The Google Pixel 8 is Official With 7 Years of Updates (arstechnica.com) 77
Google's newest flagship phone is finally official. The Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro were both unveiled today, with the headline changes being a whopping seven years of updates, flat screens across the board, new CPUs, and a $100 price increase. The Pixel 8 Pro is officially $999, while the Pixel 8 is $699. ArsTechnica: As for specs, the Pro display is a 6.7-inch, 120 Hz, 2992x1344 OLED. Google is branding this display "Super Actua" because it's one of the brightest phone displays on the market at 1600 nits for HDR content and 2400 nits in sunlight mode. That beats the sunlight modes on the S23 Ultra (1750 nits) and iPhone 15 Pro Max (2000 nits) but not the Xiaomi 13T Pro (2600 nits). The storage situation here isn't great. The Pixel 8 Pro has 12GB of RAM and storage tiers of 128GB, 256GB, 512GB, and 1TB. Most other phones in this price range start at 256GB, and the 8 Pro uses slower UFS 3.1 storage instead of the speedy UFS 4.0 a lot of phones ship with now. The 8 Pro battery is 5050 mAh, and there's 30 W wired charging. Wireless charging will hit 23 W on the Pixel charging stand, while Qi chargers will only hit 12 W (it would be great if Qi2 would get its act together). Both phones have IP68 dust and water resistance. On the software update support lifecycle: This year, there is finally something tangible to point to -- 7 years of OS updates. Unlike with previous models, there are no games being played here, as Google says there are "7 years of OS, security, and Feature Drop updates." That's more major OS updates than even iPhone owners are getting, with the iPhone X getting iOS versions 11-16.
Whatâ(TM)s an update? (Score:3)
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Isn't Apple only pushing legally-mandated and calamitous bug updates to those old phones?
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Isn't Apple only pushing legally-mandated and calamitous bug updates to those old phones?
Define "legally-mandated". I know of no legal mandate that requires Apple or anyone to push software updates to cell phone models that are 7 years old.
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You would think that these "legal-mandates" would apply to Android phones too or are they special? My 7+ got an update last month too.
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My 8 year old iPhone 6S just got an update. Does security updates not count then? It has to be a full OS upgrade?
IIRC, I got my 6S with 13.X and it's now at 15.7.9. I find the 6S a little too big in size for what I use it for. I hope it is still going to last a while so I don't have to walk around with a tablet...
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Get the 13 mini while you still can my dude.
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We have been telling people that they get security updates direct from Google for a very long time (more than 8 years), but they don't listen. The Apple hype train is too strong. So Google did the only thing they could do - offer more OS updates than Apple does.
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I have an iPhone and I am about to type in What's and it will display correctly.
for who (Score:2)
By "Feature Drop" updates, we all know (Score:3)
that they mean updates that remove features. Hey, before Google came around, we had to make fun of Microsoft's unending series of failed new smartphones. It turns out that Microsoft was just a bunch of complete slackers!
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that they mean updates that remove features. Hey, before Google came around, we had to make fun of Microsoft's unending series of failed new smartphones. It turns out that Microsoft was just a bunch of complete slackers!
Erm... It more than likely means that the update will not contain newer features as it would negatively affect performance on older hardware. Apple does exactly the same.
As long as you're still getting security updates, it's a win.
Nokia (HMD Global) has been promising 2 years of updates and 1 year further for security updates for years now, so they've been fulfilling that promise. Then again, it's vanilla Android so it's easy for them.
Still more than I would spend (Score:2)
Cheaper than Samsung or Apple but still far more than I would be willing to pay for a smart phone. There isnt anything these phones do that I would need that a $300 phone doesnt do just fine. I know I certainly dont need a faster processor or more ram in my phone for instance, I havent felt that pinch in close to a decade now.
At least the 8 years of support is promising. They're probably trying to capitalize on the fact that people want more longevity from their phones nowadays.
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Oops, 7 years of updates.
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In few months they should announce an "8A" version which historically has been around $500 but will usually go on sale for around $400.
Personally I wait until a new version and scoop up the last version on the cheap, I got my Pixel 6 for like $300
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Indeed, I paid 100$ for my iphone 6S, 85% battery state. Perfect size and price for me. I even find it a little too big for what I do with it...
Almost everything is turned off on it, I seldom use wifi on it so even that is turned off, only turned on to check for OS updates so battery should still last a long time hopefully...
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I don't have a ton of experience with iPhones but last year i took my mothers old iPhone 6 which she finally replaced since the battery had blown the screen out and was able to put in a new one and those things are pretty tanky, it still works like a treat now.
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Indeed, I paid 100$ for my iphone 6S, 85% battery state. Perfect size and price for me. I even find it a little too big for what I do with it...
Almost everything is turned off on it, I seldom use wifi on it so even that is turned off, only turned on to check for OS updates so battery should still last a long time hopefully...
If you're in an area with Wifi most of the time, you'll get better battery life with Wifi turned on because the phone will use the cellular modem less. The difference in power consumption between Wifi and cellular is enormous. Which makes a lot of sense, actually, if you consider that signals attenuate per the inverse square law, and cell towers are generally 3-4 orders of magnitude further from your device than Wifi access points, so you'd expect cellular radios to consume 6-8 orders of magnitude more powe
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If you're in an area with Wifi most of the time, you'll get better battery life with Wifi turned on because the phone will use the cellular modem less.
The cell data (Internet) is obviously off too... I turn it on even less often than wifi...
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If you're in an area with Wifi most of the time, you'll get better battery life with Wifi turned on because the phone will use the cellular modem less.
The cell data (Internet) is obviously off too... I turn it on even less often than wifi...
Your device is still going to be periodically checking in with the cell towers for phone/SMS service, and much of that can also go over Wifi, though exactly how much depends on your mobile service provider. You can probably test it by disabling the cellular modem (e.g. airplane mode, but with Wifi on) and then testing what you can and can't do. If you can make phone calls and send texts in that mode then it's likely that all of your phone's services will go over Wifi if available.
My phone (Pixel 8 Pro, a
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anyway, battery last 3 times as long with wifi off since my bed room is far away from the station. I barely use the phone and nobody has my cell number... call forward from my pbx only and DISA to make phone calls :)
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anyway, battery last 3 times as long with wifi off since my bed room is far away from the station.
That's very weird. Distance from the Wifi AP is nearly irrelevant, since Wifi doesn't bother much with adjusting signal strength for distance.
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Keep in mind my AP is set the minimum possible reach (power) for security reason. I barely use wifi as well and turn that off as well often. There is a ton of wifi networks around me so I assume there would be some power usage on the iphone to scan all avail networks to see if there is one it can connect to.
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Lowest power consumption would be to let your phone connect to a Wifi network and stay connected, particularly if the phone and network are able to use Wifi for all comms.
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I would tend to agree with cell tower contact completely off, airplane mode or something but I use that iphone mainly for redundancy and all phones would then be unreachable if the iphone was only communicating only with wifi on the same network as the other phones. Redundancy in the sense somebody trying to reach me for an emergency, not really calling out.
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That does not make any sense.
If WiFi is on but you do not use it for anything ... why would that safe battery?
If you want to say: web browsing with Wifi is less battery consuming than via cellular, you perhaps have a point (no idea).
But as long as one is walking around and want to safe battery, obviously switching WiFi off is the way to go.
will route all SMS and phone comms over Wifi when it's available that is nonsense. It would/could only work if you are in a free wifi network of your telecom provider.
In
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Got my wife's 5a for $250 when they were about to drop them from the store. Plus they're unlockable and well supported by LineageOS, so... good deal.
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It depends on the Pro cameras. If the rumours about night time video performance are true, it will be tempting. The 8A won't get those cameras.
Rumour has it that the new sensor is better for night use. However, it has three sensors, so we shall see if only the main one is improved, or if the wide one is too.
It would be nice if you could get higher resolution RAWs out of it too. Now it does 8k video that suggests they aren't binning down to 12MP like with the 7.
If it's not that good I might just get a point
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There isnt anything these phones do that I would need that a $300 phone doesnt do just fine.
At a glance, I would say no. Yes all these flagship phones have the fastest processors, large amounts of RAM, etc. The one thing that I can see is that flagship phones have higher resolution cameras. 48-50MP is the baseline for flagship phones and on paper is much more than 8 or 12MP cameras that most other phones get. I do not know if that is true mega-pixels or mega-pixel equivalents. If you don't need 48MP or higher (and I do not), the flagship phones may not be worth it.
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Lolz ... it is not cheaper than Apple.
Stupid idiots. Go to apple.com and check yourself.
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There isnt anything these phones do that I would need that a $300 phone doesnt do just fine. ...
Sure, and your $300 phone has 1TB or 2TB storage: just lolz
Too bad the update policy isn't retroactive (Score:2, Informative)
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I will use my Pixel 6 until it is no longer supported next year.
So, I will maybe think about a Pixel 9. Hopefully they continue this trend toward long support cycles.
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LineageOS for the 6 works great. Unlocking is as easy as rebooting to fastboot mode, then sending the "fastboot flashing unlock" command.
The actual installation is more janky (you have to repartition, but it's basically just flashing some files), but you only have to do it once, then you can update from within Lineage.
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It cost me $149 to upgrade from an out-of-support Pixel 3a to a brand new shiny Pixel 6a upon trade-in. The new 6a came with 3 years of OS updates and 5 years of security updates. Everything about the 6a is better than the 3a, like the screen, speakers, & battery. The new OS is a lot like iOS FWIW. I'll figure the rest out later.
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The 3a was a US unlocked phone and so was the 6a direct from Google. I always pay cash unless I can make payments with zero percent interest. The $150 upgrade for an out-of-date model was a total no-brainer.
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Whoa, good deal. How do you get it?
I paid $200 for a Google 6a refurb - no trade but I'd send an old phone in for $50 no problem.
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I didn't do anything. In fact I was screwed regarding hardware and had always been planning to reinstall using LineageOS. But I got an email, which I recall being a few weeks after the phone was a brick with regards to updates. And I followed through. All I can say is to wait until the phone is dead as far as Google is concerned and hope for an upgrade option.
And FWIW, I seriously wonder what happened to my old phone once Google got it.
Re:Too bad the update policy isn't retroactive (Score:4, Insightful)
Gotta to squeeze out new purchases from previous Pixel owners somehow.
Retroactively extending the update lifetime is hard, because you also need to ensure that all of the manufacturers of all of the contained components will also provide support for the extended lifetime.
This, by the way, is the reason the Pixels 1-5 only got three years of support, because they could only get three years of support from the SoC vendor. Starting with the Pixel 6, Google switched to its own silicon, and that's what enabled the shift to five years of support, but only five years were ensured. With the Pixel 8, vendors had to be chosen and contracted for seven years of support.
Related: Anyone remember the Galaxy Nexus? That device was fantastic (for its time) but particularly short-lived because it used an SoC from Texas Instruments, and TI dropped its whole SoC division, abruptly killing all support for its chips. Apparently its customers (including Samsung & Google) hadn't specifically contracted a longer support term, so they were SOL.
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I decided for some reason to break my policy of not reading AC replies this morning. I'm glad I did! Good questions/comments.
What kind of software support from the vendor does Google typically need? Is it mainly for security fixes or for bugs in functionality?
Both, but especially security fixes. It's not that uncommon, though, that new system features require tweaks to vendor-provided software layers, or at least vendor support in debugging why new features aren't working, since all of the low-level software is opaque. I think many software developers apply the Windows / desktop/server Linux mental model when thinking about the relationshi
"7 years" != "whopping" (Score:2)
When it comes to security updates, 7 years from first-sale date should be considered the low end of "normal," not "whopping."
Re: "7 years" != "whopping" (Score:3)
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When it comes to security updates, 7 years from first-sale date should be considered the low end of "normal," not "whopping."
Agree 100% with you, but is whopping compared to previous support comitments from google (and other android makers, fairphone excluded).
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"Should be" is probably true, but not reflective of the real world. "Whopping" is perfectly accurate, based on the cumulative android history.
7 years does indeed = whopping in this context.
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Do we have stats on how many seven year old phones are alive?
LineageOS proves that Amdroid's HAL work in the past few years was successful and manufacturers are now choosing obsolescence.
I just updated a 2015 Pixel Tablet to the Android 15 master tip.
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When it comes to security updates, 7 years from first-sale date should be considered the low end of "normal," not "whopping."
Should be, true, but this is an ecosystem in which 2-3 years is standard, and lots of device makers don't even provide that. No one, until now, offers seven years. Not even Apple. Some Apple devices have gotten that much support, or even a little longer, but Apple doesn't make any commitments.
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No one, until now, offers seven years.
The open source community does. The original Pixel (and many others) supported by LineageOS is now 7 years old this month and is still supported. https://download.lineageos.org/devices/sailfish/builds [lineageos.org]
If you buy products without open source support, expect less.
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No one, until now, offers seven years.
The open source community does. The original Pixel (and many others) supported by LineageOS is now 7 years old this month and is still supported. https://download.lineageos.org/devices/sailfish/builds [lineageos.org] If you buy products without open source support, expect less.
LineageOS et al are awesome, but they don't really provide what OEMs call "support". They can't. They are incapable of fixing security bugs in vendor components, for example, which means that those old devices running the latest Android version have scads of publicly known and exploitable security vulnerabilities.
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Look through the Android security bulletins and you're certain to find CVEs relevant to your device that don't involve the OS at all. Vulnerabilities in the modem, for example. Without patches for the low-level issues, the OS can do nothing, and Lineage doesn't try (I speak to the Lineage devs regularly and they recognize this issue).
A fully-patched vendor-supported device has vulnerabilities, of course, but it doesn't generally have published vulnerabilities. Nation states paying millions for 0days can g
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Vulnerabilities in the modem, for example.
You really don't have to tell me what kind of vulnerabilities can't be worked around. These vulnerabilities don't show up every day either. For every other kind of vulnerability, open source provides the best long term support, support you eventually won't get from vendors.
Not every day, no, but every few years. And if you're using a phone that's 7+ years old, it almost certainly has at least one vulnerability like that.
Nice but (Score:2)
Not only more OS than iPhone, is also PUBLIC (Score:4, Insightful)
Rememeber that apple DOES NOT PUBLISH official support guidance. Meaning that, the iOS 11~16 timeline that TFS quotes is a post-facto figure.
An iPhone buyer does not know officialy how many OS updates the phone will receive when they buy a phone, instead, has to rely on past behaviour from apple, and there are some ignoble examples where the support window was less.
With the pixel 8, on the other hand, when you buy, you know EXACTLY AND OFFICIALY how many OS upgrades are left. And that Officiality is invaluable in certain verticals.
I use androd myself for my devices, but My PC and Laptops are Macs, no this is not android fanboyism or apple bashing. Is simply the reality/facts:
In PCs apple has no official guidelines on support duration, while Microsoft does.
In Celphones, apple has no oficial gidelines on support duration, while Google (and other android makers) do.
What are they promising, really? (Score:3)
Historical behaviour is actually better in this context. They say 7 years of updates, but what that means is open to interpretation. They aren't guaranteeing anything. You don't know that "all' security issues will be fixed. You don't know what features of a new update will be unavailable, (i.e. internal kill switches based on model). They could half-ass the releases horribly for this model and still meet their promise.
I'll bet when the rubber meets the road on this one, you'll find it looks a lot like Appl
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Historical behaviour is actually better in this context. They say 7 years of updates, but what that means is open to interpretation. They aren't guaranteeing anything. You don't know that "all' security issues will be fixed. You don't know what features of a new update will be unavailable, (i.e. internal kill switches based on model). They could half-ass the releases horribly for this model and still meet their promise.
I'll bet when the rubber meets the road on this one, you'll find it looks a lot like Apple's level of commitment to the models. It would already be a major improvement, so I'm not in any way mocking it. But don't expect "better".
If in your opinion the company (apple in this example) strays away from past behaviour, you can not sue. If you consider that the company (google in this example) strayed from official behaviour/promises, you can try to sue or get a class action going. In certain verticals, that's very valuable.
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By "in certain verticals", I assume you are implying the old corporate chestnut of "a throat to choke". Well, this ain't it. Near as I can tell, they haven't actually promised anything in detail. Like I said, "7 years of updates" is meaningless. The only thing you might be able to hold them to is making parts available that long.
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That would get them into trouble in Europe, as Apple discovered. When Apple crippled older iPhones with software updates, they ended up paying out to consumers when the regulator took them to task over it.
In Europe if you advertise something like "7 years of updates", that's what you had better deliver. Even if you put a little asterisk there, if you don't meet what a reasonable consumer would expect then you are going to get into trouble.
The principle in the UK is known as the "red hand rule", which basica
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I'd rather rely on actual pst behavior as a good indication of what to expect than future promises from anyone with a spotty past record. Google has been better than most other handset manufacturers, but they have no track record to suggest I should be 100% confident on their ability to deliver on this promise. I don't even know if I'd take a straight up bet for even money that in seven years this device will have seen the promised seven years of updates.
If in your opinion the company (apple in this example) strays away from past behaviour, you can not sue. If you consider that the company (google in this example) strayed from official behaviour/promises, you can try to sue or get a class action going. In certain verticals, that's very valuable.
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i don't follow. according to your very own reasoning ...
that Officiality is invaluable in certain verticals.
I use androd myself for my devices, but My PC and Laptops are Macs, no this is not android fanboyism or apple bashing. Is simply the reality/facts:
In PCs apple has no official guidelines on support duration, while Microsoft does.
... shouldn't you be staying away from apple and using ms windows on your desktop and laptop (if not linux)?
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i don't follow. according to your very own reasoning ...
that Officiality is invaluable in certain verticals.
I use androd myself for my devices, but My PC and Laptops are Macs, no this is not android fanboyism or apple bashing. Is simply the reality/facts:
In PCs apple has no official guidelines on support duration, while Microsoft does.
... shouldn't you be staying away from apple and using ms windows on your desktop and laptop (if not linux)?
I use the tool best suited to the task at hand, after balancing the pros and cons of each. Right now, that tool for me is an intel mac with bootcamp win10 (while that is feasible), in the future, it will be a Win11 PC.
But the fact that I have been using macs since 2009 does not mean I can not give credit where credit is due, to microsoft in this case, for having a clear cut and official support roadmap.
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Yeah, I don't believe in the longevity of anything of Google's until it actually happens. They've shitcanned so many products and services that people LIKED and USED, and you expect me to believe that they're gonna follow through on this? Why?
Now if they told me that they'd push ads out to those phones for the next 7 years, I'd believe it. So as long as those updates include a better way to track you or advertise to you, sure. Otherwise, all bets are off.
Not really a feature. (Score:3)
Re:Not really a feature. (Score:4, Informative)
In 7 years time, the battery will be wasted, and the technology will be outdated. Not many people will hold onto the phone for that long, unless they are keeping to a strict budget, in which case, they are not paying the high prices the Pixel 8 requires.
Most people using a Pixel 8 when it falls out of support will have purchased it used, not new. The main value to most buyers of new flagship phones is that the longer support term means higher resale value, because the long support term makes the devices appealing to a larger set of secondhand buyers.
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In 7 years time, the battery will be wasted, and the technology will be outdated. Not many people will hold onto the phone for that long, unless they are keeping to a strict budget, in which case, they are not paying the high prices the Pixel 8 requires.
Most people using a Pixel 8 when it falls out of support will have purchased it used, not new. The main value to most buyers of new flagship phones is that the longer support term means higher resale value, because the long support term makes the devices appealing to a larger set of secondhand buyers.
And the majority of used phone buyers will be in developing countries where phones are often refurbished (meaning a new battery) and put on sale. As the statutory warranty is gone, there is little downside to this.
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In 7 years time, the battery will be wasted, and the technology will be outdated. Not many people will hold onto the phone for that long, unless they are keeping to a strict budget, in which case, they are not paying the high prices the Pixel 8 requires.
Most people using a Pixel 8 when it falls out of support will have purchased it used, not new. The main value to most buyers of new flagship phones is that the longer support term means higher resale value, because the long support term makes the devices appealing to a larger set of secondhand buyers.
And the majority of used phone buyers will be in developing countries where phones are often refurbished (meaning a new battery) and put on sale. As the statutory warranty is gone, there is little downside to this.
Yep. But now those refurbished devices will have security patches and version updates.
There is a lot of sentiment in the Android team that this is the right and responsible way to approach low-income users. There are two basic options (plus space in between):
1. The market provides new devices with a range of device qualities, from high-end flagships with good specs and moderate-quality components by vendors that will provide good support to low-end, ultra-cheap devices that are barely capable of runnin
iFixit to the rescue (Score:3)
In 7 years time, the battery will be wasted, and the technology will be outdated.
Google announced a partnership with iFixit for the Pixel 8. So I expect (hope) a lot of second-hand units will be kept running for the full 7 years.
As for the tech being outdated, I think mobile phone tech has mostly plateaued. We're seeing that in the most recent generations of iPhone and Pixel, where the feature announcements are primarily about software changes, with hardware enhancements (Tensor chip) to support those. For primary applications, most people are satisfied with the level of performance and
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I wonder what the iFixIt score for the 8 will be. Google's scores for phones have been slowly creeping up, but mostly because the original Pixel was such a nightmare to work on. Most battery swap places include the price of a new screen in the service, as the screen needs to be removed and is very likely to crack.
That said, if you look after your battery it can last 7 years. Keep it between 20% and 80% SoC, and charge at 5W. The odd rapid or 100% charge is okay, necessary even, but most of your charging sho
This is awesome news, FINALLY! (Score:2)
The main arguments holding me back from ever buying an Android were the usual bloatware that Samsung, Xiaomi, Nokia etc are shoving onto their phones and the highly dubious update situation beyond maybe 2 years or so.
Finally the vanilla Google phones solve BOTH of those points!