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Transportation

Parisians Vote For Rise in Parking Fees for SUVs (bbc.com) 301

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Parisians have approved a steep rise in parking rates for SUVs in the French capital. The proposals were approved by 54.55% of voters, but turnout was only about 5.7%. From a report: The move triples parking rates for cars weighing 1.6 tonnes or more to $20 an hour in inner Paris. The vote was called by Socialist Mayor Anne Hidalgo, who has argued that SUVs are dangerous and bad for the environment. About 1.3m residents of central Paris were eligible to vote. However they will not be affected by the result as street-parking for local residents will remained unchanged. The move is mainly aimed at people from the suburbs who drive into the centre of the capital for the day.

There are exemptions for fully electric cars, taxi drivers, tradespeople, health workers and people with disabilities. Ms Hidalgo has been in office for almost 10 years. Under her tenure as mayor, many Paris streets, including the banks of the river Seine, have been pedestrianised. An extensive network of cycle lanes has also been built, in an effort to discourage driving. Environmentalists argue that SUVs consume more fuel than other cars and that their construction and use produce more harmful emissions. Supporters of the move also note that tall vehicles are deadlier than lighter cars when they are involved in accidents.
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Parisians Vote For Rise in Parking Fees for SUVs More

Parisians Vote For Rise in Parking Fees for SUVs

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  • Perfect policy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by opakapaka ( 1965658 ) on Monday February 05, 2024 @01:12PM (#64216228)
    This is a perfect example of effective policy to wean people off of SUVs. It basically says, you want to own one, you can, but pay through the nose for the externalities of what you are doing. USA - this is very likely to come to a town near you in the form of higher vehicle registration fees.
    • SUVs to the parking-meter chopping block. WHACK !! So French of you ... You call it "effective policy" as would any Euro-statist. I call it anti-market tyranny as would any (re)publican yeomanry. Where are the farmers burning bales-of-hay when we really need them, or has Paris become so anti-Gaulist that  native country folk never visit.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jonsmirl ( 114798 )

      People who say this aren't routinely moving around six or seven people and a dog. I guess we can take a car and a crossover SUV instead, of course that doubles the energy used and takes two parking places.

      • If the huge SUV is, say, 50% more expensive, then it still saves you money over taking two vehicles, assuming you're filling it up enough to need 2 vehicles otherwise. You just pay the extra expense, assuming you don't manage to come under one of the exceptions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Hadlock ( 143607 )

        You can just park in a private garage. Street parking is already ludicrously difficult to come by in most places.

    • You are quite obviously an idiot.

      >This is a perfect example of effective policy to wean people off of SUVs.
      No, no it isn't. It doesn't affect the people living there who own SUVs at all. What it DOES do is restrict how much local business owners and city tax income will make, as they will lose a large portion of sales from SUV owners who will not bother to go to the city for purchases. It wouldn't surprise me if surrounding towns see an explosion of new business and retailers catering specifically to the

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        What it DOES do is restrict how much local business owners and city tax income will make, as they will lose a large portion of sales from SUV owners who will not bother to go to the city for purchases.

        Yes, this is the goal. They don't want people driving large SUVs that take up too much space and pollute too much in the city. Cities are desirable for a reason and it's not dependent on a handful of SUV drivers.

    • I don't really get why an 'SUV' is worse for parking than a regular vehicle. Both take up a spot. Why is it charged triple? And why are EVs exempt when they weight just as much? This is really just an 'I hate SUVs' tax with no logic or reason behind it. You might as well just make it legal for Parisians to key the paint on any SUV they see parked in the city.

    • Do you know what people are doing when it comes to their towns? Registering their vehicles in other states, states that don't have a residency requirement, nor do they require in state insurance. It shouldn't cost more to register your vehicle because it's a different type of vehicle. Owners of SUVS already pay more to the government by means of the fuel tax.

    • I’m ok with this.

    • This is a perfect example of effective policy to wean people off of SUVs. It basically says, you want to own one, you can, but pay through the nose for the externalities of what you are doing. USA - this is very likely to come to a town near you in the form of higher vehicle registration fees.

      You would know this is a stupid policy if you compared the size and weight of the most popular EV's to that of the most popular SUV's. Here are the curb weights. If you check you will find many of the EV's have larger dimensions too.

      Top 5 most popular EV's https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/... [kbb.com]
      Tesla Y: 4,154 to 4,398 lbs
      Tesla 3: 3,862 to 4,034 lbs
      Ford Mach E: 4,394 to 4,920 lbs
      Chevy Bolt: 3,680 to 3,715 lbs
      Volkswagon ID4: 4,317 to 4,877 lbs

      Top 5 most popular SUV's https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/... [kbb.com]
      Toyota Rav4:

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MeNeXT ( 200840 )

      You didn't read the article just the click bait headline. The fees apply to visitors not residents. This is basically have other pay but not me, then come the complaints when they don't come.

      I would say that the suburbs should charge the cities for the traffic that just passes through.

  • quote: 'tall vehicles are deadlier than lighter cars'

    Sedan EVs are really heavy, without that 'EV' exemption they would also be an SUV when it comes to weight, and just as deadly. Looks like my compact Crossover hybrid would not qualify by about 100lbs (darn that small battery that adds 10mpg).
    • The point being made is SUVs and pickup trucks are so tall the driver has a difficult time seeing someone who walks in front of their vehicle, or even if there is something in front of them. They have a front blind spot [nbcnews.com] in addition to the other blind spots they have because of their size [motorbiscuit.com].

      This isn't about weight, it's about height. The article mixes and matches terms.

      • You also have that even a heavy sedan is more likely to hit somebody in the legs, which is more survivable, than the chest/head, which is less.

        For that matter, they're making sedans now that are designed to flex the hood to help reduce damage when hitting a pedestrian. Where with a truck/SUV they're more likely to go under and be crushed.

      • Just mandate a forward looking camera on the taller Trucks / SUVs.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by N1AK ( 864906 )
          I've always found it bizarre that even in the EU/UK where safety testing includes pedestrian safety there is basically no consequence to buying a car that is dangerous for pedestrians. If you took a car with a really high safety rating and put spikes on the front then hit someone even by accident you'd be prosecuted for reckless endangerment or some such but buy a car that just comes that dangerous to begin with and you're fine!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Junta ( 36770 )

      Even without being an EV, a lot of passenger cars exceed that weight.

      Of course, 'tall' can contribute to deadly in different ways. The higher center of gravity contributing to instability in an accident is a problem in SUVs that want to ride tall, and EVs tend to go the other way by having most of the weight in the bottom of the car. Still not great to have that much momentum in a collision, but at least it's lower. Also visibility for pedestrians, when some of these SUVs cosplay as big rigs, they end up

    • quote: 'tall vehicles are deadlier than lighter cars'

      Sedan EVs are really heavy, without that 'EV' exemption they would also be an SUV when it comes to weight, and just as deadly. Looks like my compact Crossover hybrid would not qualify by about 100lbs (darn that small battery that adds 10mpg).

      It's not so much about the weight (as you suggest) but how tall the front is, with sedans considered as baseline SUVs (>44" front) are around (depending on the slope) +(44%-45%) more likely to cause fatality [iihs.org] - because of it's front height and/or slope

  • Shouldn't there be a minimum participation? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by nocoiner ( 7891194 ) on Monday February 05, 2024 @01:13PM (#64216240)

    The proposals were approved by 54.55% of voters, but turnout was only about 5.7%.

    While I won't argue with their process, I feel that for the final results to be legitimate you'd need to have at least 25% turnout (which in itself would still be extremely low IMO). Accepting them with such a low turnout feels ripe for pushback (which would probably seem legitimate) by those affected (which didn't have any say per the story).

    • That's fair but that was peoples choice to not participate in something that might affect them, now they are stuck with it.

      If you want minimum turnout enact and enforce mandatory participation I say.

      The Simpsons - You Really Should've Voted Homer [youtube.com]

      • That's fair but that was peoples choice to not participate in something that might affect them, now they are stuck with it.

        Well, actually, no, that wasn't the case (and was my point about them not having a say); from the summary:

        About 1.3m residents of central Paris were eligible to vote. However they will not be affected by the result as street-parking for local residents will remained unchanged. The move is mainly aimed at people from the suburbs who drive into the centre of the capital for the day. (these people didn't get to vote)

        • Great, why were they not allowed to vote? Should people who are not residents of a city have jurisdiction over how that city conducts it's business over the wishes of the actual residents?

          If this law violates something on a provincial or federal level then if this were the US they are free to challenge the ruling court on whatever legal grounds they feel the city is violating.

        • Why shouldn't only Paris residents get to decide what happens in Paris? They're the ones most affected. Would you accept a vote of your neighboring towns to enact a law in your town even if their residents visited your town only occasionally?
    • make voting mandatory. That guarantees turnout. It also makes voter suppression basically impossible.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by GlennC ( 96879 )

        Only if "none of the above" is a valid option.

        As I like to say, of what use is a vote when the candidates are owned by the same corporations?

    • No. Unless the voting is some weird restricted thing like 2 am to 4 am on Wednesday, turnout is turnout. If you want your opinion to be hear and matter, you have to put forth the minimal amount of effort and actually vote. Otherwise your opinion matters only as much as everyone else here commenting on Slashdot.

  • "The vote was called by Socialist Mayor Anne Hidalgo, who has argued that SUVs are dangerous and bad for the environment. About 1.3m residents of central Paris were eligible to vote. However they will not be affected by the result as street-parking for local residents will remained unchanged."

    I don't think the pedestrian mowed over by a SUV feels any better knowing it was driven by a resident. And damage to the environment is from miles driven/gas used, not where the owner lives.

    But, typical politics. Don

    • > But, typical politics. Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax someone else's SUV.

      It’s something about letting the people enjoy their neighborhood while lightly punishing those who don’t live there but still casually create totally avoidable problems before fucking off to their suburb. All the local SUV owners will still get theirs when they take their problemobile into someone else’s neighborhood.

      If you really want an SUV you can still have one. If you have one but it doesn’t mean t

    • "The vote was called by Socialist Mayor Anne Hidalgo, who has argued that SUVs are dangerous and bad for the environment. About 1.3m residents of central Paris were eligible to vote. However they will not be affected by the result as street-parking for local residents will remained unchanged."

      I don't think the pedestrian mowed over by a SUV feels any better knowing it was driven by a resident. And damage to the environment is from miles driven/gas used, not where the owner lives.

      But, typical politics. Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax someone else's SUV.

      I'd be happy to charge (European) SUV owners extra (I don't really give a shit about the US ones, I don't live there) because in European cities SUV owners practically always park in one and a half parkings spaces simply because these damn things are usually too big for a regular parking space. On top of that they also often require somewhere between one and a quarter to one and one and a half lanes to get anywhere in cities around here forcing anybody on a two lane street coming the opposite way to park th

    • I don't think the pedestrian mowed over by a SUV feels any better knowing it was driven by a resident. And damage to the environment is from miles driven/gas used, not where the owner lives.

      Parisian locals do not drive SUVs. If they did they'd have almost no way of getting them into parking places near their houses. The SUV scourge on the city is from people in the suburbs commuting in and parking in the commercial districts. Residents aren't the problem here.

  • It's a thinly veiled cash grab meant to shame without altering behaviour. If you really want to do anything other than reach into somebody's wallet, other targets are more appropriate. But claiming it's about emissions is intellectual dishonesty.

    • Everyone eligible to vote was also exempt from the results :)

      It's a tax on visitors.
      • Exactly. I don't think Parisians really gave a damn about 'vehicle weight' or 'safety', they just want to make more money and/or punish outsiders visiting their city. This happens everywhere.

  • I'm not sure this exact proposal is the way to go, but I do think parking rates should reflect how much of the street a vehicle takes up. You can park a lot more tiny Honda Fits on a given length of street than giant SUVs, so they require less infrastructure and less expense.

    I realize stuff like this will never fly in car-worshipping North America. Oh well.

    • .. parking rates should reflect how much of the street a vehicle takes up. ...

      I'm not sure what you mean by parking rates - is that something in USA streets? Otherwise, at least here in the UK, car parks are marked out in bays and even the smallest car occupies a whole one. In streets where there is a charge there are also marked lengths, one per parking meter. The length is somehow calculated on what the 99%ile competent driver can manage to get in or out in the 1%ile smallest car, or something like that. Drivers of larger cars may need to be more competent than others. Some str

  • When did it become socially acceptable to ask about vehicle weight?!? That's not how the body positive movement works, it's supposed to be inclusive. That line of questioning may cause my SUV to suffer from depression.

    Unless they have a scale there, they'll need to look at the manufacturer stamp showing gross curb weight. Those stamps can be custom made and replaced easily. If they have the manufacturer's specs on the vehicle, just tell them you're has been modified. You can also play games with them by deb

  • Wait until they find out what EV's weigh. LOL. Meanwhile two of my SUV's weighs less than that.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Ksevio ( 865461 )

      Wait until YOU learn how much pollution EVs cause in a city compared to your two SUVs.

      Hint: It's basically 0

  • SUVs are just dumb. Anyone crowing about their "freedom" is really just selfish... Freedumb! ttps://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo?si=__TSUxyDH4SpLDoe
  • SUVs especially in older towns take parking spaces for 2 smaller cars - charge accordingly - it is that simple.

    • SUVs especially in older towns take parking spaces for 2 smaller cars - charge accordingly - it is that simple.

      What BS. According to that, cars change their size according to how old the town is. Anyway, you would need a 2-seater Smart Car to get near being half the length of an average SUV, but that would not halve the length of the parking because they still need manoeuvering space. Car parks are marked in bays and even the smallest car occupies a whole one. In streets where there is a charge there are also marked lengths, one per parking meter. Where I am, some streets are reserved for residents only (who are

      • Lol i live in the city and the street parking is not marked lengths and there are trucks all over the place parked two tires on the sidewalk.

  • BBC article partially inaccurate (Score:4, Informative)

    by dbu ( 256902 ) on Monday February 05, 2024 @02:04PM (#64216498)

    The quoted BBC article states:

    About 1.3m residents of central Paris were eligible to vote. However they will not be affected by the result as street-parking for local residents will remained unchanged."

    That's not entirely true. Parisian motorists will only be partially unaffected by the result, since if they park their (>=1.6 tons) vehicle outside their residential area (4 zones around the main residence area), they will be subject to the same rates as non-residents.

  • Does the city control the parking rates because they own the parking, or is this a fee that private parking operators pay on a per-vehicle basis?

    Here in the states, it's common to see both public and private parking and I'm curious if that's the case in Paris as well.

  • There's a reason that most cars there are small. Roads are narrow and congested. Driving a large vehicle in Paris makes little sense

  • 1.6 tonnes is 3,527 lbs.

    Would you consider a Mini Cooper Countryman ALL4 to be a "heavy SUV"? 3,545 lbs

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