Amazon Ditches 'Just Walk Out' Checkouts at Its Grocery Stores (gizmodo.com) 161
Amazon is phasing out its checkout-less grocery stores with "Just Walk Out" technology. The company's senior vice president of grocery stores says they're moving away from Just Walk Out, which relied on cameras and sensors to track what people were leaving the store with. From a report: Just over half of Amazon Fresh stores are equipped with Just Walk Out. The technology allows customers to skip checkout altogether by scanning a QR code when they enter the store. Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. The cashiers were simply moved off-site, and they watched you as you shopped.
Instead, Amazon is moving towards Dash Carts, a scanner and screen are embedded in your shopping cart, allowing you to checkout as you shop. These offer a more reliable solution than Just Walk Out, whose impressive technology was truly ahead of its time. Amazon Fresh stores will also feature self check out counters from now on, for people who aren't Amazon members.
Instead, Amazon is moving towards Dash Carts, a scanner and screen are embedded in your shopping cart, allowing you to checkout as you shop. These offer a more reliable solution than Just Walk Out, whose impressive technology was truly ahead of its time. Amazon Fresh stores will also feature self check out counters from now on, for people who aren't Amazon members.
Ahead of its time? (Score:5, Insightful)
>>whose impressive technology was truly ahead of its time
Other than being done remotely, how exactly is hiring a human being to follow customers around and bill them for what they take "ahead of its time"? More like a throwback to the (very) old days of picking something off the shelf and telling the shopkeeper to "put it on my tab". The only "innovation" is the off-shoring of labor (which in this day and age is hardly innovative).
Re:Ahead of its time? (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed, it's less "impressive technology ahead of its time" and more "nice idea ahead of the technology".
They were likely counting on AI catching up quickly to avoid having that labor all together. Get the cost of AI mistakes down to less than the cost of labor and you win.
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I'm going to miss it, I can go into the Fresh store down the hill, buy 6 things, and leave in less time than it takes just to wait in line for a cashier or the self-check terminals.
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Re:Ahead of its time? (Score:5, Informative)
Because it's not an accurate description of the process, is why (check the link they cite, though it's paywalled). It was not "remote human beings following customers around and billing them for what they take". It was an automated system, but because it was still in development and not yet trustworthy, they then had humans review every transaction to see if they agreed. In most cases, they did. In cases where they did not, this became training data for the automated system.
It's unknown how reliable they ultimately got it, what the failure rate was. But the thing is, its competition - having users scan their own items as they put them into their cart - is probably no more expensive to implement, but still lets you offload all checkout labour (except surveillance for shoplifting) to customers themselves. Users lose out on convenience, but from a corporate perspective, it won out.
Re:Ahead of its time? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Users lose out on convenience
Talking about versus a 'walk out with your groceries' or versus 'having to go through a cashier'?
Technically speaking, self scan at the cart is a *tad* more work, but hardly worth mentioning. The same action you were doing to pick up the item takes a slight detour to get scanned.
Compared to going through a cashier? That always sucked, there was nothing convenient about that. Self-checkout is significant improvement, but spreading that over the trip when you can take your time is more convenient than havin
Re: Ahead of its time? (Score:3)
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PHB: "We invented the Homo-Sapien-based product purchase verbal cross-checking system to augment our store management AI for advanced quality assurance!"
Naive Investor: "Sounds brilliant!, I'll take 10,000 shares of your stock!"
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US Government: "Patent granted."
Apple is way ahead of them. (Score:5, Funny)
I've seen this implemented in the Apple store in Oakland.
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I just haven't figured out how to enroll in it.
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I think they require five fingers for that discount.
Receipts took hours to be produced (Score:4, Interesting)
After checking out, the receipts took hours to be produced so I was wondering if they were being reviewed by humans. I seem to remember that Amazon Fresh said the system was automated but it's interesting to learn there were 1,000 people watching the cameras.
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You get an email thanking you for shopping, then a couple hours later the receipt arrives via email. Your card isn't charged until you've been sent the receipt. Originally the receipt arrived within half an hour, but then they opened more stores. I generally review the bill, and only once has it been in error (they charged me for one box of pasta instead of two).
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Seems to me having to remember to check your receipt for accuracy hours later would be a big hassle. I'm guessing that was what Amazon was counting on, since most people aren't going to notice.
That's like those mini POS terminals restaurants leave on the tables that calculate the tip on the post-tax amount, and then kind of shame you for not leaving at least 20%, by making that the default.
Re: Receipts took hours to be produced (Score:2)
Oh good... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh good, so I get all of the annoyances of self checkout without an employee standing nearby for when something inevitably gets screwed up. I'll pass, thank you very much.
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I'll pass, thank you very much.
Not before you pay for 6 bottles of Dom Pérignon you picked up in the soft drink isle!
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Oh good, so I get all of the annoyances of self checkout without an employee standing nearby for when something inevitably gets screwed up. I'll pass, thank you very much.
Err no. Not an annoyance at all. This kind of shopping is common in my country and I've stopped shopping at grocery stores which don't offer it. Take an item off the shelf, scan it and put it in your basket, rinse, repeated, at checkout scan a barcode, pay and leave. Done. I typically complete the entire checkout process (there's never a queue either) in the time it takes for some normal guy to fumble around with his cash getting asked whether they want a receipt.
Even the system that verifies checks against
Re: Oh good... (Score:2)
And ... (Score:3)
Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. The cashiers were simply moved off-site, and they watched you as you shopped.
That's not creepy at all. /s
More seriously, don't know who I feel worse for the shoppers or the people whose job it is just to watch people shop -- I mean, what's the career advancement for that latter?
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Even less useful....any position with a Democrat in the office.
Re: And ... (Score:2)
Jokes on them!!! (Score:4, Informative)
In California and probably Washington as well, many "customers" continue this practice of "Just Walk out". We use to call that stealing but since it's not prosecuted, it is really a crime?
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Of course shoplifting is prosecuted in California https://apnews.com/article/fac... [apnews.com] . I've even observed this in action as I do IT for a small chain of grocery stores in California and I know for a fact our shoplifters are prosecuted.
Once again I'll tell you, your news media is making you stupid.
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Sure there's prosecutions, but why a thief care about a misdemeanor?
Why would a thief care about whether something is a felony or misdemeanour? Even if you can come up with a technical difference between them, the answer remains: They don't. Crime doesn't follow some arbitrary definition. Thieves don't run around and say "oh I only commit crimes with a maximum punishment for $1000"
Memes become reality (Score:4, Interesting)
All AI is just mechanical turk after all?
Supermarkets need ultracheap printable NFC tags which can be individually distinguished when you walk through a gate, then you just need to check if people aren't removing the labels or using Faraday shielded bags.
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All AI is just mechanical turk after all?
That really isn't what this tells us. What this tells us is that AI isn't as reliable as mechanical turk.
Hahaha! (Score:3)
"Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts."
Funny how that little tidbit was never mentioned in any of the advertorial "tech" stories about these stores, which all breathlessly gushed over the supposed amazing technology being used.
Even at Indian wages, it's probably cheaper to hire a couple dozen local cashiers and install cash registers.
Magic (Score:5, Insightful)
This leads me to an observation that magic, AI and 1,000 people in India are all indistinguishable.
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When covered with marketing hype, they'll all indistinguishable from snake oil.
Re: Magic (Score:2)
Use ALL the cashier lines (Score:3)
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I want the 80s/90s back.
GenXer here. People who want the 80s back almost never want the (inflation-adjusted) 1980s *prices* back.
Today at Wal-Mart you can buy a 55" inch 4K smart TV for the 1985 equivalent price of $87.
Compare that with back then when a 20" color TV cost around six times that much.
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Especially the parts of not having fucking cameras everywhere, no social media, and being much more of a cohesive single minded nation (US)....people actually meeting and conversing in meatspace, more sense of community.....and better fucking music.
It would be nice to see kids out playing again in neighborhoods....and less people freaking out about everything....
It was also nice when everyone confidently knew what a man and a w
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"It was also nice when everyone confidently knew what a man and a woman was."
Know a redhead? Then you know an intersex person, they just haven't told you about it. And with your attitude, I know exactly why.
And were entirely wrong a minimum of 1% of the time, because naturally-occuring intersex variations appear in that proportion in populations the world over. Roughly the same percentage as redheads, diabetics, etc. It's actually a large factor in infertility, because "X" and "Y" are not the cut-and-dr
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I'm not saying life was perfect, but it sure was less stressful, less antagonistic, and the country as a whole, was much more unified and less polarized than it is now.
Sure there have always been good and bad sides of town, not talking about that....but largely, kids could and did st
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That's because we shipped manufacturing to china not because we replaced cashiers.
Retailers work on percentage margins - Those margins reflect profits that can be used to hire cashiers.
In the good ol' days, prices were higher, as were margins as a percentage of those prices - So it meant retailers made more money.
Source: I worked at a camera store in the 1980s and saw both the wholesale and retail prices on things like Camcorders that had an inflation-adjusted retail price of $4,000.
That chain is
Apples and potatoes (Score:2)
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I hate seeing a dozen checkout lanes but only one or two actually open with massive lines for them and the self checkout. Get rid of self checkout and silly no checkout tech, staff all those cash registers. I want the 80s/90s back.
You've dismissed the checkout tech without even experiencing it, screwing yourself. There's no long self-checkout queues where I live. In fact there's never a queue even in peak hour, precisely because the tech we use is the same proposed scan as you go. The checkout process literally takes a couple of seconds per person.
I've not been in a super market where self checkout is slower than traditional checkout in the 8 years I've lived where I live. That said what you describe I do see in other more backwards
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Yes, there are literally lineups of up people willing to work those jobs.
Not sure what your reference is. When my wife used to work for WM they were offering close to 18/hour for cashiers and couldn't get enough people through the door. They were forcing floor managers to cashier because they couldn't hire employees that were willing to do it.
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First link is in Canada, and still not cashiering jobs. Warehouses and a high end restaurant. Second link "The goal of the event was to allow students to explore various job and internship opportunities in their career of interest." Nobody there is aspiring to be a career cashier at Walmart. Third link "including a part-time clerk, assistant store manager and bakery manager." Ok, batting 1 for 3 so far. Last one, still in Canada, still not cashiering at major retail. If you want to argue about the kiosk
Re: Use ALL the cashier lines (Score:2)
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That's a completely different argument, which at least has some merit. Hell, that's approaching a wage where I might be willing to put up with it as a side job for a while. Especially since I wouldn't care one iota when they fired me after telling the first shitty customer where they can hide the pineapple they feel is too expensive. Or whatever stupid thing they are berating me for. Seriously, with how shitty customers can be, it's a small wonder anyone is willing to work any retail job.
I, personally, pr
Retail tech. (Score:2)
So Amazon just learned what every other major retailer already knew: improving the front-end experience at a grocery store is wildly expensive and complicated, in comparison to having a person standing there scanning barcodes and punching in produce codes.
Kroger has been working on self-checkout solutions for decades trying to come up with "better" - from their little custom handheld barcode thing that you could grab off a rack next to the shopping carts and scan products as you put them in the cart (they b
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Scan & Go actually works really well.
You just have to remove the side cases where it doesn't - like loose products as you say. But loose products are, by far, not essential to anyone's shopping. I don't buy cornflakes by the flake or by the gram, there's no need to buy pears individually by weight either.
Since those scan & go technologies come in, however, my shopping is now utterly predictable, far more accurate, less impulse buys, and I'm in and out of the store in half the time. Mainly, it has
I did not like the experience at all (Score:2)
I encountered this in an airport once. I didn't like having no way to confirm, at the moment I walked out of the store, that what I actually bought, was what I actually paid for. I prefer to have a piece of paper that tells me I bought what I thought I bought, and that I paid what I thought I paid for it.
It's kind of like electronic voting machines, which have largely started producing a paper "receipt" of some sort, because otherwise there's no way for each voter to confirm that their votes were recorded c
Amazon betrayed us (Score:5, Funny)
Many of us on this website dream of a day when humans no longer have to perform backbreaking or mind-numbing labor. Our spirits are assaulted whenever we hear politicians hatefully brag about how they will create more jobs instead of leading us toward the Star Trekkian paradise of less soul-crushing or injurious toil.
I thought Amazon was one of the few good guys, working to help create a world of 100% unemployment. I know it's only an ideal to strive for (we'll likely never free everyone from having to work) but they seemed to be trying.
How many times have we been promised "I'll replace you with a script" or "AI is coming for your job?" Empty words. Lies. To find out they were secretly saddling innocent humans with computers' jobs, is an insult to both of our races.
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Star Trekkian paradise of less soul-crushing or injurious toil.
Here's your red shirt, Guy.
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Because that all crawls towards universal basic income (of which there has never been an unsuccessful trial, and which always results in people being better humans, spending wisely, etc. basically).
Universal basic income means that you are no longer tied into generating profit in order to then spend your wages generating profit. UBI means that someone has to pay a robot AND you.
You're just a product, and governments have no interest in treating you otherwise (tax, etc.) . Even those places with universal
Just walk out (Score:2)
"Just Walk Out, whose impressive technology was tr (Score:2)
RFID (Score:2)
I thought this was the promise of RFID; instead of self scanning through those shitty slow barcode readers, the whole cart or basket could be scanned in an instant provided products were tagged with rfid.
The only need for the monitoring then would be to make sure RFID tags are not sneakily removed before walking out (a choice of products to sell might help).
Seems to me that most people enrolled in the system are likely honest and mistakes etc. could be mitigated with spot checks. And the blatantly dishones
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Inducing the power in the RFID tags of a whole basket full of items causes them all to (very, very rapidly, before they run out of power) transmit their message on the same frequencies as everything around them.
You simply don't have time for them to hold-off and retransmit as they're only induced for a fraction of a second as the field moves past them, and so you don't really have time for retransmission, verification, etc.
With commodity scanners, you just get a load of noise talking over each other, you wo
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It's all "possible", but nobody has ever bothered to get that far because of the sheer logistics and expense.
I actually used exactly this implementation at a Uniqlo store in Tokyo. Load your shopping into a bag as you walk around the store, put your bag in a bin at checkout, and it rings up all of the items in the bin. I think I bought a few pairs of socks and some pants. It worked well.
Re: RFID (Score:2)
I found the issue.. (Score:2)
Scan & Go? (Score:2)
Instead, Amazon is moving towards Dash Carts, a scanner and screen are embedded in your shopping cart, allowing you to check out as you shop.
So, Amazon is implementing Scan & Go, but with dedicated hardware built into the cart instead of allowing me to use my phone.
Way to innovate there, Amazon.
Just Walk Out (Score:2)
Hmmm? Nah [youtube.com].
truly ahead of its time (Score:2)
'whose impressive technology was truly ahead of its time'
Wtf? CCTV has been around for several years.
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It's also not what happened (see above), but don't let that ruin a good story that pretends that AI is just a mechanical turk.
Re:Sigh (Score:4, Informative)
https://apnews.com/article/fac... [apnews.com]
Stores aren't allowed to stop anyone from leaving no matter what they did. Only law enforcement can detain people.
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You reduce the punishment for committing a crime and the amount of crimes committed goes up. What a surprise.
Re:Sigh (Score:5, Insightful)
The only thing prop 47 did was raise the threshold for shoplifting to be a felony from some number that hadn't changed in decades to $950.
That's not the problem. The problem is district attorneys who flat refuse to prosecute misdemeanor shoplift, and judges who insist on releasing accused criminals without bail, no matter how many warrants they have for failure to appear last time. In other worse, the people who should be enforcing the law are deliberately encouraging widespread shoplifting.
(Note: This is not everywhere in California. Only certain counties. You can probably guess which ones.)
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District attorneys almost everywhere will ignore misdemeanors if they can, they don't have the manpower for it. That's why most credit card theft stays under $1000 (the normal cutoff for felony crimes), three $900 charges are still three misdemeanors. I heard a cop tell a guy who knew where his stolen bike was that they weren't going to do anything about it since the DA wouldn't bother with the case, he said, "If they don't have a dog I'd recommend that you just go and steal it back tonight."
Re:Sigh (Score:5, Interesting)
Yup. There are a lot of people demanding a get tough on crime approach who think that the courts are not already overloaded and that police can spend time tracking down misdemeanor culprits. But in just about every state in the union, if someone steals your bike the police are not going to make an effort to track it down and return it. Because the get-tough-on-crime people are the same people who want to keep taxes low, which makes police budgets low.
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We can blame the Libertardians for that, in large part. They're adamantly opposed to paying taxes, apparently in their world the Magical Mystical Free Market Fairy can wave her magic wand and services and utilities just appear.
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Do you always blab on continuously about topics on which you're entirely ignorant? That's a weird hobby.
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by people who are getting their needs met.
Needs or wants? This makes a huge difference.
IMHO someone going through hunger is perfectly justified in shoplifting food and not be imprisoned for it, particularly if they sought government of charity-provided free food and found none. Not so much for someone shoplifting a mobile phone or two -- per day.
There's some of a gray area in this, but for the most part the two extremes of the line are clearly distinguishable.
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True. Those two sets of laws and enforcement are wholly inconsistent, not to mention unjust in two different directions, which is a lot worse than it being merely one way or the other.
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Yet they throw the book at the bum stealing a stick of deodorant, or a little food
In point of fact, in some counties in California, they do not. The cops, being too busy to waste their time, give the perp a ticket and tell him to promise to appear in court.
And that's it. That's the only effect. They don't show up, the judge doesn't care, and nobody ever follows up on it.
Re: Sigh (Score:2)
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You angry? (-:
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I know you're trolling, but these feel like interesting questions on their own, so I'll bite:
How about if they then sell those two phones per day for lots of food - and eat it?
That'd fit my "there's some of a gray area in this". It's the kind of situation in which a thorough investigation of the details would be needed. For example, such extremely voracious hunger would suggest the person suffers from extreme polyphagia [wikipedia.org], on a level approaching that of Tarrare [wikipedia.org]. If that was the case, then it'd be a strong mitigating factor in any punishment.
Should they be applauded for efficiency / industry ?
In the above example, pitied is more the term. And
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If you believe that petty theft isn't more common when prosecutors and judges very publicly declare they will not prosecute it, then you're the problem. (That you believe that people should be openly encouraged to be parasites whose very existence damages other people's lives was proof of that already, of course.)
Re: Sigh (Score:2)
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Billionaires don't give a shit if everything costs twice as much to account for the theft. They can afford it. In fact, very few are even aware of what shit costs; buying toilet paper and cheese is for servants, who also don't care how much of their employer's money stuff costs.
The people who take is the ass are the middle class, and the working poor. Since you seem like the sort who has never had a job for more than a few hours, I'm guessing you have personal reasons for wanting to make petty theft legal.
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You reduce the punishment for committing a crime and the amount of crimes committed goes up. What a surprise.
It may be a surprise to you to learn that's not actually always the case. Humans suck at risk estimation, especially when the risk calculation becomes ridiculous.
Yeah you may think twice about speeding if the fine goes from $30 to $60. But you won't change your opinion if it goes from $100 to $1000. The same applies to the severity of the crime. If you're thinking about murdering someone you'll do it regardless if the punishment is 10 years or a death penalty.
Only for high frequency, low consequence events
Re:Sigh (Score:5, Informative)
https://apnews.com/article/fac... [apnews.com]
Stores aren't allowed to stop anyone from leaving no matter what they did. Only law enforcement can detain people.
False.
Anyone can perform a citizens arrest. Be sure you have cause, as you may face a civil lawsuit for violating their rights -and you do not have qualified immunity to protect you.
P.S. your link has nothing to do with your statement. It is an article about prosecution, not arrest or detention by non-police individuals.
P.P.S There is a song called "Fuck The Fire Department" (...but I suspect you knew that)
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Anyone can perform a citizens arrest. Be sure you have cause, as you may face a civil lawsuit for violating their rights -and you do not have qualified immunity to protect you.
You make it sound so appealing and rewarding.
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eh... I spent some of my younger years working as a security guard to pay my way thru college.
To be fair -most businesses nowadays have a policy of non-interference. They do not want the liability risk of any non-security personnel trying to face off with a thief and getting hurt, or opening them up to a liability lawsuit for the employee actions.
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P.P.S There is a song called "Fuck The Fire Department" (...but I suspect you knew that)
Indeed there is. It's here [youtube.com]. There's a comment on that video in which the artist explains his motivations for writing the song (an early reply to the only pinned comment on the video).
1. Police brutality.
2. Fascism.
3. A meme from 2017 (I wrote the song around the end of that year) that read 'If the police NEVER did wrong, so many ppl wouldn't avoid them. Nobody ever made a song called "F*** the Fire Department".', the point of which I felt was strong enough to warrant a deeper exploration of the absurd hypothetical of "what if firefighters did behave like police though?".
4. Being a white rapper from Sweden and really feeling it's my responsibility to speak in support of Black people in America (I am firmly of the opinion that white rappers who don't care about the suffering of Black people are engaging in cultural appropriation; hip-hop is a movement that shaped me as a child and I can't undo that influence, but I'm not gonna act like I don't know where it came from), but not having the first hand experience with racism and police brutality to be able to write a straight-forward literal song about it; however having enough of a grasp of satire and speculative fiction to explore an analogy that might help illustrate to ignorant white people how absurd it is to defend oppression just because it wears a uniform they've been told means something else.
5. Sometimes satire or comedy, even comedy rooted in pain, is the most effective way of showing people how to think outside the box they've been raised inside. Maybe this won't change any minds, but the least I can do is say something. If nothing else, perhaps it'll be a bit of entertainment for the revolution.
tl;dr: The song "Fuck the Fire Department" is about the police.
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https://apnews.com/article/fac... [apnews.com]
Stores aren't allowed to stop anyone from leaving no matter what they did. Only law enforcement can detain people.
I guess that's in California. In every other state, the store is allowed to use reasonable force to physically detain you.
This includes just about anything except shooting you with a gun. Well, and I doubt they can taser you. But they can sure as shit tackle you, beat you into submission if necessary for resisting, and put zip-tie restraints on you and lock you into a detainment room and interrogate you (no Miranda). They can hold you for a period of time (not sure, but hours) while they wait for the police
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Maybe. A recent story [rmusentrymedia.com] says otherwise [reddit.com].
If it turns out that you were innocent of the shoplifting, or that the force was excessive, then you can sue them for false arrest, false imprisonment, assault and battery, and a bunch of other things.
Except of course if you're dead [nbcnews.com]. In which case one has to hope the DA doesn't lack a spine.
Re: Sigh (Score:2)
Unless you're in a stand your ground state, you can't escalate a fruit attack into a pipe attack. This has nothing to do with tackling, arresting, or beating a thief.
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BS.
The problem lies with the retailer, not the police.
Here's how to solve it:
1) Only restaurants on the first level of ALL buildings. Nothing else is permitted on the ground floor unless arranged like a restaurant (Eg a dental clinic, hair dresser)
2) Grocery (other than bakeries/butcher shops that keep everything behind the counter), Banks, Jewlery stores, pawn/consignment stores, money exchange, and large retailers like Best Buy, Walmart, must be on the second floor.
3) Malls/shopping areas that are next to
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Re: Amazon Unemployment Strikes India (Score:2)
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I'm sure you think this is true . . . will you at least praise the honesty of the vast majority of California shoppers, who continue to pay Ralph's, Vons, and even Gelson's prices out of the goodness of our hearts?
Is this like how you would praise the 99% of people who walk by your house without stealing something ... because 99 >> 1, so we can praise the 99 and not harp on the 1?
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If theft was effectively legal (as you and he seem to think) then a having only 1% of the population help themselves would actually be pretty good. But my cursory search suggests that Ralphs (Kroger), Vons (Albertsons) and Gelsons have had strong earnings--remarkably so if nobody in California needs to buy what they're selling.
If you're hung up on not charging shoplifting as a felony, ask whether anything in a grocery store is worth 366 days of a man's life. If your answer is YES, then do some undercover w
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The people in India were supposed to be temporary, sanity-checking the camera system. As almost always bleeding-edge tech wasn't quite ready. They'll make another run at this in a couple years when it is.
Re: Show of hands. (Score:2)