Homeless Man Tries to Steal Waymo Robotaxi in Los Angeles (msn.com) 93
A homeless man "was taken into custody on suspicion of grand theft auto," reports the Los Angeles Times, "after police said he tried to steal a Waymo self-driving car in downtown Los Angeles on Saturday night."
The man entered and tried to operate a Waymo vehicle that had stopped to let out a passenger at the corner of 1st and Main at 10:30 p.m., Los Angeles Police Department detective Meghan Aguilar said. After the man, whom a Waymo spokesman described as an "unauthorized pedestrian," entered the vehicle, the company's Rider Support team instructed him to exit the car. When he did not, the company contacted the police, "who were then able to remove and arrest" the man, said Chris Bonelli, a Waymo spokesman...
No injuries were reported by the rider, and there was no damage to the vehicle, Bonelli said. The car was stationary during the entire incident because an unauthorized person was identified by the company to be in the vehicle, according to Waymo.
No injuries were reported by the rider, and there was no damage to the vehicle, Bonelli said. The car was stationary during the entire incident because an unauthorized person was identified by the company to be in the vehicle, according to Waymo.
These car thieves (Score:5, Funny)
They really need to be waymo' careful about what they're trying to steal.
Re:These car thieves (Score:4)
The next user.
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You assume dirtier than the person who paid for the ride?
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He mistook it for a Johnnycab which has a manual override.
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It does have a manual override, it just isn't in the vehicle.
Next step, self delivery to the police station so the police don't have to come get him.
Robocop electrocution is discouraged.
Re:These car thieves (Score:5, Insightful)
Did he even actually try to "steal" the car, or is that just the police's spin on a homeless man looking for a place to sleep and refusing to leave the vehicle? Because my level of surprise at the latter would be "0%".
Re: These car thieves (Score:2)
Yeh, theyâ(TM)ll probably have a real tough time proving that his intent was to *permanently* deprive them of their vehicle
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Did he even actually try to "steal" the car, or is that just the police's spin on a homeless man looking for a place to sleep and refusing to leave the vehicle? Because my level of surprise at the latter would be "0%".
That was my first thought as well. Trespassing, perhaps, but GTA? I suspect it would be hard to make that case; especially since the car could not be driven by him and he probably was aware of that. I'm guessing he figured it would either nt move or just drive him around.
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A couple ways to defend either charge.
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"joyride the car." - How is that not auto theft?
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Consider, if he was looking for shelter, he's getting both shelter and food at the jail.
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Did he even actually try to "steal" the car, or is that just the police's spin
That was my first thought as well. Trespassing, perhaps, but GTA? I suspect it would be hard to make that case; especially since the car could not be driven by him
You misunderstand. He was simply arrested for playing GTA on the entertainment console.
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Did he even actually try to "steal" the car, or is that just the police's spin on a homeless man looking for a place to sleep and refusing to leave the vehicle? Because my level of surprise at the latter would be "0%".
I think a very good indication would be the seat he occupied - wouldn't it?
If he kept staying in the driver seat and refused to leave the vehicle it's really hard to imagine him looking for a place to sleep, if on the other hand he tried to accommodate himself on the rear passenger "bench" then yes - very likely just looking for a place to sleep.
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That aside, attempted thefts like this will probably keep happening because there are plenty of people too stupid for it to have occurred to them that Waymo (and every other autonomous car manufacturer) would have taken attempted theft into consideration and implemented ways to thwart it.
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So, what's the story then? (Score:1)
Seems to be very little tech or news in this one.
Re:So, what's the story then? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I don't remember who said "In the future, you will own nothing and be happy"
Ida Auken [wikipedia.org]
Re: So, what's the story then? (Score:2)
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Even if what he did was illegal (and the big tech companies have lobbied for a lot of things to be illegal), the man tried to make tech work for himself rather than for some big tech overlord.
Big Tech may have successfully lobbied for some controversial things to further their own interests, but "you're not allowed to get into someone else's car and refuse to leave" isn't one of them. I'd say that's been pretty well accepted since before computers existed.
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I disagree. This is part of the ongoing "war" between large tech companies and ordinary people.
I think you might be reading too much into it, it's just a story about a man trying (and failing) to steal a car. I'm not sure it's a commentary on tech vs the people.
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The whole "you will own nothing and be happy" thing was blown out of proportion. It was a short utopian essay, I read it a while ago. People misrepresent the "and be happy" part to be a threat, to mean "you'll accept the crap you're given and not complain, or else." The essay was more about how goods and services will become so cheap that it won't make economic sense to own certain things.
For example, let's talk about washing machines. Not owning a washing machine sucks, it means you either wash all your sh
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Yeah no news here. People attempting to steal driverless cars happens so often that there's not even a point in discussing it, and we all know the exact implications that fully autonomous vehicles have on the concept of carjacking ... wait what? How is this not tech or news enough for you?
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How is this not tech or news enough for you?
Man tries to steal car, owner calls police, man arrested. The only reason this story exists is that it's a "robotaxi", but that seems to add nothing to the story.
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Abandoned, unlocked vehicle (Score:2, Interesting)
He was just trying to remove a hazardous vehicle that has obviously been abandoned by its owner. There was no driver or owner in sight and the car was not turned off, not in park and not even locked. Give the man a medal.
Unauthorized pedestrian (Score:3, Funny)
Re: Unauthorized pedestrian (Score:3, Informative)
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And in California you can get a voucher from a social services office for a half-off ID fee waiver if you are receiving SNAP, or a full fee waiver if you are also homeless. It does not cover Real ID or a driver's license.
Re: Unauthorized pedestrian (Score:2)
Oh no, facts are flames now
You people are a bag of lames
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Some questions.... (Score:4)
OK, first, as a non-American: What is "grand" about grand theft auto and compared to that - what is small theft auto? Isn't it that you either steal a car or you don't?
And then: how did he try to steal it? Do those cars have any actual control that you could try to override (short circuit) or take any action that could actually lead to taking over control? If not, what action would qualify to be seen as trying to take over control of the car?
From that summary I can't see what happened besides a guy entering a vehicle that's part of public transport and refusing to leave. That's unallowed entry, squatting, obstruction of traffic and probably a small bunch from sitting on a drivers seat under various influence and littering.
Well, maybe he had the idea of stealing the car, but what action towards that goal could you take? Do those cars have any of the devices (door and ignition lock, steering wheel) that are usually needed to steal a car?
Re:Some questions.... (Score:4, Informative)
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Though the official spelling has been shifting some (so you're not wrong), traditionally it was "petit theft" (pronounced mostly the same) and based on French terms.
Grand = French for big
Petit = French for small
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If there is no way of taking control of the vehicle manually then he can't have been sitting in a driver's seat while intoxicated.
Re:Some questions.... (Score:5, Informative)
You seem confused, so maybe as an American I can help you to understand. "Grand" (meaning large) and "Petty" (from Petit, meaning small) come from French, and they have the same meaning in English (Even in "America"). Grand Theft is simply the theft of property that exceeds a value that is determined to be "large". What constitutes large is going to vary by jurisdiction.
I hope that clears up your confusion.
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Yes. Thank you. So stealing a car is always "Grand" as there are no cars that are in the price range of what you would probably shoplift.
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It's (grand theft) auto, not grand (theft auto).
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Usually, stealing a car is grand theft by legal definition. In California [findlaw.com], the usual threshold for "grand theft" is $950 but any automobile or firearm counts, even if the value is under $950.
In the other hand, all theft in California requires an intention to permanently deprive the owner of the property in question, and TFS doesn't make it obvious how that will be proven.
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Why are you bothering to ask questions about California when conservative news very clearly already gives you everything you want?
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Yes. Thank you. So stealing a car is always "Grand" as there are no cars that are in the price range of what you would probably shoplift.
When I was last on the grand jury 15 years ago, the dollar amount for grand theft was $100. Shoplifters were definitely in that category at the time. We saw some.
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Yes, they do have physical controls for safety reasons that a human can operate. If you bothered to spend 30 seconds to look this up rather than us doing your work for you, you would have know that. But I think you're being rheto
Re:Some questions.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Your comments remind me of a story I read in the Wall Street Journal years ago. A man sneaked onto a locomotive and took it for a joy ride. The gist of the story was about the law enforcement and prosecutorial dilemma of it all. The first instinct of "the law" was to charge him with theft. But, the locomotive never left the rails. As it was never off of railroad company property, it was not stolen. As I recall, the best they could come up with was trespassing and unauthorized use. I thought there was a certain irony or comedy in that, so I never forgot it.
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No, most of us Americans are just shocked about how stupid some people are with their entire world view being shaped by far right media.
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Just the fact that you seem to think it's inherently bad to protest against Israeli actions in Palestine and your incredibly one sided view of everything happening over there says a lot about you and it's not great on many fronts including on the topic of being an "informed" person.
Just take the fact that Israel has held the Palestinians in thrall for over a half century now all while continuing to bulldoze their homes and annex their land to build homes for their own people. How is anyone, anywhere surpris
Re: Some questions.... (Score:1)
"not giving a fuck about the fact that dead children is what Israel experienced first and then retaliated"
You seem to be trying to write a post about apartheid and terrorism in Gaza without being aware that Israel killed seven times as many Palestinians before this latest spate of hostilities as Hamas killed Israelis, or that Hamas never attacked a non-military target until after the Ibrahimi mosque massacre where an Israeli settler/invader murdered over 30 Palestinians including children, and the IDF murde
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Like when the cops charge someone with passively resisting arrest.
just don't change them with DUI as well as that wi (Score:2)
just don't change them with DUI as well as that will be bad for self driving cars
Another take (Score:5, Interesting)
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He did not try to steal it, he intended to be caught and put in jail 'cause for many people it's better than being homeless and not having the food or shelter that jail provides.
I watched a documentary on the rapidly ageing Japanese population, and they interviewed a pensioner that did exactly that. He would do a crime that would get him around a 1 year sentence (seemed to only require some minor shoplifting, but I guess he was a repeat offender) then he would hang in prison for a year. At the end of the year his pension payments would have accumulated in a savings account and he would be able to live off them for another year. Rinse and repeat.
It's pretty screwed up, but you have
Re:Another take (Score:5, Interesting)
My favourite example is from the USSR (sadly I don't remember the person's name). He was from a bourgeois family, and while he had survived recent purges, when he heard rumours that a new purge was likely coming, he was pretty certain he wouldn't survive this one. So he goes into town in the middle of the night. Breaks into a store. Fills a bag with goods. Then lies down and waits for the police to come and arrest him.
When the purge happens, he's serving out a short prison sentence. While many people in the west tend to view the Soviet legal system (and Russia today) as arbitrary, it's better thought as hyperbureaucratic - the policies may not necessarily align with the laws, but the policies are strictly carried out. And in the Soviet bureaucracy, there were different systems for common criminals and political criminals. He was now a common criminal, he'd been processed by the system and was serving out his sentence... thus he wasn't one of those political criminals outside the jail secretly working to undercut the glorious Soviet system. He survived the purge.
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Japan used to rely on children looking after their parents, but as people moved to cities for work that broke down. They also have an unusual property market, where property depreciates over time until it is worth nothing after about 50-60 years, i.e. the lifetime of the person who bought it new. At that point is is torn down and replaced with a new building.
As such, people don't build up massive property wealth like they do in the West, which can be used to pay for their care in old age. Often their childr
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People are commonly incarcerated for a week for repeat petty offenses. If he was just trying to get through a cold snap like the one we're having right now that includes a shitload of rain, it's a very reasonable plan. I see a lot of incarceration reports and they are very commonly for less than 30 days.
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How do you make the jump that something which moves automatically cannot be owned? WAYMO owns the car. They are the owner. It can be stolen from them.
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Whaddya talking about? A driver may or may not be a car's owner... Think rental car or lending to a friend. Theft is with respect to the owner, Waymo, and has no nothing to do with any driver.
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Lots of theft involves the owner not being present. Robbery requires the owner or a custodian to be present because an element of robbery is the use of force, or threat of force, as part of taking property.
And a driverless car definitely has an owner. It just doesn't have a driver. The existing laws against automobile theft don't depend on the car having a driver or the driver being present, only on someone trying to permanently deprive the owner of the personal (as opposed to real, not as opposed to cor
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Boy, when they said the concept of ownership would become lost on people, they sure as shit weren’t kidding.
According to your theory on law, every parked car on the planet is free for the taking if it’s lacking a driver inside. Just let that sink in like a slap to the face when you walk out to your empty parking spot.
Next Step of the Dystopia (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure I've seen a black mirror episode about this. Next they will have to hire people to protect all these robo vehicles from vandalism. But they won't want to hire people because *dollars* so they will replace them with robots. Robot dogs specifically. With guns. Eventually the robots are gunning down homeless people who are trying to steal from rubbish bins because rich people will own the rubbish as well.
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Eventually the robots are gunning down homeless people who are trying to steal from rubbish bins because rich people will own the rubbish as well.
Fun fact: In my jurisdiction, trash is not "public property" or otherwise for the taking, and if someone absolutely wanted to press charges then yes, taking something from the rubbish bin would be theft.
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That says a lot about the kind of things people throw away where you live. Where I live, there are people who scrape a living by going through the bins (which, yes, says a lot about where I live), but they're looking for metal to sell to scrap merchants rather than items which look new.
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That is the case in the UK too, and people have been prosecuted for it.
You can also screw up someone's life by stealing their rubbish and fly tipping it. As long as it can be traced back to them, e.g. there is some mail with their name and address on it, eventually they will be prosecuted for illegally dumping their rubbish. It's one of those situations where the onus is on them to prove they didn't do it, which of course is impossible.
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I remember reading about this a long time ago. Which is why I never throw out anything with my name and address on it. Any address/account details on letters, parcels etc. are removed and burnt (with letters etc. being shredded before being put in the recycling bin :)
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True, but those would be different things (trespassing on my property vs. stealing my trash).
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Total Recall (Score:2)
Because vanlife is a thing (Score:2)
"unauthorized pedestrian"? (Score:1)
Most likely wanted to ride/sleep (Score:2)
Should have taken a lesson from KITT. (Score:2)
Once the homeless person was in the car, it should have driven him to the police station (or donut shop, if closer) to be arrested.
convenient location (Score:1)
A shame really (Score:2)
It's rather a shame that this homeless man did not succeed in stealing the car. It would be one less driverless taxi (read "automated traffic hazard and pedestrian killing machine") on the street mindlessly running over people, interfering with emergency vehicles, and the like.
ATMOS (Score:2)
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Re: ATMOS (Score:2)