BMW Drops Controversial Heated Seats Subscription, To Refocus On Software Services (forbes.com) 73
BMW has made a U-turn on a controversial subscription service that saw drivers pay a fee to activate the heated seats already fitted to their car. From a report: First announced in 2020, the subscription was intended to be one of many ways to offer flexibility to customers, who could opt in to pay for vehicle functions when it suited them, then stop paying when they were no longer wanted. But instead of options like increased electric car performance -- as was later offered by Mercedes -- or other technology-driven functions like autonomous parking or a 5G data connection, BMW drew criticism for charging a subscription for heated seats already installed at the factory. Now though, BMW will no longer offer such a service.
Subscriptions Were Cheaper (Score:3, Interesting)
The subscription option was actually cheaper. People just shot themselves in the foot.
Heated seats are a $550 factory option from BMW. With the subscription, the cost was a year ($180), three years ($300), or pay for “unlimited” access for $415. So it was actually $135 cheaper to do the unlimited subscription than to order it with heated seats from the factory.
And since most don't live in a place that they need heated seats more than 5 months a year, subscriptions were likely cheaper for most folks (especially those that weren't going to keep their car forever).
Re:Subscriptions Were Cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah I'm sure BMW owners are going to be worried about $135.
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The Tesla requires paying additional to "unlock" the power the engine has. And they charge $12,000 for self-driving that nearly a decade later still hasn't become available.
They also don't offer Android Auto or Apple CarPlay.
Re:Subscriptions Were Cheaper (Score:4, Informative)
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Sometimes I read these thinking "are these paid shills or are they really this bad at missing the point plastered on the side of the barn while they are driving a Zamboni towards it at a top speed of 2 mph?"
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for the children, 9 and counting
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I find apple carplay to be superior to the tesla interface. Why? Because it works directly with my phone in a predictable manner. Most the apps I need support car play and just show up in the car. Apple maps integration allows me to easily click an address in a message on my phone and see the map show up when I'm in the car. I have a single device to manage and not two. I don't even use the XM radio in my car, I use the XM app on my phone via carplay. The interface is superior. I don't use the built in voic
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I find apple carplay to be superior to the tesla interface. Why? Because it works directly with my phone in a predictable manner. Most the apps I need support car play and just show up in the car. Apple maps integration allows me to easily click an address in a message on my phone and see the map show up when I'm in the car.
Wow, that's the opposite of my experience. I tried CarPlay on a Chevy rental car for the first time yesterday after driving a Tesla for six years, and I can't believe Apple would ship something so bad.
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Exactly how do you want them to offer a lower tier car? Want them to deliberately sabotage the motors? It would cost them more to manufacture a separate motor and lose part of their their economies of scale.
(I'm not sure whether you're talking about M3P or Acceleration Boost, but the above applies to both)?
Tiers are to everyone's benefit. People who shell out for the higher trims effectively subsidize people who don't have the cash to do so.
Another example is similar, the rear seat heaters. LR comes with he
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Manual windows have different parts and maintenance and replacement stuff associated with them versus power windows.
That is nothing like providing heated seats, fully wired up, and disabling them by software because you didn't pay more for it. That's some classist capitalist bullshit.
If the manual/power windows thing was analogous to a software bit to enable heated seats, then the cars would all include the power window assembly and have it all wired up, and they would have just covered over the button and
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In a TESLA ... that heat that you feel in your seat should be a warning ... that the battery is about to cook off with you in the car. /sarcasm
Remember ... salt water and TESLAs do not mix. Ok, they do mix but you will not like the resultant effect of it.
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They are popular used cars for some reason. I guess it's the "prestige" some people associate with them. Certainly not the reliability or low cost of ownership.
BMW wanted a way to make second and third owners pay them. Got the idea from Tesla - if you buy features like "full self driving" and then sell the car, the new owner doesn't get them and has to pay again. You never really own the car, no matter how much you pay.
Re:Subscriptions Were Cheaper (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, yes, you absolutely DO own the car. Nobody can come over to your house and take it away from you. And if you sell a car with FSD, yes, it transfers to the new owner, and as a result, used cars with FSD sell for more than equivalent cars without it (though it depreciates just like the rest of the car).
What you're talking about however is how if you sell the car to Tesla, they'll strip out FSD before they resell the car, in hopes that the new owner will pay full price for it. Which is certainly their prerogative, as they now own the car after they pay you, and can do whatever they want with it.
Re:Subscriptions Were Cheaper (Score:5, Informative)
Uh, yes, you absolutely DO own the car.
And, depressingly, the industry as a whole seems to be looking to test the definition of "ownership". The heated seats was the canary in the coal mine.
Nobody can come over to your house and take it away from you.
True, but if someone else's server can 1.) tell 'my' car to start, or 2.) tell 'my' car to ignore my command to start, then is it really *my* car? That's the insidious undertow to putting cars on the internet.
I say this because a friend of mine, who shares my privacy and ownership concerns but not my technical expertise, bought a 2023 Toyota Rav4. She bought the car...only to find out that it *did* have the modem (though she explicitly asked), albeit with the hotspot function disabled in the panel. When I showed her that, she flipped out and said "we're going back to the dealership now." So we did. Here is the conversation I had with the manager...
"Good afternoon sir! So, we have a problem with a vehicle that was recently sold."
"What's the problem?"
"It has a cellular modem in it."
"A what?"
"A cellular modem. The car connects to the internet."
"You can disable it in the infotainment panel."
"Sir...if it's a software switch, that disables the hotspot, but the car is still on the internet. I want the hardware removed."
"But then you don't get the remote start on your phone!"
"That's the point! I want the hardware removed."
"But then you can't use the hotspot if you decide you want it."
"That's the point! I want the hardware removed."
"But then your car won't get software updates!"
"That's the point! I want the hardware removed."
"But then the car won't notify emergency personnel in the event of an accident!"
"That's the point! I want the hardware removed."
"But it'll void your warranty!"
"At this point, I really don't trust you to honor the warranty anyway. I want the hardware removed."
"...and what did we do that was so untrustworthy that you're willing to void the warranty?"
"...you sold a vehicle under false pretenses and seem to be trying to convince me not to have the hardware removed."
"I...I don't really know how to do that."
"So you've got an entire service department that is collectively incapable of servicing a vehicle?"
"Well, sure, but..."
"Good! So...have them "replace" the modem but put this piece of cardboard in the slot."
"............that guy went home for the day; I need to look into this in greater detail."
"But you're *committing* to ensuring that the modem is removed from the vehicle, as was the expectation at the sale of the vehicle?"
"........I'll do what I can for you."
"Are you committing to helping remove the modem, or should we call off the sale and you give her the old vehicle back?"
"I'll do everything I can to work with the service team to remove the cellular modem from your car."
Over the next two weeks, my friend got the runaround. Easily nine calls from various service managers, being all "oh, but you're missing out on so many benefits!", and she stood ten toes to the ground in her commitment to say "i don't care". Eventually, she got a service rep to finally give her an appointment...and they still tried to convince her to keep it *and* charged her two hours of labor to remove it. We agreed that it was worth paying the price just to end the saga.
This was Toyota, of all companies. The one notoriously accused of being very conservative and not embracing new technologies quickly enough, didn't have a single 2023 model on the lot which lacked internet connectivity.
We don't live in a world where software updates serve the customer anymore. Sometimes, the security updates do, but we, the Slashdot crowd, watched this happen in the video game sector. Games are *all* doing the in-app purchase / lootbox / season pass garbage. We look at this and call it "enshittification", while entire industries would love nothing more than to use the internet to remove contr
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The feature to call the emergency services is mandatory on new cars in Europe: https://europa.eu/youreurope/c... [europa.eu]
The dealer probably doesn't have the ability to disable it, not least because disabling safety systems could land them in hot water.
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Oh, and I am *sure* that it is totally impossible for the police or the state to use that mobile data link to still spy on you, listen in on your conversations, record your movement, disable your car in case there is a court order... year, right. fuck courts and their orders, fuck the state and fuck EU with its mandates.
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Uh, yes, you absolutely DO own the car. Nobody can come over to your house and take it away from you. And if you sell a car with FSD, yes, it transfers to the new owner, and as a result, used cars with FSD sell for more than equivalent cars without it (though it depreciates just like the rest of the car).
What you're talking about however is how if you sell the car to Tesla, they'll strip out FSD before they resell the car, in hopes that the new owner will pay full price for it. Which is certainly their prerogative, as they now own the car after they pay you, and can do whatever they want with it.
Those statements feel a little mushy. Whose car is it? Whose FSD is it? If I buy a Tesla with FSD then I can sell the car, but I can't just sell the FSD. Tesla gets to sell the car with or without the FSD and gets to also sell the FSD to whomever they like. For you and I, FSD is part of the car. For Tesla it's like a wheel upgrade. For you and I, it is absolutely NOT like a wheel upgrade.
And I'm not saying that's wrong or bad. But it is kind of new and weird.
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True!
The same is true of the free supercharging perk that was once part of the package on every Tesla. Sell the car privately, it keeps the perk. Sell to Tesla and they remove the free supercharging before selling to a new owner.
I was very lucky last year as I managed to find a used P100D with unlimited free supercharging.
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Yeah I'm sure BMW owners are going to be worried about $135.
Most of them would be more concerned with the resale value. Perspective 2nd hand buyers will avoid models they know may come with an additional subscription charge for a basic option.
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The point is that your car has to phone home to see if it is allowed to turn the heater on.
Having a subscription model with all the billing infrastructure and access control infrastructre isn't inherently cheaper than either making it an option at build-time, or just supplying it as standard in every model, and having it controlled with a mechanical push-button switch.
If it is something like sat-nav maps where there is an updating service that provides benefit to the customer - having all the new roads on t
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If it is something like sat-nav maps where there is an updating service that provides benefit to the customer - having all the new roads on the map, then a subscription is reasonable. I personally will just get my phone out and use Google Maps though.
Don't most new cars have ApplePlay or the Android equivalent? The last two Jeeps I had, you plug into the USB outlet and get charging and hands free phone and texting, and Apple or Google maps.
My Sister's jeep from a few years before, )maybe 2012?) didn't have ApplePlay, and they wanted a hundred something for every map update
I'm also OK with them charging extra for heated seats if the extra money is used to put the seat-with-heater part in my car rather than the cheaper plain-seat part.
Sure, as an option it's fine.
I always wondered - charging you a monthly fee all year round, when no one uses the heated seats in the summer months.
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I'd rather pass the heated seats to the next guy who buys my old vehicle. Subscriptions are nice for the auto maker because it means that when someone sells a used car, all the value added stuff in the subscription, or user's account are removed, so the next user has to buy those. Even before this, XM Radio was like that, however, what one can do with XM Radio is buy a license by receiver, not user, to guarantee that it will always have that available, even if the vehicle is sold to someone else.
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Cheaper or not, I hate being nickel and dimed. I want to own something I paid for, full-stop. I'd hate to have my car, fridge, TV, or anything else brick itself in anyway because some server goes away, or a credit card expires, etc. Digital rot is already rampant, and I don't want it in anything that just needs to work. It is one thing when a webcam bricks, its another to worry about your main mode of transportation possibly being bricked under non-ideal circumstances.
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The subscription option was actually cheaper. People just shot themselves in the foot.
Heated seats are a $550 factory option from BMW. With the subscription, the cost was a year ($180), three years ($300), or pay for “unlimited” access for $415. So it was actually $135 cheaper to do the unlimited subscription than to order it with heated seats from the factory.
But if you save that $135, do they disable it when you sell the car and assign it to a new person's BMW online account or whatever? If so, you'll potentially get that $135 back because of higher resale value of the car later.
How hard do they make it to hack your own car? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wouldn't think it would be terribly difficult to find the hardware switches for the seat warmers and bypass the car system and turn them on/off yourself with your own switch?
Or, how difficult would it be to reprogram parts of the car to open the virtual toggle on the seat warmers....
Just examples above, but I know lots of tuners out there have broken into the engine performance areas of modern cars' programming to enhance how the engine runs...how difficult is it to go in and alter/replace other parts of your auto's programming and hardware.
I would have to think at the very least...if the hardware is already installed, you should readily be able to access it?
I have a hard time believing that car manufacturers are heavily into DRM and encryption of code, etc....I mean, look how poorly they implement other things like the entertainment system, etc....they don't exactly appear to employ the highest quality of security minded folks there.
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Depends how they did it and where the control circuit lies in the chain but you're right, at some point there is going to be some type of solenoid or switch that puts 12V to a heating coil in the seat (or a vent control that lets hot air through) so at some point you could just tap into those wires? I wonder if the body-control-unit that I would presume controls the seat function is built to detect a loss of resistance on those wires and throw a code?
At a certain point (and maybe this is what they realized)
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Cut the wire somewhere, and connect in a new switching mechanism? Maybe put a mechanical switch underneath the seat and a wire direct to the alternator / battery?
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I wouldn't think it would be terribly difficult to find the hardware switches for the seat warmers and bypass the car system and turn them on/off yourself with your own switch?
Probably more than $400 for the mechanic.
(Cheaper to pay for the heated seats subscription.)
Also, your warranty is now void.
THE ABOVE IS MY GUESS. EVERYTHING I WRITE AFTER THIS IS A PREDICTION...
Also, no factory authorized shop will work on your car after you have tampered with it. And they are the only ones who can get parts and manuals.
Or, how difficult would it be to reprogram parts of the car to open the virtual toggle on the seat warmers....
Tampering with the software voids the warranty and also voids your access to factory authorized shops.
You'll have to pay a special re-instatement fee (fine) of $1,200 to be
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This will be all cars.
Welcome to the future.
Yes, you'll have to take all cars to the BMW shop. But while it's in there, you can go next door and enjoy fine dining at Taco Bell!
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I have a hard time believing that car manufacturers are heavily into DRM and encryption of code, etc....I mean, look how poorly they implement other things like the entertainment system, etc....they don't exactly appear to employ the highest quality of security minded folks there.
Pretty much agree, although I think the entertainment systems were rushed into production early on. In recent years, The Android and ApplePlay systems have made the entertainment and guidance systems hella better.
It's just evil (Score:3)
They already spent the money to include the hardware. In theory, they'd lose money with each person who didn't subscribe... To activate the hardware they'd already bought.
String 'em up.
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Once they have decided that supply chain efficiencies make it less expensive to standardize an optional upgrade part is the point at which they should have taken the W for themselves and their customers. Instead some executive fuckface decided that the customers shouldn't see the benefit. Seems they forgot that other automakers also know how to buy rolls of resistive heat tape and relays. Long time followers of the company are unlikely to be surprised though.
BMW used to actually be the 'driver's car' their
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There's actually an economics logic behind it. Simplification of manufacturing without burdening all customers with the added price of the extra hardware.
Removing options simplifies the manufacturing process, eliminates variations in build processes and parts ordering. This saves costs to BMW. On the flip side, maybe not all customers want to be on the hook for paying the extra hardware in every car.
So making all cars the same with the same hardware, and only charging for it if a customer wants it activa
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If it costs the same to make the car, why take less margin here and more margin there when you could level the margin and just say "Heated seats are standard!" which seems like a win for everyone without any drama.
Nobody buying a BMW is seriously going to bitch about the slight up charge and suddenly there is nothing to bitch about.
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There's actually an economics logic behind it. Simplification of manufacturing without burdening all customers with the added price of the extra hardware.
Removing options simplifies the manufacturing process, eliminates variations in build processes and parts ordering. This saves costs to BMW. On the flip side, maybe not all customers want to be on the hook for paying the extra hardware in every car.
So making all cars the same with the same hardware, and only charging for it if a customer wants it activated makes the most sense.
Dunno why it's so infuriating to people.
Because that's almost certainly not what happens with feature package up-sell. I have no proof, but this is probably what things look like...
Price of a car: $1,000
Price to build an option (heated seats, power windows, an alarm, a spoiler... whatever): $400
Price to manage that option (keep track of which cars do/don't get it, having the tooling and training to manage it being optional): $10
Customer Price of a car permanently assembled with that option: $1,410
Customer Price of a car permanently assembl
BMW will no longer offer such a service... (Score:5, Funny)
BMW will no longer offer such a service. The fix? Their cars no longer come with seats.
Re:BMW will no longer offer such a service... (Score:4, Funny)
BMW will no longer offer such a service. The fix? Their cars no longer come with seats.
Well, they already removed the turn signal stalk.
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BMW will no longer offer such a service. The fix? Their cars no longer come with seats.
Well, they already removed the turn signal stalk.
They still have turn signals, you're just not rich enough to see them.
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BMW will no longer offer such a service. The fix? Their cars no longer come with seats.
This is not at all thinking like a true modern manager. The reality will be every car comes with heated seats installed, they just no longer have the ability to subscribe to them to turn them on. Waste money and effort on them, then see zero profit! BRILLIANT!
Crowds win (Score:3)
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Don't be stupid marketers. It's not a good look to piss off customers
Considering the major users of heated seats are females, they really don't want to piss them off. The old adage "Hell hath no fury" does kinda hold true.
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Or you could state the same in mere economic terms: data suggest that women do 80% of the consumer spending.
The combo makes for a demographic that dare not be ignored.
Also in the news.... (Score:2)
Maytag and LG have announce a joint subscription service for their refrigerators. For just a small, recurring monthly fee they will enable the cooling feature in the fridge.
"In the spirit of fully transparent customer choice" Norbert Puffnstuff, VP of Sales announces "we have included the option to have our refrigerators actually keep your food cool. For those wishing to opt out, we are including - at no extra charge - a plastic bin where you can fill it with ice. For a small additional up-charge, you can u
The only people who buy BMWs (Score:3)
Are either those who think BMWs are good vehicles, and drug dealers.
Too late. (Score:2, Informative)
They've already pissed me off. I won't forget and won't buy another BMW ever.
Re:Too late. (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, too late, BMW you already look stupid. Doing a u-turn now just proves how stupid it was. I want zero services in my car that need "activation". Fuck you if you try to sell me a car with hardware already installed that I can't use unless I pay your tax.
Maybe they didn't see profit? (Score:2)
I own a car with heated/cooled seats. I've even tested them.
However, they aren't used. My nephew loves them, firing them up each of the dozen times he's been in the car in the 4 years or so that I've owned it. They were part of another "comfort" package, which was part of the lift kit package for the car. Can't even say I remember how to turn them on, considering how often they're useful.
Would I have spent money on them otherwise? No. Five minutes in the car, the seats are "at temperature" anyway. Why do I
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Our Subaru has heated seats. My wife (the primary driver of that car) uses them all the time. Heck, I recently got into that car and discovered that, sometimes, she's using the heated seats in the summer!
This is a good start (Score:3)
Maybe next they'll get rid of their turn signal subscription service and allow all BMW drivers to use them.
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You know what they say... "You think your job is useless? Remember there's a guy in the BMW factory getting paid to put in turn signals!"
some common sense (Score:2)
and some more BS... software as a service for a car company, wtf would that be ??
Being poor, I'll stick with my $15 heated seat. (Score:3)
I drive a 1995 Chevrolet s10 4 cylinder with manual transmission. One day at the hardware store I noticed they had a heated seat cover with built-in lumbar support & massage on sale for around $15 bucks. Which I honestly didn't expect it to last more than a month, but it's been about 4 years so far and still works great. ;-)
Why is this even a thing? (Score:1)
BMW listened (Score:3)
I cancelled my BMW subscription (which you need to link the app to your car), not because of the added cost, but because the app sucked and BMW made it difficult to pay on your phone. Too bad, I do think BMW had good UI from their iDrive design, in some ways better to me than CarPlay. I think they screwed up when monetizing it took priority over user experience.
Will they enable the feature for everyone? (Score:2)
The only way subscripions are ethical (Score:2)
... is if they provide an ongoing service, like internet access
Requiring a subscription to "unkock" an already installed piece of hardware is a crappy business practice that makes customers REALLY ANGRY
BMW relented (Score:2)
BMW relented only after they found themselves in the hot seat.