the manufacturers at the expense of consumers, finite resources, & the environment. The whole point of consumer laws is to protect consumers, conserve finite resources, & protect the environment from exactly this kind of thing.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
        Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • ban cell carriers locks that remove boot loader unlocking?

      • Re:ban cell carriers locks that remove boot loader (Score:5, Informative)

        by r1348 ( 2567295 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @02:01PM (#63608580)

        That's very much an American thing, most smartphones in the EU are sold without a carrier contract.

        • And it is trivial to buy a phone unlocked in the US. This is a non-issue.

          • I think carrier-locks are important. It gives people a way to get a phone at a discount. If you want an unlocked phone, they are certainly available. Carriers should be free to engage with their consumers that way, but not by force. As long as carrier-locking is not mandatory, I see no issue here. Just more options for phone ownership.

            What I do not want is a phone with a replaceable battery. Waterproofing. Compactness. Rigidity. High capacity battery I don't have to change throughout my work day. These thi

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by dryeo ( 100693 )

              It's mostly illegal to sell locked phones here in Canada (might be legal as long as the phone can be unlocked on demand after contract ends or you buy it out), as well as the terms have to be clearly marked. $X for Y months.
              I get lots of offers for discounted phones sold along with a 2 year contract, though to cancel means being on the hook for the full price, pro-rated on how long your contract had left.
              So you get a thousand dollar phone for 24 payments of $20.00+tax payable with your cell bill, or if you

    • I'm torn on all this.

      I mean, I see where they've coming from, and I know there are people out there that WANT replaceable batteries, even at the expense of larger/thicker, heavier phones.

      But not everyone cares about this.

      I really do not. My phone lasts on a charge all day long as it is (iPhone 12 Pro Max).

      And so far (I've pretty much only had iPhones since having a star-tac flip phone)...my phones' battery performance last lasted right up until "I" was ready to upgrade. I don't swap phones often.

      I had

      • You don't live in the EU anyway, so why exactly do you care?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by NFN_NLN ( 633283 )

          "Nothing defines "right wing" better than an assumption that the policies they support won't apply to them."

          > You don't live in the EU anyway, so why exactly do you care?

          You don't think EU policies on phone batteries will make it to international models. And therefore you think you're a "right winger"?!

          This is pure gold.

      • Re:OS support (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:19PM (#63608462)

        Your dogma is incredible to watch. The only reason your phone had a standardized micro usb and later usb-c was thanks to EU legislation.

        • Your dogma is incredible to watch. The only reason your phone had a standardized micro usb and later usb-c was thanks to EU legislation.

          Interesting...to date, I've never had a phone with either of those....right now I'm using the Apple "lightening" connector.

          I don't have any portables that use USB-C so far.

          oops...I take that back, my Sony noise cancelling headphones have usb-c....which is a bit of a PITA for me, I always have to find that one damned usb-c in a table of lightening connectors.

          ;)

          • USB-C supports 40 Ggps, and charging with 100W/3A (and up to 240W/5A) whereas lightning supports 480 Mbps and 12W/2.4A charging. At end of 2024 EU legislation will require all mobile phones and similar equipment, even Apple's, to have a USB Type-C port.

            • Does the EU law require that Apple actually implement full standards-compliant USB 3.x, or merely that it be capable of recognizing a USB-PD charger and charging from it (possibly, only at 100 or 500mA), and otherwise just using the physical pins on the port for Lightning purposes through a passive adapter cable?

              It would be petty, to be sure... but I doubt whether anyone would be genuinely shocked by malicious compliance from Apple.

          • Interesting...to date, I've never had a phone with either of those....right now I'm using the Apple "lightening" connector.

            I don't have any portables that use USB-C so far

            The EU law requiring USB-C is new, and won't take effect until next year, but Apple is expected to switch to USB-C this year [techradar.com].

        • Your dogma is incredible to watch. The only reason your phone had a standardized micro usb and later usb-c was thanks to EU legislation.

          Stop blatantly lying. Industry standardised on micro-usb *long* before EU passed any legislation. Noone (except Apple) was making anything other than micro-USB YEARS before EU even thought of legislating anything (selling off their old stock is a different matter). The standardisation happened at the start of smartphone era, because, who would have guessed, developing a proprietary port and protocols through which you can talk to a computer is much harder than just developing proprietary plug through which

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by bobby ( 109046 )

        You make good points, esp. giving the customer the option.

        I would want easily removable batteries for 2 reasons:

        1) have a charged one ready if I need the phone but can't get a charge or can't be tethered. One of my older phones had removable battery and I had a spare and swapped them from time to time, always keeping one nearly fully charged.

        2) if I sense the battery is bulging and I'm worried about an extremely dangerous and destructive fire, removable battery will sometimes allow someone to save their ph

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shmlco ( 594907 )

          The problem is that you're making it easy swappable then you're making it a lot more likely that you're going to need to swap.

          Any additional thickness (like a protective plastic case) designed to make a batter easily swappable decreases the amount of space available for the battery. Make a phone battery just a single millimeter thinner and you've now just had a major impact on the battery volume and capacity. Fail to add such protection, and you now increase the chances of battery damage and fire on the spa

          • So you're saying you're all for a thing but then totally against it. Yeah, that makes sense.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by shmlco ( 594907 )

              Parent argued for swappable batteries. I explained why that was different than user replaceable batteries and why swappable comes with its own set of problem.

              Please they to read for comprehension...

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hjf ( 703092 )

          Point 1 is such a non issue it's ridiculous.

          There are small enough power banks nowadays that if you REALLY wanted you could carry one with you all the time.
          In Japan, you can rent a power bank at any konbini (and at major places such as Disney), take it with you, and return it at another location.

          I prefer my "sealed" battery, which means less chance of water ingress. Point 2 is a valid concern but statistically irrelevant.

        • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @03:43PM (#63608864)
          Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • And it is very easy (at least with an iphone) to swap battery when it is worn out after two years or more. Make an appointment, walk into the store, come back 1-2h later and pay $60.

      • I'm torn on all this.

        I mean, I see where they've coming from, and I know there are people out there that WANT replaceable batteries, even at the expense of larger/thicker, heavier phones... But not everyone cares about this... I really do not. My phone lasts on a charge all day long as it is (iPhone 12 Pro Max)... let the customer decide... What's wrong with that?

        What's wrong with that is the environmental impact of all those phones being scrapped merely because they need new batteries. It's wasteful and environmentally bad.

        At the beginning of a phone's life cycle, more stuff gets taken out of the ground, more energy is consumed, and more pollution is generated. At the end of its life, more energy is consumed recycling the materials, and/or more pollution is generated as stuff gets thrown into toxic landfill.

        The longer phones last before they're scrapped, the better

      • The EU will ban the sale of any new phone without user-replaceable batteries (and USB charging) after a certain date. I don't know if requiring a screwdriver will be alllowed -- as you say, most phones last days on a full charge. [Such a requirement would have been better 20 years ago].
        I think it's more about the user being able to replace an aged battery and thus make a perfectly serviceable old phone last a few more years.

        Replaceable battery phones don't need to be significantly thicker unless they also

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by 1s44c ( 552956 )

        I don't think I've had any battery powered device I could not double the usable life of by changing the battery. Slightly bigger is a price I'm willing to pay.

      • Re:OS support (Score:4, Insightful)

        by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @06:30PM (#63609212) Journal

        That way...let the customer decide!! What's wrong with that?

        There is not enough competition to allow the customer's preference to apply pressure.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jonadab ( 583620 )
      > They should also require OS support, i.e. updates
      > & security patches, for at least 10 years.

      Eh, I think the larger issue here is that we've trained ourselves to accept operating systems that are so badly designed and engineered that they continue to *need* security patches constantly for years and years and years. When other industries have a product recall, it's embarrassing and damages the company's reputation (or at least the product line's reputation), and that can take a decade or more to

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hjf ( 703092 )

        What a stupid comment.

        Do you expect anything other from a car ("taking you from point A to point B") now than you did in 1980, 1990, 2000, 2010, or 2020? No. A car is still a vehicle to take you from A to B, with varying degrees of comfort

        Do you expect the same from a computer TODAY than you expected in 1980?

    • How about we just get the hardware consumable items back to being user replaceable first? Over here in the US trying to dispose of a replaced phone battery is like trying to dump toxic waste (because it is).

      If you want to tackle planned obsolescent software that is another hill.

    • That won't work, because the carriers update their networks more frequently than that and don't want old and busted phones clogging things up. I actually had a bit of personal experience there...

      I was out of the industry for a few years after the Dotcom crash. At one point I was pinching every penny and had the same cell phone... one of those old-school Nokia bricks... for nearly 5 years. After 3 of those years, AT&T (Or they could have still been Cingular or PacBell Wireless at the time, I'm not sur

      • In my country, one provider shut down 3G (UMTS), but kept 2G (GSM), even EDGE works, so all that happened was that my phone switched from 3G to 2G.
        Another provider still has 3G running.

        And yes, I am using old, non-touch phones and I have replaced their batteries a few times by now.

      • This is what forced me to upgrade my phone. I stopped getting a reliable 4g connection from T-mobile and hadn't discovered Visible (verizon reseller) yet, so I caved and upgraded from my s7 to an s22. s7 worked just fine for all my needs and I didn't do anything that required security (no shopping, no banking, no payments, go ahead and read my text I don't care).

        When it stopped being able to reliable connect to 4g and I couldn't serf the web on my lunch break it was enough for me to finally upgrade but I wa

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      They should also require OS support, i.e. updates & security patches, for at least 10 years. That'll reduce security risks & the longevity of hardware.

      What about longevity of the network? Say you buy a 3G phone today - and get 10 years of support? But 3G is being shut down next year - so it then becomes - who's going to support the cellular part?

      I mean, buying a LTE phone today, 10 years you might not have LTE anymore because the carriers shut it down for 6G support. Seems silly, but hey, lots of ph

      • 3G? You mean the 22 year-old standard? The one that has overlapped with 4G for 16 years? Yeah, 10 years of updates sounds fine to me.

    • I was just about to point this out. Who cares if you have a new battery if your phone stops getting updates and becomes a security nightmare?

  • Waterproofing (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Ksevio ( 865461 )

    One of the big benefits from including batteries sealed in the phone was better waterproofing. Used to be phones would get damaged in the rain while now many you can take swimming with you. There were a couple models that made the batteries easily replaceable and waterproof, but it came with quite a bit of extra complexity for a gasket.

    • Re:Waterproofing (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jonadab ( 583620 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @12:57PM (#63608390) Homepage Journal
      Wristwatches have been waterproof with replaceable batteries since the eighties. Yes, it does require more careful engineering, but it's not some kind of insurmountable law of physics.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Yeah, take a look at the manual sometime. If you want that watch to be water resistant after the battery change you need to take it to somebody with the equipment to pressure test it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by twosat ( 1414337 )

          You don't have to have it pressure-tested, that's just a nice-to-have to make sure the seals still work. I only have my old waterproof Seiko pressure-tested on every second battery change. Alternatively, for a few dollars more I could have new seals installed instead.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        Yes, as said there are models that have done it, there are just tradeoffs involved.

      • And if you replace the battery on that waterproof wristwatch you then have to reseal it because it wonâ(TM)t be waterproof anymore. Which will cost you twice what the battery costs.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by twosat ( 1414337 )

          The battery is only a few dollars, the cost of a new seal wouldn't be much. Most of the cost is the watch servicer's fees for labour.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Have you ever had a phone get damaged in rain that was not a complete deluge? Also, why would you want to take a phone swimming with you and how does that even work? Stick it in your swimwear?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rhipf ( 525263 )

      Make the battery compartment waterproof so when the battery cover is off the rest of the phone is 100% waterproof (or some high fraction of 100% anyway).
      You can even make the battery compartment very water resistant (almost to the point of waterproof) once the battery cover is replaced with a bit of effort.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        But then the battery connector needs to be waterproof which means a larger connector, plus the battery itself needs to be waterproof

  • At last, something intelligent... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by franzrogar ( 3986783 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:06PM (#63608420)

    Do you REALLY want to reduce electronic waste?

    Then, allow SAFE battery replacement (like it used to exist) instead of having to throw the whole phone away or risk damages due (almost) impossible attempt at replacement.

    What I would even enforce is a battery standardization process too...

    • Re:At last, something intelligent... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:32PM (#63608504) Homepage Journal

      Do you REALLY want to reduce electronic waste?

      While I don't mind doing is if it is convenient to me, in generally I don't give a flying fuck.

      I'd rather have choice....let those that want it, have models they can replace.

      Me?

      I'm good with swapping phone ever 6-8+ years.

      And hell, with the iPhone if I wanted..it's only like $69 to take my OLD phone is and have them swap the battery/phone for me with a new battery....big deal.

      Either way, how much more "e-waste" am I generating by living as I described?

      Not much.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        For the sake of reducing pollution, having batteries that can be easily removed and recycled is important. Even if you don't care.

        It's also a safety issue. When crushed or burned, lithium batteries can explode.

  • i like the idea of being able to change the battery, but if that means the phones aren't waterproof any more this would be a huge drawback i'm not willing to accept.

    • i like the idea of being able to change the battery, but if that means the phones aren't waterproof any more this would be a huge drawback i'm not willing to accept.

      You phone whill keep being water resistant (only very few RUGEDIZED phones are water proof).

      Things that impede battery replacement are:
      1.) Back of the phone made from easily breakable materials (glass and some ceramics).
      2.) Cables on top of battery that have to be disconnected (or can't be disconected*) before one could change the battery.
      3.) Ungodly ammount of glue, and glue that can not be easily removed (glue strips) holding the battery
      4.) Battery soldered to main board*.
      5.) Ungodly ammount of glue holdi

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      That is just bogus. The biggest threat to your phone is you dropping it. You dropping it into a river is a very minor sub-variant of that and unless you are then willing to hire a diver, you are not getting it back anyways. And as long as you do not immerse it in water, what phone with exchangeable battery offers in protection is quite enough for everyday use.

  • That's not the worst. (Score:4, Informative)

    by mustafap ( 452510 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:39PM (#63608530) Homepage

    I hope they also address the issue of disposable vapes, these awful things that have a rechargeable lithium battery in them, but are single use. I hate finding these things on the streets. Kids today just dont give a shit about the environment, they just like convenience.

    • these awful things that have a rechargeable lithium battery in them, but are single use

      The proposal calls for: "the possible phasing out of non-rechargeable batteries where alternatives exist. [...] By 31 December 2030, the Commission shall assess the feasibility of measures to phase out non-rechargeable portable batteries of general use". They have not fixed the list of devices where the phase-out will occur, we can hope the vapes will be included.

    • I hope they also address the issue of disposable vapes, these awful things that have a rechargeable lithium battery in them, but are single use. I hate finding these things on the streets. Kids today just dont give a shit about the environment, they just like convenience.

      Harvest those batteries! one could have a lot of fun with rechargables, if one is an electronics thinkered...

  • Universal EV Charger included in the draft (Score:4, Interesting)

    by test321 ( 8891681 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @01:46PM (#63608546)

    "(41) It should be possible therefore to recharge LMT batteries and rechargeable batteries that are incorporated into specific categories of electrical and electronic equipment, by making use of common chargers that allow interoperability within each category of batteries." with LMT = "light means of transport using batteries for traction" i.e. BEV. https://www.europarl.europa.eu... [europa.eu] (click on the pdf icon in bottom right).

  • Well that's it (Score:4, Funny)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday June 16, 2023 @02:10PM (#63608602)
    Apple computer will have to shut down. Gonna miss them, but this is just too big a technological hurdle. Maybe some hypothetical future "Super Apple" could invent the technology (which would no doubt be indistinguishable from magic) but we just don't have the science to create replaceable batteries in the primitive year of 2023...

    I wonder if I can buy up some of their old shelving when they close down the headquarters next year...
    • "I wonder if I can buy up some of their old shelving when they close down the headquarters next year..."

      Get in line man, I'm there to get me some half price (so $550) monitor stands.
  • For no lockouts, e.g 3rd parties can make batteries without some proprietary signalling/authentication

    • Unfortunately not in this proposal, because the initial justifications are about waste reduction and the proprietary battery question does not have an impact on waste.

  • Why "bring back"? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gweihir ( 88907 )

    I mean I have never bought a phone that does not have it. Currently my main phone is a Fairphone 4 and what do you know, it does everything I want and did not come with crapware pre-installed either. The only reason so-called "high end" phones do not have replaceable batteries is because the consumers are stupid and buy them despite this massive design defect.

    • I mean I have never bought a phone that does not have it. Currently my main phone is a Fairphone 4 and what do you know, it does everything I want and did not come with crapware pre-installed either.

      The problem with many of these sorts of freedom/privacy centric phones is that they seem to have the same issues with distribution. None of them are available through a US carrier, which is a fairly big hurdle because lots of people get phones through some sort of promotion. It's fine that they don't, but they don't distribute through retail channels, either. Wal-Mart and Target are understandably problematic, Best Buy didn't carry them, even my local Microcenter, which sells SIM Unlocked Nokia and Razer an

  • ...they might force manufacturers to make phones worth buying again.

  • Can't stand having expensive gear where batteries can't be easily swapped out. Mobile phones were bad enough then they started doing this same shit to laptops.

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