America's Justice Department Opens Criminal Investigation Into Boeing's Window Blowout Incident (apnews.com) 64
America's Department of Justice "has launched a criminal investigation into the Boeing jetliner blowout that left a gaping hole on an Alaska Airlines plane," reports the Associated Press, citing a report from the Wall Street Journal.
"As part of the new investigation, the Justice Department has interviewed pilots and flight attendants on the flight..." the Journal reports. "Investigators have taken steps to begin notifying Alaska passengers on board during the Jan. 5 accident that they are potential crime victims in the case, according to a document viewed by The Wall Street Journal." The probe would inform the Justice Department's review of whether Boeing complied with an earlier settlement that resolved a federal investigation following two fatal 737 MAX crashes in 2018 and 2019. Investigations don't always result in formal charges of wrongdoing.
Separately, investigators with the Transportation Department's Inspector General's office in recent weeks have been seeking to interview Federal Aviation Administration officials in the Seattle area who oversee Boeing's manufacturing...
If the Justice Department finds that Boeing violated the terms of the 2021 settlement, the company could face prosecution on the original count of defrauding the U.S. Alternatively, the government could seek to extend the probationary, three-year agreement that requires Boeing to update the Justice Department on its compliance improvements.
In a related development, Boeing "has acknowledged in a letter to Congress that it cannot find records for work done on the door panel of the Alaska Airlines plane," reports the Associated Press: "We have looked extensively and have not found any such documentation," Ziad Ojakli, Boeing executive vice president and chief government lobbyist, wrote to Sen. Maria Cantwell on Friday. The company said its "working hypothesis" was that the records about the panel's removal and reinstallation on the 737 MAX final assembly line in Renton, Washington, were never created, even though Boeing's systems required it.
Not having the documents "raises concerns about quality assurance, quality management safety management systems within Boeing," said the chair of the National Transportation Safety Board earlier this week.
"This is a serious, potentially illegal, lapse in standard aviation manufacturing quality processes," reports the Seattle Times.
Meanwhile, America's National Transportation Safety Board is also investigating a United Airlines Boeing 737-8 flight "that last month experienced 'stuck' rudder pedals," reports Axios, "after touching down in Newark, per a preliminary report released Thursday." The captain reported that during the landing rollout, which is after touchdown but before the plane slows to taxi speed, the pedals did not respond to foot pressure and remained stuck. "The captain used the nosewheel steering tiller to keep the airplane near the runway centerline while slowing to a safe taxi speed before exiting the runway onto a high-speed turn-off," the report states.
Shortly after, the rudder pedals began to operate normally, the captain said. There were no injures and the airplane was removed from service for maintenance and troubleshooting. An inspection found no obvious malfunctions, said the National Transportation Safety Board. After removing the rudder system components, United conducted a second flight test and found the rudder controls operated normally, per the report. "With coordination with United, the issue was successfully resolved with the replacement of three parts and the airplane returned to service last month," Boeing said in a statement, adding that this is the only report of such an issue that they've received for the 737 MAX fleet.
The investigation is ongoing.
"As part of the new investigation, the Justice Department has interviewed pilots and flight attendants on the flight..." the Journal reports. "Investigators have taken steps to begin notifying Alaska passengers on board during the Jan. 5 accident that they are potential crime victims in the case, according to a document viewed by The Wall Street Journal." The probe would inform the Justice Department's review of whether Boeing complied with an earlier settlement that resolved a federal investigation following two fatal 737 MAX crashes in 2018 and 2019. Investigations don't always result in formal charges of wrongdoing.
Separately, investigators with the Transportation Department's Inspector General's office in recent weeks have been seeking to interview Federal Aviation Administration officials in the Seattle area who oversee Boeing's manufacturing...
If the Justice Department finds that Boeing violated the terms of the 2021 settlement, the company could face prosecution on the original count of defrauding the U.S. Alternatively, the government could seek to extend the probationary, three-year agreement that requires Boeing to update the Justice Department on its compliance improvements.
In a related development, Boeing "has acknowledged in a letter to Congress that it cannot find records for work done on the door panel of the Alaska Airlines plane," reports the Associated Press: "We have looked extensively and have not found any such documentation," Ziad Ojakli, Boeing executive vice president and chief government lobbyist, wrote to Sen. Maria Cantwell on Friday. The company said its "working hypothesis" was that the records about the panel's removal and reinstallation on the 737 MAX final assembly line in Renton, Washington, were never created, even though Boeing's systems required it.
Not having the documents "raises concerns about quality assurance, quality management safety management systems within Boeing," said the chair of the National Transportation Safety Board earlier this week.
"This is a serious, potentially illegal, lapse in standard aviation manufacturing quality processes," reports the Seattle Times.
Meanwhile, America's National Transportation Safety Board is also investigating a United Airlines Boeing 737-8 flight "that last month experienced 'stuck' rudder pedals," reports Axios, "after touching down in Newark, per a preliminary report released Thursday." The captain reported that during the landing rollout, which is after touchdown but before the plane slows to taxi speed, the pedals did not respond to foot pressure and remained stuck. "The captain used the nosewheel steering tiller to keep the airplane near the runway centerline while slowing to a safe taxi speed before exiting the runway onto a high-speed turn-off," the report states.
Shortly after, the rudder pedals began to operate normally, the captain said. There were no injures and the airplane was removed from service for maintenance and troubleshooting. An inspection found no obvious malfunctions, said the National Transportation Safety Board. After removing the rudder system components, United conducted a second flight test and found the rudder controls operated normally, per the report. "With coordination with United, the issue was successfully resolved with the replacement of three parts and the airplane returned to service last month," Boeing said in a statement, adding that this is the only report of such an issue that they've received for the 737 MAX fleet.
The investigation is ongoing.
I really want to support Boeing but (Score:5, Insightful)
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It seems like they’re just plain getting sloppy. Which is fine if you’re manufacturing toilet paper or mousepads. It’s a slightly bigger issue if you’re making, oh, say, commercial jets.
No I would not say it's fine if you're manufacturing toilet paper, but I take your general point.
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The whole problem goes back to cost-cutting, or "profit-increasing", shortcuts. They did not want to go through the whole process of certifying a new design so they bent the rules and did everything they could to make a new design without making something that would need to be certified again. Bad idea.
The problem is, those shortcuts came back and continue to bite them in the ass. People died because of it. The certification process is there for a reason. Maybe the CEO doesn't actually need to that new yatc
Re: I really want to support Boeing but (Score:2)
"Maybe the CEO doesn't actually need to that new yatch. Maybe continuous profit increases year over year in a down market are not actually possible."
Don't be ridiculous.
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Which is fine if youâ(TM)re manufacturing toilet paper
That's how you get a surprise butthole inspection while you're trying to do your morning paperwork. NOT FINE.
My favorite part (Score:4, Insightful)
Is where Boeing admits they have NO documentation for the bolts on the plug which fell out.
Gives me the warm fuzzies knowing they take such good care to verify everything. After all, what's a few bolts among friends?
Must be why former Boeing employees absolutely refuse to fly [politico.com] on Boeing planes, especially the Max [businessinsider.com].
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Hehe, do they have _any_documentation of _any_ of the parts being assembled into an aircraft? How many quality assurance documents were signed by Mickey Mouse on the 35th of Fleemtember ?
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Re:My favorite part (Score:5, Informative)
Whistleblower Report Part 1 - https://leehamnews.com/2024/01... [leehamnews.com]
Whistleblower Report Part 2 - https://leehamnews.com/2024/01... [leehamnews.com]
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Is where Boeing admits they have NO documentation for the bolts on the plug which fell out.
Turns out that they do. It just took the NTSB going public [reuters.com] about the foot-dragging for it to miraculously materialize.
Interesting note: "We have no documentation" may turn out to be a violation of 18 U.S.C. Â 1001 [uscourts.gov]. Ask Martha Stewart. At any rate, it's usually a better move to just say "I forgot." There are no Federal laws against being a moron.
Re: My favorite part (Score:1)
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Which is what the NTSB wanted. Do you think they want to talk to Boeing management about what was done and what paper was completed? Or the people actually doing the work?
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Million Dollar reward for worker who fesses up (Score:3)
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At this point (Score:4, Insightful)
It's clear by now that it's time to fire all those in leadership roles at Boeing and appoint top engineers to fill those seats. The bean-counting mentally has obviously proven to be a failed experiment. Those fired must be held accountable for the lives lost during their leadership roles. Send a message to other companies that hold lives in their hands that this will not be tolerated.
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If you're going to have a monopoly supplier you need to regulate it. America is not good at that, largely due to the corruption that is built into the political process.
There are way too many jobs (and votes) at stake.
You can't really fire leadership anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
You either bring democracy in the form of gov't to bear on them or you accept their rule and pray to your preferred deity that it's a benevolent one.
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If you look into it you'll find CEOs all come from the same pool of Private Equity Firms and Management Consultant businesses. They're the new ruling class. You can't fire them any more then you can fire the King. You can shuffle 'em around a bit, but that doesn't change the underlining issue, which is that you have a small, incestuous group of insanely powerful men and women who all take care of each other.
You either bring democracy in the form of gov't to bear on them or you accept their rule and pray to your preferred deity that it's a benevolent one.
Erm... I don't disagree with the gist of your post but I feel the need to point out that we have, indeed several times in the past, fired the king. Sometimes, quite literally although usually the vanquished monarch goes into exile. The current King of the United Kingdom CR III's previous namesakes are good examples. Charles I saw the end of the monarchy and 11 years of rule by parliament in 1649, Charles II saw a military government installed after his defeat which lasted for 4 years before parliament elec
Re: At this point (Score:2)
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YES, 100%..."Career MBAs" have taken the place of engineers and others working their way through the ranks of the company, an
Never should have done the Max (Score:2)
As much as market conditions left them with no good solution, the Max was a mistake from the beginning. There is just way too much in the way of grandfathered systems. That said... I am not confident at this point Boeing would have done much better with a clean sheet design.
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How was the Max a mistake from the beginning? The only problem with the Max was MCAS which they introduced to avoid recertification of pilots. Without the MCAS, the Max flys just fine and existing 737 pilots only need a brief training.
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This is the best explainer I've seen so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Re:Never should have done the Max (Score:4, Insightful)
The 737 still has mechanical linkages from control surfaces to the cockpit (likely the cause of one of the problems listed), a grandfathered exit slide setup with a history of issues, landing gear that is too short for the engines... the list goes on. What it does have though is a smaller cross section than the 320 leading to a lighter aircraft that could still be marginally competitive on fuel burn and cost. There is a long list of systems that don't work great, but are part of the approved design so they cannot be easily improved.
The initial plan was to wait another 5-6 years and do a clean-sheet New Small Aircraft. When Airbus announced the NEO and American Airlines bought a bunch, Boeing changed plans and just went with the Max.
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There was no air foil problem. The 737 Max was completely stable. It just didn't behave exactly like the older 737. In order to avoid a minor retraining of pilots, Boeing introduced MCAS. MCAS was the problem. Look it up. Multiple pilots will attest to this. And yes, they didn't reveal the existence of MCAS which lead to multiple crashes.
Only now? (Score:5, Insightful)
But what's surprising to me that this kind of thing didn't happen with the MCAS fiasco. THAT was malicious negligence. They designed (poorly) a flawed system with way too much automated control to overcome having to actually have to do real engineering work on a new plane. They assumed that is worked fine with likely the same or worse QA pipeline that missed the door plug issue. But the WORST part is that they intentionally hid it from pilots, FAA, etc (it wasn't even in the manual). It caused hundreds of deaths. They at first tried to blame it on "pilot error." Which worked well for them since... to be blunt... the color of their skin and an American bias that the darker your skin is, the more incompetent you are.
Turns out that, no.... Boeing cut every cornet they possible could in pursuit of profits and tried to patch it in software resulting in the deaths of 346 people. And yet, somehow they walked away basically scot-free. The entire strategy behind MCAS was criminally negligent manslaughter at best. At worst, I dunno second degree mass murder?
And before the door plug event, Beoing was very close to being granted safety excemptions for the MAX 7 and MAX 10. Are you fucking kidding me?
On a personal note, I find this interesting for a number of reasons. The first is that I see this kind of thing happening at so many companies (and destroying whatever reputation they may have had - I call it the "Curse of the MBA") And secondly, I was supposed to be on a MAX 8 on the thursday, but they grounded all of them the tuesday I before I was supposed to fly.
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The first is that I see this kind of thing happening at so many companies (and destroying whatever reputation they may have had - I call it the "Curse of the MBA") And secondly, I was supposed to be on a MAX 8 on the thursday, but they grounded all of them the tuesday I before I was supposed to fly.
Yeah. But don't forget the Accounting teams. MBAs and accountants are a deadly mix.
I have to take exception to your clam your concept that America and all americans are racist, I have to tell you that While the world sees all of us Americans as the worst sort of racists, while the rest of the world is a color blind melting pot where no one is judged by the color of their skin. Well, some people want to believe that, but it ain't so. And history shows that there is plenty of racism world wide.
Bad phra
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I have to take exception to your clam your concept that America and all americans are racist, I have to tell you that While the world sees all of us Americans as the worst sort of racists, while the rest of the world is a color blind melting pot where no one is judged by the color of their skin. Well, some people want to believe that, but it ain't so. And history shows that there is plenty of racism world wide.
Bad phrasing perhaps?
He said America has a bias. He said nothing about the rest of the world. Judging by your reply, you actually agree with him.
Bad reading perhaps?
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I would say it is a QA issue if it were a mistake. From what we are learning, these QA issues have been ongoing for years. Also it appears that Boeing has been caught withholding documentation. Presumably because they do not have it or they do not want anyone to see it. At what point is the problem systemic?
In the MCAS fiasco, Boeing tried to blame the pilots outright. For this problem they hinted that it might have been the fault of their supplier, Spirit Aerosystems, as Boeing "never" removed the door p
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No you don't understand heavily regulated industry. Quality Assurance issues are precisely what can be defined as criminal negligence since QA processes are heavily regulated.
On the flip side MCAS was just a flawed design, poorly executed and rolled out without any regulations or laws that would actively prohibit its use. Dumb engineering decisions do get made, but they are rarely considered a criminal case. Even your wording "malicious negligence" is not a thing in the legal world. You may be referring to
While you're at it (Score:2)
Investigate the FAA for dereliction of duty.
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Only State DMV offices are worse.
We'll remember you the next time you come in for a driver's license renewal. We promise; your picture will not look good.
- State DMV
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Implying that any government regulator anywhere conducts a 100% review of everything in the industry? Sure you can "fix" the FAA. Just as soon as you agree to raise taxes and have big-government involvement in your lives. Good luck getting that across the line anywhere in America.
Big news! Sexy! (Score:1)
Uh oh (Score:4, Informative)
In a related development, Boeing "has acknowledged in a letter to Congress that it cannot find records for work done on the door panel of the Alaska Airlines plane,"
Uh oh.
As someone who worked at Boeing way back when, I can tell you that this is very, VERY bad news.
Literally everything done to a plane is supposed to be documented. From replacing an engine to checking the air in the tires, everything must be fully documented and signed off, even if it's just a note that says "Nothing to report."
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Re:Uh oh (Score:4, Informative)
Checking the pressure of tires generates a document - it lists the tire pressure of all the tires and the resolution if they were high or low, and the new pressure measurement.
This generates a line in the logbook and the document with the tire pressure readings gets filed with the maintenance logs.
And yes, an accident was caused by low tire pressure causing the tires to catch fire and cause the plane to crash. The documents with the tire pressure readings were forensically analyzed and found to have been doctored to show normal tire pressures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
One of the reasons aviation is so safe is the mass amounts of documentation that is available for investigators to get to the root cause of problems and try to come up with a solution to solve it.
What about the Toyota bashed by a jet tire? (Score:2)
Can "the public" find out how the guy was treated whose Corolla was smashed by a tire falling off a United B-777 departing LAX?
Did the insurance carrier for United take the liberty of declaring the car a "total loss" and make the dude/dudette a low-ball offer for the retail value of the car before being smashed, less the "salvage" value from the scrap yard?
Or did they make a good-will offer of a new-car replacement owing to the notoriety of a tire falling off a jet? Or is their position that if you ch
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They'll apply some percentage of blame on him for not keeping his car under a concrete and steel protective structure, the same way they blame people who aren't at fault in a car accident for just "being on the road". I am not joking.
Even from general aviation (Score:2)
I was a parachute rigger. No repack or patch was complete until logged and signed off.
What Boeing is claiming is unthinkable. It's much easier to believe that they are doing a coverup, which I hope can be prosecuted.
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Yeah. My daughter was just on a plane that was delayed for three hours because some idiot forgot to sign off on something, and they had to go find him.
the lack of documentation here is both scary and... convenient
SAD! (Score:1)
They need help, not an investigation! I will enact tax cuts for domestic airplane production if reelected! #trump2024
Tail number (Score:3)
Can we get the tail number of the rudder pedal jet?
They couldn't find anything wrong, replaced three parts, and sent the plane into service without knowing if it fixed the intermittent problem.
I don't want to fly on that plane.
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At this point I'd avoid Boeing aircraft entirely if possible. Airbus, Bombardier, Comac, Fokker, Embraer...
Labor issues at fault? (Score:1)
And I'm not kidding, either.
Reason: Boeing management have had a lot of historical clashes with the two unions that represent Boeing workers in the Seattle area, the Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA) and the International Association of Machinists (IAM) District 751. This is why are these labor clashes that could result in potential industrial sabotage by SPEEA or IAM workers. Indeed, the door blowout issue sounds like something Boeing line workers might do to protest Boeing
Malice less likely than incompetence. (Score:2)
Sabotage would be a fine way to get prison time. Aviation isn't supposed to be like the auto industry (where any crack monkey can get hired) and sabotaging systems made by the professional workforce their union is intended to protect would be bizarre.
OTOH spreading production far and wide purely to cut costs means hiring from non-aviationist worker pools and those are very different from humans immersed in aircraft and parts manufacture for decades.
There's a tradeoff here (Score:3)
Aviation culture has resisted criminal penalties in general. Yes, prison can make people afraid of screwing up, but it can also make them afraid of revealing mistakes so they can be fixed and learned from.
It sounds like the investigation is for breaking the non-prosecution agreement rather than for making a flagrant blunder.
Speaking of getting people to own up to mistakes, there's an anonymous reporting system where people can safely describe a situation even if they screwed up. Then the reporting system issues a tracking number. Then if there's ever enforcement action, the tracking number turns into a get out of jail free card.
McDonnellDouglas was in a position to be bought... (Score:4, Insightful)
for a reason... BAD MANAGEMENT. When a major corporation Like Boeing, McDonnell, IBM, Xerox, 3M, etc is successful for decades and has a range of solid products that are in demand, it is well-established and proven that the vast majority of the "worker bees" (the office people, the engineers, the technicians, the production people, purchasing people, shipping&receiving people, etc) are able to do their jobs well and are doing their jobs well. When such a large well-established and profitable company falters, it is ALWAYS the fault of management. It's failure of management to anticipate market or industry changes, failure to allocate resources properly, failure to do sufficient R&D so there will be a next-generation product, replacing internal workers to outsource to cheaper less-competent workers, etc.
When the Boeing board kept the McDonnell management and retired the old Boeing management after the big merger between Boeing and McDonnell Douglass, the stage was set for corporate disaster...it just took a bunch of years for the newly-merged corp to run out of the fumes of success of the old Boeing management team.
At this point, it's pretty clear that what's happened is not just incompetence, but outright criminal wrong doing... the only surprise here is that somebody at DoJ is actually looking into it. EVERYTHING in the construction of airframes in the American aerospace industry is highly-regulated and well-documented. Personally, I consider it to be too well-documented. Those of us who have worked in this arena have encountered many instances of what seems a ridiculous amount of paperwork - sometimes to the point of being counter-productive. If Boeing is now claiming that there's no paperwork, then either somebody built something without the papers (criminal) or they built it with the papers and then lost/destroyed them (criminal). There's no escape here, well short of the documents magically re-appearing, which is unlikely since they will highlight SOMEBODY's wrongdoing. I sure hope all the assembly workers at Boeing are able to demonstrate that THEY are not the ones who made the paper disappear; management is not going to want to take the fall and will probably do everything in their power to throw some worker under the bus (and into a jail cell)
ALL of Boeing's current management needs to go, NOW. The Boeing board needs to beg borrow and cheat if necessary to get any of Boeing's old management back to at least help them select, build, and train-up a new era of hyper-competent management to replace the bargain basement team they got with the McDonnell merger.
Disclaimer: while I have worked with some of the old Boeing's engineers and pilots, I have no personal connections with old Boeing's management, so I'm not pushing the management issue due to some personal connection to either management team. The MCDonnell crew simply suck and are simultaneously bringing down the greatest aerospace firm around AND killing innocent people. I used to insist that family members only fly (when flying commercially) on Boeing aircraft, but right now If it's a choice between a recent Boeing airframe (newer than the 777) and an Airbus 3xx, they're better off on an Airbus (though I'm not a fan of the 380)
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The Boeing board needs to beg borrow and cheat if necessary to get any of Boeing's old management back to at least help them select, build, and train-up a new era of hyper-competent management to replace the bargain basement team they got with the McDonnell merger.
Nah, the merger happened more than 25 years ago. Boeing's *old* management is traveling, playing golf, and spending time with their grandchildren. I don't wish this shit-show on them.
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All of the Boeing board members who voted to use McD's management instead of Boeing should be required to fly coach on only Boeings for the rest of their lives, and always have to sit next to the doors or door plugs. The board is ultimately at fault here, they are the ones who chose that path. Unfortunately the whole corporate structure and ultimately our body of laws is designed to protect them.
About MFing time!!! (Score:2)
Modern day corporate activity (Score:2)