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Communications China

China Launches Satellites For Major Network To Rival Starlink (sciencealert.com) 63

An anonymous reader quotes a report originally published by Business Insider: A Chinese state-backed company has launched its first 18 satellites in its bid to build a vast orbital network aimed at rivaling Starlink, according to local media. The launch on Monday by Shanghai Spacecom Satellite Technology involved 18 satellites and one rocket, per The China Securities Journal, which is run by state news agency Xinhua. According to the outlet, the rocket lifted off from the Taiyuan satellite and missile launch center in Shanxi province.

These satellites mark the first step in the company's effort to create a 15,000-strong network of Low Earth Orbit satellites, which the firm has dubbed the "Thousand Sails Constellation." The company said it plans to reach that final tally by 2030, per The China Securities Journal. Domestic media has widely called the project the Chinese version of Starlink, which runs about 6,000 satellites. Elon Musk has said that he plans to eventually host a network of 42,000 satellites.

The Thousand Sails Constellation, also known as the G60 project, is one of three planned major satellite networks in the country. Each is expected to field 10,000 or more satellites. Most are anticipated to orbit between 200 and 1,200 miles above the Earth's surface, which is also where Starlink satellites are generally found. The three constellations, along with dozens of ambitious space projects from other Chinese firms, have been fueled by a recent push from the central government to loop the private sector into its science and technology goals.

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China Launches Satellites For Major Network To Rival Starlink

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  • LOL (Score:4, Insightful)

    by RitchCraft ( 6454710 ) on Wednesday August 07, 2024 @10:51PM (#64689446)

    Launch all the StarLink rivals you like. What countries outside of the axis of evil would even consider using them?

    • Axis of Evil - Why? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by oumuamua ( 6173784 )
      One day I noticed China was all of a sudden included in this infamous 'axis of evil' but never got a good answer as to why. However I think I found the answer, it is purely geo-political, the US does not want a multi-polar world:

      Ostensibly, these actions are to be taken in defense of the Indo-Pacific region itself in response to China’s so-called “coercion and aggression.”20 Washington is, however, hard pressed to find instances of such aggression. It is true that China, like any great pow

      • by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @12:19AM (#64689516)

        but never got a good answer as to why

        You must have slept through the past 10 years, with the PRC becoming the major destabilizing factor in the South West Pacific, a military threat to democratic Taiwan and the major supplier of neonazi ruZZia with weapon manufacturing equipment and supplies, which the latter uses to wage its war of aggression against Ukraine.

        Then there's the dismal results of China's presence in Africa on the local environment and welfare, China's gradual and unstoppable slide back to totalitarianism at home, the never-ending terror against minorities, etc. etc.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by OYAHHH ( 322809 )

        Uyghurs. Take a moment to educate yourself.

        • by Anonymous Coward
          If they weren't against China they'd be considered muslim extremists/terrorists by the US...

          Oh not all of them are extremists? Well the non-extremists aren't in "re-education camps", they're living free in public. Take a moment to educate yourself.

          FWIW Islam has changed/destroyed Uyghur culture too. Few Uyghur traditional women dresses have face veils.

          Extremist Islam would kill their music and dance. Look at Afghanistan and the ISIS.
          • "living free" You know, with special male CCP minders in the homes of the females whose husbands/fathers/sons have been sent to ze camps who totes are in no possible way demanding sexual favors.

        • by hey! ( 33014 )

          Wait --- so doing bad things to indigenous people gets you put on the naughty list?

          Historical snark aside, China is a country we need to stand up to because of its leadership is a threat to international peace and order, not because they're "bad guys".

          China didn't even make it onto Bush's original "Axis of Evil", even though they'd be well into oppressing Uyghurs at that point. Nor is Saudi Arabia usually get mentioned in Axis of Evil lists, even though nobody doubts they're really, really bad guys. So th

      • by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @03:59AM (#64689732) Homepage
        Having lived in China let me add control freaks to the list. Have you been to China? Outside of a hotel VPN the Internet sucks big time. Two years there and that was my limit. I'm fine visiting for short times but there is no way I would live there again, the little things the government does to exert control over how you live will do you brain in.
        You are not allowed to read what you like, the Internet is censored to point of being useless.
        You are not allowed to travel where you like. Ticket sales are tided to you social rating.
        You are not allowed to own a home. All land belongs to government, you pay for 20 year lease when you 'buy' a home.
        You are not allowed to own a car or motorcycle, they have forced scraping at a young age.

        The list goes on and on, just try dealing with a bank, getting married or having kids. Maybe my list is not an "axis of evil" in of itself but it gives you an idea of the Chinese government's idea of 'freedom'.
      • The Dictator of China re-wrote their "Constitution" so he/Xi could stay in power for life. That makes China a part of the axis of Evil.
    • Re:LOL (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nicubunu ( 242346 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @12:39AM (#64689542) Homepage

      China, India, Russia, Afrian and South American states, you can easily get to half of the world population

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by backslashdot ( 95548 )

        India won't, they're banning a lot of Chinese stuff as they have territorial disputes over border areas.

      • China, India, Russia, Afrian and South American states, you can easily get to half of the world population

        Yup.

        Or as the eeeeevil Mr. Orban [miniszterelnok.hu] put it:

        I think that this is an inevitable process, because Asia has the demographic advantage, it has the technological advantage in ever more areas, it has the capital advantage, and it is bringing its military power up to equilibrium with that of the West. Asia will have – or perhaps already has – the most money, the largest financial funds, the largest companies in the world, the best universities, the best research institutes, and the largest stock exchanges. It will have – or already has – the most advanced space research and the most advanced medical science.

    • Re: LOL (Score:4, Interesting)

      by SuperDre ( 982372 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @03:02AM (#64689680) Homepage
      If it's cheaper and faster as Starlink, I would have no problem using it, especially because US "intelligence" services have direct access to Starlink.
      • by dwywit ( 1109409 )

        Did you buy that 6-digit user account? I can't imagine anyone who's been round long enough would believe what you've just said.

        1. You made the claim, prove it.
        2. What fool believes the cn govt *won't* have access?

        Or were you just being funny?

      • by ukoda ( 537183 )
        You wouldn't last the first month when you realise that they are not offering an Internet connection. Starlink gives you access to the Internet. The Chinese service will give you access to an internet they have in China that is not connected the real Internet. I personally call it Chinanet. It has a gateway to the real Internet but that is filtered thru the GFW cutting out most of the websites you are probably using now.

        I lived with Chinanet for 2 years and I wouldn't use their service even if it was
        • >I am at loss to as to why you think China spying on you is any different to the USA spying on you?

          While the CCP's firewall and censorship makes whatever they're offering less than useless to me, the reason I would want to have China watching my Internet traffic over the US is that it is far, far less likely to actually affect my life.

          You don't have to be trying to hide anything criminal - cops occasionally (or frequently, or constantly, depending on where you live) abuse their authority and access to st

          • by ukoda ( 537183 )
            Useless is, by definition, useless. So talk of using a Chinese service is pointless and from experience a VPN won't help much when dealing with China.

            Putting aside a whole lot of stuff it says about about policing in the USA I would suggest a VPN with an exit point outside the USA would be a far better way to deal with internal snooping if you are that worried about it.
        • > I am at loss to as to why you think China spying on you is any different to the USA spying on you?

          One spies on you to know what you're up to *in case* you're up to no good. The other spies on you so that it can exert control over you, be that through 'influence' or through election meddling, or whatever else.

          One is creepy enough, and arguably an infringement on your liberty, The other doesn't infringe on your liberty per-se, but it intends you to have a lot less liberty in future.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      There will be countries lining up for this. The US view is not the view of most countries.

      Plus, what choice do they have? It's Elon Musk and Starlink, or China. The Chinese system will doubtless be cheaper, and the ability for governments to control access to it and what information is allowed to be accessed through it is seen as a feature.

      From what I've read the Chinese system will use newer technology that makes it practical to integrate into mobile devices. Huawei are basically unrivalled in that area. T

    • Considering the venom with which Elon is despised by the left and the US government,I daresay they'd both consider it.

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

      Launch all the StarLink rivals you like. What countries outside of the axis of evil would even consider using them?

      What is the relevance to the common person of whether they get their internet from the fascist regime in China or from a corporation run by the fascist Elon Musk? Either way their traffic will be inspected, either way their banking will be encrypted, either way they pay their money and their packets get routed and transmitted.

    • Do you not believe you could move encrypted data across their networks where they couldn't spy on you?

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • How long before we have a satellite collision? Is there some international agency that assigns orbits?

    Same thing for spectrum. Who handles that?

    • The sky isn't all that crowded yet, and I believe spectrum is governed by the areas that are being served.

    • Generally NASA, the European, Russian, and Chinese space agencies cooperate. There is a general ruleset on who gets priority, and satellites are expensive (or at least were expensive) enough to avoid engaging in critical brinkmanship.

      It will be interesting. At least these orbits are low enough that an debris will be down relatively quickly.

    • How long before we have a satellite collision? Is there some international agency that assigns orbits?

      Same thing for spectrum. Who handles that?

      Generally, think about this: The Earth is less than 8,000 miles in diameter (ignore the fact that it is not a perfect sphere). So it's about 4,000 miles from your position to the center of the Earth. Now go up 1,200 more miles and form a perfect sphere. Put 100,000 things in orbit up there. How much space is there between objects? A sphere with 5,200 miles in radius has a surface area of 4 Pi radius^2. So you have 12*5,200*5,200 = 324 million square miles. Say you have 100,000 satellites in orbit, and you p

    • by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @12:20AM (#64689518)

      Same thing for spectrum. Who handles that?

      Currently, the ITU: https://www.itu.int/ [itu.int]

    • These satellites mark the first step in the company's effort to create a 15,000-strong network of Low Earth Orbit satellites, which the firm has dubbed the "Thousand Sails Constellation."

      That's actually a mistranslation, if you look closely at æå--çäåOEåçYæ it actually says "Kessler Syndrome Roulette".

      • At that altitude I don't think that's strictly true, it should clear out pretty fast after an "event"?

    • by rossdee ( 243626 )

      "Same thing for spectrum. Who handles that?"

      Charter Communications

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Spectrum is managed by individual countries, but of course radio waves don't stop at boarders. What tends to happen is disputed frequencies become unusable near boarders, everything from AM radio to cellular to radar.

      As such the operators of these networks will want to have regional agreements in place before enabling service in individual countries, to avoid getting jammed by neighbours.

    • Already a concern, if it hasn't already happened: https://www.linkedin.com/posts... [linkedin.com] (I saw previously they were reporting it as a collision event - I guess the truth is they don't know for certain, and LongMarch rockets seem to leave debris in orbit quite readily).

      Essentially, there are now a lot more bits of crap up there than were there before they launched these 18 satellites. If they keep doing it the same way, LEO's going to be a bit of a mess.

    • How long before we have a satellite collision?

      Probably sometime after ground-based astrophotgraphy becomes impossible.

    • Not related to the constellation, but it looks like the rocket's upper stage popped [space.com] (2 out of 7).
  • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @12:34AM (#64689538) Journal

    more of their astropics will be photobombed with streaks

  • The dark web is about to get a whole lot easier to access. China's network being available in America opens doors for new opportunities for criminal activity.

    And with this, Hollywood lost the copyright war.

    I forsee selling of this equipment to be banned in America. Hopefully they will open source major parts of the network so that anyone can connect (with a subscription, but using home built hardware).

    I personally want an alternative to the American internet without leaving American soil, even if it's
    • With that said, I hope the world eventually realizes the narratives and bias stories that each nation tells about the other and it levels the playing field. Unfortunately, the world uprising will be resisted at all costs again and again. It's been tried once with Anonymous, which fizzled out in most part due to arrests being made, shadow banning, outright bans, and 'disinformation' police.

      Looking forward to a round 2, and world peace, eventually.
    • Until China demonstrates the new satellites mesh with each other like the latest starlink generation, we have to assume they are bent pipe mode for real time consideration. Being store and forward is an option for some applications would be trick.
  • All hail China and their Starlink* overlords.

    Thank you for pleasing us with your internets and your trust in me to do this correctly and pay the bill on time.

    --
    I grew up in Texas, but that was 20 years ago. -- Bill Paxton

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Thank you for pleasing us with your internets and your trust in me to do this correctly and pay the bill on time.

      If you look closely, notice how they don't use the name "Internet", but instead use "communication services" and what I think translates to "multimedia" but may be just "media"

      ScienceAlert in their own article says "Internet" but not as a quote or anything.

      The original announcement only has one comparison to starlink without context, and all the other comparisons to starlink are immediately followed by the number of satellites planned.
      I'm reading this not as claiming to be a rival to starlinks services, but

  • by nothinginparticular ( 6181282 ) on Thursday August 08, 2024 @07:18AM (#64689954)
    Starlink is planning to launch 42k LEO satellites! Every superpower will want their own so multiply that figure. The expected life span on a LEO satellite is a mere 5 years! After which they'll be deorbited and will burn up in the atmosphere. That suggests that starlink alone will need to deorbit 8400 satellites annually. Meanwhile, researchers now think that the combusted materials might destroy the ozone layer. What could possibly go wrong with this hairbrained scheme?
  • We're going to end up with a Dyson shell around the earth pretty soon.

  • Odds on the Chinese satellites somehow "whoopsie!" interfering with Starlink signals?
  • 6012 to go.

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