Blaming Social Media, ACM Publication Argues Computing 'Has Blood On Its Hands' (acm.org) 121
Long-time Slashdot reader theodp writes: In the January 2024 Communications of the ACM, Rice University professor and former CACM Editor-in-Chief Moshe Y. Vardi minces no words in Computing, You Have Blood on Your Hands!. He argues that the unintended consequences of the rise of social media and mobile computing include hate mongering on a global scale and a worldwide youth mental health crisis.
"How did the technology that we considered 'cool' just a decade ago become an assault weapon used to hurt, traumatize, and even kill vulnerable people?" Vardi asks. "Looking back at my past columns, one can see the forewarnings. Our obsession with efficiency came at the expense of resilience. In the name of efficiency, we aimed at eliminating all friction. In the name of efficiency, it became desirable to move fast and break things, and we allowed the technology industry to become dominated by a very small number of mega corporations. It is time for all computing professionals to accept responsibility for computing's current state. To use Star Wars metaphors, we once considered computing as the 'Rebels,' but it turns out that computing is the 'Empire.' Admitting we have a problem is a necessary first step toward addressing the problems computing has created."
Examples cited in the piece include:
"How did the technology that we considered 'cool' just a decade ago become an assault weapon used to hurt, traumatize, and even kill vulnerable people?" Vardi asks. "Looking back at my past columns, one can see the forewarnings. Our obsession with efficiency came at the expense of resilience. In the name of efficiency, we aimed at eliminating all friction. In the name of efficiency, it became desirable to move fast and break things, and we allowed the technology industry to become dominated by a very small number of mega corporations. It is time for all computing professionals to accept responsibility for computing's current state. To use Star Wars metaphors, we once considered computing as the 'Rebels,' but it turns out that computing is the 'Empire.' Admitting we have a problem is a necessary first step toward addressing the problems computing has created."
Examples cited in the piece include:
- Amnesty International's 2022 accusation that Meta "substantially contributed" to human rights violations of Myanmar's Rohingya people
- Internal Meta documents saying "We are not actually doing what we say we do publicly" in policing harmful content.
So far the ACM's piece has attracted one comment. "Deep thanks for your long-term commitment to ethics and how you articulate clearly its challenges."
Computing is amoral (Score:3)
It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it.
Re: Computing is amoral (Score:3)
Start with requiring that browsers shall protect the user against cross site data exchange.
That would kill a lot of trackers.
Langdon Winner argues artifacts can have politics (Score:2)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"In 1980 Winner proposed that technologies embody social relations, i.e. power.[2] To the question he poses "Do Artifacts Have Politics?", Winner identifies two ways in which artifacts can have politics. The first, involving technical arrangements and social order, concerns how the invention, design, or arrangement of artifacts or the larger system becomes a mechanism for settling the affairs of a community. This way "transcends the simple categories of 'intended' and 'unint
Re: Langdon Winner argues artifacts can have polit (Score:1)
What...the hell...makes a guy who spent this entire life in academia an authority on anything? It looks like the only hard skills he has are writing books and playing the piano. I mean it would be one thing if he conducted a large body of research like historians do, or performed experiments of any kind and made some kind of discovery, or at least maybe come up with a novel theorem that has real world applications like John Nash...but it looks like this guy has done none of that.
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What...the hell...makes a guy who spent this entire life in academia an authority on anything? It looks like the only hard skills he has are writing books and playing the piano. I mean it would be one thing if he conducted a large body of research like historians do, or performed experiments of any kind and made some kind of discovery, or at least maybe come up with a novel theorem that has real world applications like John Nash...but it looks like this guy has done none of that.
What... the heck... makes a guy who spends his time on slashdot an authority on Winner's argument?
It looks like the only way to find out is for you to take the time to log into your library's website and use their research database collections to actually read his article where he presents examples and explanations of his thesis, and then develop your own critique. I mean it would be one thing if you truly wanted to understand the issue so you conducted a large body of research to read his argument, the maj
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This.
It's interesting that they specifically cite Myanmar*. They are currently fighting a civil war against their deeply unpopular military government and that war has been enabled, in part, by 3D printed weapons.
(If you're old, Myanmar = Burma.)
Need to fix title... (Score:5, Insightful)
Blaming Media, ACM Publication Argues Media 'Has Blood On Its Hands'
Re:Need to fix title... (Score:4, Insightful)
You're right, to a degree, but it's important to recognize the unprecedented level and speed of damage to basic social cohesion that can be done by foreign nationals participating unfettered in our social media. Other forms of media that are primarily one-way conversations, or at the very least delayed and filtered two-way conversations held through human middle-men, just can't do the same amount of damage so quickly, which is why this never was such an apparent problem to everyone before now.
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this never was such an apparent problem to everyone before now.
So, before the rise of social media, there was no hate in the world? Jim Crow never happened? The Holocaust was a hoax?
Sure. Whatever.
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The hate we saw in the 19th and 20th Centuries was far worse than what we see on social media these days.
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What? How many rape victims end up with a scar they have to look at in the mirror every day? You call the other poster absurd but that's all you've been this conversation.
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And throughout the 80s and 90s and early 2000s, this had had a tremendously valuable effect because as a result of the media simply shutting pro-racism views out, we'd reached the point where plenty people - My late teenage self was one of them - ge
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I think the opposite (Score:2)
You're right, to a degree, but it's important to recognize the unprecedented level and speed of damage to basic social cohesion that can be done by foreign nationals participating unfettered in our social media. Other forms of media that are primarily one-way conversations, or at the very least delayed and filtered two-way conversations held through human middle-men, just can't do the same amount of damage so quickly, which is why this never was such an apparent problem to everyone before now.
I dunno about that.
I recently finished reading this book [wikipedia.org] which goes through various delusions throughout history.
Social media of the time was a letter from the pope, the town crier relating items of news, people talking in pubs, individuals orating in the town square, and the local pastor voicing views during church.
That's all local and delayed, but still brought us the witch mania, the crusades, fortune telling, haunted houses, alchemy, and the Tulip bubble.
Modern flat earth society compares well with fort
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Modern flat earth society compares well with fortune telling, anti vaxxing with alchemy, and the witch mania with virtue signaling and cancel culture.
While I don't disagree with the general thrust of your post, I have to point out that fortune telling is alive and well today. Visiting my parents, I saw a full ad for psychic fortune telling from "our professional psychics". Just call X number and pay by the minute.
Anti-vaxxing is actually as old as variolation, and I'd actually rate it as the opposite of alchemy. Alchemy was, after all, an attempt to FIND knowledge, even if they were incredibly off base.
Now witch mania and virtue signaling/cancel cultu
Re: I think the opposite (Score:2)
Uh, that was part of a larger Soviet famine...
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Sometimes both narratives are fundamentally false at some level but the differences don't actually matter and the only thing that really matters is people aren't wasting energy fighting over it. Your masters know that, and that's why they send you to sow discord amongst us.
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Sometimes? You need to examine your own sources more objectively.
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Yeah, because only our leaders lie to us, but thank god we have foreign governments that tell us the truth because they could never want to harm us.
Dude, seriously, either you're a shill or dumb. Which one is it?
Oh, the whole field of computing is it? (Score:5, Informative)
What a shitty and inaccurate headline, how about Capitalism, You Have Blood on Your Hands! or Meta, You Have Blood on Your Hands! or Greedy Foolish Billionaires, You Have Blood on Your Hands! instead?
Re:Oh, the whole field of computing is it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps the best headline is, "Humanity, You have Blood Your Hands!"
Re: Oh, the whole field of computing is it? (Score:2)
Ah but that would make everyone seem guilty when in fact you need to have some kind of power to get your hands bloody. Let's not absolve the powerful because "that's how people are". Most people don't cause large-scale damage.
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We have a system where corporations have corrupted their governments & regulators & are now free to maximise profits regardless of the harm it might do. Like Joseph Pulitzer & William Randolph Hearst back in the 1890s, Zuckerberg, Musk, et al. have re-discovered that spreading division, fear & hate
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No, we don't. Most of us are pretty decent folk
Are you paying taxes which are being used to commit genocide in other countries? Yeah, me too. Guess what that makes us? NOT PRETTY DECENT FOLK, I'll tell you that much.
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Re:Oh, the whole field of computing is it? (Score:4, Insightful)
You'll have to do better than that. Yes, I agree that we in wealthy western countries benefit from horrific acts of violence & inflict suffering on massive scales,
If it were only the wealthy west. No country is exempt from those acts.
If I were to make some conjectures, I think it is because our noggins evolved as a tribal creature, maybe dealing with 20 or so people. The exact number doesn't matter, it's a small number though. We're usually loving and caring to each other. Nice people.
Over time, we've adapted a little, enough to get 8 billion people here on earth. But the same old problem shows up:
The other. Back in the day, with tribes competing with each other for resources, and often women - you can't have small tribes of related people without eventual inbreeding. So kidnapping happened. "Slaughter the Boazites, all of the males, and take their young women as your own." Creepy from a modern perspective. A survival mechanism. Brutal violence, and immoral acts.
So that propensity to be loving and decent and murderous at the same time is possibly hardwired. We have almost subjugated it, but it rears up from time to time in all human societies.
The other. Same old process. Identify a group, dehumanize it, then go after it. Back in the day it was those Boazites, today it's a racial group, a religious group, immigrants, or political groups.
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Beautiful, accurate comment.
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"We're usually loving and caring to each other. Nice people." Maybe to those 20 people but what about the outsiders?
That was my whole point. We aren't nice to others when they are cast as the other.
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So what do you make of the claims by Steven Pinker that over the millennia, centuries, & decades, we're steadily getting less violent & more humanitarian? Pinker's an impressive critical thinker & researches his subjects very thoroughly, cites his sources, etc.. According to him, humans have never been so peaceful & empathetic, & we're at the point where the citizenry are particularly intolerant of violence against others & suffering in general.
That's the part where we have managed to improve despite our base instincts. And what has happened is that we've engaged in smaller wars in recent years. And of course there was that one rather big one. WW2, we managed to decrease the world's population by an estimated 3 percent - 70-80 million out of 2.5 billion at that time. Even now, we have a presidential candidate that encourages violence against his enemies, and is now openly broaching the quiet part in promising blood purity and what is increasingly
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A few years ago, Hans Rosling went on a campaign to try to address the imbalance in media reporting (i.e. it doesn't reflect the facts of the modern world particularly well) & to show how societies around the world &
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Sure, you can get that impression if you believe that what you see in the media is a representative sample of humanity. As with social media, main stream media tends to present humanity at its worst & we could be forgiven for believing that most people around the world are "bad."
I'm inclined not to say that they are good or bad. They are the animal homo sapiens sapiens , one of many in this spheroid. Just our nature. And make no mistake, acknowledging our baser instincts is not necessarily saying we are bad, any more than saying that particular animals are bad because of how they evolved. It's something that probably needs to evolve more - quite a lot. Which is going to be tough, because it is linked to our survival instincts. Preserving survival instincts while tossing our aggress
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I agree that we in wealthy western countries benefit from horrific acts of violence & inflict suffering on massive scales, as citizens, not only aren't we given the choice
We all make the choice, don't we? Go to jail for not funding it, or fund it and people die.
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I'm not in jail. If you pay taxes then you aren't doing it right. If man can make it then man can break it. Maybe change your friends or eliminate them because they will probably get jealous and turn you in. Capitalists are are all snitches. Join Satan or go to jail. Easy choice, really.
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Troll harder.
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Bow to Satan, troll.
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Ahh, you're that kid. It's gonna be OK. You will eventually learn your mom never loved you and you will just have to accept it.
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Just because she has a penis now doesn't mean she still isn't your mom.
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Your powers of deduction are quite lacking. I never said I didn't pay taxes nor did I say I had no friends. Might want to go back to school and learn how to read.
With friends like that who needs enemies? I don't have to banter with my friends. That's why they are friends.
Like I said earlier. Troll harder. And pull that red, white and blue dildo out of your ass.
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Hypocrisy (Score:3)
Indeed, wrong arguments like this which are intended to make everyone feel bad about what they do are _exactly_ the sort of thing that leads to poor mental health. So if this hypocritical idiot wants to find someone to blame a great place to start would be a mirror.
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"What has science done!?" -- Dr. Weird, South Jersey Shore
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Re:Hypocrisy (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll blame many working in computing...
For instance:
The guys (developers employed by the manufacturer) who made polish trains brick themselves when they visited a 3rd party repair shop.
Chrome developers implementing slower adblock updates https://arstechnica.com/google... [arstechnica.com]
The people who implement "silent privacy option reset" on ToS update (looking at LG)
And that's just from the last month.
The guys at facebook (or any other company) who "maximize engagement" . They know what they're doing, and have known for at least 10 years now.
"If not me, then someone else would" ... yeah, but it was you in the end, you who didn't say "no".
I get it: mortgages, income , golden handcuffs...
Also a boss is an "authority" , coercive, but still an authority. The Milgram experiment comes to mind.
I'm lucky, I do have the financial situation to walk away. Would I? I hope so, but can't say for sure.
I do know I have already said "no" to implementing something. And I didn't.
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I completely agree. And I had the financial wherewithal to walk away from working in tech, and I did. Retired from software development at the end of April 2023 and don't miss it one bit.
The developers who work on DRM, on software to enable privacy-invading business models, and on exploits to infect activists' phones are just as culpable as the business and political leaders driving these things.
None of those are dev responsibility (Score:3)
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Yes, and I tried to say that I see that nuance. I guess you didn't get to the "golden handcuffs" paragraph.
As for
> All of those are decided by manager at higher level than the dev
The Polish case was something that if I were to be put in such a position I hope I'd at the very least find the courage to blow the whistle on it... There are many ways to do it anonymously.
And the "[subordinates] forced to serve as mere instruments" argument, I thought we went through that at Nurenberg.
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Cool (Score:1)
Now do easy access to firearms. Watch how the comments change.
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Easy access? More like ANY access.
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You did notice that most of these school shooters didn't plan to get out of there alive, yes? I think the threat of being gunned down wouldn't exactly stop anyone, it's like threatening a suicide bomber with life in prison...
It's a range (Score:2)
I think that the threat of being gunned down stops a lot of potential shooters - school and otherwise. It's just that we have a small percentage that aren't deterred by anything, for whatever reason. So we only see the exceptions.
Most criminals have very broken risk assessment sections of the brain. I've read that the mere threat of a trial - much less punishment after, is enough to get most people to not be criminals. For deterrence, 7 years is about the maximum sentence. If they're willing to do a cr
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The threat of being hurt or killed only deters people who care about this. You think it would deter a suicide bomber to tell him he's getting the death penalty for his action? Not to mention that criminals generally don't take the potential legal problems into account. Almost all bank robberies get solved. We're talking about more than 98% being caught and arrested within the first 3 days of it happening, for increasingly smaller and smaller chances of loot because more and more banks can only get minimal c
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The threat of being hurt or killed only deters people who care about this.
That's basically what I said though? Those willing to commit a crime despite a 7 year prison sentence being a possibility will overwhelmingly still commit the crime even if the death penalty is on the table. Either because they're that dedicated (like a suicide bomber) or just not considering the possibility at all.
Studies have shown that the average "law abiding" person is deterred by something as small as the prospect of having to face a trial for committing a crime. So they won't do whatever.
Then you
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It's a social problem more than a mental health one. There is a reason they shoot up their (current or former) school and not, say, the local mall where they could run up a far higher body count.
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Local mall is more likely to have a cop or ccw person there, so higher body count is unlikely.
Plus, yeah, it is often personal for them.
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What these school shootings really are is an act of revenge. Stop the bullying and the school shootings will stop as well.
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Too simple of an explanation. Most school shooters are not notably bullied. Like I said, their closest profile match is suicide victims, and spree shooters normally die during their attack, so it can even be viewed as a form of suicide.
Hell, even attributing "revenge" to them is pushing it. They may be attacking where they are because it's what they're familiar with. I've also heard that they're seeking some sort of fame - and shooting a school up gets them that more than a mall.
Now, stopping bullying o
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I know it's an unpopular opinion, but it's kinda hard to hide anymore. Every time you do some kind of study [alfred.edu] on school shootings, the results that come back are the same. The reason that most would give for it is bullying and revenge. That also correlates with the targets the shooters choose, it's usually their (former) classmates and/or a particular set of teachers.
It's actually pretty rare that they just go to some school and shoot anyone in their path. Most of the time when you're watching interviews with
Humans (Score:3)
Humans may ultimately be incapable of a civilized stable society. Jealousy, ignorance, intolerance, lack of universal empathy .. all these traits are highly destabilizing. The only solution may be genetic engineering. We'll need some serious gene modification. You know how humans took wolves and turned them into docile golden retrievers. Well that, multiplied by 50 given all the traits that need correcting.
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Okay, great! You first.
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Totally willing. Once many of the gene mods are identified that can improve my already high sense of empathy, intelligence, reflexes for gaming, agility, and civilizedness I'll be first in line for the jabs.
Define "stable" (Score:3)
Humans may ultimately be incapable of a civilized stable society.
Define "stable". The only thing stable about our society is that it is always changing and redefining what "civil" is. What was considered perfectly civil 20 years ago is considered offensive today - it's hard to call that "stable" - but I'd argue that a society that cannot change would be much worse because if you cannot change it how can you improve it and adapt it to whatever the current challenges are.
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The only solution may be genetic engineering.
Who would you trust to make those kinds of decisions? Why would you trust them?
Singapore saw this coming in 1979 (Score:4, Interesting)
So, it is ok to blame the tool now? (Score:3)
How did the technology that we considered 'cool' just a decade ago become an assault weapon used to
Since when is it right to blame the *tool* for how someone used the tool to hurt other people? Did people in the past also blamed horses, railroads, or the telegram, for allowing harmful ideas to spread much faster than it used to?
If that is ok, then how about starting the blame from, e.g., some of the tools that was designed to hurt people first? Such as some of those actual assault weapons? Rather than other tools that were alleged to have "became" one?
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Since the U.S. Constitution, if not earlier. The founders knew [wikipedia.org] that a direct popular vote could be used as a tool to hurt other people, and that is why they chose a representative form of government and put in place [wikipedia.org] the Electoral College.
Obviously, he refers to the community (Score:2)
Since a few people are apparently confused about Vardi referring to the technology...
That said, he is not wrong.
Slashdot (Score:3)
As Slashdot was one of the early and premier social media websites, I'm curious about the trail of hurt, traumatize, and vulnerable people killed in its wake. Who new Natalie Portman and foodstuff could be so destructive.
Slashdot did accelerate pointing out glaring holes in my thought processes (not so much anymore), forcing me to reconsider several sacred truths.
That aspect of social media seems to have died down a great deal, but it's available in limited pockets.
Self-aggrandizement however is in full tilt. Still can't wrap my head around "influencer" without receipts.
So is it really social media or the new crop of users?
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Older boards and forums and whatnot never attracted the kind of dimwits that clutter current social media sites. Because the makers of those boards had standards other than "let's have as many eyeballs as possible". That's the only metric these new social media sites care about. Only very rarely do they rein that problem in, usually when it starts to attract the attention of their advertisers and how they don't want to run ads next to sexist or racist content.
Older boards also got their "regulars" at a time
Every new technology "has blood on its hands" (Score:1)
Telephone, radio, TV, electricity, the fax machine, the automobile, airplanes, you name it. Every new technology can be and has been used as a tool of war.
I don't see the problem (Score:2)
>Our obsession with efficiency came at the expense of resilience.
Things still seem pretty resilient, here. Haven't had a dropped connection or down web page in quite some time.
> In the name of efficiency, we aimed at eliminating all friction. In the name of efficiency, it became desirable to move fast and break things,
Sounds pretty good to me, as long as they don't move fast and break things in the safety space, which we crack down on when we find out about.
>we allowed the technology industry to be
Goes back way further (Score:2)
This is really no different from IBM punch card tabulators being used to track Jews in 1930s Germany -- once a technology is out there, it's incredibly difficult to keep it from being put to use in any application it's suitable for, and some it isn't. Freedom to do good is often freedom to do harm as well. Of course IBM kept selling them more even after they knew what was being done, which is a stain they acknowledge, but I don't see how anyone could have prevented the use of tabulators to track and oppress
Cause or Reveal (Score:2)
Responsibility (Score:5, Interesting)
"It is time for all computing professionals to accept responsibility for computing's current state."
I don't like this language. Diluting responsibility in this manner only diverts accountability away from those who are actually responsible for the outcome.
Whether it is tech industry deliberately constructing fancy message boards with piss poor governance to maximize attention or MSM trolling the public with fear and outrage to maximize attention. Someone somewhere made an affirmative decision to fuck over society for profit and a whole lot of other people made an affirmative decision to go along with it.
While I believe it is constructive to call on people with relevant experience to help fix the problem "all computing professionals" are not responsible for it.
Howls of protest and denial... (Score:2)
I think he is definitely on to something.
Collectively, we are the ones responsible for building this
steaming pile of shit we call the internet. Without our skills
and enthusiasm, this would never have happened.
It's time we accepted responsibility for it.
I don't recall anyone forcing me to use it! (Score:2)
Cry me a river (Score:1)
The same was said of the printing press, the telegraph and the telephone.
There are always luddites harelipped by progress. Shit sorts itself out if you let it.
Not even close to true (Score:3)
This is the only complaint even close to true and it's still false: How did writing code decide the size of a corporation? Product differentiation and vendor lock-in has always been a thing: He didn't complain when big iron, AOL, CompuServe, then Apple, created walled gardens. Software developers didn't cause people to buy one of those products and ignore the competition.
George Orwell and Ray Bradbury wrote stories where the government used microphones, newspapers, billboards and censorship to damage the people: The people didn't help corporations exploit customers and didn't turn social media into hate-mongering. It is dishonest of Moshe Y. Vardi to claim this was invented by computing technology and its minions.
This ignores how much antisemitism and yellow journalism newspapers published 120 and 100 years ago: Main-stream media didn't bock hate-mongering, just like social media on computers. Even in the 21st century, hate-mongering continues with Fox News: But today it is more subtle, no longer a call to violence. It is passive yellow journalism: Their propaganda of 'someone else fight this and someone else fix my feelings' means Fox News is not the ring-leader and not responsible. They turned American against American long before Facebook, Twitter/X and Youtube chose to glorify vitriol and hate-mongering. Fox News also exports this elitism to other countries, where corporations and billionaires have less celebrity status.
Moshe Y. Vardi is ignoring the the fact that hate-mongering doesn't start on social media. Social media has its own demons but ignoring MSM, ignoring US racism and caste, and spouting half-truths, is the Salem witch-trials, is McCarthyism, in a new dress.
Blaming all computing-tech people because of the damage done by a handful of corporations means we can also blame a multitude of corporations for global warming, for pollution, for the persistence of American racism, and especially for the unending worship of winner-take-all capitalism.
Moshe, Jews are not the victim here (Score:1)
In the 90s, at the start of the Internet... (Score:2)
We thought social media, open access to information, and unfettered communication would shine light in every dark spot and democratize information and access.
We didn't realize it would provide an unlimited platform to the hate-mongers, misogynists, and bigots as well. It turns out people have no problem using this wide access to attack their neighbors and build stronger suppression tools.
Every engineering (and science) Discipline (Score:2)
Mechanical engineering has built bows, cross bows, trebuchet.
Civil and structural engineering has been building and destroying fortifications since before AD,
Chemical engineering has built gunpowder and plastic explosives.
Biological engineering has biological weapons
Electrical engineering has guidance systems for missiles
Nuclear engineers have THE BOMB
CompSci has had rose colored glasses on and co