Europe Jumps On the Train (elpais.com) 140
Night trains are experiencing a resurgence across Europe as travelers seek more environmentally friendly alternatives to flying. European Sleeper, a Dutch cooperative, recently launched a new overnight route from Brussels to Prague, extending its existing service to Berlin. The 13-hour journey traverses Germany in refurbished 1970s-era carriages, accommodating up to 600 passengers. Bart Poels, head of service, reports high demand with most routes fully booked through September.
Passengers are citing various reasons for choosing night trains, including reduced carbon footprint, city center-to-center convenience, and cost savings on hotel accommodations, El Pais reports. The diverse clientele includes executives, families, and retirees. This revival comes after years of decline in night train services. Austrian railway OBB's Nightjet brand, launched in 2016, has also sparked renewed interest in overnight rail travel. The COVID-19 pandemic further accelerated the trend as travelers sought alternatives to flying. European officials are supporting the expansion of cross-border rail connections. The European Commission has backed pilot projects for more frequent and affordable services, while the European Investment Bank has provided loans for new equipment purchases.
Passengers are citing various reasons for choosing night trains, including reduced carbon footprint, city center-to-center convenience, and cost savings on hotel accommodations, El Pais reports. The diverse clientele includes executives, families, and retirees. This revival comes after years of decline in night train services. Austrian railway OBB's Nightjet brand, launched in 2016, has also sparked renewed interest in overnight rail travel. The COVID-19 pandemic further accelerated the trend as travelers sought alternatives to flying. European officials are supporting the expansion of cross-border rail connections. The European Commission has backed pilot projects for more frequent and affordable services, while the European Investment Bank has provided loans for new equipment purchases.
Night trains are really good. (Score:5, Insightful)
Go straight to the station after work, pick up some food. Get on the train, kick back, relax have a slow dinner, read a book, go to bed and wake, get some breakfast, have a shower and arrive refreshed at your destination in the city centre.
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As always: Right tool for the job.
Time is the issue, money no issue? Plane, or perhaps car, depending.
Relaxation is a priority? Take the train.
But sometimes the train is faster, so you need to do your research.
Took night trains in the early 2000s. For me an early morning shower is a non-negotiable, as is a good coffee. Wasn't on the train. Also, I didn't sleep very well. So for me, pretty much a no go. But if the accommodation is upgraded, I'd give it another shot.
Convenience should be a factor, but first,
Re:Night trains are really good. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Also worth keeping in mind, that we still often pack our own food for trips, whatever the transport.
Rízek na cestu :)
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Are there showers for rent near train stations? Or do you have to get a health club membership or something? I for one need a shower in the morning before I am fit to mix with society, except maybe in one of those countries where people only wash certain body parts and call it good. They might not notice.
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The night train from London to Inverness has showers on the train.
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Some night trains have showers on them. Either communal (1 shower for a carriage) or some even have it in-suite with the toilet.
People seem to know what amenities are offered - if the train has showers and
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In France the Gare bathrooms have showers (they are not free however)
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You guessed wrong. Have another go.
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Eh moron alert.
I'm telling you about an actual real world experience of mine, not a supposed real world experience that you assume happens because you can't imagine anyone doing a good job of public transport. Your wild guesses are not the same as my reality, neither do they carry the same weight.
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Well time for you to get a brain. We both know this isn't possible of course.
BFD.
The entire thread is about SLEEPER trains. Are you that thick? Yes, yes you are.
Wow, ONE whole train!
That's half the entire lot of sleeper trains in the country. There are only two.
Obviously you're a seasoned travelled here yankee, I must bow to your superior knowledge.
I mean, you really should given you know bugger all about the country you claim to be a resident of. Maybe you should get out of your brexity little crap town an
Bring back car trains (Score:4, Interesting)
I like driving and I often drive long distance in europe, but what would be really good would be driving the car onto a train, sleep overnight in the sleeper and drive off the other end 500-1000 miles away rested and with the car not having those miles put on the clock. These trains existed in the 70s (maybe some still do somewhere) but it would be nice to have them back.
Re:Bring back car trains (Score:4, Informative)
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Didn't know that, thanks for the info.
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Otherwise it was a good experience, at the end of the day you leave from one city centre and arrive fresh in the other.
Some also have great on-board dining.
Re:Bring back car trains (Score:4, Interesting)
It generally includes a sleeper compartment for two.
These trains were disappearing but since recent they are again gaining in popularity.
Re: Bring back car trains (Score:3)
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Czech republic - Slovakia has such a connection
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Just a smal town girl (Score:2)
Livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train going anywhere
Re: Just a smal town girl (Score:2)
No such thing as South Detroit.
When were overnight trains not common? (Score:2)
I was surprised to read the words 'resurgence' as if it had ever gone down. Many years back (I don't live in Europe these days) I have travelled several times on overnight trains there crossing countries and geographies, and as always, loved the journeys. To me the journey is most of the joy of going somewhere, and nothing beats the lullaby of the train rolling on the tracks, and the sounds changing as we cross bridges, tunnels and stations platforms.
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Now ÖBB from neighboring Austria has picked up the slack and offers sleeper trains named NightJet (NJ) in Germany. Polish Railways offers sleeper trains from Germany to Poland under the Euronight (EN) label.
Have you tried sleeping on a train? (Score:3)
I've used sleeper trains a couple of times. Both occasions I arrived at my destination after a sleepless night. I guess if you spent several days riding the sleepers you could get used to it, but who does that?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
These guys.
Tickets (Score:3)
I can buy a plane ticket in less than 15 minutes, even if I fly over all countries of Europe. Buying train tickets, however, is a hell. The national train systems are very loosely connected and often don't know anything about one another.
For example, I bought a train ticket from the Netherlands to Luxembourg. I specifically asked if I could make a reservation, as we were traveling with bicycles. In the Netherlands, they said that that was impossible. When we were one foot over the border, the Belgian train attendant exclaimed "but you should have made a reservation!".
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Priced a train trip 30 years ago in US, $2,000 (Score:3, Informative)
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Trains aren't a North American thing. After the car took over, rail transport became freight primary, so things like passenger trains are the exception. This makes them really just for tourists most of the time.
In Europe most rail lines have remained passenger primary making them che
Amtrak hack (Score:2)
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Yeah, and when Amtrak realizes they need to link Phoenix into the rail system I would approach this as a 10 day vacation, with 3-4 days spend in a hotel on tracks, giving me a scenic tour of the Southwest or California. Remember, Europe is postage-stamp sized compared to half the US.
Re: Amtrak hack (Score:2)
Night trains are great, but... (Score:2)
Night trains are great in principle - I have used them. Go to sleep in city X, wake up in city Y. Whether for business or pleasure, that is a real luxury.
However, the sleeper cars are generally very old, and do not meet modern expectations. Today, people expect a micro-hotel room on wheels. They do not want to share that room with strangers. They want a door that securely locks, so they don't have to worry about theft.
I hope the concept stays popular, and that the train companies get some modern equipm
Yes, please (Score:3)
Can recommend. Didn't actually use a sleeper but just spent 2 weeks travelling as a family of 4 (two kids nearly 10 years old) on trains around Europe.
When you factor in flight delays, security and the fact trains terminate in the city centre, trains are (generally) faster door-to-door than planes. And when they weren't, we spent a night in another city.
"Who wants a day in Paris, kids?"
Again a lack of Funny (Score:2)
But the story had potential.
The train fad won't last (Score:2)
and I'll probably be downvoted for saying it but;
We've always romanticized train travel. It's like the movie Titanic, but nobody is going to drown, no ship is going to sink. People from different walks and stations of life are forced together for an extended period of time and next thing you know Leo is painting naked chicks in the baggage car.
Yet there's a reason we left it behind... At least in the US. Gas was cheap, cheaper than the cost of buying a family of 4 train passage. You didn't have to share
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Gas was cheap and cars were cheap. Your car is a consumable commodity that you have to factor in to the cost of the drive too. Insurance companies are also moving toward mileage-based fee structures so if that's your situation it figures in to the cost as well. Furthermore you have to figure in the cost of your labor in operating the vehicle and if you value that more or less than sitting back and watching a movie or playing a game on your portable console/phone/laptop.
I used to take the train from London to Edinburgh (Score:2)
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Informative)
Because the airplane is immune to noise, interrupted sleep and smells...
I find the TSA dildo up myself much preferrable indeed. Never seen a thief on board of a train tho, maybe it's the need for a ticket, maybe it's the ending up in another city in the middle of the night...
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thieves are unfortunately a real thing, but it varies by country. It's more common in the south and east of europe. They are not on the train, they are only boarding the trains at the stops for a quick "grab and dash".
The conductors are not cops, they can't do much about that. But you can protect yourself quite easily. Here's what I told my students to do on our night train trip from Zurich to Zagreb last year.
1) Lock the compartment door from the inside.
2) Don't have *anything* that can be grabbed within 1m of the compartment door.
3) If you hear something trying to open the door, make noise / turn on light etc.
1) Doesn't fully protect you because some of these trains are old and the locks are poor, but 2) usually does the job. The thieves only have seconds to get the job done, so if they don't see anything up for grabs, they immediately move on to the next compartment.
My students at first actually believed I was just trying to scare them, but sure enough, after we crossed from Austria into Slovenia, the thieves were there at one of the stops in the middle of the night. However, nothing was stolen, probably due to our precautions.
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Re:No, thanks. (Score:4, Insightful)
If nothing was stolen, how do you know thieves were present? Somebody else complained about theft?
You can tell because you can hear them trying to get into the prior cabin, your cabin, the next cabin...
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on the other hand they can't have a gun either, if you can and they can and they know that you can, they shoot first (possibly with a makeshift silencer) and still get the goods because they have the surprise factor in their favor.
the only thing that curtails this kind of behavior is serious policing and going after every single petty thief, no matter how small the stolen item is, if they can't profit from it, it will cease.
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As if not legally being allowed a gun is preventing people from having guns. You realize most gang members have priors on their record and can't have guns, yet do anyway, right?
Even in California, you hear about people committing crimes with a gun even though by law, they've already lost their right to have a firearm. Laws against firearms just add more barriers for law abiding citizens. Unless the criminal is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (LOL, not in California), what difference does it make
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yep. He's terrified of other people, and wants to kill someone.
I live in the DC 'burbs, and have never owned gun, nor felt any need to, not growing up in Philly, or living in Austin, TX, or in Chicago.
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Actually, quite the opposite.
I hope and pray I never have to aim and shoot any of my guns at any one or anything in self defense.
But it is better to have something and never need it, than to need it and not have it.
To speak that there is no evil in the world, that there are no home invasions, or dangerous, sick, violent people out there is just to deny reality.
If the situation comes up, I'd at least rather have a fighting chance.
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"But it is better to have something and never need it, than to need it and not have it"
Ah, it's been a while since I've heard that. My response was:
It's better to never need it and not have it, than to have it and never need it.
Maybe still is.
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Thing is, you don't know what the future may bring. By having a gun, you at least got that covered if something does happen. I can only assume that people think bad things don't happen and certainly won't happen to them. It just comes across as rather naive.
It also baffles me that many (not all) Democrats think disarming the populace is a good thing when someone like Trump could actually win the election. If you truly believe that he will end our Democracy, wouldn't you want some form of protection? You can
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You can buy a little magnetic thing you stick on the door so that it beeps loudly if someone opens it.
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Thieves are unfortunately a real thing, but it varies by country. It's more common in the south and east of europe. They are not on the train, they are only boarding the trains at the stops for a quick "grab and dash".
For example, in Russia the mob used to run the trains. So expect to be robbed, but you could help them out by joining the Russian mob [youtube.com] for a summer and robbing yourself.
Night trains vary country to country in services and accommodations especially if you are traveling solo. Some of them only offer a standard seat whereas others offer sleeping pods.
My students at first actually believed I was just trying to scare them, but sure enough, after we crossed from Austria into Slovenia, the thieves were there at one of the stops in the middle of the night. However, nothing was stolen, probably due to our precautions.
Generally the most valuable things I have on me are my phone, wallet, and passport. Sometimes I have my iPad for longer trips. I usually keep these with me. My l
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But the airplane will be like a 2 hour flight instead of the 13 hours of train.
So yeah, even if the airplane is more noisy & smelly, who cares? you don't have to sleep there and it'll be over way quicker.
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Interesting)
You fly from city center to city center?
In two hours? Including security check and boarding?
This for people who want to use their time for something useful: for example sleep.
In a two hours flight plus boarding and onboarding: there is no time to sleep. So exit the destination at 22:00? And now? Taxi into the center for 50EUR?
Another hour? Or Taxi/walk to closet public transport? You can be happy, if still are operating around 23:00/23:30.
And then to the hotel?
I prefer to arrive 8:30 or 9:00 or worst case 6:00 at a railway station - in the city center.
Then I look for coffee shop of yet unknown brand, and check the coffee, and perhaps a local speciality!
As we say in martial arts: slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
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I'd rather just drive but I say that as an American that lives in a country that's essentially the same size as the entire EU, if not larger. Trains would be pretty awesome though, but we've just not bothered with passenger rail to such an extent that it's viable here. I hate flying as well and seldom do it. It wasn't so bad before all the security theater and massive invasion of privacy but some people did some stuff and now we all got to suffer for it.
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Informative)
But the airplane will be like a 2 hour flight instead of the 13 hours of train.
So yeah, even if the airplane is more noisy & smelly, who cares? you don't have to sleep there and it'll be over way quicker.
A 2 hour flight, plus the time it takes to get through an airport (which is considerable in the US but a bit faster in Europe) and then you're not really at your destination, you'll need to get there (and if you're lucky, there will be a train from the airport). I'd take an overnight train over an evening flight any day of the week as the train will be more comfortable.
I've taken the Eurostar from London to Paris, less than 3 hours and far less faffing about at London St Pancras compared to Heathrow or Gatwick airports and I still consider them some of the easiest airports to get through. What's even better is that immigration control is on the boarding side (you enter the EU in London and Engand in Paris) so when the journey is finished you just walk out onto the street. I imagine if I lived on the continent instead of the UK I'd be taking a lot more trains. It's slower than flying by pure trip time, but faster overall.
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But the airplane will be like a 2 hour flight instead of the 13 hours of train. So yeah, even if the airplane is more noisy & smelly, who cares? you don't have to sleep there and it'll be over way quicker.
Name a fate worse than death ... spending 2 hours on a RyanAir flight with drunk & boozing passengers when a fight breaks out.
Seems to happen a lot over there. Or it simply gets a lot of "press" thanks to Reuters.
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Because the airplane is immune to noise, interrupted sleep and smells...
I find the TSA dildo up myself much preferrable indeed. Never seen a thief on board of a train tho, maybe it's the need for a ticket, maybe it's the ending up in another city in the middle of the night...
This was about a 13 hour train ride. By way of comparison, when I want to go to Orlando I can take Amtrak or fly.
Amtrak time: 22 hours. Flying time: 3 hours
I'm taking the airplane.
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By way of comparison, when I want to go to Orlando I can take Amtrak or fly.
Amtrak time: 22 hours. Flying time: 3 hours I'm taking the airplane.
You cannot compare Amtrak with European trains. Railways in the USA are for freight, at freight speeds. Passenger trains have to fit in where and when they can, waiting in loops sometimes for hours for a prioritised freight train to pass, and when they are cleared to get on the main line they cannot go faster than the freight train ahead of them. As a result, long distance trains in the USA seem mainly to be for tourists to look at the scenery.
In Europe OTOH, passenger trains are the priority and often u
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Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Informative)
I believe the second-class sleeper cabins have 4 beds. If you travel in family, you reserve the whole, so there are no strangers. If you travel alone, you can opt for first class, where you're alone in the cabin.
Re:No, thanks. (Score:5, Informative)
The one time I did this, there were 2nd Class 2-bed ones and you could book one to yourself for a fee.
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Cheapest sleepers have 6 beds. This is in southern France but I remember riding this in Italy decades ago and they also had 6 beds. No idea why this guy thinks there are 8 in the compartment.
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As a young man I took a cheap night train from Amsterdam to the Alps, cheap meaning you were 6 in a compartment with reclining seats and the others were also young, we had a great night and slept well.
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Bullshit. As a young man I took a cheap night train from Amsterdam to the Alps, cheap meaning you were 6 in a compartment with reclining seats and the others were also young, we had a great night and slept well.
Plus, you get to travel at night. You can leave at the end of you last work day before your vacation, pick up your luggage, head to the train station, travel while you sleep and arrive in the morning, store your luggage at the hotel until check-in and use the day for something enjoyable. If you fly or drive you waste an entire day traveling.
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You can, for a bit more money, get a 2-person compartment and for even a bit more get that to yourself. I did that once with just me in a 2-bed one. As to "thieves", there is a concierge in the train carriage and you get asked for your ticket when boarding. Whether you can sleep is a personal factor. I found I cannot really do so, but the conditions are not extreme in any way. The 8-person compartment in the carriage was used by 8 young ladies that were traveling over Europe together.
So, yes, this is a vali
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Trains are a lot cheaper (financially and ecologically) per passenger-kilometer than planes. Carbon footprint of train-travel is less than 10% per passenger-kilometer than plane travel and I suspect that is at 100% utilization in the planes and the typical 50% utilization in the trains, as trains are rarely packed.
Also note that for train-travel, you need to be there on time, while for airplane it is 2 hours+ in advance as we are talking international flights here. Often you need to add 1-2 hours transfer t
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Unlike on the plane, at least I don't have to cuddle with them.
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"15 carriages, mostly built in the 1970s and slightly, only very slightly, updated, with compartments for one, three or five people"
So it's in the company of a *maximum* of 4 strangers, or for more money, you can have a compartment to yourself.
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We have done a lot of European train travel, my late wife being Swiss, but we have only taken a sleeper once, Lausanne to Venice. We got robbed.
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So don't be such a cheapskate, unless you are travelling with "family".
If you are travelling solo, spend the extra 'coins' for a private room, especially if you can book it in advance. Enjoy the quiet & privacy. And lock the door.
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You can fly across europe on ryanair for 50 euros or less a lot of the time but you get treated like cattle on the way to the abattoir. Americans are used to that but a lot of us europeans are sick of it and would happily pay more for a nicer if longer trip. Obviously there are limits to the distance but for mid distance journeys (up to maybe 500 miles/800 km) the train is often a better option now.
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What's an abattoir? New term for me....
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Slaughterhouse
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Its also british english.
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Only Americans that fly Spirit Airlines or Southwest Airlines truly know what "cattle car" treatment is all about.
And Southwest has one of the most arcane boarding systems I have ever heard when I was regularly using another airline at the adjacent gate.
The bigger US carrier names tend to be decent, but only if you are not flying "Basic Economy" where you will be lucky if you don't sit out on the wing for the entire flight. Regular Economy can still sux for some major US air carriers.
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So your explanation lacks some foundation in reality. Going by train is simply the better alternative.
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nobody gives two damn about carbon footprint it's all about cost because europeans are turning poorer
According to the article, trains are more expensive than low-cost airlines:
(I can't say about Europe, but that was my experience in America: taking a train is actually nicer than taking an airplane, but it a