New Australian Law Will Give Workers 'Right to Disconnect' (seattletimes.com) 97
An anonymous reader shared this report from the New York Times
When it's after hours, and the boss is on the line, Australian workers — already among the world's best-rested and most personally fulfilled employees — can soon press "decline" in favor of the seductive call of the beach. In yet another buttress against the scourge of overwork, Australia's Senate on Thursday passed a bill giving workers the right to ignore calls and messages outside of working hours without fear of repercussion. It will now return to the House of Representatives for final approval.
The bill, expected to pass in the House with ease, will let Australian workers refuse "unreasonable" professional communication outside of the workday. Workplaces that punish employees for not responding to such demands could be fined. "Someone who is not being paid 24 hours a day shouldn't be penalized if they're not online and available 24 hours a day," Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said at a news conference Wednesday...
Australia follows in the footsteps of European nations such as France, which in 2017 introduced the right of workers to disconnect from employers while off duty, a move later emulated by Germany, Italy and Belgium. The European Parliament has also called for a law across the European Union that would alleviate the pressure on workers to answer communications off the clock...
Australians already enjoy a host of standardized benefits, including 20 days of paid annual leave, mandatory paid sick leave, "long service" leave of six weeks for those who have remained at an employer for at least seven years, 18 weeks of paid maternity leave and a nationwide minimum wage of about $15 an hour.
The bill, expected to pass in the House with ease, will let Australian workers refuse "unreasonable" professional communication outside of the workday. Workplaces that punish employees for not responding to such demands could be fined. "Someone who is not being paid 24 hours a day shouldn't be penalized if they're not online and available 24 hours a day," Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said at a news conference Wednesday...
Australia follows in the footsteps of European nations such as France, which in 2017 introduced the right of workers to disconnect from employers while off duty, a move later emulated by Germany, Italy and Belgium. The European Parliament has also called for a law across the European Union that would alleviate the pressure on workers to answer communications off the clock...
Australians already enjoy a host of standardized benefits, including 20 days of paid annual leave, mandatory paid sick leave, "long service" leave of six weeks for those who have remained at an employer for at least seven years, 18 weeks of paid maternity leave and a nationwide minimum wage of about $15 an hour.
Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)
If your company's culture is to expect universal availability, it's going to be hard to be the one who resists. You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.
Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've always made it clear that if you want me on call, then I'm expecting to get paid. On a friday night I'm out for beers, call me at that point, you can expect nonsense. And I make sure my bosses know that in advance. Its never given me dramas.
Be assertive, its your life, nobody elses, and if the boss doesnt like it, well quit and find an employer that respects your time.
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree, but good luck getting that through a parliment thats dominated by a "left" and "right" party that basically espouse the same neo-liberal mining-first business ideology.
Labor and LNP have the same bloody policies, but the LNP just say the quiet bits out loud.
Its not that different to the Reagan era Republicans and Clinton era Democrats basically having the same set of policies but with a whole charade about one side being "liberal" and the other "conservative".
Re: Nice theory but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Just to clarify, they should pay you for every hour that you stay "on call". Not just a miserable flat rate for being on standby.
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Being on-call is factored into a decent salary.
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Yep, all this means is that they can't write you up for this. Big whoop, they just find some other reason to write you up.
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Insightful)
If 99.9% of the employees do the same thing that's guaranteed by law there's little reason to write them up for it. It's like writing them up for arriving and leaving on time.
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, there will be bosses trying anyway and there will be a few people answering those calls.
In our company we had regulations, when called and answered you would get payed overtime, some days and weekends I would tell them in advance I would be 'out of the house' and the phone switched off.
Re:Nice theory but... (Score:5, Insightful)
If your company's culture is to expect universal availability,
...it's time to dust off your resume and get out of there.
You won't get promoted
When was the last time you got promoted? Promotion from inside is a thing of the past, nobody gets promoted anymore. No company wants to open that can of worms anymore. Why Dick instead of Harry. Or worse, and a lawsuit in the making, why Dick instead of Harriette?
the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.
The probability of surviving the next round of lay offs is moot. Either you get fired or you get twice the workload into your back. Neither is a good outcome, so I don't give a fuck if you fire me or try to burn me out with twice the work, I'll be gone. Fired or quitted. And so should you.
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I don't think it works that way in Australia, their law being somewhat similar to European and UK law.
If a position is available, they must allow people inside the company to apply for it. If they don't get it when they are qualified and interview well, the company had better be able to explain why. If it becomes a pattern, that's generally speaking enough to claim for discrimination.
Same goes for this new law. If you can show that, on a balance of probabilities, you were disadvantaged by not taking out-of-
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>...it's time to dust off your resume and get out of there.
Do you like having online resources functional outside of M-F 9-5?
That means people are on-call.
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You can have me on call, if you pay me for it.
You don't pay, I don't pick up.
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Reminds me of the "culture of working overtime without pay" in Japan's mickey-dee.
They kept at it after it was banned by law, and a couple of large-profile lawsuits with big payouts made them reconsider.
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You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.
Already happening. Remote workers are already 35% more likely to be laid off [businessinsider.com] than people who come to the office and 31% more likely to not get promoted [forbes.com] than those who come to the office.
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Does your pay reflect that?
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No its not (or shouldn't) since they should have at least 2 people, and you should be rostered on or off. Its not to the benefit of the employee or the employer to have only one. If you are the only one that can deal with an issue, it is a huge risk to the company.
Re: Nice theory but... (Score:2)
Perhaps if you're a site reliability engineer. Not a 9-5 dev, manager or otherwise non-critical entity.
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There is no such thing as a 24/7 job in Australian law. There are minimum required break times and maximum allowable work hours.
You can tell me that managers will ignore that and rely on people not knowing better and you might be right... but in practice I've seen people try to assert in court that the business they were managing wasn't subject to this law due to operational necessities or whatever and in the process being told that they were risking contempt of court, ending up losing their positions and b
No, most IT is ***not*** 24/7 (Score:2)
IT 'needs' and IT manager 'wants' are different things. Unless you support highly available systems like those in hospitals, nuclear power, ATMs, etc., then IT is not a 24/7 process and its support is not a 24/7 role.
Most organisations and businesses have a cadence where after hours or on weekends, the core business shuts down or slows. IT support requirements reflects that cadence.
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Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.
You're missing the biggest protection: the door. There are lots of jobs out there. Some will require being connected 24-7. Others will not. If you don't like, vote with your feet. In short order, the company will find it has to start offering more to get people to accept offers. Win-win! People will find themselves either getting higher compensation for the connected culture or at a job where they can clock out.
Seriously though, this is just going to encourage companies to not hire in Oz. It's not like they
The job market is freezing over (Score:2)
The vast numbers departing from Silicon Valley companies is making the door ever less attractive. So - yes in theory - but beware...
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My understanding is this legislation is prompted by The Greens, so it's more part of their political grandstanding/vision than solving a real problem. Like you, I don't see Australia has a culture of workers being called up by managers for info or additional work outside of hours. Happy to be shown otherwise, I only work in a single industry.
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My understanding is this legislation is prompted by The Greens, so it's more part of their political grandstanding/vision than solving a real problem. Like you, I don't see Australia has a culture of workers being called up by managers for info or additional work outside of hours. Happy to be shown otherwise, I only work in a single industry.
I have no doubt.
We all hear stories and see in the media of Bosses from Hell, who hound their underlings at all times of the day and night. As you say, I've never personally encountered this but I've only worked in one industry (enterprise software development) and in one area (Silicon Valley) so I don't have a lot of insight. The closest I get is working with company sales teams and working with people I hire for work around the house (who, unsurprisingly, also seem very willing to answer the phone at all
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Re: Nice theory but... (Score:2)
Sure, I have colleagues and bosses who demand that you reply. Some even resemble junkies. There brain will blow if you do not respond. I have had it with these types. In a lot of cases they are not even the big contributers to the company. They are a lot of hot air and lack the discipline to work organized. In
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In their own minds, they are heroes though.
Scary insight; thank you
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Re:Nice theory but... (Score:4, Informative)
If your company's culture is to expect universal availability, it's going to be hard to be the one who resists. You won't get promoted, and the probability that you survive the next round of lay offs is not high.
Here's hoping my pessimism is unfounded, but, to me, without a wider range of protections, in many jurisdictions this is a merely inviting people to paint a target on their forehead.
This sounds like an American, which I am, trying to wrap their head around the concept of employee protections in a society that has such a thing. Don't worry. This type of tyrannical "employees are people too" nonsense won't ever grace our shores in the United States. The owner class needs protected here. Employees need to eat more shit and be told it's the finest of caviar.
What do you mean with "unreasonable"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless I'm on call and get paid for it, any call from work is unreasonable.
You want my time, pay for it. You want me to be available, pay for it. You don't want to pay for it, fuck off.
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This is the only answer. And because it would take about 2 seconds for every employer everywhere to add 'on call' to every employee's job description... it has to be legislated very firmly.
You contract with a company to do a job, usually with set hours. Outside of those hours, as far as the company is concerned you should not exist.
If they need you beyond that it should be in the employment contract, and the time limits and premiums paid on having someone on call or to have them work outside their usual h
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I don't know Austrailian law, but in some places on-call time carries a minimum rate of pay in addition to work hours. Employers may violate that if they like, but if a local labor board determines they were constructively demanding on-call without pay, they may end up owing a lot of back pay and penalties.
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I can assure you that this definitely applies in Australia.
In fact, I've been backpaid based on casual violations of it myself... and in my case I only even know about the violation due to my employer doing an internal audit and telling me.
Re: What do you mean with "unreasonable"? (Score:2)
Like I already said in a other comment in this thread, they should pay you for every hour that you are required to be on standby. Not just a flat rate from the day like many companies do. If I can't leave home and do whatever I want with the day, you owe me for the entirety of that time.
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Forget to hand over a critical document or system to someone that needs it overnight
disappear after making a breaking change and then not answer your calls
there are lots of other edge cases, the two above are just ones I know we have had with team members and if they didn't take the call they would quickly find they had no job the next day. It is a balancing act, yes most contact outside of hours is unacceptable, but a certain percentage are essential. So u
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> Forget to hand over a critical document or system to someone that needs it overnight
> disappear after making a breaking change and then not answer your calls
No changes whatsoever should be anywhere near production until they've been throughly tested by independent testing teams and all work has been signed off. This includes production/securing of all documentation, all code and anything else that's required.
If you're a medium to large scale organisation and you're not managing your change process
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If I break something before going on vacation and production is at a standstill, either the processes in the company are complete rubbish or I broke process. In the latter case, I should be punished for breaking security processes, in the former, whoever is responsible for establishing the formal process of pushing something into production should be.
In neither case this has anything to do with me dropping the hammer at 5pm.
In case of the document, why doesn't someone have access to critical documents? Eith
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with the incident of disappearing after a change at 6pm. It was 2,000 users unable to work in another timezone as the day was not over for them. Not sure how much it cost, but it was enough for him to be fired.
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the Right to be left alone (Score:2)
Unless you're a willing participant in the on-call roster, give them your land line number. Or the same toll free number for reckless truck drivers. 1-800 -EAT-somethingsomething like that.
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I would, but land-lines aren't available in all areas. And in many places where they are, telcos are setting prices exorbitantly high to coerce people to quit.
I consider myself lucky to have relatively cheap ... IP-telephony, at home, to a "classic" phone (as much as a cordless digital DECT phone is a "classic phone"). But in many areas, you can't even get wired broadband.
Go outside and (Score:2)
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As an Aussie I can confirm that it is in fact possible to get caught out by a dangerous animal but you would probably have to be doing something stupid (or hit a very rare circumstance) for it to happen.
I live in suburbia and the last time I saw a snake or kangaroo was at a zoo, the last time I saw an octopus was at a fishmonger and spiders aren't a problem if you leave them alone (or hit em with the bug spray :)
Snakes can show up in suburbia but if you leave them alone you should be fine.
The biggest pest a
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As a foreigner who visited Australia and was regaled of stories of all the nasty critters... I saw a koala at a koala sanctuary and some roos at the zoo.
No dinner-plate-sized spiders in the gardens. No snakes. Didn't bump in to Paul Hogan. I also learned there are multiple Australian accents and none of them sounded like Croc Dundee.
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I was at the Billabong Sanctuary [billabongs...ary.com.au] in Townsville in Queensland in 2005. I was on line to 'hold a koala bear', figured my daughters would like the picture. I watched a woman about 5 people in front of me not hold the animal firmly and it clawed her pretty significantly. I still held the bear, it just felt insecure in her hands, but even those 'mundane' animals you refer to could easily gut you. Well, at least koalas.
I saw some other idiot dressed like Steve Irwin on staff poking at a 14' croc with a stick,
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I did the 'hold a koala' thing. I was very careful, being fully aware those talons are razor sharp for climbing bark. Held the little fella as gently as I could, but I could still feel the points starting to dig in to my shoulder. Honestly, the tourist photo snap couldn't happen quickly enough but I survived.
Nowadays I don't think I'd be up for that, leave the guys alone... they're not house cats. Besides, they all have chlamydia.
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I also live in suburbia and have seen 4 tiger snakes lying across or near a footpath this summer while out walking the dog. Any one of these encounters could have resulted in death. Any park or path near a creek or river is something I'm very careful around right now.
Australia is trying to kill you but American teens are better at it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Shark attack down the hill from my apartment (Score:2)
A bull shark took a bite out of a woman's leg just down the hill from my Sydney apartment the other day. You can argue about whether swimming in the harbour is "stupid", but it's something a lot of people do.
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Seven days of which it felt like a complete day was dealing with logging into sites and filling out the same information over and over.
This isn't so much the internet's fault but eh United States lacking a centralized clearinghouse for medical billing. Every provider has to contract with a 3rd party billing firm who then contracts with another billing firm who then has to contact the billing firm the insurance provider contracts with to negotiate payment and there is no common data format so it's a world of endless intake forms, every doctor and pharmacy needs you DOB and nobody has access to records until you have to go and get them for
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The lack of centralization was a feature, not a bug. At least originally. The HIPPA fears that got that thing passed. It's had mixed effects. Sure, my employer knows jack shit about my actual medical conditions, but as pointed out, the form filling burden and liability concerns are pretty huge.
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It was a feature but it doesn't work. Decentralization has costs and our wildly inefficient healthcare system is the price we pay. It's an ideological decision to make it operate this way, not a results or process based one.
Your employer shouldn't be involved in your healthcare to begin with, that's another one of the huge inefficiencies we deal with. These are all pretty American problems as our system is a terrible hodgepodge of multiple providers, states, 3 different Federal medical systems and 50 di
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I don't disagree in general; I believed differently back then but i've gotten a little wiser over 30 years. That said, if you look at the health care system as a jobs program, you can see the clear incentive to not fix anything. This is one case where getting the government involved might *reduce* the number of people required to deliver a service. That's probably what has stopped the re-envisioning you are skirting around. Even the consolidation into larger practices caused by Obamacare resulted in a l
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It even fails as a jobs program though, the US has a pretty low ratio of doctor to population ratios, most countries with centralized systems do better on that front.
What we do have is an overabundance of billing and admin costs just to manage the wildly inefficient system we work in but that's literally just made up busywork.
Yeah agree the political will is not there but that is also imo strongly because of the dishonest framing Obamacare had to fight against for a good decade. It's not just peoples jobs,
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then you have been suckered by the non-stop propaganda programming you to believe that everything is the fault of workers and nothing is ever the fault of the (eminently guillotinable) owner class, the 0.01%.
Stop blaming your fellow victims. Understand that it's the cunts who own almost everything that are fucking you over because there's money in it for them.
Your fucked up abortion of a "health" "care" system is absolutely NOT a "jobs program". It's
Re: My nightmare after hours call (Score:2)
You made a series of mistakes here, my friend:
1. Never answer a call from work after hours.
2. Never answer any calls from work at night.
3. In fact, never answer ANY calls at night. Phone on silent. End of story.
4. Signing your job contract with them.
Article bias (Score:2)
I get the distinct impression from the way the summary is phrased that the article has a heavy "Look how good they already have it, and they want MORE, the leeches!" slant, rather than "It's actually possible to have these things in life. Fight for it, damn it!"
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Australia has become a place which has gotten used to sort of beating down expectations of workers rights. There have been a few wage theft scandals, a clear immigration policy which aims to import workers for the sole purpose of making them exploitable. The problem is that this has been going on for 20-30 years, so business have definitely gotten used to the idea that workers have no ability to make demands; don't like it? There are 20 immigrants who will happily do it for less... Immigration is specifical
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Two phones (Score:2)
I work with people in France and it's common, but a hassle for them to literally have two phones - one for work and one for personal that they tote around all the time. The work phone gets switched off at the end of the work day. It seems like their company (big multinational) couldn't work out how to comply with the law without just giving them a separate item to turn off. They are very observant of it too!
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I have two phones. When the company wanted me on call, I asked them to supply a phone for that purpose. No crossing of personal and work for me. They don't get access in any way to my phone, and I don't do anything to theirs that isn't at their request.
When I'm on call, the work phone stays on and the volume is up. If I'm not, it's scheduled to mute itself as soon as the work day ends and stay that way on a table until the next work day starts.
I highly recommend it.
Re: Two phones (Score:2)
A separate phone for work should be a golden standard, and not just for on call reasons. These days every single employer tries to con you into installing their software on your phone. Mail clients, authenticators, timesheets and what nots. The problem is that many, if not most, of those apps have very invasive permissions and some of them come with MDM which effectively gives your employer access and control to your personal data. This should never be allowed to happen. It's my device. If you require me to
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Realistically you could get away just enough power to run an MFA app and an email client. VOIP and/or IM would be a bonus. Data plan only unless you're fine restricting it to WiFi access. Doesn't need GPS or a camera or anything else.
Essentially, you're talking about a glorified security token and pager and the only thing you'd be asking an employee to hand over would be a tiny little sliver of their Internet bandwidth.
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In the company I work for (in France), we have the choice between an 2nd, company-supplied phone, and a BYOD option.
Most of the managers or people who tend to get more phone calls instead of mostly chat and e-mail messages choose the 2-phone option.
It is nice to have the choice, though each option has its disadvantages and constraints.
In any case, I do not feel the right to disconnect law here has been life-changing. People are a bit more careful to avoid messages after 8 Pm, but except for the few people w
Exclusion for IT (Score:3, Interesting)
I will bet money they carve out an exclusion for IT. I'm not sure why but seems like there is always an exclusion in laws like these for IT people. We get paid less than doctors an lawyers yet expected to work all hours all day everyday. No wonder the burnout is real.
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I will bet money they carve out an exclusion for IT. I'm not sure why but seems like there is always an exclusion in laws like these for IT people. We get paid less than doctors an lawyers yet expected to work all hours all day everyday. No wonder the burnout is real.
Knowing Australia, the exclusion will be that on call will need to be paid. Maybe up to the point where an award will be set. This isn't unreasonable, in fact in Australia when you have an on call requirement in IT you expect to get paid for the time you're on call, same as the UK. IT was one of the few industries where on call payments were commonplace.
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Re: Long service after seven years? (Score:2)
Varies by territory. I live in the ACT where we are able to claim LSL after seven years but in many states I believe you need ten years of continuous service to qualify.
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Im pretty sure the 7 years is national, its in federal IR law
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Calm down.Yanks (Score:2)
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Benefits (Score:2)
Australians already enjoy a host of standardized benefits, including 20 days of paid annual leave, mandatory paid sick leave, "long service" leave of six weeks for those who have remained at an employer for at least seven years, 18 weeks of paid maternity leave and a nationwide minimum wage of about $15 an hour.
I believe these are quite standard in developed countries, US being an exception on that front.
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But otherwise yeah.
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They don't mention that sick leave is limited to 10 days at full time equivalent though. Ok if you need an extra day off here and there (called "taking a sickie" in Australian parlance), or genuinely want to stay at home to fight a nasty flu, but kind of left in the lurch if you have something more significant to treat, and don't have additional benefits or insurance to cover it.
I also hated the fact that over the Christmas and New years period, a lot of engineering fields shut down, and force workers to ta
Simple solution: (Score:1)
Don't call unless the place is on fire.
Also don't make changes on a Friday or in the afternoon. Plan and test properly and you don't need to mess up peoples off time. I've managed 100s of employees. Not one had a reason to complain. 99.99% uptime for the last 5 years. You do it right and it all can get done in regular working hours or you just push it until the next morning.
Agile is part of the problem. Constantly pushing out "improvements" means you can't test properly. So something breaks and you get that