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Transportation

Is Ford Trying To Patent a Way For Its Cars To Report Speeding To the Police? (motorauthority.com) 216

Is Ford trying to patent a way for its cars to report speeding drivers to the police? An article in Motor Authority notes that this patent application from Ford was filed January 12th of 2023 — and just published 11 days ago by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office: In the application, Ford discusses using cars to monitor each other's speeds. If one car detects that a nearby vehicle is being driven above the posted limit, it could use onboard cameras to photograph that vehicle. A report containing both speed data and images of the targeted vehicle could then be sent directly to a police car or roadside monitoring units via an Internet connection, according to Ford. Using vehicles for speed surveillance would make cops' jobs easier, as they wouldn't have to quickly identify speeding violations and take off in pursuit, Ford notes in the application. It also means some of that work could be delegated to self-driving cars, which could be equipped to detect speeding violations, the automaker adds...

Ford has also tried to patent a "night drive mode" that would limit vehicle speeds at night for everyone — including first responders.

Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.
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Is Ford Trying To Patent a Way For Its Cars To Report Speeding To the Police?

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  • might not end well (Score:4, Interesting)

    by zeiche ( 81782 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @02:47AM (#64663112)

    i can imagine damage given to vehicles that are equipped with this “feature.”

    • by test321 ( 8891681 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @03:10AM (#64663140)

      Once more, the problem only lies in the clickbait slashdot title. This is not to equip the general population, only police patrol. It's in the patent draft.
      See how they intertwin the generic "detection", which applies to any car, and the cases where there is a transmission, where it only applies to law enforcement vehicles.

      See for example Claim 8: in any car, the system can detect and display a notificaton ; Claims 9,11,12: if it is a police car, then it can trigger a radar, transmit information to a server, notify of a pursuit. There are 20 claims in total, you're free to analyse them.

      8. A method comprising: determining, by a processor in a first vehicle, based on evaluating a speed measurement obtained from a first vehicle speed detection system of the first vehicle, [...] and displaying, by the processor, on a display screen of an infotainment system of the first vehicle, a notification that includes at least one of the speed measurement associated with the second vehicle

      9. The method of claim 8, wherein the first vehicle is a first law-enforcement vehicle [...]: activating, by the processor, a radar device [...]

      11. The method of claim 8, wherein the first vehicle is a first law-enforcement vehicle [...]: transmitting, by the processor, at least a portion of the record to at least one of a server computer that is configured to store information associated with traffic violations [...]

      12. The method of claim 8, wherein the first vehicle is a first law-enforcement vehicle [...]: transmitting [...] an alert that the first law-enforcement vehicle is executing a pursuit operation.

      https://trea.com/information/s... [trea.com]

      • If this is only for law enforcement (who is basically exempt from speeding limits, especially when in pursuit), then what is the entire point of this technology? Sounds like yet another form of audit and documentation to “justify” any harm or death related to high speed pursuits. Otherwise, why are cops tattling on cops again? A broke taxpayer wants to know which asshole is getting rich.

        • Re:Justify it. (Score:5, Insightful)

          by chuckugly ( 2030942 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @04:47AM (#64663260)

          It detects the speed of OTHER vehicles. Detecting the speed of the current vehicle is called a SPEEDOMETER and it's been around a few years.

        • This is very unfortunate. I really hope they can expand this to regular vehicles. Speeding is a major problem and a**hole drivers exist everywhere. The lack of enforcement makes idiot people more likely to speed and drive dangerously because they are betting they won't get caught.

          I wish the Law and car manufacturers would go a few steps further:

          - Onboard sensors that detect when someone is tailgating you above a certain speed limit. This would prevent false positives when you're in stand still tra
      • Claim 8 does not mention "law-enforcement vehicle", and so it would apply to any vehicles. That interpretation would be reinforced by the fact that the dependent claims explicitly say "wherein the first vehicle is a first law-enforcement vehicle", so the independent claim must not have that limitation.

        Use in police cars is almost certainly Ford's plan (the second sentence of the abstract says "An example method executed by a processor in a first vehicle (a law-enforcement vehicle, for example)...", but t
    • So on the off chance that a vehicle may catch you committing a crime on camera, you instead postulate a world where people will commit crimes pre-emptively... on a vehicle they know is fitted with cameras?

      I'm all in favour of this. We need to identify these insanely stupid people out there and stop them from breeding.

  • by Tx ( 96709 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @02:59AM (#64663128) Journal

    If you really want to enforce a speed limit, pass a law requiring mandatory speed limiters [autotrader.co.uk] in all new cars, rather than having one brand of car acting as some sort of ad-hoc police deputy.

    • According to the summary, Ford has tried that kind of patent. I know the second paragraph is hard to read, but...
      • According to the summary, Ford has tried that kind of patent.

        As the actual manufacturer of automobiles, care to explain why they would need a patent to simply create a corporate policy that states new cars will be designed to not exceed 80MPH? What exactly are they patenting? The right to NOT make a car unjustifiably fast that exceeds EVERY legal speed limit posted across an ENTIRE country?

        Why exactly would Ford need permission or patent protection to do that again?

    • Given that the issue is far more likely to be with obstruction rather than speeding, why are we so focused on monetizing speedi .... oh.... Wait. I get it.

      It's about revenue generation, first and foremost. Difficult to do with douchebags obstructing the freeflow of traffic in multiple, insane, ways. Easy with speed metrics. Got it.

    • by teg ( 97890 )

      If you really want to enforce a speed limit, pass a law requiring mandatory speed limiters [autotrader.co.uk] in all new cars, rather than having one brand of car acting as some sort of ad-hoc police deputy.

      One problem with those - at least as I see it now - is that I don't trust them to have the right speed. My current experience across multiple cars is that the speed limit displayed in the car is frequently wrong - in both directions.

    • If you really want to enforce a speed limit, pass a law requiring mandatory speed limiters [autotrader.co.uk] in all new cars, rather than having one brand of car acting as some sort of ad-hoc police deputy.

      Except that the law doesn't do anything of the sort. No where is there a law with mandatory speed limiters, and not in the EU either. You are not limited in any way and free to ignore the car's feature that is mandated by the EU law. In the case of my car it involves flashing the little speed indicator sign on the instrument cluster in a completely ignorable and unobtrusive way.

      Which is a good thing by the way, where I live we have service streets to houses, meaning 30km/h parallel streets next to main road

    • by MpVpRb ( 1423381 )

      If you really want to enforce speed limits, change them to reflect the actual speed that safe drivers drive
      All speed limits are unrealistically low and most safe drivers routinely exceed them
      This erodes respect for the law in general
      The safe speed on a road varies a lot, based on lighting, weather, driver competence, traffic and vehicle performance
      Traffic enforcement should not be based on a single number, but instead on performance under the conditions that exist at the time

  • who would use it? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @03:04AM (#64663134) Journal
    Think of all the people who got Ring doorbell cameras, and are happy to send the videos to the police. Those same people will be more than happy to report when someone goes past them speeding. It doesn't even have to be automatic: if there is a button that people have to push to send the report, they will happily push it.
    • Re:who would use it? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Visarga ( 1071662 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @03:23AM (#64663160)
      I would like the same capability on a phone app to report drivers who don't cede right of way to pedestrians on crossings. And to report cars parked on sidewalks, a huge problem in my country. Can't walk on sidewalks, can't cross because drivers are too greedy and aggressive.
      • And to report cars parked on sidewalks, a huge problem in my country.

        I know a small town that started issuing tickets based on pictures, this escalated to people taking pictures of their neighbours they don't like while they were legally crossing the sidewalk to get into their garages. Mind you, in suburbs where you usually don't see a pedestrian all day long for as far as you can see. Just a small parking fine, that would both not deter anyone who's doing it regularly (heck, I parked for more money) and wo

    • I agree with your diagnosis that people will be more than happy top transmit data. However, none of this scenario is in this patent. Infractions can only be recorded through radar measurement, and the patent is clear that the purpose of the image detection is, in a police car, to trigger a radar which in turn, in a police car, can transmit the infraction.

      Regarding doorbell cameras, when you say "happy to send the videos", it is an "Appeal to Motive" (fallacy). People don't have a choice, at least in my plac

    • Think of all the people who got Ring doorbell cameras, and are happy to send the videos to the police. Those same people will be more than happy to report when someone goes past them speeding. It doesn't even have to be automatic: if there is a button that people have to push to send the report, they will happily push it.

      Funny thing about hypocritical button smashers; they’re guilty of being fucking impatient too. Hope they enjoy the equally shitty rewards in return. Maybe at some point they’ll learn that being a cunt, doesn’t pay.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      People already do with dashcams. They have to manually submit, but they do it.

      For speeding it's usually not enough, because the police are very keen to argue that the GPS speed sensor in the dashcam is not accurate. If it was, it would undermine their radar/laser speed trap guns that are actually inferior to GPS.

      For dangerous driving, using a mobile phone while driving, even littering, the police do use submitted dashcam footage to prosecute. It's just unfortunate that often the dashcam isn't good enough to

    • by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Think of all the people who got Ring doorbell cameras, and are happy to send the videos to the police. Those same people will be more than happy to report when someone goes past them speeding. It doesn't even have to be automatic: if there is a button that people have to push to send the report, they will happily push it.

      You've already got this with Dash Cam Warriors, predominantly cyclists. Many UK police agencies now have section on their website to upload a video.

      I've driven for years with a dash cam but that's mainly there for my own amusement and the off chance I might need to settle an insurance dispute (in Australia loads of people will lie to insurers, my version of events is correct because I have the footage). Perish the thought of dobbing in other motorists, even though most will be absolute morons, no-one lik

    • by leonbev ( 111395 )

      Oh, come on... do we really need a make another tool for the Karens of the world to complain about every minor infraction to government services? They're annoying enough as is. They're already making HOA's miserable to live in, and now you want to expand their perceived moral "authority" to their local highways as well?

  • Firstly, only selected bodies have the authority to measure speed and issue tickets. Private companies don't. This is for a number of reasons but most importantly it's about the accuracy of a measurement and making sure that the speed data is not tampered with. In order to accurately measure the speed of a vehicle one's got to consider own speed, position of the measured object, angles, curvature of the road, etc. Then we have the problem of atestation of your own speedometer and of the measuring device whi

  • Once they become required by law, Ford should lose patent protection.

  • Let's hypothesise (Score:5, Interesting)

    by VendettaMF ( 629699 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @04:35AM (#64663240) Homepage

    Let's hypothesise.

    The patent is granted, and the legal issues sorted so that privately owned vehicles are allowed work as mobile speed cameras, with their evidence admissable in court.

    6 months later Ford starts selling them.

    3 Days later the full liust of models that can have this feature is public knowledge across the internet.

    That night, the fires begin.

    I'm not advocating this. I'm just saying that in the modern world this would be inevitable.

    • That night, the fires begin

      This is great. I fully support living in a world that has weeded out morons who would commit crimes on vehicles fitted with cameras all to maybe not potentially get caught committing a crime in the future.

      Can you imagine such a world? Safer for all from emotional morons, and with a general IQ increase for the remaining population to boost.

    • You're being way way way over dramatic. On the other hand realistically it will reduce their sales. Now they've got the F-150 so they can get away with damn near anything with that model vehicle. But for the entire rest of their line I would expect substantial drops in sales across the board unless this was implemented on every single brand.
  • That would fail the obviousness test for patents as it is obvious to anyone in the field, and heck, a good portion of us that aren't.
    The only reason why everyone other than ford hasn't tried to patent it, other than the usual reasons, is that we aren't total dicks that want to turn the entire automotive using populace of the world into out enemy.
  • People are so schizophrenic about speeding enforcement.

    You do know that speeding laws are passed by people you voted for, right? But when anybody tries to actually enforce the laws, you get all squirrelly.

    Don't want speed limits enforced? Then vote for people who will raise or remove speed limits.

  • We already have cop cars with onboard, unattended radar that takes a picture. Sorry Ford, it's obvious.
  • I'm in favor of democracy. I'd like to see speed limits be explicitly posted, including unambiguous rules for conditions like rain, fog and snow, and then enforced 100%.

    Then let the voters sort out whether any politician who supports speed limits that are too low makes it past the next election. Selective enforcement of laws is a huge problem. Individual police officers should not have the freedom to pick and choose which laws to enforce and which to ignore, or pick a choose who has to follow the laws and w

  • Car at stop, passing car, 30 in a 30.
    Car at 20mph, passing car, 30 in a 30, with real diff 10.
    Car at 20mph, brakes suddenly, passing car 50 in a 30.
    Plus lots of variations for averages, wrong speed limits, patchy location...
    • Of course I messed up the maths in an edit, the relative difference when adjusted for +10 would be 40mph.
    • by ledow ( 319597 )

      You mean you would have to factor in the current vehicle's wheel (or maybe even GPS) speed into the formula?

      Oh no. What a chore!

      Measuring the relative velocity of two vehicles is pretty easy, measuring JUST ONE of those vehicles absolute velocity (at least, relative to the Earth) is trivial and literally staring you in the face when you're driving.

      Adding one onto the other requires nothing more than accounting for the addition of the appropriate error margins.

  • forced to buy an data plan and / or maps gps update plan?

    with the car?

  • Patents (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ledow ( 319597 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @07:44AM (#64663448) Homepage

    No, Ford - like any large company - thinks about what everyone might do in the future, tries to patent it in advance (while it's still "novel") and then if ANYONE makes a car that does that, they have to pay Ford.

    See "heated front windscreen".

    Most of those patents go unused, the income from those patents is from their competitors and other smaller companies, and they never have to actually implement it in any mainstream model, but if they do decide to do so... it costs them nothing because they own the idea.

    Welcome to how patents work, and always have.

    There are patents for the most ridiculous things, and the second a new tech comes out (e.g. "AI"), then thousands of patents are filed to do things "using AI" in order to then try to extract money from the entire world ever trying to do that particular thing.

    In a hardware world like car manufacture, there is a patent on every single component, and it's a good idea to own enough of them that your competitors would rather negotiate / exchange patent licensing than you have to pay everyone for every part.

    I bet there are a dozen car companies each owning some tiny part of any system on a car, e.g. if you took "lane deviation avoidance", I bet there's a patent in that from every major car company, plus dozens of tech companies, and that all of them were filed before a major car company actually had a working mass production with that technology in.

  • If we want to stop speeders, we don't need high tech surveillance or even paid patrol officers.

    All we need is a big rock. [youtube.com]

  • by CEC-P ( 10248912 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @08:49AM (#64663614)
    Well, sort of. They have bounties on pics or vids of other people breaking laws. As in they give the filmer like 10% of the ticket.
  • It's painfully obvious that in the very near future we are all going to lose the ability to drive our cars one way or another. There is no way in hell given the incredibly high expense of having individuals putzing around in 2,000 ton plus metal bullets that were going to be able to avoid that. If all else fails the insurance companies will force it on us because they will jack up rates on anyone's car that doesn't monitor every single thing they do.

    At that point what's the fucking point of having your
  • Make cars that can go over 100 MPH and then report you when you use the vehicle as designed.
  • I'd like to see cars restricted to under 100 mph and report those, there is never a reason for a civilian to go those speeds. Report no brake pads and bald tires too.

  • Detect their thoughts, if they think the wrong thing they will be punished
  • Finland is the famous model.

    I'll be honest, I speed all the time - nothing ridiculous, but the sort of "nobody cares if you're within 10%" that's been usual in Minnesota my whole life.

    But if speeding tickets were $5000 or whatever, fuck that I'll take more time and lock the cruise control so I don't speed.

    https://www.wionews.com/world/... [wionews.com]

  • No-one seems to have questioned how the system can know the speed limit in force.

    Yes, there is mapping data, but, where I live, my Tesla shows the speed limit incorrectly on many roads that I drive along. It's not just on old, rural roads, but on new (or perhaps newly-widened) roads.

    I can imagine an automated system will suffer from lots of false positives and false negatives from this incorrect data.

  • Patents are at least an impediment to this spreading beyond Ford. The more restrictions the better. Let them patent it, let them refuse to license the patent and then we can just ban Ford cars, maybe starting with private roads.
  • by BringsApples ( 3418089 ) on Monday July 29, 2024 @10:33AM (#64663854)

    Once any sort of technology is developed, it's original use is always expanded on by the good guys AND the bad guys. At some point, the humans will learn that inventing technology to solve problems, only solves 3 problems and creates 5 more.

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