Multinational ISP Offers $206M In Secured Notes Backed By IPv4 Addresses (circleid.com) 43
CircleID reports that Multinational internet service provider Cogent recently announced that it was offering $206 million in secured notes (a corporate bond backed by assets). "The unusual part is what it's using as security: some of its IPv4 addresses and the leases on those IPv4 addresses."
All internet service providers (ISPs) give IP addresses to their users, but Cogent was among the first to lease those addresses independently of internet access. (Internet access customers normally require a unique address as part of their service.) Sources are hard to find, but prevailing wisdom is that they have over 10M addresses leased for about $0.30 per month, or $36M per year in revenue.
The notes are expected to be repaid in five years.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader penciling_in for sharing the article.
The notes are expected to be repaid in five years.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader penciling_in for sharing the article.
Links to article (Score:5, Informative)
Here [circleid.com] is the article. The link in the summary seems broken.
The future cost of IPv4 addresses seems like an interesting economic study. If the price goes up a lot then that will encourage some companies to sell off part of their ranges and move towards more NAT and/or IPv6. Also if IPv4 addresses get costly then cloud providers will start changing more [theregister.com] for IPv4 access to encourage IPv6 instead. On the other hand, people might pay more so they don't have to migrate a working setup.
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If I understand correctly, selling the IP addresses and their market value isn't the matter here. They lease those IP addresses so it's like owning a building and giving your leases, the money you collect from your tenants as collateral.
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True, I wasn't really very specific with "cost of IPv4 addresses" as to whether I meant leasing or owning. I think those two costs will be somewhat linked, just like real estate prices and rents.
Personally I would tend towards leasing rather than owning. They don't seem like a long-term investment as there is a lot of scope for people to reduce their IPv4 usage if prices get high (unlike property renters, who have to live somewhere).
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Re: Links to article (Score:2)
I don't know why anyone would want to use ipv4 on the backend. Cloud providers should default to ipv6 only and push us through this final hurdle.
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Cloud providers should default to ipv6 only and push us through this final hurdle.
Cloud providers are competing with each other. "No IPv4 for you!" sounds like a way to lose market share.
Re: Links to article (Score:2)
Yeah. And some ISPs don't support IPv6 at all, or not properly. Currently I have 3 WANs and Comcast is the only one with a proper IPv6 implementation.
All 3 are giving me a public IPv4 address, though. No CG-NAT.
Re: Links to article (Score:2)
That's why I specifically call out the backend. On the front end you still need it.
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We need to anounce the coming of the salt shaker to get those slugs moving.
Re: Links to article (Score:4, Informative)
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Zayo recvd prefixes in PoP 1: 190407
HE rcvd prefixes in PoP 2: 194839
ZenLayer recvd prefixes in PoP 2: 190927
HE recvd prefixes in PoP 3: 194828
Spectrum recvd prefixes in PoP 3: 190231
Cogent is on the low side, but half? Na.
And that's not "proper"" support. All peers are missing some prefixes (Though cogent is missing a slightly concerning amount)
If you're single-homed.... well then, don't be single-homed via Cogent. You're stupid for being single-homed, being o
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At my ISP they use two networks, one of which who also serves end customers, the other doesn't . I had a reachable IPv4 address for a long time, then switched to a faster connection, after which they put me on the other network, with CGNAT.
Common business model these days. We even do it on some of our networks.
When I asked about a reachable address, they tried to sell me a fixed IP which costs a lot more, and when I said I just wanted routable, the guy was complaining about IPv4 addresses running out.
Yup, that's how we handle it too- monthly fee in return for static.
But then, their network partner doesn't even offer IPv6...
That part is unusual. Any network utilizing CGNAT for its customers should offer routable IPv6. Shame on them.
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Yeah. And some ISPs don't support IPv6 at all, or not properly. Currently I have 3 WANs and Comcast is the only one with a proper IPv6 implementation.
Hi. Chief Engineer of a regional ISP with about 20k residential fiber customers, here.
Help me understand what "proper IPv6 implementation" means.
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One where I can just set my pfSense router to use DHCP6 on the WAN, and get IPv6 assignments for my clients on the LAN side.
Comcast passes this test. Verizon has some IPv6, but fails it. Sail Internet is IPv4 only.
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Your Verizon and Sail- either of them PPP? That adds an additional complication. DHCP6 is really only an option over IPoE connections.
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There is no such thing, and that's kind of the problem.
An IPoE session with RAs and DHCP6 and a server dishing out PD allocations is certainly probably the "gold standard" of what you want if you want "easy" IPv6, but you don't get to call that "proper".
There are many ways an ISP can provide IPv6 connectivity that may require configuration on your side to work correctly.
Choice of routing software
Re: Links to article (Score:2)
Please educate me on how I could get IPv6 working with Verizon. This is their 5G gateway, not fiber. The gateway is in what they call "IP passthrough" mode, ie bridge mode.
All the IPs on all 3 WANs appear to be public as far as I can tell. I setup 3 VPN endpoints and it all works, using.IPv4 though.
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Please educate me on how I could get IPv6 working with Verizon. This is their 5G gateway, not fiber.
Wouldn't know- don't have one.
The gateway is in what they call "IP passthrough" mode, ie bridge mode.
Not the same thing. 5G networks don't use ethernet framing- there's nothing to bridge.
Non-ethernet framing is common in telecommunications.
There are a few different PDUs you could use to transport IPv6 over 5G. It's hard to say which are supported by Verizon, and which are supported by the shitbox radio they gave you. GTP tunnels are obnoxious (but not impossible) for services you'd expect on good ethernet service (RA + DHCP6)
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It's actually quite a decent radio. It manages 100 Mbps down, and that is throttled. I'm doing a trial of their lower-tier service. Until now, all the cell operators could manage was NO CARRIER or 0.001 Mbps . I wish I was kidding, but that's what I have been actually getting for 14 years. Same rate as I was getting in the early 1980s on my Minitel. Wifi calling and VoIP were the only way to make calls here. When ISP goes down for "scheduled maintenance" that they never tell anyone about, I have to go outsi
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I imagine that'll change with time- but it was a similar situation with the LTE radios for a long time too.
Re: Links to article (Score:2)
The Verizon ARC-XCI55AX gateway really seems like quite a decent device. I have no prior experience with the LTE-only models. The only decent data signal I can get seems to be from new towers Verizon installed recently. And only the 5G UWB bands work, apparently. There is still no 4G or LTE signal, or slower, despite what coverage maps state.
Re: Links to article (Score:2)
No, they aren't PPP. I don't think i have used that since 1998 when I first got DSL from Pacbell. The last time would have been when I was still on dialup.
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DSL operated over ATM, so that was a common encapsulation.
These days, PPPoE is common on national fiber networks.
It's a bit more scalable than
Re: Links to article (Score:4, Interesting)
Cloud providers already often use private address spaces on the backend, so it doesn't really matter- except, that unfortunately IPv6 is not just IPv4+12 more bytes.
The considerations for operating an IPv6 stack are considerable.
I've been watching (and helping) people deal with them in our datacenters for a decade.
Don't even get me started on the residential side. That's an unmitigated fucking disaster.
Source? The datacenter and residential fiber networks I'm in charge of.
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It's like oil - the price of oil rises, then the whole supply chain starts coming onlin
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IPv6 has increased a lot in the last 10 years, from 3.6% [google.com] in May 2014 to 45% now. Nobody has switched, as such, but most of the expansion in IP addresses (mobile phones, etc.) is happening in IPv6, as you mention. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next ten years.
I want the note backed by 127.0.0.1 (Score:5, Funny)
I'd be able to collect "lease payments' from everybody who uses that IP address! It wouldn't have to be much, a penny or so would do.
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That's a great site for natural and hairy women. Mostly videos and photos I've already downloaded, though.
IPv4: The other Bitcoin (Score:1)
I'm confused now.
IPv4 allows an ISP to offer a $206 million bond
But you can't do that with IPv6: It produces so much "currency" that it's practically worthless.
Except that it's not worthless, because it will make my web-connected toothbrush happy...!
Re: IPv4: The other Bitcoin (Score:2)
Just wait until IPv6coin. They'll figure out a way to halve the address space soon enough, to drive up the price.
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I'm confused now.
There's a shortage of available IPv4 address and that scarcity creates "value".
There's no shortage of IPv6 addresses, so no (or less) "value".
Backed by leasted property? (Score:3)
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Yes, I thought there was a requirement for owners to actually use IPV4 addresses, or they would be reclaimed by IANA. How is it possible to lease them?
Re:Backed by leasted property? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, I thought there was a requirement for owners to actually use IPV4 addresses
The IP Numbering system is a public resource technically.. Internet sites require Unique addressing in order to communicate with each other and Create the whole internet ecosystem as we know it: For the network to work... We all have to agree about who gets to use which Network Address ranges, So all the network operators have Decided over their own free will that IANA gets to Create a database delegating IP Addresses to whoever they want based on their Policies, And we all agree to go with whatever IANA says In order to create a well-coordinated system.
In this sense; the Requirement to Have and Keep IP Addresses are Whatever the hell IANA says they are. IANA Themself created a Delegation system which Allocates major blocks out to separate Organizations called Internet Registries, And each Region of the world has an Internet Registry that Assigns and Removes Assignments of IP Addresses, AND Sets all the rules.
You don't have an IP Address without an allocation from either IANA directly or from one of these registries. And the Database is the property of that registry, So you have no "property ownership" in that sense -- You might have a contractual right to maintain some entries in their Database, based on an Adherence to the registries' policies and agreements you signed with the registry. That generally requires maintaining an Ongoing service with the registry and Paying annual fees to keep your registration, But also, the registry can change the rules. You won't have a Permanent assignment agreement guaranteeing you Ownership of range of IP Addresses until the end of time... that Is up to whatever the Community Rules, Active Contracts, and Number Policies are that are in place at the time.
Currently You have to provide Justified need in order to be assigned IPv4 addresses. This is a technical criteria based on network design and how many Customers and Hosts you have which require IP Addresses.
It has long been the Number Registry's position that IP Addresses are not property - Historically, they are administered by IANA policy and never regarded as property. For starters the earliest IANA allocations are Simply assigned without so much as charging a fee. You are assigned IP Addresses you need (if they are available to assign) for your network based on assignment or allocation criteria - Not "sold" IP Addresses. In fact, your registration cost does not historically change based on the number of IP Addresses -- in modern times the NA registry DOES muddy the waters slightly by Charging a larger amount of money for larger assignments, And a higher membership fee for ISPs based on the gross number of active addresses allocated.
If you Don't have the justified need in accordance with the RFC2050, then a Transfer or Assignment of IP Addresses to your organization is supposed to be rejected by the registry.
Numbers for use with the IPv4 Protocol are co-ordinated by IANA and regional registries. These entities administer the assignment of resources according to Number Resource Policies which are adopted through community process, And can be changed through the community process.
Current policy is Not to revoke IP Addresses solely for lack of use; That means if you have justified need in the past and No longer have justified need -- You are Expected to renumber, but the registry does Not force you to renumber, Although ARIN has a contractual Right to audit your address assignments If you maintain registrations with them, and they can exercise that right at any time.
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Mortgage-backed securities (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does this remind me of mortgage-backed securities?
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Meh, don't worry about it. This is different.
"32 bites"?? (Score:2)
"Those 32 bites mean there are only 4.3 billion possible IPv4 addresses"
How many if you have an overbite?
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"Those 32 bites mean there are only 4.3 billion possible IPv4 addresses" How many if you have an overbite?
A lot more, if you're prepared to upgrade from DARPANET to DERP-A-NET.
What does this mean exactly? (Score:2)
This note is backed by outdated hardware that hasn't been upgraded yet?? Could this actually be what's keeping companies tight fisted around IpV4 and not upgrading to IpV6?
If everybody was on IpV6 there would be no value to IpV4! What am I missing here?