Privately-Owned High-Speed Rail Opens New Line in Florida, Kills Pedestrian (thepointsguy.com) 220
At 11 a.m. Friday in Orlando Florida, a train completed its 240-mile journey from Miami, inaugurating a new line from Brightline that reaches speeds of up to 125 miles per hour and reduces the journey to just under three hours. "This is going to revolutionize transportation not just in the country and the state of Florida but right here in Central Florida and really just make our backyard bigger," Brightline's director of public affairs Katie Mitzner told a local news station.
Ironically, within hours a different Brightline train had struck and killed a pedestrian. "Brightline trains have the highest death rate in the U.S.," reports one local news station, "fatally striking 98 people since Miami-West Palm operations began — about one death for every 32,000 miles its trains travel, according to an ongoing Associated Press analysis." A police spokesperson said the death appeared to be a suicide.
"None of the accidents have been determined to be Brightline's fault," writes The Points Guy, "and the company has spent millions of dollars on safety improvements at grade crossings. It also launched a public-relations push to encourage all residents along its corridor to commit to staying safe. However, it is a very real and ongoing element of this service in Florida. We hope these efforts will continue to further reduce these incidents in communities that see frequent Brightline trains coming through."
The Points Guy also shared photos in their blog post describing what it was like to take a ride on America's only privately owned and operated inter-city passenger railroad: When the train ultimately pulled out of the station, a surreal feeling washed over me. Those of us on the inaugural service were the first passengers to ride the rails along this stretch of Florida's east coast in more than 55 years. Florida East Coast Railway, which still owns the tracks and operates frequent freight trains along them, ceased passenger service on July 31, 1968... Each seat has multiple power outlets, and the Wi-Fi truly was high-speed based on my experience and the test I ran. I was even able to successfully join (and participate in) our morning editorial team call on Zoom...
The scenery along the route was simply spectacular... With no grade crossings and fencing on both sides, we reached 125 mph for the final stretch of the journey. The cars along the highway stood no chance of keeping up as we traversed the 30-plus miles in only 18 minutes as the tower at Orlando International Airport came into view... With plans to expand to Tampa and construction underway on its planned Los Angeles-to-Las Vegas route, we likely haven't heard the last from Brightline as it seeks to transform train service in the United States.
"I think what Brightline has done here has laid the blueprint for how speed rail can be built in America with private dollars versus government funding," investor Ryn Rosberg told a local news site. "It's much more efficient and it gets done a lot quicker."
"There have been colorful station openings, lawsuits, threats of lawsuits, threats of legislation and yes, fatal accidents," writes the Palm Beach Post, "but Brightline train passengers can now take the train from any of its five South Florida stations to visit the Disney World, Universal Studios or Sea World tourist attractions."
Ironically, within hours a different Brightline train had struck and killed a pedestrian. "Brightline trains have the highest death rate in the U.S.," reports one local news station, "fatally striking 98 people since Miami-West Palm operations began — about one death for every 32,000 miles its trains travel, according to an ongoing Associated Press analysis." A police spokesperson said the death appeared to be a suicide.
"None of the accidents have been determined to be Brightline's fault," writes The Points Guy, "and the company has spent millions of dollars on safety improvements at grade crossings. It also launched a public-relations push to encourage all residents along its corridor to commit to staying safe. However, it is a very real and ongoing element of this service in Florida. We hope these efforts will continue to further reduce these incidents in communities that see frequent Brightline trains coming through."
The Points Guy also shared photos in their blog post describing what it was like to take a ride on America's only privately owned and operated inter-city passenger railroad: When the train ultimately pulled out of the station, a surreal feeling washed over me. Those of us on the inaugural service were the first passengers to ride the rails along this stretch of Florida's east coast in more than 55 years. Florida East Coast Railway, which still owns the tracks and operates frequent freight trains along them, ceased passenger service on July 31, 1968... Each seat has multiple power outlets, and the Wi-Fi truly was high-speed based on my experience and the test I ran. I was even able to successfully join (and participate in) our morning editorial team call on Zoom...
The scenery along the route was simply spectacular... With no grade crossings and fencing on both sides, we reached 125 mph for the final stretch of the journey. The cars along the highway stood no chance of keeping up as we traversed the 30-plus miles in only 18 minutes as the tower at Orlando International Airport came into view... With plans to expand to Tampa and construction underway on its planned Los Angeles-to-Las Vegas route, we likely haven't heard the last from Brightline as it seeks to transform train service in the United States.
"I think what Brightline has done here has laid the blueprint for how speed rail can be built in America with private dollars versus government funding," investor Ryn Rosberg told a local news site. "It's much more efficient and it gets done a lot quicker."
"There have been colorful station openings, lawsuits, threats of lawsuits, threats of legislation and yes, fatal accidents," writes the Palm Beach Post, "but Brightline train passengers can now take the train from any of its five South Florida stations to visit the Disney World, Universal Studios or Sea World tourist attractions."
happens all the time in my area so why is this big (Score:2)
happens all the time in my area so why is this big news?
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happens all the time in my area so why is this big news?
Because this isn't Asia. My question: if there are no grade crossings, who are the "pedestrians" being killed?
Re: happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:2, Informative)
Re: happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:4, Insightful)
The new section just opened has no at grade crossings. The other existing half of the route has lots. And many idiot south Florida drivers and pedestrians
Amtrak did away with a lot (all?) of grade level crossings on the Northeast Corridor Acela routes to avoid having to slow down and reduce chances of an accident. I suspect Brightline can't afford the cost of getting rid of others and Florida has no desire to pay it themselves. One where I grew up was replaced with a massive flyover bridge crossing that replaced teh grade level one; as well as an underground pedestrian crossing.
Re:happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:5, Informative)
Imagine if AUTO accident fatalities go this kind of publicity? About 7,500 pedestrians are killed every year by cars here in the USA.
Trains tend to be a lot safer - they're driven by professional drivers, on mostly gated tracks, and the people moved per square foot of area crossed is MUCH higher.
Re: happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:5, Insightful)
In the US, one pedestrian is killed per 500 MILLION MILES DRIVEN. one death per 32,000 miles is a fucking slaughter by comparison. It absolutely should be news.
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Also, would it not make sense to account for the vastly higher ridership of the train relative to the car. Most cars carry a single passenger, whereas trains are (ideally) carrying hundreds to thousands of passengers each run along the tracks.
Re: happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:4, Insightful)
In the US, one pedestrian is killed per 500 MILLION MILES DRIVEN. one death per 32,000 miles is a fucking slaughter by comparison. It absolutely should be news.
The UK, with it's extensive rail network manages under 50 fatalities per year (not incl. suicides) and a single London Tube train manages to rack up 114,000 miles per year... That's just one train in the city of London.
If people are regularly getting hit by trains, that means that people aren't staying clear of the tracks.
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every avoidable death is a tragedy, but all else being equal, a car run over usually just inconveniences a small group of people, whereas a train run over will block the track to other trains and leave several hundreds or even over thousand literally "stuck in the tracks", maybe for hours, likely also affecting even many more people which depend on schedules.
mind you, i'm all for collective/public transport, and it is safer, but train run overs are a real concern. you'd think it is relatively straightforwar
Clickbait (Score:2, Interesting)
happens all the time in my area so why is this big news?
It's a hit piece by mainstream media. It's clickbait.
Florida is staunch republican, and to see anything succeed there is against the narrative. So they say "struck and killed a pedestrian" right up front to plant the idea in peoples' minds, then "one person every 32,000 miles" to set the idea into concrete.
The news article linked in the description [wesh.com] doesn't even bother to mention that none of the accidents were Brightline's fault, it just states the death statistics without context.
Florida got a high speed t
Re: Clickbait (Score:2)
Meh, I didn't think of it as a hit piece, I still see high speed rail as a win. Even in a shit hole state.
Which brings up the main point. How much of the line is on public land? How much of the line did they have to buy from obstinate landowners?
Old presumably Republican landowners are the ones in Texas trying to sabotage a train line between Houston and Dallas.
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The news article linked in the description [wesh.com] doesn't even bother to mention that none of the accidents were Brightline's fault,
The accidents are not Brightline's fault only because most things about railroads, including right-of-way and safety, have been grandfathered in since the 1800s. They have been granted the right to operate an unstoppable mass going 125mph across the landscape including roads and pathways, and if anyone or anything gets caught in its path, blame is assigned solely on the victim.
If somebody created any kind of business today other than a railroad that resulted in someone dying every 32,000 miles of transport,
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"They have been granted the right to operate an unstoppable mass going 125mph across the landscape including roads and pathways, and if anyone or anything gets caught in its path, blame is assigned solely on the victim."
They have been granted the right to operate on their private property or the private property of the owner from whom they lease trackage rights.
If anyone or anything trespasses on their property a portion of blame is assigned to the trespasser.
"Proper high-speed rail doesn't have grade cross
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Like I said, grandfathered rights-of-way.
Nobody else but railroads would be allowed to slice up the country with hundreds of miles of razor-thin ribbons of "private property" that everyone else must "trespass" on daily at their own risk as they go about their lives.
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BTW, Florida just showed everyone that an *incredibly dangerous* not-quite-that-high speed rail can be done in our country. Proper high-speed rail doesn't have grade crossings, and goes almost twice as fast to boot.
Indeed: seems someone forgot that HSR is more than just high speed trains. The UK had trains which outpaced the Shinkansen operating speed in the 80s, yet we have essentially fuck all HSR. Even throughout the 80s the UK had trains which ran on segments of the network within about 10mph of the con
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If you get run over by a train 99.9999999% of the time that's on you.
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I think that's largely attributable to government incompetence in some places. Yesterday on my dive trip, we were on the topic of how much we spend on taxes and basically have nothing to show for it because public facilities are very poorly maintained and/or don't even work in some cases. Somebody mentioned something like California having already spent somewhere over 10 billion (yes, with a "B") on a rail line they've been working on since 2008 that they've effectively barely even started on (some say they
Re:happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:4, Informative)
Laying track along an existing right of way is cheap and quick. Building bridges, tunnels, and viaducts is very expensive, as is acquiring a new right of way through a populated area. This is why California's HSR costs so much, and why Brightline can't go above 125mph.
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In this case the RR company is in a win win situation. Their funding is secured by government backed bonds. This funding enabled them to lay that second track, upgrade a few bridges, improve RR crossing safety, etc.
If the high speed rail doesn't work out there is no collateral to repay the taxpayers. However, the RR company now has more track to run more freight. Did I mention the Miami port was recently upgraded to receive the bigger ships that come through the larger Panama canal now?
Many South FL loca
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SNCF was angry because California voters chose a route through the Central Valley, not along the I-5, and the California High Speed Rail Authority was unwilling to go against the will of the voters.
You call that a "dysfunctional" government. I call it working as designed.
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SNCF was angry because California voters chose a route through the Central Valley, not along the I-5,..
Ahem. We were not asked about the route, we were told after the fact it was making some huge looping detours through the central valley.
When iA passed, everyone assumed it would run along I-5 and/or US 101. Those are the only routes which make sense to achieve the stated goal, connecting LA to SF.
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[citation needed]
Re: happens all the time in my area so why is this (Score:4, Informative)
That doesn't appear to be the case:
https://www.lalawlibrary.org/p... [lalawlibrary.org]
Fundamentally what the voters did was approve of a bond. The Central Valley bit was worded as something to be optional:
(3) Upon a finding by the authority that expenditure of bond proceeds for
capital costs in corridors other than the corridor described in paragraph (2)
would advance the construction of the system, would be consistent with the
criteria described in subdivision (f) of Section 2704.08, and would not have an
adverse impact on the construction of Phase 1 of the high-speed train project,
the authority may request funding for capital costs, and the Legislature may
appropriate funds described in paragraph (1) in the annual Budget Act, to be
expended for any of the following high-speed train corridors:
(A) Sacramento to Stockton to Fresno.
(B) San Francisco Transbay Terminal to San Jose to Fresno.
(C) Oakland to San Jose.
(D) Fresno to Bakersfield to Palmdale to Los Angeles Union
Station.
(E) Los Angeles Union Station to Riverside to San Diego.
(F) Los Angeles Union Station to Anaheim to Irvine.
(G) Merced to Stockton to Oakland and San Francisco via the
Altamont Corridor.
(4) Nothing in this section shall prejudice the authority’s determination and
selection of the alignment from the Central Valley to the San Francisco Bay
Now, notice the mandatory specifications:
2704.09. The high-speed train system to be constructed pursuant to this
chapter shall be designed to achieve the following characteristics:
(a) Electric trains that are capable of sustained maximum revenue operating
speeds of no less than 200 miles per hour.
(b) Maximum nonstop service travel times for each corridor that shall not
exceed the following:
(1) San Francisco-Los Angeles Union Station: two hours, 40 minutes.
(2) Oakland-Los Angeles Union Station: two hours, 40 minutes.
(3) San Francisco-San Jose: 30 minutes.
(4) San Jose-Los Angeles: two hours, 10 minutes.
(5) San Diego-Los Angeles: one hour, 20 minutes.
(6) Inland Empire-Los Angeles: 30 minutes.
(7) Sacramento-Los Angeles: two hours, 20 minutes.
(c) Achievable operating headway (time between successive trains) shall be
five minutes or less.
(d) The total number of stations to be served by high-speed trains for all of
the corridors described in subdivision (b) of Section 2704.04 shall not exceed
24. There shall be no station between the Gilroy station and the Merced
station.
(e) Trains shall have the capability to transition intermediate stations, or to
bypass those stations, at mainline operating speed.
(f) For each corridor described in subdivision (b), passengers shall have
the capability of traveling from any station on that corridor to any other
station on that corridor without being required to change trains.
(g) In order to reduce impacts on communities and the environment, the
alignment for the high-speed train system shall follow existing transportation
or utility corridors to the extent feasible and shall be financially viable, as
determined by the authority.
(h) Stations shall be located in areas with good access to local mass transit
or other modes of transportation.
(i) The high-speed train system shall be planned and constructed in a
manner that minimizes urban sprawl and impacts on the natural
environment.
(j) Preserving wildlife corridors and mitigating impacts to wildlife
movement, where feasible as determined by the authority, in order to limit the
extent to which the system may present an additional barrier to wildlife’s
natural movement.
So basically what the voters approved wasn't to divert the entire railway into Palmdale, rather they approved a bond to fund the routes listed in 1 through 7 capable of completing the route in the
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Bleh editing error, s/Fresno/Los Angeles/
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Let me explain:
Public projects are usually way underbid to gain approval and then the price is ratcheted up based on the sunk cost fallacy. California's HSR is no different. It was sold to the voters as a $30B project, and then once the bond was approved, that was boosted to $100B. Few expect that to be the last ratchet.
But the next step is to build the least useful part first.
That makes it harder to kill since the good part depends on keeping the funding. If the good parts were built first, such as LA-to-S
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Everything got a lot more expensive since Prop 1A passed in 2008, and the HSR will get even more expensive the longer it takes to finish.
Actually it's because the Central Valley is sparse and flat, so they could hit the ground running with less engineering effort up front. Also
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Darwin Strikes Again (Score:5, Informative)
Before this thread is overrun with whining demanding "the tracks should be elevated" and "they fence off the tracks in my country"...
The TFS notes that the death appears to be a suicide.
Keep in mind that Brightline exists because the mainline tracks of the FEC, Florida East Coast Railway, exist.
The FEC tracks have existed in that R-O-W (right-of-way) for over 100 years, thanks to Henry Flagler.
Go look up Henry Flagler sometime; interesting story. A partner in Standard Oil, with John D. Rockefeller, Flagler plowed his fortune into building a railway all the way down to Key West, Florida (completed in 1912). No railway existed along that R-O-W before Flagler.
So for the whining crowd that thinks the railway ought to move out of the way to avoid these senseless deaths, go suck an egg 'cuz the railway was there first.
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My issue is that it reaches a peak of only 200kph. That's not high speed rail.
Back in 1964, almost 60 years ago, the first Japanese shinkansen started operation at 240kph, setting the baseline for what is considered high speed rail.
Current trains operate up to 320kph. The new maglev one will start at 600.
Re:Darwin Strikes Again (Score:5, Informative)
My issue is that it reaches a peak of only 200kph. That's not high speed rail.
Back in 1964, almost 60 years ago, the first Japanese shinkansen started operation at 240kph, setting the baseline for what is considered high speed rail.
Current trains operate up to 320kph. The new maglev one will start at 600.
Your Shinkansen claims, while perfectly valid and true, are an Apples vs Oranges comparision.
Shinkansen is all "grade-separated" track; there are NO road grade crossings of that track. Building such track comes at high costs. Japanese society will tolerate such high costs for at least 2 reasons: (1) Japanese culture conforms to a cultural norm of what is good for the population as a whole is most important; (2) Japanese businesses and banks are much more willing to invest in long-term capital improvements.
The FEC mainline has no chance of ever be "grade-separated" unless the local towns accept some truly serious civil engineering & heavy construction. Also consider that American society is the anti-thesis of Japanese society: (1) Americans tend not to conform to a common cultural norm since Americans tend to believe what's good for ME (Gene Simmons would be proud) is what matters; (2) American businesses and their investors tend to shy away from long-term investments, in favor of short-term "this Quarter's bottom-line and stock market price".
So Brightline in Florida never really has a chance of being true end-to-end highspeed rail. It might be more like Amtrak in the North East Corridor - very fast in a limited section of track, and in the NEC that is some place out in Rhode Island.
If American passenger rail could ever reach a sustained average speed of 70+ mph over the entire length of a run ... that would be an improvement. Sadly, grade crossings, lack of new R-O-W for new HSR track, narrow track clearances, freight congestion (freight traffic was there before HSR was ever dreamed of), every podunk town wanting a HSR stop (to allow the train to pass through, as in the REAL CAHSR politics), and tracks with endless curves (straight track and track with wide moderate curves work best for HSR) will derail American highspeed rail efforts. Texas came closest to having something like highspeed but most citizens along that planned Right-of-Way DID NOT WANT TO SELL and the rest are fighting in the courts any efforts for the railroad to claim "eminent domain".
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Why can't HSR provide limited-stop express service that bypasses smaller stations?
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Why can't HSR provide limited-stop express service that bypasses smaller stations?
Local politics is the reason.
The CAHSR project has shown the power of local politics in getting a major project completed.
The not-so-polite way of saying "local politics" might be political extortion. Local agencies and governments in California can hold up permits for projects for what seems like an eternity. And if those elected officials "mobilize" some "anti-[whatever]" group to rise up and oppose a project, then the political & media attention can become intense. And let us not forget the wonderful
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Shinkansen is all "grade-separated" track; there are NO road grade crossings of that track.
And that's what you need for it to be high speed rail.
The UK had trains which could match or beat the contemporary Shinkansen for speed in the 80s. We don't have anything approaching a HSR network because we lack the lines, not the trains.
So, while you're both correct, the GP's claim about it not being HSR is true. You're telling us why building HSR is basically impossible.
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It really is the long term investment that is the issue. Much of Japan's high speed lines are built on elevated track, and the new maglev one is mostly tunnels. It's all done on a basis of a 50+ year payback. The infrastructure will be there, the trains will be running, for at least that long.
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They started at 210 not 240 so the difference isn't that far off.
Fun fact, the Shinkansen want e much faster than the Intercity 125 until them second gen was introduced in the early 80s. And the new 225 introduced a couple of years later was again not much slower. Even the third gen was only marginally faster than the APT from the early 80s. :(
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And when anyone discusses "Shinkansen" you have to ask them which version of the service they are talking about.
There are 3 versions of the service between Tokyo & Osaka: (1) non-stop; (2) very limited stops (at a few stations that interchange with more local lines; Japanese trains are VERY ORGANIZED that way); (3) lots of stops (which takes an hour or more longer than the non-stop version).
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Yes, this specific death was a suicide, but there have been 98(!) deaths already, and 7 were deemed suicides. Meanwhile at-grade crossings were cited explicitly or implicitly (collisions with vehicles) in at least 20 of those deaths. Honestly, all train tracks should be entirely separated from roads. Even if you don't care about the lives of idiots who try to beat trains, there's the cost of the lost hours for everyone riding (or unable to ride) the train after a collision, and the fact that collisions w
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If people "jump the gates" or try to "beat the train" it is not mass slaughter. Some people are just plain STUPID - sad but true.
In USA the trains have the Right-of-Way and crossing traffic MUST STOP for trains at grade crossings since the trains cannot simply "go around" any road traffic. I mean DUH where else can they go but the tracks that they are on?
Being there first means the railroad gets to sit on it's Right-of-Way track alignment (under Federal LAW) and local authorities cannot force the railroad t
Enough of the damn clickbait. (Score:5, Interesting)
Headline reads: Privately-Owned High-Speed Rail Opens New Line in Florida, Kills Pedestrian.
"... a different Brightline train had struck and killed a pedestrian."
I wonder how often Toyota reveals a brand new model in Atlanta while headlines also report 3 deaths that occurred because a '74 Corolla rolled off a cliff in Bogota.
Knock that shit off already.
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Looks like some blogger managed to get his blog post promoted here on Slashdot.
Re:Enough of the damn clickbait. (Score:5, Insightful)
"... a different Brightline train had struck a person committing suicide."
Has @EditorDave no shame?
I feel terrible for the train engineers who have to witness this repeatedly.
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Headline reads: Privately-Owned High-Speed Rail Opens New Line in Florida, Kills Pedestrian.
"... a different Brightline train had struck and killed a pedestrian."
I wonder how often Toyota reveals a brand new model in Atlanta while headlines also report 3 deaths that occurred because a '74 Corolla rolled off a cliff in Bogota.
Knock that shit off already.
When TASER went public, simultaneously news reports came out on how it killed people.
Someone wanted to affect the stock price.
Reporters, do your job, follow the money. Why is a death, not their fault, for some other normal line, being taken as synonymous with the high speed rail launch? Even if someone bother with the fine print, the association is deliberate. Follow the money.
In a related phenomenon (Score:2)
A lot of people in some big east coast city centers have lost the habit of looking both ways when they cross the street. I don't know how many times I've driven through Center City Philadelphia, or parts of Back Bay or Cambridge when somone looking and walking away from me just steps into the street and starts crossing.
I'd blame the phones, but I started noticing this some 10 or 15 years ago before phones were anywhere as ubiquitous as now.
Bicyclists too. No lights at night, sometimes on a phone, occasional
Grade crossings? (Score:3)
and the company has spent millions of dollars on safety improvements at grade crossings
Seriously, WTF.
High speed rail needs grade separation not grade crossings. Having grade crossings is simply just asking for it.
Re: (Score:2)
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What works more than not is by making the road traffic go under the rail at crossings.
Since the train is new, the roads were almost always there first. Tunneling the train or elevating the train would have been more appropriate. Probably easier and cheaper too since tunnels for cars generally need to be wider, taller and have powerful ventilation to vent gasoline fumes, car fires, overturned tanker trucks, etc.
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They can be much shorter though since cars can go up and down steeper grades more easily. I think road underpasses rather than full tunnels is the way to go. Ventilation isn't a problem since the underpass bit is usually only 2 or 4 tracks wide (i.e. not very).
Monorail (Score:2)
Monorail!
But (Score:2)
Unacceptable (Score:5, Funny)
Brightline needs to fix this problem ASAP by providing people with a convenient and accessible location away trains from which to commit suicide.
Build me a Railway (Score:2)
It's nice to see a high-speed rail project success story in this country. When I look to the west and see the massive failures and cost overruns in so many projects, it can be a bit demoralizing. I'd love to see the Florida HSR expand to the north a bit and connect some of the larger Southern cities so that we can get about a little more conveniently. I drive tens of thousands of miles each year because our current passenger rail system doesn't have the reach and convenience to meet my needs, and don't get
Very cool and will try it but I have questions (Score:2)
Living in Florida it's always made little sense that there isn't rail service between it's 4 major cities which are long enough to be annoying to drive to but close enough to feel like flying is a waste.
That said I have a couple of concerns about this things viability. It's not a time saver, Miami/Orlando drive is about 3.5 to 4.5 depending on traffic, this is 3hr38 and secondly the price of $80/150 each way which is more than the gas it takes to drive for many people (500 miles round trip). Then there is
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I'm not from Europe or Asia, but I can use Google.
Miami and Orlando are about 210 miles apart as the crow flies.
Here are a few city pairs that are about the same distance apart, how long a train between them takes, and how much it costs for a ticket on October 4, ten days from now:
Marseille - Geneva: 205 miles, 3h55m, $84 or $115 one way
Venice - Turin: 228 miles, 4h21m, Prices from $33 to $159 one way
Frankfurt - Dresden: 229 miles, 4h17m, prices from $64 to $157 one way
Kyoto-Yokohama: 221 miles, 1h55m, $90-
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True, did not consider the tourists. Yeah the drive is a slog so I will give this a try when I have to make the trip again, but man, $160 is steep imo. Hope it shakes out though.
Wow but... (Score:2)
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These political science majors and attorneys running the show can't comprehend that bicycle paced speed doesn't help citizens at all.
It can, if it doesn't suck for other reasons. An astounding (something like 50%) of journeys in the US are under 3 miles:
https://www.energy.gov/eere/ve... [energy.gov]
Even at biking speed of 15mph (a bit generous really for most, fine for the more keen or anyone on a cheap ebike) that's a scant 12 minutes of travelling time (20 mins if you want to include 60% of all (ALL!) journeys).
I have
One death every 32,000 miles?!?! (Score:2)
I am a 47 year old with a fairly average number of miles on my personal odometer. If I were a bright line train, I would have killed over 10 people by now. Thatâ(TM)s fucking crazy.
The real story (Score:2)
The important story here isn't the suicide-by-train - that's sad, but all-too-common and not really newsworthy. What is newsworthy is this quote: "I think what Brightline has done here has laid the blueprint for how speed rail can be built in America with private dollars versus government funding".
That's just what we need here in North America - more privatization of things that used to be, and always should be, in the public domain. If this is a trend and results in private commuter services being the norm
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You give circular reasoning. People say government needs to do it because business won't. But if business finds a case and explores it, suddenly the tail wags the dog and only government should do it.
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"California Rail is partnering with Star Citizen to cross-promote to true believers. Join the fun at the Waldorf Astoria, though you probably won't be allowed into the suite-level festivities. You can watch them on the screens in the Tiki meeting room."
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You give circular reasoning. People say government needs to do it because business won't. But if business finds a case and explores it, suddenly the tail wags the dog and only government should do it.
I've never said "government needs to do it because business won't", although I've probably said something along the lines of "government needs to do it because business will create a monopoly or an oligopoly and then abuse it relentlessly".
Re:The real story (Score:5, Informative)
That's just what we need here in North America - more privatization of things that used to be, and always should be, in the public domain. If this is a trend and results in private commuter services being the norm, then those services will soon be as shitty and over-priced as cellular and internet services are already. Wouldn't that be just wonderful?
While I fully agree with you, railroads in the US are a very poor example since they were almost exclusively built and owned by private companies until the latter half of the 20th century, when travel by car and plane made passenger rail service unprofitable - only then did Amtrak step in as a government-run entity to take over all the routes from the dozens upon dozens of private passenger rail services that were losing money. In most parts of the country, Amtrak actually runs on privately owned track belonging to the small handful of companies that now remain after decades of mergers. So outside of a few corridors (mostly min major cities and in the northeast) there never was a fully government-owned passenger rail service in the US, just a government entity that runs their rolling stock on private track.
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The US govt gave land to two railroad companies that were laying the trans-continental railroad, for free.
That's right, and they chose their route based first not on utility, but on what land they would like to own. And also, if the government granted the land to the company, then the company didn't build a rail line. A partnership between the company and the government built it.
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It's been my experience that government services are just as shitty and overpriced. I think it is a problem with large organizations overall, not something intrinsic to government or private per se.
Fair point. But least with governments, our votes and voices have some power, although perhaps not as much in decades past.
I guess what I'm pining for is the days when government actually reined in big companies instead of egging them on. For example, Bell Telephone were always bastards; but they always provided reliable service, and government kept their worst excesses in check, at least here in Canada. Now, it seems that telecom companies do whatever the hell they want, and the government occasionally exp
A small price to pay for progress (Score:2)
Can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. I had an omelet this morning, it was delicious.
Grade Separation + Platform Edge Doors == Safety (Score:2)
It's been well known for quite a while that the thing about being human is that humans make mistakes. It's not always people deliberately ignoring signals or wanting to commit suicide. But it's nearly impossible to get hit by a train when the train is underground or in a tunnel, elevated when tunneling doesn't work and there are platform edge doors in stations to keep people from falling on the tracks. They placed saving money on construction costs over saving lives. That's why nearly 100 people have been k
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Geology, geography... which one applies to finding water when you dig because your state is a swamp? I'd argue it's both.
Florida is going away, building rail lines there can only make sense if you're getting some kind of kickbacks
Misleading (Score:4, Informative)
It reads like the fatality occurred on the inaugurating line and not one that has been operating for years. It also talks about irony, but there is no irony. I used this train and it is clean and well managed.
Avoiding politics is expensive (Score:2)
The reason this was able to work is that a corporation took the backlash from local communities, not politicians. It took 25 years for this company to wade through all the lawsuits from local communities it built the line through. If it were a public service, it just wouldn't have gotten done, because the politicians wouldn't have been able to ignore the voters, much less secure the public funding for it
No accident (Score:2)
200km/h (Score:2)
That's not high-speed rail.
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Do you think this person specifically planned their suicide for the opening day of a new rail line?
Re:I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:4, Funny)
How else do explain being on the tracks? Stupidity? Come on, man.
Re:I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:4, Interesting)
We have tracks in eastern North Carolina that historically have had trains pass through 4 times a week. Lots of people think they know the schedule and fish off the trestle bridges. It's illegal but nobody cares to enforce the law. Now they're upgrading the tracks to carry heavier freight and trains are coming through at unpredictable times. It's just a matter of time before we have an accident.
I feel bad for the engineer that hits someone. That's got to be an awful experience.
Re: I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:2)
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Why don't they have to build pedestrian walkways on these trestles? There's clearly public interest in them. You probably don't have to kill too many people before it would have saved money.
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Privately-Owned High-Speed Rail Opens New Line in Florida, Kills Pedestrian
Fixed it for you.
Maybe. (Score:3)
The comment "none of the accidents have been determined to be their fault" is both ambiguous and weaselly. You can't tell even approximately what happened.
OTOH, I have a difficult time imagining that it was anything not involving people getting on the tracks. So my guess is that the statement just came from someone who is habitually vague and weaselly, even when he doesn't need to be. But it would be nice to know whether people in Florida, say, try to play toreador with the trains.
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Re: Maybe. (Score:2)
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Thanks. It's nice to have a reasonable reason.
Re:I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:5, Interesting)
Nope.
There are plenty of cases involving people who are drunk and stupid, but not the least suicidal. We used to have someone drive onto the tracks about once a year in my town, and they recently put up some reflectors on plastic poles to try to discourage that; hopefully it will fix the problem.
And I saw the result of one accident where someone was running on the tracks (while wearing headphones, which may have contributed, but probably not). A train came and blew its horn, so he moved to the other tracks, but he didn't look and see that there was a second train coming behind him. I was bicycling by and saw it from an overpass, though fortunately he had been covered by the time I got there.
Years before that, I was in a car, and the crossing lights came on. We could see this train coming from the right at like 1mph that was going to take forever to even get to us, and my friend driving suggested driving around the gate to cross, but fortunately he didn't, because another train came by in the other direction at 70mph, blocked from view by a long building. That was scary.
So, yeah, a good number of deaths on the tracks are suicide, but a good number aren't.
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They're like the reflectors on posts that you might see on the side of a rural highway, except the posts are white plastic tubes. There's one between the two tracks and one on the outside of each track. They're probably only inches from the trains. I figure there's a good chance they'll stop stupid drivers from turning onto the tracks. They're cheap enough that I expect if they prevent one stupid driver, they'll pay for themselves in police overtime savings alone.
And if anyone is drunk and stupid enough
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If you stand or drive onto the tracks it must be suicide.
Nope. Either stupidity or lazines. Also from Florida [cnn.com] from today. Then there's this one [carscoops.com] from Belgium. Back to the U.S., from three months ago in Texas [youtube.com]. And another from Florida where somehow the car got stuck on the crossing [clickorlando.com]. Another vehicle somehow getting stuck [stltoday.com] while crossing tracks.
Meanwhile, in May, two kids were killed [usatoday.com] when walking on train tracks. They moved to a different set of tracks to avoid an oncoming train and were hit by a train on t
Re: I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:2)
Or a homeless guy pushes a random stranger on to the tracks.
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But even then "If the car dies on the crossing and the barriers go down: abandon the car and run"
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just last week 4 youth died nearby, rolled over by a train. they were part of a large group leaving a party and crossing where they weren't supposed to.
Re: I Thought All Train Deaths Were Suicide (Score:2)
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Ironically, it's to get to Orlando aka Disney World, who prognosticated all kinds of high speed monorails in the 1950s there.
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With two tracks, one train obscures the other, sight and sound, so you assume all sound is coming from the train you see.
Many such vids.
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The emphasis on assigning blame to an individual, rather than examining how the system works is why America has a somewhat higher number of fatalities per mile travelled (on roads to make it more comparable) than Western Europe. It's about 13.7 per billion miles traveled in the US compared to about 5 in the UK for example.
Also why America has a lot more cars driving into buildings.
Ultimately people are people and systems need to be
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Like the example above, that is just a darwin arward. Just standing between the tracks and totally ignoring the warnings that a train is coming.
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True, but you can't fix stupid.
Fix isn't binary and neither is stupid, so essentially yes you can. If you design stuff better, stupid has less of an impact. Sure with a sufficiently advanced idiot, there's nothing you can do, but designing things better will improve things.
Blaming individuals for being lazy/stupid/incompetence/etc rather than seeing how the design can be changed to mitigate fundamentally human flaws is why American roads have 2-3 the deaths per mile traveled compared to similar western Euro
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No he doesn't. Even the proponents of hyperloop state the capacity will be "thousands" of passengers per hour. That's if and when it works. The HS1 line in the UK runs at about 25000 passengers per hour. That's with older tech and the UK's notoriously small loading gauge.