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Reddit Takes Over One of the Biggest Protesting Subreddits (theverge.com) 167

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
Reddit is now in charge of r/malefashionadvice, which for a time was the biggest subreddit still closed in protest of the platform's API pricing changes. From a report: The subreddit is now open, meaning Reddit users can browse content in the community once again, though in a restricted mode, meaning only certain users can make new posts. As we reported last week, the moderators of r/malefashionadvice, a subreddit with than 5 million subscribers, had taken the community private and were pushing its users toward Discord and Substack instead. At the time, the moderators expected to be removed after receiving a message from a Reddit admin (employee), ModCodeofConduct, telling them they would be replaced if they didn't reopen.
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Reddit Takes Over One of the Biggest Protesting Subreddits More

Reddit Takes Over One of the Biggest Protesting Subreddits

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  • Irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)

    by iAmWaySmarterThanYou ( 10095012 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:45AM (#63704450)

    Reddit is still losing money.

    As they were before the API price change they would have gone out of business. With the API price changes they likely would have gone out of business.

    Their problem is not angry mods or API pricing or any other such thing.

    Their problem is their business model does not support their expenses. They either have too many employees or spend too much on hardware/services or don't charge enough for ads or don't have enough ads or they just snort the profits, but they're in the process of going under without something changing. I don't think the API thing was going to save them and they didn't appear to be doing anything else.

    If there's long term stored content on Reddit you'd miss I strongly suggest you save it because when they go under it'll just suddenly go dark with no warning.

    • Re:Irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:51AM (#63704458)

      Advertising is big business, but one thing the Internet did for us (in addition to finding more and more ways of getting into our skulls and grabbing us by our worst instincts) is show us just how little the average person's attention is worth... and now that the advertising industry knows what a click is worth and how likely that click is to happen (and how likely it is to be a fake anyway), what they're willing to pay isn't exactly huge.

      It turns out we might be saved from the evils of social media by the fact that it's not a profitable model.

      Of course, the worst case scenario is that intelligence agencies decide to fund them just to maintain access to the treasure trove of personal data people just willingly hand over.

      • now that the advertising industry knows what a click is worth and how likely that click is to happen (and how likely it is to be a fake anyway), what they're willing to pay isn't exactly huge.

        For this reason, I frequently click on the job offers presented by /. although have have void *interest=NULL in those jobs. I hope /. gets a cent or two when I click otherwise it's a loss of my time (for whatever my time is worth to me since I keep coming here).

      • Worst case? How is intelligence agencies fund social media worse than intelligence agencies benefit from social media funded by applied psych people inventing better click addiction for the advertising industry? What about the case where applied psych people convince intelligence agencies to spend 40% of their budget on kitten memes? Are you certain that wouldn't be worse?
    • I think what we are going to find out in the next 12-24 months is that LOTS of the most popular websites will be going away because many of them like Reddit have never made money their entire existence, and with the economic downturn the VC money they have been actually living off of is drying up.

      We could see a huge change in the internet landscape if these sites are actually forced to sink or swim.

      • Re:Irrelevant (Score:5, Interesting)

        by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:11AM (#63704754)

        I think what we are going to find out in the next 12-24 months is that LOTS of the most popular websites will be going away because many of them like Reddit have never made money their entire existence, and with the economic downturn the VC money they have been actually living off of is drying up.

        We could see a huge change in the internet landscape if these sites are actually forced to sink or swim.

        Maybe Google will buy up these sites? Google Search needs these "hypersites" (like Wikipedia, reddit, Stack Overflow), and without the hypersites, Google Search ad money will decrease. Google would rather these sites survive on their own without Google subsidies. However, if these companies go under, Google would be the biggest loser, and the required subsidy money is perhaps less than the potential for lost search revenue.

        As another thought, maybe these hypersites can partner with Google to get a subsidy in exchange for more hypersite user data. (Did I just say that aloud?)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by narcc ( 412956 )

          What makes you think Google needs "hypersites"? If anything, their existence makes Google less relevant, not more. You don't need a search engine to aggregate results from a fistful of specialized sites, after all.

          • For Wikipedia, the answer is you need an external search engine because MediaWiki's search engine is notoriously weak. It improved over time but it is correction for misspelling is still very bad, and the presentation of the results is also not very intuitive (the "a page was found" for perfect match is given low visibility, imperfect matches are given prominence).

          • What makes you think Google needs "hypersites"? If anything, their existence makes Google less relevant, not more. You don't need a search engine to aggregate results from a fistful of specialized sites, after all.

            I go directly to Wikipedia often, but only when I know the exact term that I'm trying to gain background knowledge on.

            Google definitely needs these hypersites because Google has to be perceived as having relevant answers to queries. Many top Google search results point to these hypersites. If these hypersites go away, then search result quality will suffer greatly, and if enough users expect low quality, they will skip Google searches entirely. Regardless of what else Google does, search is still the gol

      • I want to believe.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by taustin ( 171655 )

        It's becoming apparent that the Tech Bros of Silicon Valley have a business plan that does not involve the long term survival of the company, or turning a profit, or serving the ostensible customers (advertisers).

        Their business plan is very personal - build a large audience to attract investors, sell out to a megacompany, and retire a billionaire. In short, their customers aren't advertisers, their customers are shareholders (who aren't smart enough to realize the company has no chance of survival).

        There's

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

          It worked when the interest rate was near zero. Assuming your site has a growing user base, you have endless money to continue operating at a loss. There's no point trying to be profitable at the expense of growth. After all, who do you think is in a better position today? Reddit, or its competitor whose name I don't know?

          By the way, this is also why real discounts are rarer nowadays. Keeping a large inventory is not so bad when alternative investments are almost just as bad. However, when interest rates ar

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by taustin ( 171655 )

            It worked when the interest rate was near zero.

            Plus, nobody knew better then.

            Like a Ponzi scheme, early investors are the only ones who profit.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by tizan ( 925212 )

      Sometimes you have to be satisfied with what you are....Look at craiglist. It is still alive. reddit can be sustainable..but not becoming microsoft.

      • lwn.net is also an example. Two (2) people on payroll, 1998 style, not only it's useful but it's the reference discussion place it its domain.

    • Reddit is still losing money./quote?

      Where exactly are you getting your information? Because everything I find on the subject shows them making a profit of hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

      • Re:Irrelevant (Score:4, Informative)

        by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @11:37AM (#63704848) Journal
        Where exactly are you getting your information? Because everything I find on the subject shows them making a profit of hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

        You're conflating revenue with profit [investopedia.com]. Reddit keeps getting rounds of funding from investment groups, which doesn't sound like it's profitable. If you're making money, why do you need to keep going back to the well?

        Forbes is indicating Reddit is not profitable [forbes.com] as of the blackout period before the company goes public. That's a pretty good indicator the company does not have profits.

        • It's the only data that I can find. I thought maybe you had numbers on their operating costs and were able to show they are not profitable. But considering that they're still a private company no one really has that and this is all speculation.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Scoth ( 879800 )

          As someone who worked for a private company that was profitable and still took rounds of VC funding, there are legitimate reasons to do that (faster expansion, covering bigger expenses faster, better terms, etc etc) but you're probably still right. I don't see any real indication that Reddit is making moves that would warrant that kind of thing. We all may end up surprised in the end though.

          (Incidentally, aforementioned company still ended up bankrupt after making several big missteps and losing that profit

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by taustin ( 171655 )

            (Incidentally, aforementioned company still ended up bankrupt after making several big missteps and losing that profitability. So even if they are profitable now it certainly isn't a solved problem)

            Overly ambitious expansion has killed a lot of companies, especially ones that start out very profitable.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Scoth ( 879800 )

              In this case, the company sat on a technology that was cutting edge in the late 90s/early 2000s and made them lots of money and let itself get passed by by other companies because they were so incredibly risk-averse that they thought it was a better idea to keep selling the same product without updating it or adapting to the times. The bigwigs finally cottoned on to what was going on and tried to fast track updating our product offerings and underlying technologies but by then it was too late and we'd perma

    • Also notice that Reddit plans an IPO later this year:

      https://www.reuters.com/techno... [reuters.com]

    • If they avoided multimedia uploads and automatically archived threads more than 14 days old. They should also make it so that users posts cannot be edited nor deleted after 10 minutes and get anonymised after a year. This would greatly simplify the implementation of their technology stack and allow really old threads to be handled differently to new ones. So many unnecessary features got added to that site, making it way too expensive for what it is meant to be.

  • Reddit? What's that? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Xpendable ( 1605485 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:56AM (#63704484)
    In a few years, nobody will remember Reddit. They are dying, and it's 100% self-inflicted.

    • Re:Reddit? What's that? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:03AM (#63704516)

      it's 100% self-inflicted.

      Yes but the question is, did they even have a choice?

      This API money grab is almost certainly the first truly visible sign that the become-big-then-figure-out-how-to-make-money-later free service business model plain doesn't work. Kind of like Youtube going after people running ad blockers lately: I'm convinced Google finally realized Youtube is never gonna make money.

      Which means, if Reddit had carried on unchanged, they would have kept losing cash. Now they've decided to monetize their shit and they'll lose users instead. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

      • I would say they definitely had a choice. It's just that the third option is not the one our incompetent corrupt lying ruling class usually thinks of to go for: talk to your people about what is going on and try to figure out a solution that does not involve shitting all over them in hopes that they will swallow it.
      • Needing to increase cash flow is expected though... what's not expected is to have the worst mobile experience in the fucking world, not fixing that, and then still locking out the ways people get around that. As much as people mods want this to be about them, it all goes back to people being mad that they cut off tools without making the official ones good enough.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by taustin ( 171655 )

        This API money grab is almost certainly the first truly visible sign that the become-big-then-figure-out-how-to-make-money-later free service business model plain doesn't work.

        You mean underpants Gnomes?

      • Sure they may need to monetize.

        But not in this boneheaded manner where API users end up with potentially millions in fees suddenly.

        And with better communications to everyone about what they are doing.

        Hummmm, doesn't it sound like what some other bird brained site did recently?

    • Re:Reddit? What's that? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by irreverentdiscourse ( 1922968 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:04AM (#63704520)

      Reddit isn't going anywhere. That isn't how the internet works. It will be alive and well until a viable alternative emerges and then everyone will immediately switch.

      THAT is what happened to Digg. Not these fanciful stories you all like to tell yourselves about moderation changes..

      • If it loses enough money and can't get profitable and no one wants to buy it at a good price for the owners then at some point wouldn't they turn the servers off, viable alternative existing or not?

      • Reddit isn't going anywhere. That isn't how the internet works.

        This is exactly how the internet works. Things exist as long as there's money, then disappear in a flash when there isn't. It's been happening over and over as long as the internet has existed. Ultimately sites don't even need replacements because so much of the internet is about sucking up your attention and time, there are effectively infinite replacements to do that.

      • Reddit is trying to force users into its app so that it can monetize analytics coming from its in-app browser. Tiktok is getting banned because of behavior like this. Reddit's on its death bed while a firing squad is pointing at the guy next to them. That's closer to death than digg ever was.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by leonbev ( 111395 )

        I'll bet that a lot of the drama with APIs and subreddits protesting is actually driving more traffic to the site.

        For example, they just started a semi-annual event called /r/place where everyone makes a joint artwork by placing a single pixel. As expected, this year's Place is filled with "Fuck Spez" (the CEO of Reddit) banners everywhere.

        But, you know what? I'll bet that thousands of users are putting in hours of extra time on the site to complete those stupid banners and protect them from being vandalize

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Plugh ( 27537 )
      I deleted my Reddit account a few weeks ago and joined some choice Lemmy instances [join-lemmy.org]
      Feels good man!

    • In a few years, nobody will remember Reddit. They are dying, and it's 100% self-inflicted

      Without a valid replacement, this won't happen unless reddit bankrupt itself (always a possibility for all firms with negative cash flow). See, if we believe the reddit stats (10s of millions of user), there is too many user which would have no alternative, and no lemmy or whatever it is called is not a great alternative for the whole world. So reddit is to stay, and if it disappears, it will be due to a pure financial

  • r/malefashionadvice, a subreddit with than 5 million subscribers

    Wow... I guess it's true that testosterone levels have been dropping for the past few decades.

    • Re:You know what blows my mind? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Fly Swatter ( 30498 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:04AM (#63704522) Homepage
      The times have changed, now guys can openly dress up to impress that special guy they have their eye on.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Because as we know, there are so many gays. They're in fact everywhere.

        (Except real life, where they're sub-1% of male population. Reminder: when alphabet activists claim big numbers, they usually talk about the group that is 80% bisexuals and 20% everything else combined).

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nebulo ( 29412 )

          Your numbers are wrong on their face. Worldwide, a wide range of studies have consistently shown much higher numbers:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by skam240 ( 789197 )

          Why would there ever need to be an exception for bisexuals? They are both gay and straight and thus would fall into both categories.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by jythie ( 914043 )
        Eh, male fashion has always been a big deal. Guys have always been neuroticly careful about how they dress and judge each other pretty harshly for it, but there was a cultural block about admitting it. Haven't you ever noticed how uniform and unvarried the fashion is? You do not get that kind of conformity through apathy or ignorance. That comes out of careful tracking of what your peers wear and mimicking it.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by DarkOx ( 621550 )

          True - but something has changed. It used to be there was nothing to discuss. You conformed or you got ostracized, unless you had the social cache to be the one others conformed to.

          So no need for a forum. You could walk into any mens store and just ask the guy, what style of tie is in this year, boom done.

    • Subscriber count isn't the same as 'active subscriber account'. It also happily includes bots and alts and doesn't include lurkers who don't click the subscribe option.

      The nature of Reddit is such that a lot of accounts get blocked or banned by mods, both for legitimate reasons or because the mods are power-trippers. Either way, there's often a replacement account subscribing shortly thereafter and now you've got a 2-for-1 on the subscriber count.

      Anything other than unique non-spam posters per month less

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by cayenne8 ( 626475 )

      r/malefashionadvice, a subreddit with than 5 million subscribers

      Wow... I guess it's true that testosterone levels have been dropping for the past few decades.

      This was my first thought exactly...

      I mean....every day men's fashion?

      In the office a suit or business casual (slacks, polo shirt).

      Outside of that...shorts and a t-shirt for the most part.

      And men themselves, don't call this fashion, the extent that dressing is thought of by straight males is pretty much "what do I have to throw on that keeps

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by skam240 ( 789197 )

        I think you're mistaking your own experiences as the common experience of all men. I'm not terribly into fashion either but there most assuredly are men who are and they're even not all gay. Plenty just want to up their odds in scoring with the ladies as ladies generally do care about how you look.

        I know I've never been above receiving some fashion advice before a first date with a lady and a Reddit channel like this seems like a reasonable place to get it as any advice would be much less likely than other

    • Re:You know what blows my mind? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Baron_Yam ( 643147 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @10:49AM (#63704676)

      When I started dating seriously, the first thing I did was hand my credit card to a good female friend and ask her to take me shopping... and I looked pretty damn good when she was done with me.

      People care about appearances. If you generally don't and realise that's causing you issues, the smart thing is to do something about it. If I'd had the Internet as an option back then, I might have tried that first.

      On the other hand, if you're subscribing to a male fashion advice site long term... yeah, that's just weird.

  • Male Fashion Advice - Really? (Score:3)

    by 0xG ( 712423 ) on Friday July 21, 2023 @09:58AM (#63704498)

    I think i can sum it up in one word: Axe

  • If you want to see a successful pushback go look at the D&D community when Wizards of the Coast pulled the same stunt trying to lock down the platform. The entire D&D community said "We're done here, by". and WotC had to back down and do a complete 180.

    Reddit's users and mods didn't all come together. There were cracks all over with users who didn't know or care and mods who just wanted to keep their position as mods.

    Had the entire site shut down it would have worked, but when you're up agai

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Marful ( 861873 )
      Except WotC doesn't have admin access to the subreddit.

      Which kind of changes the power dynamic...

    • There's a slight difference.

      I can very easily continue playing my favorite RPG without the company making it. It's what I do right now. I don't agree with the metaplot changes of VtA 5th, so I ignore it and we continue playing V20, with some V5 rules because the rules actually did improve, just the story is hot steaming shit.

      And if we decided that no, the changes in the mechanics ain't to our liking, we could just as well ignore that too. I won't buy supplies and I don't need them. I have everything I need

  • 1) Piss off your free content curators who made part of your site popular

    2) Kick out your free content curators who made part of your site popular

    3) Replace them with new free content moderators who are likely to be worse at the job because they're willing to accept your new terms

    4) Block most new posting because you know it's going to be angry subscribers, frustrating those stayed despite the mod change but now can't post so they leave

    5) Imagine the above 4 steps are making your site more profitable instea

    • 3) Replace them with new free content moderators who are likely to be worse because their motivation is to astroturf, scam and spam, because who else would jump eagerly into the mod-slot of a popular subreddit.

      This is probably the biggest problem they'll have to deal with. Think about it: You have a HUGE reddit with a LOT of eyeballs. It doesn't take a genius to quickly see who has a vested interest in taking this over. Sure, it's gonna be dead within a week, but until then, I have an insane amount of watch

      • 3) Replace them with new free content moderators who are likely to be worse because their motivation is to astroturf, scam and spam, because who else would jump eagerly into the mod-slot of a popular subreddit

        So no different from the current crop of mods on Reddit.

        • Well.... no. Well... at least different.

          The current batch of mods has an agenda and a sense of a mission. They want to push their narrative, and whoever disagrees will be ostrazized . And that can actually be attractive to people who enjoy living in their very cozy filterbubble and don't want to interact with "evil people" who try to bring some sense and reality into the mix.

          Now, the new batch of mods also wants to sell their narrative, but not only is that a different one, they also don't care about the su

  • Why didn't they just delete them when Reddit failed to change back?

  • Squabbles.io [squabbles.io] is a new site similar to Reddit. Anonymous posting, many discussion boards for many subjects, simple clean U.I., and a very friendly subculture.

    Someone set up an /s/MaleFasionAdvice [squabbles.io] there if anyone is interested.

    • I hope it takes off but... realistically the traffic volume is too low to start a snowball effect in migration, and even if it did they'd immediately start having all the issues that Reddit does - free moderation isn't good moderation, you have to censor the crazies, the extremists, the bots, you need to pay for hosting and maintenance, you have to please advertisers such that they pay you enough to cover all those expenses.

      It may simply not be economically possible.

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