Meta, Microsoft and Amazon Team Up on Maps Project To Crack Apple-Google Duopoly (cnbc.com) 59
Google and Apple dominate the market for online maps, charging mobile app developers for access to their mapping services. The other mega-cap tech companies are joining together to help create another option. From a report: A group formed by Meta, Microsoft and Amazon Web Services, along with TomTom, is releasing data that could enable companies to build their own maps, without having to rely on Google or Apple. The Overture Maps Foundation, which was established late last year, captured 59 million "points of interest," such as restaurants, landmarks, streets and regional borders. The data has been cleaned and formatted so it can be used for free as the base layer for a new map application.
Meta and Microsoft collected and donated the data to Overture, according to Marc Prioleau, executive director of the OMF. Data on places is often difficult to collect and license, and building map data requires lots of time and staff to gather and clean it, he told CNBC in an interview. "We have some companies that, if they wanted to invest to build the map data, they could," Prioleau said. Rather than spending that kind of money, he said, companies were asking, "Can we just get collaboration around the open base map?" Overture is aiming to establish a baseline for maps data so that companies can use it to build and operate their own maps.
Meta and Microsoft collected and donated the data to Overture, according to Marc Prioleau, executive director of the OMF. Data on places is often difficult to collect and license, and building map data requires lots of time and staff to gather and clean it, he told CNBC in an interview. "We have some companies that, if they wanted to invest to build the map data, they could," Prioleau said. Rather than spending that kind of money, he said, companies were asking, "Can we just get collaboration around the open base map?" Overture is aiming to establish a baseline for maps data so that companies can use it to build and operate their own maps.
The only thing that can challenge ... (Score:5, Funny)
The only thing that can challenge a huge corporate monolith with near monopoly power is a consortium of huge corporate monoliths with near monopoly power!
Re:The only thing that can challenge ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Whoever wins, we lose.
Not if the winner is the side that produces open-source data [overturemaps.org].
Re:Microsoft contributed to the monopoly (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft Flight Simulator could easily be turned into "Microsoft Earth" if they wanted too, but they refuse to move beyond the flight part and into a full world simulator.
Perhaps, but the vast majority of it is procedurally generated from satellite photography. It looks convincing from a distance, but if you were to look at it closely you’d see all sorts of glaring errors.
Re:Microsoft contributed to the monopoly (Score:4, Insightful)
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Wokepedia? What's woke about the stable isotopes of mercury? That was the last thing I looked up there.
In fact it's somewhat unwoke as it has information about past climate changes and sea level rises that really put a damper on this "unprecedented climate change " going around.
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They had an independent phone OS and three browser engines (Tasman, Trident and EdgeHTML), they also had their own Encyclopedia but threw it away for Wokepedia. People go on about "killed by Google" but don't realise that Microsoft kills a lot of stuff too. Microsoft also owned Terraserver back in the day but didn't know how to turn it into a good Mapping service. Microsoft Flight Simulator could easily be turned into "Microsoft Earth" if they wanted too, but they refuse to move beyond the flight part and into a full world simulator.
Check out the Wikipedia article on its own ideological bias [wikipedia.org]. I do find it a bit funny asking a source to point out its own biases. However, there are sources and the talk page is informative.
So, OpenStreetMap? (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, the open source maps everybody and his dog is using in their products?
And OSMAnd, free offline navigation?
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"Prioleau, who worked at Meta until earlier this year, says Overture seeks to distinguish its data from OpenStreetMap’s by being more closely vetted and curated."
Rather than a new project, I would have hoped those corps would have used their considerable resources to improve a product that as you say "everybody and his dog is using..."
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The more cynical among us would say that we prefer OSM to be crowd sourced and not "curated". Especially if you've ever looked into Microsoft's curation efforts thus far, e.g. the turd-sandwich that is the Microsoft Store.
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how could you possibly say that after the astounding success of Clippy & Bob?
"I see the you're trying to criticize an oligopolist. Would you like me to send it all of your personal data?"
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"I see the you're trying to criticize an oligopolist. Would you like me to send it all of your personal data?"
Don't bother they already have it. Yours too, even if you think they don't ;-)
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The problem with crowd sourcing is that it doesn't gather nearly as much information as things like Google Street View and satellite imagery.
Google does stuff like recognize house numbers on front doors, and see where there are footpaths to determine the best walking route. Bing will sometimes tell you to walk down roads that don't have a pavement (sidewalk), for example. Another common mistake is not knowing where the front door of a business is, or that there is a back door that you can use.
Google also us
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In my experience, in the US, Openstreetmap is far inferior to google maps. YMMV, especially in Europe, not my bailiwick.
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Right, I was talking about Europe.
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You know, the open source maps everybody and his dog is using in their products?
And OSMAnd, free offline navigation?
ESRI.
Those who've worked in GIS knows that Google is playing a distance second fiddle to ArcGIS, Google Earth, even at it's heyday was not even remotely considered a competitor. Google's main entrance into the GIS market is the sheer amount of satellite imagery that it owns (IIRC Immersat).
Also "duopoly"... ha ha, he he, ho ho.
There's Google Maps and then there are a bunch of others (Apple, Nokia, OSM, et al,) fighting for the scraps that Google allows to fall off the table. Same as Google is looki
What a waste of resources... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just support openstreetmap and done.
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Seriously. Nothing but a bunch of greedy assholes. Support OSM and then anyone and everyone can use the data.
They are putting their datasets [overturemaps.org] under OpenStreetMap-compatible licenses, namely the ODBL, used by OpenStreetMap itself [openstreetmap.org], and the CDLA-Permissive v2 [osmfoundation.org]. So they are indirectly contributing to OpenStreetMap. It may even be better than having them mess up the OSM data directly: at least this way OSM contributors will have an opportunity to review the data (e.g. via Osmose [openstreetmap.fr]) before merging it.
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I use dead tree maps, you insensitive clod! Don't know how, but somehow they still work. Kept working right through several Android releases, too.
How's the real time traffic updates and navigation around upcoming road closures?
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That's what AM radio is for. News, talk, and traffic updates every 30 minutes! Fortunately those will be in cars forever and there's no way an automaker would be so shortsighted as to remove them...
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Do you really want MS, Amazon, and Meta to take over the OSM project? Because you know full well they wouldn't just be "nice" contributors to the project, without wanting to actually steer the project in a direction that can make them money. They are, after all, money-making corporations. They only contribute to open source when they get something out of it.
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I never wrote "take over"... I CLEARLY wrote "support".
There's a TINY difference between those terms...
PS: Do not pass words I didn't wrote as mines, please...
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I know that's what you wrote. And my point was that they would never just "support" the project, they would want to take it over.
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And my point was that they would never just "support" the project, they would want to take it over.
They cannot take it over because of the ODBL license [openstreetmap.org].
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I didn't mean, try to change the license. What I mean is, they would want to take it over, as in exert influence on the direction and priorities of the project. They can do that with or without a change to the license.
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Do you really want MS, Amazon, and Meta to take over the OSM project?
They cannot take it over because of the ODBL license [openstreetmap.org].
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The license has no impact on whether they could "take it over." The point is, if they put significant resources into the project, they will want to influence the direction and focus of the project. And the direction they will want to take it, is towards goals that will allow them to make money. The open source license doesn't stop that kind of influence.
Microsoft .NET Core, and Visual Studio, are both open source. But that doesn't stop Microsoft from fully controlling what changes get in, and which ones don
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Just support openstreetmap and done.
They already do. What they are doing here is providing a more "curated" dataset. No thanks. I know what Microsoft's curation is like, looking for their own products in their own curated store is more likely to land you downloading some scam product instead.
OpenStreetMaps vs this unholly alliance (Score:5, Interesting)
Throwing support behind OpenStreetMap would be the logical, moral, and smart business move but they won't do it because of short-term greed. They want control over the content as much as over the end-user experience. Tom Tom being in the mix guarantees that they won't pursue OpenStreetMap because it hurts their interests.
ArcGIS and others thrive on adding value to the maps, not only focusing on streets and navigation. This effort is bound to fail and maintain the Apple/Google duopoly because, from the description, it brings no added value or innovation to the space. Smart folks and startups will gravitate toward OpenStreetMap, commercial applications toward ArcGIS and similar, and this abortive effort will remain in Limbo.
Thoughts?
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Smart folks and startups will gravitate toward OpenStreetMap, commercial applications toward ArcGIS and similar, and this abortive effort will remain in Limbo.
I use OSM for maps and arcgis for geolocation...
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I use OSM for maps and arcgis for geolocation...
Indeed -- people writing non-trivial geographical applications use ArcGIS to identify things like flood zones or other purpose-specific locations beyond pure navigation. The ArdGIS geolocation data is expensive and leads to various commercial data providers within that ecosystem, navigation is more commoditized.
Cheers!
Backronym (Score:2)
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Throwing support behind OpenStreetMap would be the logical, moral, and smart business move
YES. These corporate map apps will mine our most sensitive details and ultimately serve up a nonstop stream of geolocated ads. Look at the shitshow Google Maps has become. Maybe it's time to finally move to Apple Maps.
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Throwing support behind OpenStreetMap would be the logical, moral, and smart business move but they won't do it because of short-term greed.
They are putting their datasets [overturemaps.org] under OpenStreetMap-compatible licenses, namely the ODBL, used by OpenStreetMap itself [openstreetmap.org], and the CDLA-Permissive v2 [osmfoundation.org]. So they are indirectly contributing to OpenStreetMap. It may even be better than having them mess up the OSM data directly: at least this way OSM contributors will have an opportunity to review the data (e.g. via Osmose [openstreetmap.fr]) before merging it.
They're working with OSM! (Score:1)
There are already others! (Score:3)
Here WeGo is a solid, free mapping application, complete with offline maps.
Sygic GPS costs $18/year for the premium version, but it also allows for offline maps and gets its data from a combination of Tomtom and OSM.
Meanwhile, Bing Maps was an interesting Android app for a short period around 2015, but while Microsoft installs it in Windows by default, it's not even an option on Android anymore...strange, that.
Ultimately, if these companies really want to make a navigation app, let's be real, it's about ad space. Okay, fine...but Microsoft especially knows what happens when a piece of software competes with something installed by default: it's got to compete for the install in the first place, which means not only being a nav app, but being a better nav app than Google or Apple.
In both cases, those companies have the additional advantage of the integration: "Take me to John Doe's house" is easy enough with Google; they've got the contact list to just make that command work. MicroMetaZon Maps will have to ask nicely for permission for that...y'know, three companies most people deem super untrustworthy to begin with. Not that they won't try, however; if they don't force account creation on startup, it's likely they'll do the shadow account thing Facebook does. To that end, "who gets the ad revenue" is going to be an interesting question since all three companies run ad networks.
The ultimate irony, however, would be if these companies tried courting Motorola or TCL to bundle MicroMetaZon Maps on their Android phones instead of Google Maps, which Android licensing doesn't allow, and this being used as a means of dragging Google to court regarding their bundling practice being unfair competition, using the IE case as precedent.
Either way, I'm happy to pay Sygic for my maps, and I sure as hell won't be installing a navigation app made by this cast of characters.
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Sygic GPS costs $18/year for the premium version, but it also allows for offline maps and gets its data from a combination of Tomtom and OSM.
Either way, I'm happy to pay Sygic for my maps, and I sure as hell won't be installing a navigation app made by this cast of characters.
Purchased a perpetual license for Sygic right before they switched to a rental scheme and released a new version that substantially reduced the usability of the software including modifying it to no longer work without Internet access.
While I would have recommended them in the past you are better off looking elsewhere.
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Waze (Score:1)
What we need is more corporate greed (Score:4, Interesting)
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So, being concerned that mapping is dominated by two terrible corporations, three even worse corporations decide to get in on the act? It seems like three of the biggest bully corporations in tech are jealous that a couple of the other tech bullies are stealing some kids lunch money and want in on it.
Then they would not have put their datasets under open-source licences, namely the CDLA Permissive v2 and ODBL licenses [overturemaps.org], both of which make it possible to import their data into OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org], the open-source map.
That said this outcome is logical. Bullies cannot trust each other so to cooperate they need to create some neutral ground with strong guarantees. The only way to do that is to use open-source licenses and then open-source projects automatically benefit too.
I forsee (Score:2)
what will happen (Score:2)
Here is what will happen if they can wrest a sizable market share away from Google. Someone is still going to have to pay for google maps, and it's going to be either you or advertising. Like what has happened to youtube -- endless ads or pay up, bud? That's what's in store for google maps if these other guys get a piece of their lunch.
Re: what will happen (Score:2)
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And if google loses some share of those contracts, it is going to look somewhere else for revenue. Hmm, you look juicy.
Re: what will happen (Score:2)
So, essentially (Score:2)
Street numbers (Score:3)
Not accurate and out-of-date (Score:2)
Bing maps can be rather inaccurate. Both Bing and Google can be out of date, by a factor of years. Google is worse because they tell everyone that a business is open, when entertainment venues can change on a daily basis. If Google wants to impart that information, they need a way of updating, so the information is timely.
I work with seasonal businesses and there's no way for them to instruct Google and Bing, "we're closed every July-August". One business doesn't have its own web-page because it's a f
Re: Not accurate and out-of-date (Score:2)
POIs... (Score:2)
Points of Interest are a pain for maps because they change a lot more than roads and addresses: an indian restaurant is replaced by a hairdresser salon, a clothes shop closes down, etc. And it's even worse if you add opening hours, whether delivery is available, through which service, whether there's a website or if it was dropped to only keep Facebook, etc. That said the datasets (buildings, transportation) seem to go beyond just POIs.
So teaming up makes sense and, at least based on the article, their st
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CDLA Permissive v2 is apparently clearly compatible with the ODBL [osmfoundation.org]. So it should be possible to integrate all the datasets produced by Overture so far into OSM.
isn't this action by itself antitrust-punishable? (Score:1)