Tech Job Interviews Are Out of Control (wired.com) 163
Tech companies are famous for coddling their workers, but after mass layoffs the industry's culture has shifted. Engineers say that getting hired can require days of work on unpaid assignments. From a report: Nearly a dozen engineers, hiring managers, and entrepreneurs who spoke with WIRED describe an environment in which technical job applicants are being put through the wringer. Take-home coding tests used to be rare, deployed only if an employer needed to be further convinced. Now interviewees are regularly given projects described as requiring just two to three hours that instead take days of work.
Live-coding exercises are also more intense, industry insiders say. One job seeker described an experience where an engineering manager said during an interview, "OK, we're going to build a To Do List app right now," a process that might normally take weeks.
Emails reviewed by WIRED showed that in one interview for an engineering role at Netflix, a technical recruiter requested that a job candidate submit a three-page project evaluation within 48 hours -- all before the first round of interviews. A Netflix spokesperson said the process is different for each role and otherwise declined to comment. A similar email at Snap outlined a six-part interview process for a potential engineering candidate, with each part lasting an hour. A company spokesperson says its interview process hasn't changed as a result of labor market changes.
Live-coding exercises are also more intense, industry insiders say. One job seeker described an experience where an engineering manager said during an interview, "OK, we're going to build a To Do List app right now," a process that might normally take weeks.
Emails reviewed by WIRED showed that in one interview for an engineering role at Netflix, a technical recruiter requested that a job candidate submit a three-page project evaluation within 48 hours -- all before the first round of interviews. A Netflix spokesperson said the process is different for each role and otherwise declined to comment. A similar email at Snap outlined a six-part interview process for a potential engineering candidate, with each part lasting an hour. A company spokesperson says its interview process hasn't changed as a result of labor market changes.
It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:5, Insightful)
If a company has an unnecessarily torturous interview process - you leave, because now you know how they treat people when they have the power to get away with it. It won't get better once you're dependent on their paycheque.
Re:It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:5, Informative)
I had an interview once where it became obvious they'd already chosen an internal candidate and were just trying to extract as much knowledge from me as possible rather than pay a consultant.
I told them they'd have to hire me for further information and walked out.
Most people value immediate personal gain over ethics, especially when there is no risk of consequences for doing so.
Re: (Score:3)
You can't imagine being someone who is experienced enough to know what's going on and has the option to walk out and risk being wrong and losing an opportunity, or having the self-esteem and lack of respect for exploitative people to motivate them to do so, and you assume everyone else is like you.
Not only that, but even then you lack the courage of your convictions and post as AC to avoid people knowing what you are. Coward indeed.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
As a last step of the interview process we ask candidate tech positions to work for 1-3 days to get a feeling of the workplace, team, projects. He will take free days from other job, whatever. During this time he would setup a project and work on assigned tasks while getting paid the wage they want. NOBODY rejected this experiment. Most didn't even asked for money, others asked reasonably around the average payment for that position.
Of course, in your example I would be very happy to let you walk away ...
Sw
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Most didn't even asked for money
There's your solution right there. If they don't offer you the job, bill them for the hours you worked for them. I am not a lawyer, but I think you would have a pretty easy case to demand payment. (But you probably would never be able to apply there again.)
Re: It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:4, Interesting)
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Indeed. And the second thing is to make sure you are never desperate. The company you applies to shows its nature to you in the interview process. If the interview process is unpleasant, the work will be worse.
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Your reading comprehension is insufficient for this conversation. You think you posted a clever retort to my post, but you simply proved you didn't understand all the words.
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Why did you have to make an article about tech job screening into a mini rant about conservatives?
Do conservatives do job interviews differently at tech companies? Can you tell how someone votes based on their screening process?
Re: It's a good filter if you're not desperate (Score:2)
Who do you think owns and runs the companies? Liberals?
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These are tech companies, so YES!
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With very rare exceptions, yes, tech companies -are- run by liberals. And either way, so what? Why rant about politics on an interview article?
adversarial? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been through an interview process like this where they were specifically adversarial in their response to your take-home exercise. It was also a matrix type organization where the guy I worked for would be in a different office/city and we'd meet in person once per year or less. I found the adversarial process awful and I would never work there - if this is a sample of your environment you can keep it. They were hiring for people they could abuse.
ToDo list app (Score:3, Insightful)
"OK, we're going to build a To Do List app right now,"
Easy.
Edit a text file using emacs, put 1 task per line in order. Sub-tasks go underneath the umbrella task and indented by 1 tab (4 spaces works well). Insert "*** DONE ***" at the beginning of each completed task line.
You wanted a *team* based task list?
Easy.
Generate a spreadsheet on slack. put 1 task per line in order...
What other functionality did you need?
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Indeed. Simple solutions using existing tools are far too often overlooked. Also, did you catch this next part?
"OK, we're going to build a To Do List app right now," a process that might normally take weeks.
Weeks? Did everyone forget how to write software? Are modern development practices really that bad? Is the app to be developed and implemented exclusively using the front panel switches on a PDP-11?
What other functionality did you need?
Alerts and reminders.
Re:ToDo list app (Score:5, Funny)
You forgot to include the AI
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"requested that a job candidate submit a three-page project evaluation within 48 hours"
Grief. Bunch of whiny children. Work requires effort. If you don't want to work, why are you here?
I understand that work requires effort. I get paid for my effort. Full-stop. You want me to do work for you I expect to get paid for it.
Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Interesting)
At my BigCo, all of the developers get in the door as "full stack", but all seem baffled by the simplest html and css.
Given this experience, why WOULDN'T you check?
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:2)
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Let me fix that for you,
"your HR team doesn't understand". Full stop.
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:3)
A given, anyplace, but worse, the tech managers don't seem to know what "full stack" would entail, nor will they hire any front-end developers. Really disheartening.
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Hah, back in the 90s I had an interview where the HR rep actually gave me a programming test aobut C (ie, definitions and such, not actual programming on a board). Softball questions, very easy. But she was positive I got some of these answers wrong, even though the actual engineers disagreed. Didn't get the job.
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all seem baffled by the simplest html and css.
Ditto. So much ditto.
Re:Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's clear by the resumes I have been seeing that HR is using modern tools/services which get us precisely the candidate we want, based on our parameters. Which means they all mention the things we need on their resume and have NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR THEM. Nothing. Nada. And since the things they mention are anything they've touched, none of the candidates understand computing or why/how the things we want them to do work.
They're all young, which is a by-product of us asking for skills in these modern tools. Straight out of college, they started doing drag-and-drop computer work.
I finally realized that people in small towns are more able to get talent than us, because they will interview everyone in the pool and find the smart people. We're flooded with candidates, can't interview them all or even read all the resumes, and (thanks, modern search tools!) the losers sort to the top.
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Presumably they are already doing these shitty interviews with homework and hostile questioning, and clearly it's not working.
It's really not hard to see if someone has the skills they claim to. Ask to see a sample of their work, and talk to them about it. If it isn't at the right level, or they can't explain it and the decisions they took, you know they aren't the right person.
Re:Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Insightful)
Out of curiosity, how many developers come away with their code in a way they can share with a new employer? That does sound like a good way to weed out someone that will abuse your intellectual property.
You are half right, and its a tactic I use during interviews a lot. Show them code example with a known flaw, depending on the level of position you can make it more or less tricky but frankly finding the flaw is only part of the exercise. Explaining how they did the thing and why they made the decisions they did in resolution tell you a lot more about how the person thinks which is far more important than nitpicky skills which most people will pick up quickly when they actually are in need of said skills.
On network people I ask what their favorite switch or router is, the more important part is that they explain why they like it. It forces them to get technical and demonstrate how deep their knowledge goes. A lot of time I hear it's just what I know, and that immediately spells jr engineer for me.
Platform engineers, ask them to contrast some platforms they you expect them to have experience with. If their answer is shallow and only bullet points then their skills are not that deep and depending on the position you can weed them out or engineer they are offered a position at the right level.
I used to ask them what kind of car they drive and why, for younger people it is often a good indicator of whether they have their life together. You can drive a crap box if your reasoning is that choose to spend your money on other priorities, always important to make sure you don't inject bias. It's not always a good test, they might just come from a wealthy background. That's why the why part of the question is always important though.
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I find that most developers who are any good can show us some hobby code, or some open source code they contributed. Especially now that so much stuff uses GPL code.
If they really don't have any, they should write some. Think of it like a CV, but much more useful.
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I think something is up with your screening process.
I've got a load of stuff on github, but I found I was very much the exception. Almost no one I hired had anything public to show. Most things of note of mine on github was done as part of my day job because I happened to be in a situation where I could make some open source stuff.
I don't know if any of the best people I worked with had anything significant.
If they really don't have any, they should write some. Think of it like a CV, but much more useful.
O
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It really only needs to be one example, not an entire project. Just a function or two that demonstrates ability.
As for time, it's either that or they waste even more doing tests for multiple prospective employers. If employers are giving them assignments anyway, if rather just say to them that they can bring one if the assignments they did for someone else, or do their own.
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If it's just one function, then have them write it on an interview. I've got nothing against auditions, I.e coding screens, provided they are reasonable (no algorithmic tricks, done with an interviewer present).
That also rules out people who are good at bluffing, plus if its in person, to get the chance to discuss real time.
But the main thing is that the best people are generally not the ones to jump through hoops and doing take home assignments because they are actively recruited. I know what if I put git
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:2)
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There is not a wrong answer, it only serves to get to the know the person. If previous experience only supports one hardware platform then I move into what was the last outage they had to work through and what was the process they went through to get to resolution.
I don't believe in a lot of tests because conversationally you can almost always tell if someone is comfortable with a technology or not. If they are a network person and should know routing then you ask when they select ospf or bgp, or eigrp if
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:3)
"I used to ask them what kind of car they drive and why, for younger people it is often a good indicator of whether they have their life together"
They're trying to get their life together by getting a [better] job and YOU are standing in their way, you materialistic asshole.
Re:Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Interesting)
When we were hiring like crazy a few years ago I did a lot of on-campus job fair interviews. By the end of the day I was always ready to say, "Pick a language. Any language. Write 'hello, world'." Because so many people, even seniors graduating with a CS-related degree, were unable to answer even the simplest questions.
People give us shit for giving a simple coding test like, "reverse a linked list" for C programmers. But oh my god, the number of people who can bullshit their way through the phone interview but can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag is mind-boggling. (The test is done in-person and we talk through it with the candidate, giving hints where needed. We understand that people can choke under pressure. We don't care about misplaced semi-colons. Hell, I don't even care if you use a real language, as long as you can demonstrate that you understand the concepts. Too many people can't even do that much.)
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I led in-house interview of existing employees to be promoted to higher positions. One of them complained to management because one of my questions was:
If your IP is 10.0.0.91/29, what is your network?
I can't recall a single one being able to answer that correctly.
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Because the best you'd get from me is to take 91 / 8 , drop the fraction and take the whole number times 8.
What do you mean "the best you'd get from me" ?
That's all you need to solve the problem!
91 / 8 == 11
8*11 == 88
You need a "calculator" for that?
Thus, the answer is 10.0.0.88
Furthermore,
32 is 1 ip
31 is 2
30 is 4
29 is 8
see a pattern there? First grade mathematics...
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Bingo!
I did the exact same thing. But easier than a linked list.
At least half my candidates for "senior" positions who claimed many years of senior knowledge literally couldn't manage hello world.
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Yup, that's my experience. But you get the excuses. My favorite is "personally, I'd use a library to do that, why do you want me to do that myself?" Never mind that this is exactly what I was doing on the job, looking at a third party library and fixing the bugs in it. If they can't do simplistic linked list stuff, then I have no confidence that they could do something more difficult.
Many candidate would claim to do "middle ware", which they rarely had a good definition for. But from the evidence it se
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:2)
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:2)
Re: Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:2)
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Do people still use this synonym for duo?
Re:Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Insightful)
but all seem baffled by the simplest html and css.
That's because no one writes code any more. They cobble seemingly random things together into a monstrous amalgamation that I'm convinced only works by accident. Kids are so terrified of "reinventing the wheel" that they even act like they're ashamed to admit that they've written any themselves.
Given this experience, why WOULDN'T you check?
The problem isn't with checking to see if applicants can actually program, it's with the absurd interview processes companies are using. Just talking to a candidate about something interesting or relevant in their portfolio is often enough. Have them explain their reasoning for one part or another, ask them what they'd do differently and why, things like like that.
You could argue that ridiculous interview processes like the ones in the summary are good for keeping the worst offenders out, but know that it will also chase away better candidates. You know, the competent professionals that understand that an interview is a two-way process and know to back away slowly when they see the tunderdome out front.
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Their terrified because they've been told all their lives that it is taboo. That shalt not reinvent the wheel, the wheel is perfect, bless-ed be the wheel. I'm the opposite, as so many third party libraries are utter crap, and you can't just rely on them to work and you can't rely on the vendor to fix them in a timely manner, so be prepared to read and debug and test the third party code. Assuming the third party code will even fit on the board.
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That shalt not reinvent the wheel, the wheel is perfect, bless-ed be the wheel. I'm the opposite, as so many third party libraries are utter crap
Glad it's not just me. People are so desperate to not reinvent the wheel that they download one and it's really cool. It's got everything. It's made of a fancy alloy. It has spinners. It even has those synchronised light things so that you can display images on it while it's rotating. And of course a pluggable tyre system so you can easily configure tyres for any
Re:Maybe due diligence for a change? (Score:5, Funny)
My goal is that the new employee does not need coddling and hand holding on the job, and that I don't waste my day explaining how to program in C. My standards have lowered greatly over time, and yet it's getting harder to find people who are actually competent. Possibly they good people all want to go to more glamorous companies, or our recruiters are idiots, or some other reason. But sheesh, if their resume says "10 years of embedded development in C/C++/assembler", I would expect that they *should* know how to clear a bit in a register, but I am continually disappointed. Even a below average student should be smart enough to cram for the test the day before, so why doesn't a below average candidate do some cramming?
Worst someimes I felt were the hordes from Cisco (they like to hire and fire so there's a lot of churn). In their experience they were all in a silo and never understood the larger product. But their resumes all implied that they knew just about everything...
Me: Says here you worked on the NASA Mars Lander as a lead developer interacting with all phases of development.
He: Yes, it was quite a team.
Me: So let me ask you a few rocket science questions...
He: Woah, I don't really know the math there, other people did the calculations.
Me: No? Ok, so about your real time attitude correction algorithms is says you interacted with...
He: Well, I didn't do that either and am not sure what "real time" means.
Me: Ok then, what exactly on this resume here did you actually do?
He: Mostly we polished the clean room floors every night.
Me: And you led this team of janitors?
He: Well, it was just the two of us.
Me: And you had leadership experience?
He: I mean just myself and my supervisor...
Me: Hmm, let's start with some basic programming questio...
He: Why are you guys so mean!
It does tell you about the company (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who has been working in the tech industry for 40+ years I have seen a range of approaches. The best jobs I have had have usually come from personal contacts in the industry, not advertised jobs, and interviews typically involved sitting down over a coffee at a cafe discussing each others needs and concerns.
More recently I had a job interview that involved a coding test that actually took several days to write to the standard I usually produce code and then writing code on a white board during an interview. I was offered a full-time role with them but negotiated a contracting position with them as I suspected I would not want to work there long term. In working for them I could see why they took the approach they did and was glad I was a contractor. While the work was interesting I was micro-managed and they did not take full advantage of what I had to offer. I really saw them as a gap filler until the role I really wanted came along.
Re: It does tell you about the company (Score:2)
Ingenious but evil af (Score:5, Insightful)
This strikes me as an incredibly evil and underhanded way to get coding projects done without having to actually pay someone to do it.
1) Applicant submits interest in job
2) As an "aptitude test" they are assigned an extensive coding project the company wants completed
3) The company gets the completed project back from the applicant, who is then turned down for the position
Presto, free coding work....
Re:Ingenious but evil af (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe. Part of me would like to think so.
But I think you are severely overestimating the competence of people setting those inane interviews. Imagine the most arrogant developers you've had the misfortune to work with. You know the ones who can't ever build a simple thing but use ever project no matter how small to build the most complex framework they can using as many of the newest language features as they can get their mitts on. Now imagine them setting interviews.
Yes they'll be horrendously overcomplex. Also useless.
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Sometimes yes, sometimes no. One of my Google interviewers flat out admitted that what she asked me to do on the board was her current project and she was stuck. She thanked me, took a picture of my solution and I was later told I was too junior to work in her group, lol.
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I don't hold it against her. At least she was both honest and nice about it. I've had some really shitty interviewers that make her look like a dream.
Let's see... the guy who had already given notice asked me some Linux questions. I gave him an answer. He insisted I was wrong. I assured him I was correct. I was walked from the building on the spot. I checked on my phone in the parking lot. Guess what?
The guy who ran me through 2+ hours of those psychological questions that are supposed to determine
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There's nothing ingenious about doing something evil. Anyone could capture a slave and have them do their work for me, that doesn't make them a genius that makes them an amoral parasitic coward. And yes most people who do bad things are cowards or they'd announce it without fear of consequence. It's not a stroke of genius to steal something, all it requires is lack of caring about those who would be negatively affected by it.
Re: Ingenious but evil af (Score:2)
While it's useful for prospective employees to work on real things, it's a moral and ethical to pay them.
On interview homework: it's manipulative bullshit and wasting people's time if they don't even bother to evaluate this useless busywork.
Interview processes should be publicly exposed and critiqued. Shitty employers should be punished severely to prevent them from wasting the time of top talent.
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Wouldn't this work fall under the ownership of the applicant since its done on their time and not paid or even part of their job.
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Yeah no — any crap made during an interview isn't usable in real life, sorry. Real coding projects are much bigger than a student level assignment.
The fact they're asking for such arduous tests is also nuts.
For the last ~10 years my process has suited me well. I send a 1-hour coding exercise that is FUN (based on starwars API). I give a few loose requirements. Most people I know can finish it in ~30 minutes if that. I'm more interested in learning how well they take instruction as much as how they cod
Re:Ingenious but evil af (Score:5, Funny)
Recruiter: Thank you for your code, we are evaluating it now and will get back to you in the next two weeks or months or whenever.
Me: It was a very interesting project, I even through in some security flaws and back doors to see if your team can spot them. I'd hate to work for a team that couldn't do that.
Recruiter: You, uh, what?
Me: Ha ha, it'd be funny if you guys had continuous integration and my code was already out in the field!
Recruiter: Thank you for your time, I really have to make a few phone calls now...
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Probably. Sort of "get a new clueless applicant" for every sprint.
There's two sides of this coin. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Now everyone and their mom says they can code, know computers, etc.
The whole "Learn to Code" mockery meme started because authority figures in government and media indicated that laid off steelworkers, coal miners, etc, could just switch gears and become computer programmers instead. Software development is an intense, selective field that most people can't do, with years of preparation, but everyone from the President to NBC apparently thought it was like learning how to type, and whammo, in six weeks or so those coal miners were making iPhone apps.
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Indeed. The problem is that arrogant people tend to think anything they cannot do is easy. Not so and many things in the TSEM field you cannot even learn unless you have the right aptitude. Coding is full-custom engineering, i.e. the hardest discipline there. Sure, if you write simplistic business logic only and everything else is provided, somebody without an engineering mindset and education may do somewhat well. But anything more advanced? No chance, except for the rare unicorn.
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Nah the "learn to code" mockery meme was largely a misrepresentation (though a good lie always has a kernel of truth) to hide the fact that the people ultimately behind the mockery were outright lying about the options. Their "support" of coal miners was actually support of coal mining. They fully intended to lay off the former in droves anyway and replace them with ever more automation but they wanted a free pass to pollute freely and used the soon-to-be-redundant miners as an excuse.
Learning to code was n
Re: There's two sides of this coin. (Score:2)
There is no shortcut to hiring talent (Score:2)
Glad I'm Not a Developer Anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
I spent 25 years doing development within a large organization. I have production code operating in critical systems today in at least a dozen languages/technologies. C/C++, G2, Java, Oracle F&R, Python, Perl, SQL, bash... the list is just very long.
I had to be pragmatic and adaptable. I learned enough of some languages to do the one or two jobs I needed to do, and I mostly forgot it afterward. Give me an outcome and a set of guardrails, and I'll get the job done every time. And what I provide will be conservatively designed, and robust. Will it be optimal? Probably not. But it'll handle errors cleanly, provide good telemetry, be sufficiently performant, and relatively maintainable. Without doubt. The work will always get done.
But... I wouldn't pass a technical interview today. Not even close. Even in the stuff I know best, I keep the docs handy.
I would be one of the most useful people you ever chose not to hire. It's probably the good thing that I've got the PM hat on these days.
Re:Glad I'm Not a Developer Anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
One company in about 2003 or so I worked for had an interesting interview process. All they did was send me an IP address and SSH credentials. Once I ssh'd into their DMZ'd Linux box in a chroot jail, there was a README file in ~/ that had more instructions. It ended with the line "the kill timer started when you logged in" or something like that. It wasn't super difficult stuff, but a noob would have been lost.
Pair with us for a week before we decide to hire (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Pair with us for a week before we decide to hi (Score:3)
I was part of this method for hiring (Score:2)
The 10x rule (Score:2)
Now interviewees are regularly given projects described as requiring just two to three hours that instead take days of work.
The 10x rule is real. If the test is "supposed to take" 2-3 hours, but it takes you days to completely, maybe you're not a 10x developer.
Maybe the test is in fact absurdly difficult. If that's the case, you probably don't want that job anyway.
Demand goes both ways (Score:2)
A good candidate wants to land a good job. A good company wants to land a good candidate. If that dynamic is lopsided, there is trouble ahead.
If the candidate wants the job more than the company wants them, the candidate is setting himself up for a grueling, possibly abusive, work experience.
If the company wants the job more than the candidate, the company probably won't get much productivity out of the candidate, once hired.
Balance is key. If you're looking for a job, and there seems to be an imbalance of
It's not an interview (Score:3)
We really have become a mean-spirited and downright nasty country. There is absolutely no community spirit and no solidarity just a bunch of people hoping that they're going to be the one who gets to stab everyone else in the back. I think the kids aren't like that but it's another six or so years before they're going to be in charge and us old farts get put out the pasture and in the meantime we're going to do a lot of damage on the way out the door
Were they ever "in" control? (Score:2)
Companies, including tech companies, are notoriously bad at interviewing. This has been true for decades. During the interview, the company is putting their *best* foot forward. If that experience is unsavory for the candidate, what they will experience after being hired, will inevitably be much worse.
I find that most of the developers I hire, choose to take the job specifically because of the interview process. We have an engaging conversation, we dig into "why" questions more than "what" questions, we tal
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, and obviously so. It is not only the candidate applying to you, it is also you applying to the candidate. And it is massively unprofessional and a big red flag on the side of the potential employer to overlook that. A bad interview process can make sure you do not get access to good performers and may haunt you for a long time. Sure, you can still get the desperate, but do you actually want them? I know people that went for an offer that paid significantly less because they liked the people and the
Some SF startup (Score:2)
Had take-home assignments they never looked at, an arrogant AF/elitist/smug CTO, demanded architectural explanations of scaling MySQL without listening to the answers or asking questions. In the end, these douchebags literally pushed me out the door. These same morons wanted me to interview 3 years later and I told the recruiter to literally tell them to go fuck themselves.
When you act like an asshole, there should and must be resistance and retribution. The failure is when weak tech people fail to object
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When you act like an asshole, there should and must be resistance and retribution.
If you mean that, cough up their name. ...I'd then be able to avoid them.
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These same morons wanted me to interview 3 years later and I told the recruiter to literally tell them to go fuck themselves.
Not professional. What you do is to say sure, they can interview you as long as they like. Your daily fee is $1500.
Wring out the interview coaches (Score:2)
Some of the candidates we look at are sitting there on zoom with a interview coach in one ear telling them the answers, or sending them answers by remote desktop. It's fascinating until you've seen it a few times.
There was another guy who actually got hired right out of university. I got the feeling he didn't know a damn thing about anything, and his girlfriend was doing his work for him. Must have been some sort of arranged relationship because he was gross, never washed or changed his dirty sweats and sme
Whoa there, a ToDo list app can be done in hours (Score:2)
"OK, we're going to build a To Do List app right now," a process that might normally take weeks.
Reality check on this one, if you know what you are doing on iOS this can be done in a few hours.
One of the templates for creating new projects is a simple list app that adds a timestamp to a table every time you press a plus button... it would not take long to add a text field and a done timestamp to that, both UI and database...
I agree that online coding exams have become way more commonplace, along with take h
Change of heart (Score:2, Troll)
The last few I got back, one was lifted some sample code, and the candidate didn't filter out the example links. One of them was written using var instead of let and const, and when asked why he wrote the code that way, couldn't answer me. One didn't compile, literally r
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I don't think the story is about coding assignments that somebody competent can do in 30 minutes...
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I used to think take home programming tasks were dumb, until I started handing them out.
I still do. For me, a take home programming task is a "thanks but no thanks" to the company setting it.
The last few I got back,[...]
But you can tell that from an in person (or on video call) coding interview too.
Do you run Windows and think it's a professional environment? I don't care if you use it for testing or just check your code base, but if you use it as a primary OS, why? It shows you're not very competent.
Eh th
Overlooked Detail (Score:5, Funny)
Interviewer: Thank you for taking the coding test. We'll evaluate your work and get back to you.
Me: I registered the copyright.
Interviewer: I beg your pardon?
Me: I have a registered copyright on that code. That means if I catch you using it without my permission, I can collect statutory damages on a per-infringement basis. Further, since you've now been advised I have secured my rights, any infringement would likely be considered willful. You might want to let your boss and his boss know that willful infringement of a copyright for financial gain is a felony under 18 U.S.C. 2319.
Interviewer: What did you say?
Me: You can't afford me. Say hi to your wife and my kids.
This code has been redacted (Score:2)
Until you hire me.
Don't do it (Score:2)
Do not do unpaid work as part of a hiring process. Those that are serious about hiring you and willing to provide a reasonable work environment do not do such crap. It is a big red flag.
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I never did a technical interview. I worked in a break-fix shop in 1990 or thereabouts, and went Tech -> Tech Manager -> Help Desk Rep -> Network Admin -> Dev -> Tech Lead -> Supervisor -> Manager -> PM -> Consultant PM
Every transition was because I was in the right place at the right time, I demonstrated versatility and willingness to take on what I didn't know, and I was recognized for it. I had no post-secondary education. I've never been to university or college. But I was alw
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Re: What I hate are the Robot One Way Interviews (Score:3)
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Even the other way round it's weird. Weirder, even.
When companies try and recruit you and then half way through the process if you show interest ask you to do a bunch of work. Like... no? Google did this. I don't know if they were targeting me or it was just recruiters spamming linked in, but I wasn't searching, I had no time set aside for job hunting and had a (more than) full time job. Then they asked me to dedicate multiple hours to an algorithms exam, and recommended a substantial amount (days) of prep,
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As you should. I used to work in a sector where huge amounts of prep work was always required. I got insta-round filed a few times without it being read. I rather soured on that sector and the practice in general. Now I won't put in time without commensurate time from the interviewer. Neither will I ask for time I;m not prepared to put in.
Anything else is bullshit.
Re: We CAN fight back (Score:2)
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Indeed. Seems to be more of an US problem though.
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Is this like people complaining about how crappy Amazon is and are told not to buy from them? How has that worked out?
Yep. It requires ethical and more courage. It's the problem of people being too quiet and too compliant that enable this bullshit.
Never mind.
Re: MAANG self-defeat. (Score:2)