Intel and Karma Partner To Develop Software-Defined Car Architecture (arstechnica.com) 53
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Intel is partnering with Karma Automotive to develop an all-new computing platform for vehicles. The new software-defined vehicle architecture should first appear in a high-end electric coupe from Karma in 2026. But the partners have bigger plans for this architecture, with talk of open standards and working with other automakers also looking to make the leap into the software-defined future. [...] In addition to advantages in processing power and weight savings, software-defined vehicles are easier to update over-the-air, a must-have feature since Tesla changed that paradigm. Karma and Intel say their architecture should also have other efficiency benefits. They give the example of security monitoring that remains active even when the vehicle is turned off; they move this to a low-powered device using "data center application orchestration concepts."
Intel is also contributing its power management SoC to get the most out of inverters, DC-DC converters, chargers, and as you might expect, the domain controllers use Intel silicon as well, apparently with some flavor of AI enabled. [...] Karma's first car to use the software-defined vehicle architecture will be the Kayeva, a $300,000 two-door with 1,000 hp (745 kW) on tap, which is scheduled to arrive in two years. But Intel and Karma want to offer the architecture to others in the industry. "For Tier 1s and OEMs not quite ready to take the leap from the old way of doing things to the new, Karma Automotive will play as an ally, helping them make that transition," said [Karma President Marques McCammon]. "Together, we're harnessing the combined might of Intel's technological prowess and Karma's ultra-luxury vehicle expertise to co-develop a revolutionary software-defined vehicle architecture," said McCammon. "This isn't just about realizing Karma's full potential; it's about creating a blueprint for the entire industry. We're not just building exceptional vehicles, we're paving the way for a new era of automotive innovation and offering a roadmap for those ready to make the leap."
Intel is also contributing its power management SoC to get the most out of inverters, DC-DC converters, chargers, and as you might expect, the domain controllers use Intel silicon as well, apparently with some flavor of AI enabled. [...] Karma's first car to use the software-defined vehicle architecture will be the Kayeva, a $300,000 two-door with 1,000 hp (745 kW) on tap, which is scheduled to arrive in two years. But Intel and Karma want to offer the architecture to others in the industry. "For Tier 1s and OEMs not quite ready to take the leap from the old way of doing things to the new, Karma Automotive will play as an ally, helping them make that transition," said [Karma President Marques McCammon]. "Together, we're harnessing the combined might of Intel's technological prowess and Karma's ultra-luxury vehicle expertise to co-develop a revolutionary software-defined vehicle architecture," said McCammon. "This isn't just about realizing Karma's full potential; it's about creating a blueprint for the entire industry. We're not just building exceptional vehicles, we're paving the way for a new era of automotive innovation and offering a roadmap for those ready to make the leap."
They are ALL software defined. (Score:3)
All modern vehicles are "software defined". Without microcode they will not function at all. Internal combustion engines can now be tuned not just for efficiency or performance but also characteristics like noise, vibration, and harshness (or "NVH") but more to the point, they do not have anything like a limp home mode that can function if the PCM has cratered. Their limp home functions are all implemented in software, too. This actually has created significant negative effects, like automatic transmissions which can function only in one gear (usually second) when limping when the old ones which were hydraulically controlled but with some electronic features (like overdrive) would usually have at least two gears to work with if the TCM failed.
Re: (Score:3)
They mean that the software will be downgraded on the fly to make features that came with the car subscription based.
Re: (Score:2)
If the points fail in your 1960's petrol car, there's no limp mode. It just stops working completely.
A limp-mode is a positive benefit. It means the system can continue to function following a failure of a component that is required for normal functionality.
It also usually means the failure of a component doesn't cascade to destroying the entire system.
A valve is leaking in your transmission? The TCM detects excessive slip and goes in to limp mode. Better than slipping the clutches and wearing them out befo
Re: (Score:2)
There is a balance somewhere. For example, my older car will detect if the radiator failed, and go into limp mode, running on fewer cylinders to maximize cooling. However, when one has too many things computer controlled, having the entire car fail to start with a cryptic code... and it was found that it was some random sensor buried deep somewhere that failed, after thousands of dollars in labor, isn't the way to go.
I still wonder why we have not had vehicles go back to manual gearboxes, except have the
Re: (Score:2)
I still wonder why we have not had vehicles go back to manual gearboxes, except have the computer be able to do the clutch and shifting.
Because a computer-controlled manual tranny is still not as efficient as a CVT. We're also not too far off from the point where anything that's not a plug-in hybrid or BEV isn't going to meet efficiency standards for most developed countries not named "USA", so there's little incentive to continue to develop a dead-end technology.
Re: (Score:2)
CVTs have serious problems on their own. Between the low ability to handle torque (which is why Toyota has first gear as a separate gear in their non-hybrid CVT), low high speed performance (which is why several automakers have a separate system within CVT for high speed) and extreme and very costly reliability problems, their value is questionable.
Yes, it allows engine to operate at most efficient RPM. But the cost of getting that is quite extreme. To the point where when hybrids incorporate CVTs, they're
Re: (Score:2)
A manual transmission with a computer controlled clutch and shifting?
BMW's SMG is just that. Mercedes had their own one too, both since the 90's.
Dual clutch transmissions are pretty much the same idea.
Re: (Score:2)
Dual clutch gearboxes are essentially what you want and they are readily available. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I loved my DCT rigs.
Re: (Score:2)
I still wonder why we have not had vehicles go back to manual gearboxes, except have the computer be able to do the clutch and shifting.
You have to have actuators operate the clutch and transmission, and you either need a disconnecting shift lever, or you will have a lever moving around inside the vehicle while shifting is occurring. The disconnecting shift lever is a point of failure. The clutch and shift actuators are points of failure. Advertising "our product may fail so you can drive it yourself if necessary" is not a strong positive message for most buyers.
Re: (Score:2)
Makes sense. I wonder if it is better than a hydraulic transmission mechanism with brake bands or a CVT. At worst, it can just not use a clutch and have the syncros as a replaceable wear item (/s of course.)
The goal is something that is easily serviceable and parts can be made fairly easily or at least acquired with short supply chains, with as little need for fancy, proprietary electronics, as possible.
Re: (Score:2)
Funny, in all my many years of driving, I have NEVER owned an automatic transmission.
All my cars are and have been manual transmission.
They're still out there.
Re: (Score:2)
My EV doesn't have any transmission. Just an electric motor connected directly to the wheels.
This is a much more reliable system. It eliminates thousands of precision moving parts and all of the software to control it.
Re: (Score:2)
It can't possibly be as much fun as the ICE cars I've had over my lifetime to date....
The have all be 2-seater sports cars...manual transmission.
The 1986 Porsche 911 Turbo "technically" has 4 seats, but you couldn't fit much more than a couple bags of groceries back there, so I don't count
Re: (Score:2)
This is more or less what Fiat's DDCT transmissions do.
In practice its a complicated system that does not quite meet the smoothness commuters expect, and disappoints performance oriented drivers as well.
I have had a couple and I liked them over all personally but I can also see why they have not 'taken over the market'
Re: (Score:2)
I think this is only going to get worse. Full drive by wire is coming, and if something happens with that, it means a guaranteed wreck, as one has zero control (steering, brakes, acceleration) of the vehicle. Already, most modern cars have an accelerator which just transmits position.
This probably had to be a Chinese company that does this (because American companies would kill this project immediately), but it would be nice for a company that comes out with a servicable vehicle, similar to how a FairPhon
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"especially proprietary CPUs and firmware which can't easily be replaced."
After market ECU have been a thing for many years, direct injection and DCT transmissions makes it harder , but yes they can be replaced. You may not have the same level of infotainment software, but the car should still be able to run.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"what happens when those systems fail, either due to actual hardware failure, or bad firmware/software"
At the worst, much the same as happens when a brake pipe fails.
Re: (Score:2)
At the worst, much the same as happens when a brake pipe fails.
Intelligently designed brake systems have at least two separate driving cylinders in the master, and some of them are even split diagonally instead of front/rear so that you still have braking force on both sides of the vehicle if one fails. Then they use electronic proportioning, without which you do have to brake more carefully but you can still brake.
Re: (Score:2)
You're touching on an issue I've noticed before: the lack of backup systems. If we have vehicles that are entirely 'fly by wire', including steering and brakes, what happens when those systems fail, either due to actual hardware failure, or bad firmware/software?
I'm sure some idiot somewhere will say, "The emergency brake must remain physical." But good luck getting grandma to remember where that is.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure some idiot somewhere will say, "The emergency brake must remain physical." But good luck getting grandma to remember where that is.
It was possible to use the hand parking brake as an emergency brake in general, or with some caution, even a foot parking brake (just don't get carried away, they are hard to release rapidly.) And that was indeed a good feature. Some vehicles, like almost any Mercedes, actually have a parking brake system that can make a pretty good stop. They have a fully separate brake system that will function even if you lose a pad or something from the primary brake.
That it won't help your forgetful grandma doesn't mak
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, on a lot of Audis the only difference between the cheaper and more expensive models is a couple of bits in the ECU that tell it how much power to make the engine produce, what the maximum speed is, and what the 0-100 time should be.
Karma? Seriously? (Score:2)
I suppose there are worse choices but that's a very short list
Re: (Score:2)
created from the corporate assets of Fisker Automotive after its bankruptcy
OMG. This is all per the Karma Automotive Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]
Oops, that's not really American of you, Intel. Do Better.
dealer pitch buy your data plan now or pay (Score:2)
dealer pitch buy your data plan now or pay up to $20.00 /MB in roaming fees at pay as you go rates.
Seriously? (Score:2)
What a huge waste. There's no need for this. Work on vehicle full self-driving car tech instead.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, work on that thing that'll never happen. Sounds like a good investment.
Re: (Score:2)
It'll probably happen eventually. Hundreds of years from now, or decades from now, we don't know. We just know it is highly unlikely to happen within a decade. Beyond that, prognostication is pointless, as we have no idea what next successful technological breakthrough in that field will be like.
Re: (Score:2)
Is it just me, or does this whole plan sound like something that'll never happen either though? I can remember my teachers at 6th form telling me that car makers were "looking at" using networks in cars something like 30 years ago. Even that's not fully "the norm" yet.
My view of the car industry is that they're pretty anti-tech. Where they have to have it, they want 'box shifting' - they don't want endless updates or whatever to think about. How many cars *still* don't have auto-updating maps on their GPS?
Re: (Score:2)
It's been the norm for decades now.
My 17 year old car sends most of the signals around the car on a few wires.
The engine, transmission, and safety systems are connected by 2 wires, everything else by another 2 wires. One of the computers connects to both CAN buses and copies data between the two.
Later models use automotive Ethernet or Flexray.
Must have feature (Score:2)
" software-defined vehicles are easier to update over-the-air, a must-have feature since Tesla changed that paradigm."
I'd rather have a car that doesn't need software updates.
How many deaths will USA accept? (Score:2)
Nobody cares about the >40,000 dead every year because any changes may impact your personally flawless driving habits. Other smaller things we can freak out and even invade countries over (or as some people told me, Iraq was for lowering their gas prices and that was justification enough!)
So just how BIG can the death toll get before people care enough to stop it? As long as the changes are gradual and align with their habits/feelings I think many times more can die. We don't do anything to limit childr
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You wouldn't steal a video game about stealing cars.
Re: (Score:2)
Muricans get to skip that one, as PRC and EU are the leaders in introducing this sort of tool of totalitarian control in the name of "safety, security".
Re: (Score:2)
I'd rather have a car that doesn't need software updates.
These haven't existed for 20 years. The difference now is that when you need a software update your car isn't subject to a nation wide recall for that software update.
Software-defined car? (Score:1)
So I can go from "Honda Civic" mode to "Ferrari mode" to "Minivan mode" at the touch of a button?
If I'm feeling very nostalgic, I'll try "station wagon full of kids in the cargo-area seats" mode. With the entertainment center in "8-track tape mode."
Re: (Score:2)
I'd just be happy with "1970s Firebird mode", although this likely means the vehicle will deliberately handle poorly.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah....but, it comes with a case of coors beer appearing in your back seat....and your very own personal "Frog".
Am I the only one here who would prefer.. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
..that there were vehicle choices that were built as simply as possible?
AFAICT there are lots of us here who feel the same way. Sadly, we don't represent a big enough market for all the Big Tech companies who want control over both our personal data and our very lives. Besides, we know when tech companies - including auto makers - are scamming us and making shit up. They don't like us.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
..that there were vehicle choices that were built as simply as possible?
You actually can still buy reproductions of classic vehicles, and the price really isn't that far off from the average price of today's new cars. The downside is, you can't bring back yesterday's gas prices, so the vehicle will be rather expensive to fuel.
End Result (Score:2)
"My Karma ran over my Dogma..."
Re: (Score:2)
underrated
Tesla should finish releasing their open source OS (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh please no. The last thing we need is more cars on the road with Tesla's stupid design decisions.
Black slate design dillema (Score:2)
There's already been one for years. (Score:2)
It's called AutoSAR. Pretty much all the major vehicle manufacturers already use it.
It's a massively bloated, pointlessly complex, very limited piece of crap.