Aussies Angry Over Being Asked to Use QR Codes at Restaurants (news.com.au) 273
Long-time Slashdot reader smooth wombat writes:
: A recent social media post by an Aussie received a deluge of replies and comments. His comment? "I'm so f***ing tired of 'tech' being used to solve an 'issue' but only making everything worse and more inconvenient for everybody," they wrote.
His comment was in response to going to a restaurant and having only a QR code to order from — literally a menu at the table with only the QR code on it. The app required to order from it "proceeded to charge a 6.5% venue surcharge, a 2% payment processing fee, and then had the audacity to ask for a tip (10%, 15%, 25%) as the cherry on top".
From Australia's News.com.au: Hundreds of others enthusiastically agreed and many added they also didn't like being asked to enter their personal details. "You're waiting your own table and paying an extra fee for the privilege. It's f***ed," one person responded. "It's also a big stinking FU to anyone old or not tech savvy. All just to hoover up your data," another added.
Some, however, shared they preferred using QR codes to order their food — they removed the need to move to order more and limited engagement with staff. "I actually like the QR ordering because I don't like people, but the surcharges and tipping can f*** off," one said. "I love the QR codes — don't need to leave the table to order another beer," someone else wrote...
Jonathan Holmes-Ross, owner of board game restaurant, The Lost Dice in Adelaide told news.com.au that the use of QR code ordering had let his eatery "reduce costs by around 25%... We no longer have to take orders, work out bills and manually take payments," he said. "This gives our wait staff more time to look after our customers, and the kitchen has excellent order information as the accuracy of the orders is great. We now have very few mistakes saving us time and waste. We can also mark items that have run out instantly on the app by using stock levels, again avoiding the disappointment of (the) customer."
His comment was in response to going to a restaurant and having only a QR code to order from — literally a menu at the table with only the QR code on it. The app required to order from it "proceeded to charge a 6.5% venue surcharge, a 2% payment processing fee, and then had the audacity to ask for a tip (10%, 15%, 25%) as the cherry on top".
From Australia's News.com.au: Hundreds of others enthusiastically agreed and many added they also didn't like being asked to enter their personal details. "You're waiting your own table and paying an extra fee for the privilege. It's f***ed," one person responded. "It's also a big stinking FU to anyone old or not tech savvy. All just to hoover up your data," another added.
Some, however, shared they preferred using QR codes to order their food — they removed the need to move to order more and limited engagement with staff. "I actually like the QR ordering because I don't like people, but the surcharges and tipping can f*** off," one said. "I love the QR codes — don't need to leave the table to order another beer," someone else wrote...
Jonathan Holmes-Ross, owner of board game restaurant, The Lost Dice in Adelaide told news.com.au that the use of QR code ordering had let his eatery "reduce costs by around 25%... We no longer have to take orders, work out bills and manually take payments," he said. "This gives our wait staff more time to look after our customers, and the kitchen has excellent order information as the accuracy of the orders is great. We now have very few mistakes saving us time and waste. We can also mark items that have run out instantly on the app by using stock levels, again avoiding the disappointment of (the) customer."
BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
BS fees = zero tip
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
BS fees = walk out of restaurant without ordering anything.
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Interesting)
Any non-tipping culture should fight tipping, tooth and nail. For waitstaff, it means a pay cut, while the tips often are pooled, with the venue perhaps dipping into the till. For customers, there is no proper amount to tip, so 15% which worked for someone older may be considered insulting, while someone else doesn't like spending 30% on every order, and will go elsewhere or eat/drink at home.
Here in the US, the ipad is almost everywhere, where for almost anything, even some places with merchandise purchases, a tip is asked. This gets old. Just hike prices, and pay workers what they need to be paid, and not allow that the government has almost zero hourly wage for tipped workers. Tipped workers need the same minimum wage as everyone else.
This friction about tipping is only going to get worse, as the economy contracts.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Interesting)
Be sure to leave a review, as well.
"No idea what the food is like, since we left when we found out they charge their customers to be you own waiter."
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And then the restaurant successfully petitions them to remove the review because you did not order anything and therefore you were not a customer.
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Don't ever try to eat out in Los Angeles. Almost nobody has their own parking, and the lots will charge you as much as the meal costs for a couple of hours of parking. That's pretty much universal. San Diego isn't as bad, but it's not far behind.
(Orange County, next door, on the other hand, most cities won't give out business licenses and occupancy permits unless there's enough parking for the expected lever of business.)
Stupid Fees (Score:3)
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:4, Insightful)
BS fees = walk out of restaurant without ordering anything.
BS QR-code-only ordering = walk out of restaurant without ordering anything.
My phone doesn't do QR codes. That's part of my privacy-centric, security-centric phone setup, and I went to great deal of trouble to make that setup happen. My phone is for MY use - not for the use of a restaurant that can't get its shit together enough to either provide a paper menu or make its OWN devices available for e-ordering.
My privacy and security in return for a meal that I'm paying money for? Fuck no. An automated cash grab that I have to jump through hoops - on my own device - to thwart? Double-fuck-no. I hope these restaurants fail hard and fast.
Re: (Score:3)
Agreed on making devices available. I just ordered from a small pastry shop this morning, and the only way they would give me a receipt, was through email or text, no paper receipts available. Nope, not giving away my cell or email number just to get a receipt.
On the other hand, privacy is more or less an illusion. Even if you use a dumbphone with no internet whatsoever, cell towers still can and do track your location and identity. So while the restaurant may not be able to directly identify you through yo
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:4, Interesting)
Even if you use a dumbphone with no internet whatsoever, cell towers still can and do track your location and identity. So while the restaurant may not be able to directly identify you through your phone, such tracking is still possible. And if you use a credit or debit card to pay for your purchases, the restaurant can indeed track your purchases and connect it to your identity, and can share that tracking data with marketers. I'm not sure it's really possible to live anonymously in this world, unless you totally eliminate all technology and live in the wilderness.
Sure, my cellular provider knows roughly where I am. But I almost always have mobile data, WiFi, and Bluetooth turned off, so stores wanting to track me are out of luck.
Also, I still use cash quite a bit. When I do use debit or credit, yes, my identity is blown. But marketers still have limited access to me. I run uBlock in my browser, I don't watch TV, I get remarkably little targeted advertising in snail mail, and the only spam email I get is a small amount of expected crap at an address dedicated to that purpose. So although I'm far from anonymous in the sense you mentioned, I'm not low-hanging fruit when compared with most people today.
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
Fees just for the privilege of eating there? How about I pay nothing and go somewhere else. Is this some sort of suicide plot by some restaurant owners?
Re: (Score:2)
Venues owned by dining group Pacific Concepts – previously part of Rockpool Dining Group – have begun stinging customers with a 6.5 per cent “venue surcharge”.
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Interesting)
Nope, it's not. There is an increasing number of venues with QR codes at the table linked to the "me&u" ordering app. me&u is "Bringing back the tip [meandu.com] in a culture that has never traditionally tipped wait staff - because, unlike the USA, wait staff in Australia have always been paid proper wages and so haven't needed to collect tips just to survive. "Brining back the tip" in Australia is a bald-faced lie.
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Australia doesn't tip. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is Australia. We don't tip (unless its a very high end restaurant).
Tipping is almost a uniquely North American concept designed to allow restaurants to underpay their staff and thus hide the true cost of your meal.
In fact the price shown in Australia must include all taxes, unlike USA that loves to add all sorts of fees to the advertised price.. like state tax, resort fees, mandatory tips, etc etc.
Re: Australia doesn't tip. (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't care how YOU do it on your island on the other side of the planet, either; pull your weight and pay wait staff a proper wage.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
To participate in a tradition you do not agree with is to legitimize the tradition.
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Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:BS fees = zero tip (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry to post again, but as you know one cannot edit their comments here. Anyway so I looked and found one of their restaurants that had a normal menu and not just a QR code thingy: https://thebeerhaus.com.au/wp-... [thebeerhaus.com.au] and then I found this at the bottom:
CREDIT CARDS INCUR A PROCESSING FEE OF 1.7% TO 2.7%. DEBIT AND EFTPOS CARD INCUR A PROCESSING FEE OF 0.95%. EXTERNAL PAYMENT APPS INCUR ADDITIONAL FEES. 10% SURCHARGE APPLIES ON SUNDAYS, 15% ON PUBLIC HOLIDAYS, 5% SERVICE FEE APPLIES MONDAY TO SATURDAY
So they have up to 15% surcharge on public holidays. So no that is not some app-fee, that is them taking an actual "we serve you food" fee
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US federal law only requires 1.5x hourly wage for hours >40. It's up to each establishment whether they want to pay extra based on shift, and typically weird hours are just part of being a restaurant worker.
Federal law is min. $7.25/hour, and here in NC only $2.13/hour for tipped employees.
I hate places like this (Score:4, Insightful)
I also never go back to them.
So far, two brew pubs have done it and one is already out of business. Our favorite Thai place? Never went again. I don't go out to eat for the takeout experience.
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and one is already out of business
Correlation != causation. For every person like you who doesn't like it, there are people who do, especially in a brewpub where waiting or queueing to get more beer is sort of antithetical to the whole point of going. The restaurant industry has high attrition rates for businesses. I'm not surprised you know two brewpubs and one of them closed. That's kind of par for the course for restaurants. They fail at significantly higher rates than most small businesses.
Re:I hate places like this (Score:5, Insightful)
For every person like you who doesn't like it, there are people who do
I am not a technophobe, and I like ordering from a kiosk, my phone, or anything else that allows me to avoid talking to a human.
But paying an extra fee? Entering my personal contact info? No. That's not okay.
Re:I hate places like this (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly this...
The automated ordering system is CHEAPER than employing a human waiter to take your order and process your payment. You should be receiving a discount for using it, not being charged more.
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and one is already out of business
Correlation != causation.
More likely two effects from a common cause: incompetence at running a restaurant.
For every person like you who doesn't like it, there are people who do, especially in a brewpub where waiting or queueing to get more beer is sort of antithetical to the whole point of going.
The question being, which group is larger? You don't know any more than he does.
I'll bet a number of restaurant owners are finding out right now.
When done well, itâ(TM)s not bad (Score:2)
QR codes alone are awful. Youâ(TM)re looking at your phone screen trying to engage with the menu. I have seen it done well where youâ(TM)re given an iPad and place your orders on that (without surcharges or suggested tipping).
Here in Australia youâ(TM)ve got to have mind bendingly good service before tipping might be done.
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At least my phone screen is backlit. Most places these days, the keep the lights so dim I have to use the flashlight on the phone to be able to read the menu in the first place. The same is true for most of my friends. (And don't get me started on the obsession they have for decor that involves hard, shiny surfaces that reflect sound, producing an ambient noise level that literally causes damage to your hearing [lww.com] (and far more so to the staff).
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QR code is orthogonal to app. I've seen at least three different uses of QR codes by restaurants. By far the most common one where I live is that the QR code simply links to an online copy of the menu, and you order by talking to the waiter. At the place where I play board games, the QR code is printed on the paper menu and links to the restaurant's WhatsApp number: I'm not a great fan of WhatsApp, but network effects make it unavoidable round here anyway. The third one, at the place where we had the compan
Re: When done well, itâ(TM)s not bad (Score:4, Insightful)
I have to say I don't like this QR thing in restaurants. Mostly it's because when you first arrive everybody has their eyes glued to their phones rather than talking and making eye contact. It's a bad start to a meal. People don't need encouragement to periodically go back to their phones throughout a meal these days.
Like everything else it's a balancing act (Score:2)
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No balance at all, lazy money grubbing restaurants with QR codes will lose business, fast food or slow.
I tell you what I want, you bring me food, I pay. Nothing more will do.
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There's a couple of pubs near my office that we've had work functions at. Each have capacity for 250+ people. For these sorts of places, I can see if they were full during an evening or weekend lunch and playing extremely loud music it would be difficult to order the traditional way.
But to be honest, It's a pain in the neck - you have to register using some dodgy looking website payment service that requires your credit card each time and peck through a dozen options to order a simple drink or meal option.
B
Re:Like everything else it's a balancing act (Score:5, Insightful)
Online menus are usually looked at on a phone so now I have to peck through a menu for each page, each page requires scrolling to see the entire thing so now I can't flip back and forth between paper pages to compare items quickly, if I forget my phone or the battery is dead they better have a paper one available. I find if you ask they have regular menus still available.
The biggest annoyance is when they have a website or FB page and no menu or, better yet, to see the menu you have to fake an online order. Want to lose my business? Make it a struggle to see what you offer.
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if I forget my phone or the battery is dead
Do people still run into those issues? Wow.
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The hassle of requiring you to have a phone that is charged and has internet connection alone is already an obstacle.
Also its just worse to navigate etc..
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The lack of charge or internet connection is easily solved by the restaurant having chargers and wifi. This is where a charging standard comes in too, as it's much easier for the restaurant to provide a single standard charger than 10 different ones.
Some places have wireless charging pads on the tables, just put your phone there and it charges.
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There's a pretty simple way for this to shake out. If it ends up being highly unpopular, people will stop going to restaurants that don't offer a more traditional option. It's not like there are no competing restaurants you can choose among. The one point I'd raise as a sticking point is the issue of privacy and security. Customers should not be put at unnecessary risk if they don't wish to use a third party app that requires too much personal information. You should be able to pay as easily as with an
Re:Like everything else it's a balancing act (Score:4, Interesting)
My wife and I recently went to a high-ish end restaurant, they had a QR code, we scanned it with our phones, it was a redirect to their mobile-optimized webpage. Basically a virtual menu.
We liked it. There was no surcharge, no hidden fee, and we could bookmark the page for future use, such as online ordering (they also offer that).
Oh, and we were served by an actual waiter, and we tipped generously because he was a nice, helpful fella, who did customize our order on request at no extra cost.
Re: (Score:2)
"an authentic "old" dining experience "
Exactly. I go to restaurants for a social experience*, to engage and enjoy food with my fellow diners. Discussing the menu is part of that.
Fine food without the social aspect is kind of an empty experience.
If it even works (Score:5, Interesting)
I was at a restaurant here that does something similar. Due to my not very paranoid security settings their web-app did not even work. The others had to order for me.
Re: (Score:3)
Due to my not very paranoid security settings their web-app did not even work.
During the last few years, I've occasionally run across "web apps" that only work in Chrome. I dislike apps that try to vacuum up my info anyway; but there's no way on earth I'm going to put any info at all into a form that was put together by someone who can't even make a standard cross-browser web form.
Re:If it even works (Score:4, Funny)
Cross browser? You mean there is some "other" browser? Google told me there is only one browser.
Re:If it even works (Score:4, Funny)
He likes being anonymous when he goes online and his security settings reflect that. You are posting as an AC so if you don't understand that, you really have a problem.
What (Score:2)
"I don't need to leave the table to order another beer"
Isn't that true at most restaurants?
Is this just post-covid "zero contact" momentum that nobody actually wants, or are the kids these days permanently deranged to think like this?
Re: (Score:2)
It means that you don't have a server attending to your table.
Re: What (Score:3)
The pub experience in the UK often sees food being ordered at the bar. The best bit is that there's no hassle at the end of the meal: you just leave (assuming you did't start a tab)
Re:What (Score:5, Informative)
Isn't that true at most restaurants?
Depends on the restaurants. A very large number of pubs, especially in Australia do not wait on tables. You get up and order at the bar and bring your number back with you. I literally just walked out of a restaurant like that 15min ago. The options: 1) go and line up at the bar, order, pay, take your beer with you and have your food delivered. or 2) scan a QR code and have everything delivered to you.
Re: (Score:2)
This is true in many US bars and brewpubs as well, and has been for decades. If you want food or drinks, you go to the bar.
Of course the restaurant saves 25% in costs (Score:2, Insightful)
The Lost Dice in Adelaide told news.com.au that the use of QR code ordering had let his eatery "reduce costs by around 25%... We no longer have to take orders, work out bills and manually take payments," he said. "This gives our wait staff more time to look after our customers, and the kitchen has excellent order information as the accuracy of the orders is great. We now have very few mistakes saving us time and waste. We can also mark items that have run out instantly on the app by using stock levels, again avoiding the disappointment of (the) customer."
Well of course! This is not about service, this is about saving restaurant owners money. You get what you pay for. Want good service? You'll probably have to pay that 25%. You want cheap food? You're probably going to have to order using a QR code. "But I want excellent service at fast food prices!" Sorry folks, it doesn't work that way.
Re: (Score:2)
Want good service? You'll probably have to pay that 25%.
Fine by me. I'd much rather have proper service, and leave a tip on top of that for it, than have some dodgy app selling my purchasing history to every scammy psychopath out there.
You want cheap food? You're probably going to have to order using a QR code.
And pay the extra 25% anyway
Did you even read the summary?
Re: (Score:2)
With all the extra fees tagged onto the QR code I don't think 'at fast food prices' really applies.
as seen on tumblr (Score:3)
Re: as seen on tumblr (Score:3)
Tumblr wants me to download an app
Re: (Score:2)
The irony being I received a modal dialogue inviting me to sign in.
IASIP (Score:2)
This reminds me of the "Paddy Wagon" episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where Dennis ends up pulling a gun on customers to force them to use an app instead of just being able to pay for beer in cash. "I want you to get the full experience!"
Venue surcharge? Processing fee? (Score:2)
Did ticketbastard open a restaurant?
Tipping in Australia? (Score:2)
I thought tipping was one of those customs that was peculiar to the USA, and that tipping in Australia wasn't a thing? And then on top of it to ask for a USA-sized tip for a reduced level of personal service under which you have to send your own order in to the kitchen.
I am also sad to hear that these BS fees are taking hold in .au as a way of keeping menu prices ostensibly the same and then sticking it to the customer at the end.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Outside of the US tipping is not mandatory
It's not mandatory in the US either. Just expected, and with a minimum wage and tax structure that really screws over the server if you don't. But it's always an option.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I suspect that this place used an app from an American company. Tipping is not really a thing in Australia, though it is sometimes given for good service. I suspect the people upset about the QR codes are actually more upset about the tip and fees attached rather than the QR code itself.
Sample size (Score:2)
100s out of a population of 26million people. No Aussies largely couldn't give a rats arse about QR codes.
On the flip side asking for tips when you're not given service, that's something most Australians definitely rally against.
Civil Disobedience (Score:5, Funny)
Always carry a sharpie to colour in random squares on the QR codes.
Petty? Yes. Borderline vandalism? maybe. They're usually stickers and replaced often anyway. Good for the soul? Absolutely.
Re: Civil Disobedience (Score:2)
Plus 10 mod.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If you really want to be petty, put your own URL sticker over it. It's trivial to make a QR, chrome has a generator built straight into the right-click menu, the URL for whatever page you're on.
Rickroll if you're gentle. Goatse if you're not.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not borderline vandalism. It is vandalism. Own it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Sharpie?
How about an exploit for a QR code implementation flaw on a sticker... or a few stickers?
I mean, why should the person who happens to sit at my table be the only one who gets to complain?
Re:Civil Disobedience (Score:5, Insightful)
You should print a sticker with an URL to a page that explains all the ways how QR code menus are bad for the customers, and then requires the customer to click a link to the original site.
Not only are QR codes hauling the work onto you, they codes are also a potential security risk. Malicious QR codes are a thing!
People need stop trusting any and all QR code they come across.
25% lower costs (Score:5, Insightful)
If your costs are reduced by 25%, why do you need to charge an additional 6% + 2%, and mandate tipping?
Also, if tipping is mandated, IT ISN'T TIPPING!
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
If your costs are reduced by 25%, why do you need to charge an additional 6% + 2%, and mandate tipping?
You're making assumptions, nothing more.
The assumptions you are making is that the fees didn't exist beforehand (yes there are plenty of shitty restaurants that charged fees like this before QR codes).
The assumptions you are making is that the tipping is mandated. TFS doesn't actually say it is, just that this is presented to the user in the form of a question, very likely with a passive aggressive "no thanks" button which I hope people are pressing so hard they borderline crack their phone screens.
The assu
Worst experience ever (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, the best way to get me to come to your restaurant is to make me immediately pissed off and hangry rather than just laminate a fucking piece of paper
Oh yeah (Score:2)
"I'm so f***ing tired of 'tech' being used to solve an 'issue' but only making everything worse and more inconvenient for everybody," they wrote.
Had to go to a minor emergency clinic today. So, 11 sheets of paper, and they SMS's the exact same forms to my phone to fill out as well. About an hour to fill out the paper and electronic forms, an hour sitting around. At two and a half hours the doctor strolled in for work at around noon-ish.
I wasn't even using my insurance because it's such a pain in the neck to get anything but "YOUR BILL IS DUE! PAY NOW!" out of them.
And I was in Australia about 30 years ago. I thought they don't tip there.
Tipping (Score:2)
Tipping is stupid and must be eradicated. If someone provides excellent service leave them a good review, and their management should compensate them. Tipping culture is dumb. People should go on a tipping strike or something to force companies to pay their workers properly and charge the correct amount upfront.
Oh, the fun we could have! (Score:2)
It would be a shame if one or more patrons of this restaurant changed random parts of a QR code or two. It would be even more of a shame if they knew exactly what changes to make in order to produce a desired result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA8hDldvfv0 [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:2)
It could be a good way to raise political awareness. The Lemon Party would certainly benefit from some advertising.
*Could* be a killer app, but isn't (Score:3)
A lot depends on how tech is implemented: does it make the user's life easier or more frustrating? Does it get out of the way or is it obnoxious? Does it offer something more compelling than the current situation? The developer actually needs to be able to look at it from the user's perspective, not slap together a MVP using generative AI just to rake in the dough. And the restaurant should have more carefully evaluated alternatives instead of being steamrollered by the marketing promises.
I have not seen e-menus when I've been eating out up to now, but a few features I'd love, that a paper menu can't (or doesn't) provide, include:
* Full description, including e.g. full ingredients list, nutritional info, sizing/weights, picture(s).
* Filterability: only show dishes suitable for my particular allergies / diet preferences / budget / whim.
* Modification options for dishes
* Call button for waiter, instead of the constant interruptions with "is everything allright?"
* Estimated Time of Arrival (even better if configurable, but synchronized with rest of table by default)
* Ordering more without having to find waiter and asking for the menu.
* Split bills
* advance ordering, seating capacity forecasts
But many of these will require some effort to set up (e.g. photographing dishes) or restructuring/formalizing processes in the kitchen. I doubt many restauranteurs have the required holistic vision required; they often come over as not-seeing-the-forrest-for-all-the-trees kind of people.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
* Call button for waiter, instead of the constant interruptions with "is everything allright?"
(emphasis added)
That is a distinctly North American (maybe just US) cultural phenomenon. Travel elsewhere, and you'll find that he waiter will not periodically interrupt your meal, but instead, you need to call them over when you want service. If the place is even halfway decent, the waiter will be there very shortly.
I strongly prefer the latter.
Apps to eat? (Score:3)
If they want to minimise staff then they can give each customer a tablet to order from. I have used that system a few times and it is fine.
QR codes & online ordering... (Score:5, Interesting)
Thankfully where I live, it's illegal to charge you extra "service charges" or "app fees." The price that's on the menu has to be the price you pay. Tips are truly an optional extra that most people don't pay & nobody really cares because there's a half decent minimum wage & semi-decent worker protections, i.e. most employers comply because the laws are mostly enforced. We don't have service staff begging & pandering for tips; There's no dignity for either staff or customers in that.
I sure as fuck won't scan an unknown QR code (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a security researcher. Can you even begin to imagine what kind of crap we have already done with bogus QR codes? Nothing's easier than printing a QR code onto a sticker and plastering it over the genuine one. And by the time you notice, it's too late. Your phone already processed that QR code and you, as a human, have NO way to even potentially know what the hell you're doing there.
I have a shirt with a QR code that exploited a flaw in a widely used code for QR code deciding in phones. That flaw is over 2 years old now, it got a pretty swift update, so by the time I had the shirt done, it should not have worked anymore with any phones. But to this day, I have people who try to take pictures of me wearing that shirt go "hey... my phone just rebooted".
And that's a fairly "harmless" implementation because i don't want to cause any damage, I just don't like it when people take a picture of me...
Re: I sure as fuck won't scan an unknown QR code (Score:3)
You're like those women who wear shirts with something written across their boobs and then act offended when someone stares at their tits.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm a security researcher. Can you even begin to imagine what kind of crap we have already done with bogus QR codes? Nothing's easier than printing a QR code onto a sticker and plastering it over the genuine one. And by the time you notice, it's too late. Your phone already processed that QR code and you, as a human, have NO way to even potentially know what the hell you're doing there.
Sounds like a great way to drive traffic to porn sites...
Re: (Score:3)
I prefer to direct them to pages where they can read how scanning strange QR codes may be dangerous to their cellphone security, i.e. for most people their online banking, mail and online purchase security.
save the QR code, fake order later ? (Score:3)
Just to mess with these QR code restaurants, what happens if you save the QR code, and order lavish meals when you are not at the restaurant ? I guess QR code contains the information of table number - there may be no one at the table now, or there may be some unfortunate diner.
I have seen that payment happens later, so such pranks shouldn't cost money.
All About Tipping in the USA (Score:5, Interesting)
This lengthy post will explain for our readers outside the US, how tipping works and why we're upset. Also includes the dope on food delivery app services.
n the US we tip (usually 15-20%) for a waiter (or bartender, or barista). We tip because the waiters are paid way, Way, WAY below the legal minimum wage. They are expected to live off their tips.
You also tip delivery drivers. They're getting minimum wage, but they have to pay for their vehicle, gas, tromping through the snow, etc.
But there are also restaurants (fast food and casual)where you don't get any service, none whatsoever. Instead, you walk up to a counter, tell the person your order, and pay for it. They announce (yell) when it's ready and you pick it up, find a table, sit down, and eat. If you need anything else, like another drink, you go back to the counter and repeat. When you're done, you return your plates and throw out any trash.
There is no service whatsoever, and the person at the counter taking your order is being paid at least minimum wage. So one would not tip at such a restaurant. These are places like McDonalds, taco, pizza, or sandwich shops, etc.
The trend over the last few years is to demand a tip at such places. It started with putting tip jars at the counter. With the advent of ubiquitous touchscreen payment pads, it's everywhere. You pay when you order, and they sometimes verbally demand the tip, and they watch you put it in. Sometimes, there isn't even even a person at the counter to take your order - you punch it in yourself on the pad - and it still wants a tip. Even if it's just a take-away place (no seating).
For the latter half of the 20th century, a good tip was 15%. Then it was 18%. Now they want 20% or even more. And the amount of tip used to be based on the menu price of the food. Now they want the 20% based on the after-tax amount, which is another 3-12%. The menu prices track inflation, as does the minimum wage, so why has the tip gone up by 5-10 percentage points on top of that?
Additionally (yes, there's more!) estaurants, both the no-service and the waiter-service variety, have in the last year invented new "Service Fee" surcharges of 3-15%. This not a tip and is just additional profit that goes to the restaurant owners. These fees not on the menu but are just a surprise that you see on your bill (if you study it) at the end of the meal. They are doing this instead of raising menu prices. This feels like a scam and a ripoff. They should just be honest and raise their prices!
Now, some states have laws that waiters get at least the federal or state minimum wage. Those waiters (who are thus getting perhaps eight times the amount of normal waitstaff rate) still want their same tips, too.
This is why Americans are getting upset about our tipping culture and think it's out of control.
Finally let's talk about those delivery services like Doordash, Uber Eats, Grubhub. Historically, there was just Pizza and Chinese restaurants who had employees to deliver food ordered over the phone. When rideshare came along we got service companies and their apps. Which exploded in popularity during the pandemic.
The price of items on the app's menu is padded higher than the actual restaurant menu That's the starting point of what I pay, and the restaurant doesn't even know about it. It's just pure profit for the delivery company. They also surcharge the restaurant, screwing them with a huge percentage (say 15-30%) of the restaurant's menu price and they take that, too. do they are profiting on both ends. Then they also charge me the customer a "Delivery fee", and also an added "Service fee". Altogether, in addition to screwing the restaurant for 30%, they're screwing me by about 30-40%. I also pay tax, which is a higher amount since it's based on all the above. All of this wouldld be even higher, but I get reduced delivery and service fees because I pay a monthly delivery subscription. Yes, it costs double or more to order food on these apps!
Then of course the driver
QR codes are not PCI compliant (Score:3)
QR codes are not PCI compliant because they serve as an unauthenticated pointer to PAN entry. Anyone can replace QR codes to conduct a MITM of the legitimate order system and compromise cardholder data.
How soon until the QR codes get hacked? (Score:3)
Haven't most of us taken security training that discusses phishing? How are QR codes any different from a threat perspective?
I'm with the old folks on this one (Score:3)
QR code for menu is.
Take out phone
unlock phone
launch app
scan code
open URL
scroll around / pinch and zoom around
vs
read the menu
I prefer the latter
LEAVE (Score:4, Interesting)
> "You're waiting your own table and paying an extra fee for the privilege. It's f***ed,"
And, yet, you still go there?
My solution would be simple. I would ask for management, tell them I am not going to install an "app" to order food, and tell them once they return to sanity, they can have my money again, and then leave. If it is a chain, I would make sure to comment to someone at "corporate" as well, including indicating I will be telling all my friends about their silly policy.
Similar thing with one place that INSISTED I give them my private cell number to wait for a table. I asked for management, they just tried to explain why, I told them we wouldn't be back until/unless that changed. I don't give out my mobile number to ANY business. It did change.
It can be shockingly effective. Businesses do NOT want to lose customers. Especially if negativity spreads through word-of-mouth. The main problem is that too many people silently go along with this crap.
>"Some, however, shared they preferred using QR codes to order their food"
Then it could be made OPTIONAL. What a concept: More choice.
I don't own a damn smartphone (Score:3)
Yea, I don't own a smartphone. Does that make me a non-person? They don't want my business?
Is it law that one has to own a smart phone? I know the cell phone manufacturers would love to make that law.
Even for smellphone lovers, is your precious phone ALWAYS working? Forgot to charge it? Got hacked again? Camera gunked? Internet access not working at that moment?
Why add those dependencies to the simple task of ordering from a menu?
Right, they probably make more money mining your personal data.
my genius improvement beyond this (Score:3)
I applaude the advancement of using QR codes. In fact, I plan to to extend things at my restaurants by requiring the customers to go to the kitchen and cook their own meals, then serve themselves. In this they may opt to tip themselves, thus saving money.
What did PT Barnum say? Something about one born every minute?
Re: (Score:2)