Dumbphones and Fax Machines Are the New Boss Flex (msn.com) 112
Some executives are embracing old technology like dumbphones and fax machines, seeking digital detox and prioritizing focus. They see these vintage tools as power moves, allowing them to control their time and avoid constant distractions, WSJ writes in a story. These bosses believe old tech enhances leadership, enabling them to be present and productive.
Are these the same guys insisting on 24/7 contact? (Score:4, Insightful)
Are these the same bosses that insist we be on call 24/7 and if we dare take a moment to ourselves we should lose our jobs? What'd be a power-move is telling the entire organization they're off the 24/7 leash cycle. What they're doing is trying to remove themselves from a world that's become scary and frightening to them by retreating from the technology that's flooding our lives every moment of the day and sometimes the night as well. It's the act of cowards, heading back to the relative peace of non-tech tools to avoid the never-ending bzzt *LOOK AT ME* that we're all told is just the way things are done now.
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I believe the Executive motto is "Do as I say, not as I do". At the corporate level, there's this:
"'Money before people.' That’s the company motto - engraved right there on the lobby floor. It just looks more heroic in Latin."
-- Veronica Palmer [wikipedia.org] (Portia de Rossi), Better Off Ted [wikipedia.org], “Racial Sensitivity” (S1:E4)
Clashes with 1% personality types (Score:2)
The 1% personality types which gravitate to working 7 days exclusively for the company need to be always on. It's in their personality.
The need to lead, dominate, influence positively and negatively and directly see the effects on the subordinates is part of this monomania.
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It just looks more heroic in Latin.
Pecunia coram populo.
So heroic, and very pretentious.
Really Hardcore (Score:2)
Are these the same bosses that insist we be on call 24/7
Well, only the _really_ hardcore bosses who will be fully reverting to stone age tribal conditions where you all live together in a cave. However, I suspect this stupid management fad will be short lived when thy realize how bosses were chosen and could be replaced in stone age times....
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Are these the same bosses that insist we be on call 24/7
Well, only the _really_ hardcore bosses who will be fully reverting to stone age tribal conditions where you all live together in a cave. However, I suspect this stupid management fad will be short lived when thy realize how bosses were chosen and could be replaced in stone age times....
I'm bringing a big bat to the next meeting. "Ug challenge tibal leader. Ug smash. New tribal leader."
Re:Really Hardcore (Score:4, Insightful)
Narrator: "Unfortunately for Ug, the tribal leader also brought his rather large and vicious pet wolf into work on that fateful day."
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I'm bringing a big bat to the next meeting. "Ug challenge tibal leader. Ug smash. New tribal leader."
"Code Monkey get up get coffee. Code Monkey go to job."
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new pitch,
the fax is in the office if you want to be cool like us come back to office?!!
or could just be lazy (Score:2)
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They're not lazy, they are purposely making it difficult for you to dispute their refusal.
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Faxing medical records is secure, provides audit logs, and is allowed specifically by law.
You can't intercept a fax without having physical access to the phone line used which makes it a very risky endeavor and federal wiretap laws have teeth.
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Faxing medical records is secure, provides audit logs, and is allowed specifically by law. You can't intercept a fax without having physical access to the phone line used which makes it a very risky endeavor and federal wiretap laws have teeth.
Is that really true anymore? A lot of places use multifunction devices that can print and scan over the network, in addition to being plugged into a phone line for faxes.
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It is rare for home users to have access to this. Sending something digital means attaching a PDF to an email. Even my being in my company's office does not give me a secure link between my company and an insurance company. When I had to do some secure transaction with a legal firm regarding patents, I had to get a special login at a third party site.
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It is rare for home users to have access to this. Sending something digital means attaching a PDF to an email. Even my being in my company's office does not give me a secure link between my company and an insurance company. When I had to do some secure transaction with a legal firm regarding patents, I had to get a special login at a third party site.
Which means that people just scan it up or type it in as a PDF, then attach it to an email, which goes to an Internet fax service after bouncing through the entire globe, then gets "securely" faxed to the insurance company. Up until electronic order entry became a serious thing in American medicine, this was very common for doctors. Because it was (and is) common for them to run 24 hour calls for 5-7 days continuous and they get called all hours of the day and night, they'd have to take a phone call, colle
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It is rare for home users to have access to this. Sending something digital means attaching a PDF to an email. Even my being in my company's office does not give me a secure link between my company and an insurance company. When I had to do some secure transaction with a legal firm regarding patents, I had to get a special login at a third party site.
It really isn't. There are a number of MFC printers that have a fax machine built into them. I'm not talking about a digital service that you email and they send the fax. I mean this machine is typically connected to a network for printing and scanning, as well as connected to a phone line for faxing. Since the machine controlling both is on the network, it could easily be compromised if a bad actor ever gets into the network.
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
Is that really true anymore? A lot of places use multifunction devices that can print and scan over the network, in addition to being plugged into a phone line for faxes.
"FAXing" something is a distinct activity, separate from emailing a picture or a scan of a document. Technical subtleties aside, FAXing is viewed as a point-to-point technology, and as the previous poster mentioned, they generate confirmation reports, etc.
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Is that really true anymore? A lot of places use multifunction devices that can print and scan over the network, in addition to being plugged into a phone line for faxes.
"FAXing" something is a distinct activity, separate from emailing a picture or a scan of a document. Technical subtleties aside, FAXing is viewed as a point-to-point technology, and as the previous poster mentioned, they generate confirmation reports, etc.
Yeah I don't think you're understanding. Fax machines aren't nearly as common as they used to be. However, you can get multifunction printer that also has a fax machine built into it, with the phone line. It can be connected to the network and also dial out through a phone line to send faxes.
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Faxing is just as secure as a HTTP form.
It isn't.
You don't need access exactly in the location of the fax machine. You just need access to ANYWHERE in the lines between the two devices, just like any other man-in-the-middle attack. Its unencrypted communication that is trivial to intercept and decode.
The ONLY reason why fax is still legal, is because it is grandfathered in. That's it. It does not meet any current security requirements.
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
The point isn't "is FAXing secure or not", as a legal matter, it is settled - a FAX meets certain legal requirements.
You remind me of the folks that go to traffic court and insist that there's no way a radar gun in a car going 60 MPH in one direction can accurately report the speed of a car going 60 MPH in the opposite direction. The judge will just wave off your well thought-out dissertation about physics and say "The law says radar guns are accurate in all cases" and find you guilty.
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Could intercepting faxes be LEGAL even, in states with one-side conversation wiretap laws? (ie: you are allowed to secretly record people.)
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Just like a postmarked letter sent through the mail. Maybe certified mail if you really need to audit the travel process. But requiring fax to the exclusion of mail or even just hand delivering it if the office is close enough is intentional.
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"You can't intercept a fax without having physical access to the phone line used"
I get the feeling you're envisioning phone calls running over physically switched circuits. It hasn't worked that way in decades. It's all computer networks, vulnerable to hacking like any other computer network.
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
As a matter of law, they are secure.
As a practical matter, they may not be.
You are welcome to try and convince a judge of your position, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for decision in your favor.
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You make a great argument for why we need to get the average age of lawmakers and judges down to something that at least has a finger on the pulse of current society, and how modern electronics work. If a judge can't understand something that they're making prescident-setting decisions over, then they should be recusing themselves and allowing a judge that understands it to make the ruling. Their egos won't allow for that though.
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They are not intentionally trying to make it difficult. Federal law restricts how medical records can be sent, fax is the least expensive and easy method allowed (other methods include EDI and secure portals, ie ssl/tls). Fax being point to point communications cannot be intercepted easily. Though HIPPA does require precautions to be taken on the receiving end to ensure confidentiality. Email is not allowed.
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Patients aren't restricted under HIPAA. They can send information however they want. It's providers that have to be specific about security.
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There are a variety of legal and business reason FAXing is still used, Google why fax still used [google.com], but here's an article from 2023 specifically about its use in healthcare: The fax is still king in healthcare — and it’s not going away anytime soon [computerworld.com]
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:1)
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It's also a pain in the butt if you're at home and retired and have no access to a fax machine or multi function printer/scanner/fax. The best bet is to head to a local Kinko's... oh wait, this isn't old fashioned Better Call Saul times, it's now Fedex Office or something like that. Then pay a fee to use their fax.
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It is impossible to spy or drop in on an analog fax signaling handshake.
dunno what "hipaa compliant" means but that is obviously not "impossible". you could argue that it is much more involved than e.g. accessing a random email attachment on a flaky department network server or even bob's porn ridden desktop computer, but at a time that was a standard way of eavesdropping. digital/analog isn't really different except for the methods and tools used. point to point isn't what it used to be either.
i see the advantage of there not being any explicit digital copy lying around that c
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
It's. Ice you admit you have no idea what you're talking about before you share your opinion on the topic.
Is there a reason you couldn't open a second browser tag and Google "HIPPA"?
Here's a hint - Health Insurance Protection and Portability Act - it has to do with:
- keeping personal health records private
- provides for COBRA healthcare benefits when you leave a job
Among other things...
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It's. Ice you admit you have no idea what you're talking about before you share your opinion on the topic.
i did google it, just for curoiosity, but i don't really need to know the specifics of any certification to assert that the statement "It is impossible to spy or drop in on an analog fax signaling handshake" is patently wrong. i just mentioned it to underlne that starting the phrase with "faxing is hippa compliant" doesn't make it any less wrong, iow, doesn't mean shit in this context. hope that helps.
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:3, Interesting)
It's HIPAA, not "Hippa."
And it stands for the "Health Information Portability and Accountability Act." Nothing about "Protection" anywhere in there.
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It is impossible to spy or drop in on an analog fax signaling handshake. Therefore no carrier or person in the middle could carbon copy a fax transmission. It can only be machine to machine or machine to digital fax which has to be hipaa compliant signed and all.
Yea, you're just plain wrong [vocal.com] here.
There is absolutely nothing that fax does that cannot be done better with something more modern. The only reason it's still accepted is inertia, the same entities that require its use would rake your ass over the coals if the rest of your data was that insecure.
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
Re: or could just be lazy (Score:2)
It is an accepted legal standard, you are welcome to try and establish some proprietary third-party web-based server service is equal or better than FAXing, but it won't be easy..;
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You cannot listen to two fax machines handshaking and steal the content of a message... Of course if I was wrong you could easily prove it but because it cannot therefore since the beginning of time, fax remains 1 to 1 handshake.
Err... I gave you a link to a piece of software that does exactly that--convert an audio recording of a transmitted fax into visual data.
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I just had an issue with my medical insurance. From the letter they sent, any further dispute on my part could be pursued by FAXing my written . . . . freaking fax! They probably hadn't updated their "claim denial" letter for 20 years.
Faxes aren't going away because they're required by a range of government agencies to do business. And they still have their uses. They're especially still prevalent in the Medical and Legal fields.
There are less drastic solutions (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not an executive, but I am a senior-level manager and deal with distractions all the time. There are simple solutions:
- Use Do Not Disturb
- Don't install Teams or work email on your phone
- If your coworkers need to reach you, ask them to text or call if it's an emergency.
- If they do call, refer them to someone else who can help.
- If there is no one you can refer them to, this is a problem to solve. Train someone. The company does not revolve around *you.*
- Take your PTO.
- When you take our PTO, don't...work.
Maybe not all of these things work for every leader, but the point is, set boundaries and stick to them. If you are not able to set and maintain boundaries, maybe you shouldn't be in management.
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- Don't install Teams or work email on your phone
Not always an option, especially if it's a employer-provided phone.
But DO turn off alerts when you aren't "on the clock" or "on call." If it's a employer-provided phone, just turn it off when you aren't required to answer it.
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Not always an option, especially if it's a employer-provided phone.
If it's an employer-provided phone, you generally won't have a choice of opting for a dumbphone anyway. Heck, one of my friends constantly laments the fact that his work issued him an iPhone because he hates iPhones. Of course, that means he has to carry around two phones when he's on the clock.
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The organization I work for provides phones to its executives.
I couldnÃ(TM)t imagine doing any of that, do you have to ask the boss for permission to listen to music on those things too?
Our plan is unlimited data so you can listen to whatever you want.
Get out find a startup or a corporation that isnÃ(TM)t treating you like a child lmao
How is giving someone a d
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But the moment the workload increases beyond normal, that's when I stick to a strict boundary between work time and free time.
Of course, /r/Antiwork over on Reddit is full of stories where the employer finally decides to call that bluff by threatening the worker with a pink slip. A nice work/life balance sounds nice, but at the end of the day it's still comes down to your boss either granting you that freedom, otherwise it's off to the want ads looking for a new job.
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Yeah, overtime is fine and necessary at times. But when it's a constant, that's when it's a problem. When you work 80 hour weeks all the time just to keep up, that's a sure sign that you need to hire someone to work 40 of those hours. And if the company won't do that, that's not *your* problem to solve, that's the *company's* problem. They hired one of you, do one person's job, not two.
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Yep, that would be a problem! And if you're so concerned about this, then you're bringing the problem on yourself.
Maybe this is the real reason these people are using dumbphones and faxes...it brings them the attention they crave.
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Unfortunately most managers, in the interests of keeping control of their domain, engage in information hiding and not delegating. Means the company hibernates when they're not in the office. It also mean that anyone else who does make a decision get to take the blame if anything goes wrong.
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You're not wrong! And those managers bring burnout on themselves. You *have* to find ways to disconnect. If you can't, you're doing it wrong.
Until ChatGPT sends a fax (Score:2)
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That should be easy enough to cobble together...
As an executive, I get the idea (Score:2)
However, what this really screams is, "I don't have proper boundaries or self control".
The only people that my phone notify me for is my wife and my kids. That's it. *EVERYTHING* else can wait until I decide to intentionally check my phone.
With one exception, sometimes people specifically ask me to pay attention (emergency situation, friends traveling etc...)
Dumbphones don't even really exist anymore (Score:2)
While at the mall (yeah, there's still one of those around where I live), I noticed Metro selling a dumbphone [metrobyt-mobile.com] and was curious about it because it seemed like such an archaic throwback. Looked up the specs on it (using my iPhone, of course) and it turns out it's actually just running a hamstrung version of Android under the hood.
The likely reason is that here in the USA all the major cell providers have shut down their 3G networks, so a phone has to support LTE at a minimum or it won't even work. This mean
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Nokia/HMD launch feature phones that support 4G LTE and use their classical S30+ operating system.
Since 24 April 2024, HMD launched four new 4G feature phones: Nokia 215 4G (Nokia 220 4G in China, India and Vietnam), 225 4G, 235 4G and Nokia 3210 (2024),[9] all supporting the Cloud Phone technology. Both were the final devices than use the brand name Nokia, until HMD 105 and 110, which are the first two devices that use the brand name HMD. These phones drop the name S30+ in favor of the generic Mocor RTOS name.[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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That's good info, thanks. My Nokia 2720 uses a lobotomised Android and it's pretty shit. The hardware is fine, but the predictive text is way worse than what Nokia themselves pioneered a quarter century ago. The whole thing is quite laggy and I feel like it tries to cache every single SMS every time you go to look at a text message. Hopefully S30+ does a better job.
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According to Wikipedia, the 2720 uses KaiOS (Firefox OS), a linux distro that runs web apps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] It's not Android at all, maybe the spent effort to imitate the look and feel?
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According to Wikipedia, the 2720 uses KaiOS (Firefox OS), a linux distro that runs web apps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] It's not Android at all, maybe the spent effort to imitate the look and feel?
Thanks for the info... I was basing my assessment on the file tree I saw when I plugged the phone into my PC. It's still laggy as hell to use, but I guess it's nice to know it's not just a munted Android :-)
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The likely reason is that here in the USA all the major cell providers have shut down their 3G networks, so a phone has to support LTE at a minimum or it won't even work. This means that all of the real throwback phones running on vintage hardware are all paperweights
Not paperweights, e-waste. Millions of devices have been turned into e-waste (yeah, heavy metals, hazardous materials, the works) in the name of the telcos' profits. The telcos should be billed for the disposal of every single working device that they made into e-waste at the flick of a switch.
They are pulling the same stunt in Australia , though they have to keep pushing back the shutdown date because there are so many embedded legacy systems still using 3G... Because 3G is entirely fit for purpose and doe
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Because 3G is entirely fit for purpose and doesn't actually NEED to be turned off.
The problem with the use of older technologies, is that they make less efficient use of the radio spectrum. Since radio spectrum is a finite resource, we do actually need to cease use of the older less efficient technologies in order to repurpose the frequency bands for newer more efficient protocols.
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Such hotspots already exist, usually using wifi or bluetooth for the local part.
Replacing the modem is only possible if the original device manufacturer made it a replaceable part, and a lot of technology these days is designed to be disposable rather than upgradeable.
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A lot of restaurants have been putting their menus out as a QR code, and at most fast food places you'll be waiting a bit longer if you prefer to order the old fashioned way. In the case of McDonald's where they usually have perpetually valid coupons in the app, you'll be spending more cash, too.
Also, I'm not sure what the Venn diagram of people who want/own an EV but dislike smartphones looks like, but while you'll certainly still be able to drive one without a phone, a surprisingly large number of DC fas
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Also, I'm not sure what the Venn diagram of people who want/own an EV but dislike smartphones looks like, but while you'll certainly still be able to drive one without a phone, a surprisingly large number of DC fast chargers can only be activated from their respective smartphone app.
Last time I drove a rental EV, the screen on the random charger displayed some shit about downloading their app, but you could also just tap a debit card and the charger worked fine. If it had needed an app, I'd have walked away, leaving the uncharged EV still sitting at the charger.
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I really don't understand why someone would spend thousands on a vacation and not just pick up some cheap prepaid burner phone [walmart.com] just to use the app.
Maybe because you already spent an outrageous amount of money to go to a Disney park? Seriously. Some people have no sense of worth. Hell, you should be wanting to avoid that anyway. Given Disney's opinion about what it's park staff are allowed to do to you if you agree to use their digital services.
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A lot of restaurants have been putting their menus out as a QR code
Good thing I can't afford them then. I'd hate paying a premium for a dining experience only to be told to do their work for them.
a surprisingly large number of DC fast chargers can only be activated from their respective smartphone app.
That's a
Telex Machine (Score:2)
Nah (Score:2)
I will never work somewhere where fax machines are still being used for any reason. Awful pieces of junk. Any company or industry that is still using fax machines isn't worth doing business with.
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I will never work somewhere where fax machines are still being used for any reason.
Not even for propping open a door?
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Nah, takes up too much floor space. I'd just trip over the damn thing.
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I guess you will never go to a hospital, interact with the DMV (or any other government service), retain a lawyer, or buy a house... All of those entities have fax machines and some even still require their use for some purposes.
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The other examples, just as you said, are a "some". I don't care about those some, because I won't interact with them. I won't use their services, and I will find someone else that doesn't require a fax.
If a law firm requires a fax (specifically from a client) then they aren't a law firm worth anything.
If a realtor requires a fax from me, they are a shit realtor.
There are no good reasons to rely on a fax machine.
Swap "fax machine" for "smart phone" and you have my policy. If your business requires me to use a smartphone, an app, or a QR code, your business won't see a cent from me.
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Requires? Agreed. As an option? I'm ok with it. Or at least, I'm good with QR code menus at bars and restaurants. They don't have to print and clean as many things. I know what all has touched my phone. And if I want to keep a menu for more ordering later, now it doesn't take up space.
At least your examples are a moving forward thing, rather than moving backwards. Moving backwards is always stupid. Always.
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The law is the law, and sometimes it's an ass. Fax is incredibly insecure because it does not do end point authentication and you have no idea if the 'fax' on the receiving end is actually converting the transmission directly to print or if it's putting the image into an email system.
Hell... You can't even tell if the origin is physical or digital.
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Wait until you hear about things like bank drafts, bearer bonds, and cash.
But yes, fax is pretty insecure. It's also legally required for some things at the moment.
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I have worked in the government. In the military. I know of one fax machine that existed, and it absolutely was not for anything secure - because they aren't secure in any way, shape, or form if they are connected to an analog phone line. You can sort of mitigate the security issue by using a completely private network that isn't accessible or overlap with the normal network everyone else uses, but it's still very easy to physically tap. There are newer, digital only, "fax machines" and online fax services
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Not necessarily. Plenty of businesses with bad business strategies and practices still manage to stay in business. Plenty of businesses with good business strategies and practices manage to go out of business. In our world, the best at doing actual business are not always the ones that survive, and the worst don't always perish.
Power Moves (Score:2)
I'll give you a power move, we never got rid of our fax machine.
Texting... (Score:2)
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You think that just because you have a "dumb" phone, that people aren't still trying to text you on that number? They ARE, and they are not getting any response, not knowing why. So you might as well just keep your smartphone and simply ignore your texts. The result will be EXACTLY the same.
Texting (proper SMS) works on a dumb phone. Your Nokia 3310 from 2002 will receive a text message just fine, as long as there's still a 2G network in range (e.g, most of Europe is fine)
And if you believe this (Score:2)
Use paper (Score:4, Funny)
Just have filing cabinets and paper records. Never should have moved away from that. If it worked for the Gestapo why can't it work for us?
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"If it worked for the Gestapo why can't it work for us?"
The Gestapo never had to worry about the discovery phase of a lawsuit.
One constant: (Score:3)
Dumb has always been the boss flex.
that red plastic stick with the cheesy crackers (Score:2)
What the hell (Score:2)
is a 'boss flex'?
A real fax machine ... (Score:4, Insightful)
... would have at least worked during the hospital's latest ransomware incident.
That would have been nice ...
Fax over ToIP (Score:2)
I have plenty of obsolete tech to bear... (Score:2)
Yeah Right (Score:2)
"They see these vintage tools as power moves, allowing them to continue to posture as an Alpha Male."
FTFY
What about old computers (Score:2)
Waiting for... (Score:2)
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You don't know data processing...
unless you have worked with an IBM 407 Accounting machine.
Not only bosses (Score:2)
Personally, I'd be willing to use a 5G dumbphone from a respectable vendor too.
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Before someone castigates me for mentioning 5G, it's only to ensure that the phone will be able to serve me for many years, immune from carriers sunsetting their older networks.
We call these people GERMANS (Score:2)
As of recent estimates, about 40% to 50% of German companies still use fax machines for certain business processes. While this might seem surprising in an era dominated by digital communication, many German companies, especially in sectors like healthcare, legal services, and government, continue to rely on fax due to its perceived security, legal acceptance, and established infrastructure.
IT departments need to start saying "No" to faxes (Score:2)
If the edgy CEO wants to use a dumb phone, by all means let him. But IT departments need to start actively working to make faxing go away. It's antiquated insecure technology that is inferior in nearly every way compared to modern document transfer methods. Now that having true copper PSTN lines is a thing of the past, they're a pain to get working properly even if the VoIP "lines" are supposed to be T.38 compatible. Every argument for keeping faxes has been solved. "It's point to point!" Yes, but unen