Please create an account to participate in the Slashdot moderation system

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
HP Windows

PC Giants Predict Delayed but Massive Upgrade Wave (theregister.com) 120

Dell and HP executives have acknowledged a delay in the anticipated commercial PC refresh cycle. Michael Dell, speaking at the Citi 2024 Global TMT conference, stated that the refresh cycle "has been delayed for sure." The Register adds: Without offering any reasons for postponement -- and not being pressed for one by the analyst interviewing him -- the billionaire reckoned the size of the refresh is "going to be even bigger" because of it. "So first of all we have a certain date with Windows 10 end-of-life and we're almost within a one year window of that, and as you get in that one-year window, the enterprise IT people start screwing around and saying, 'Oh, we better do something about this'," said Dell.

Enrique Lores, CEO at rival PC maker HP, who spoke at the Goldman Sachs Communacopia + Technology conference this week, agreed enterprises are also about to invest in new lines. "First of all there is a large and aging installed base on PCs. Many of these PCs were bought during COVID and now we are four [or] five years after they were bought and they will have to be replaced. "We also see an opportunity driven by the Windows 11 refresh that is only starting now... this is what is behind some of the strength that we see on the commercial side. Microsoft⦠will start discontinuing their support for the previous versions, and this always ties the replacement and upgrade," he said, adding "this is going to be driving demand in the coming quarters."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

PC Giants Predict Delayed but Massive Upgrade Wave

Comments Filter:
  • by HBI ( 10338492 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @03:46PM (#64786171)

    That is NOT what this means. This means that people are questioning why they have to upgrade at all.

    The W10 EOL will be delayed as usual. It's a soft date always, and presupposes that most of the users are moved to the new OS. Every time.

    • by Calydor ( 739835 )

      It also doesn't mean Win10 stops working. It will boot just fine the next morning, and the morning after that, and the morning after that. The average user who plays a few games and browses the web won't notice the difference until one day, possibly years later, something actually breaks or they get pwned.

      • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

        What likely will drive a hardware upgrade wave is Windows 11 24H2 which requires at least a 7th gen Intel processor due to SSE 4.2 requirement.

        Meanwhile Intel has a lot of trouble with their 13th and 14th gen processors.

        This might primarily impact old high end stationary computers since laptops are usually replaced more frequently and trying to run Windows 11 on a 7th gen Core i5 is trying your patience. The 8th gen does it better, at least on the computers I have encountered where the number of cores doubl

        • What exactly tries ones patience about trying to run Windows 11 on a 7th Gen Core i5???

          I have three machines I've tested Windows 11 on to compare.

          1. Was a Framework 13 with an 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 Quad Core, with 16GB of RAM.
          2. Was an AMD Ryzen 7 5800H 8-Core / 16-Thread, with 32GB of RAM.
          3. Was a 2009 Dell Inspiron 530, with a Core 2 Duo E7500 2.9GHz Dual Core, 4GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, and a GeForce GT 240 (512MB VRAM). I damaged a DDR channel while reinserting my GPU after maintenance, the lock
          • I agree. I am currently running Win 10 on a 3rd Gen intel-i3 CPU with 8GB RAM. I switched from Win 7 to Win 10 and felt a slight performance degradation but nothing that bothers me to change my current laptop. I am not a gamer. I use my laptop for browsing, some occasional word processing (google docs) or picture editing (gimp). I have no plans to upgrade. I might switch back to Linux when Win 10 support ends.

          • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

            Nah, this is just CEO level types saying "our sales will be lame, just warning you all, and it's not our fault" that Windows 11 is near the end of its new-PC upgrade cycle.

            3 years in, normally the next major Windows version is poised to be released, corporations defer PC purchases until months after the next OS is released to
            minimize risk, defer costs, get the full 3 year depreciation tax write off from desktop and laptop computers, ....

          • by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

            To hand out as a loaner computer at work if someone forgot their ordinary computer at home.

      • by Dwedit ( 232252 )

        Microsoft in the past has done date-based expiration of their operating systems. Granted, you needed to be running an Insider build for this to happen, but "outdated" insider builds are specifically designed to automatically BSOD after 4 hours of use.
        Sucks if you were sticking with a particular build because the newer builds were too buggy.

    • Anyone on a corporate support contract for a fleet of desktops and laptops may be singing a different tune when the vendor announces an end to the support window.

      • by HBI ( 10338492 )

        Maybe, maybe not. There was a reason a lot were able to avoid Windows 8 almost entirely.

      • Anyone who is doing fleet IT, especially for laptops, is more likely to upgrade in response to support windows and warranty durations; and might even pay attention to things like firmware going EOL and not getting security updates; but I'd be a bit more surprised if they are going to be as driven by Win11.

        11's specific combination of TPM enthusiasm and relatively aggressive deprecation of older gen CPUs, even ones that are pretty damn fast in absolute terms, is a real slap in the face for a lot of consum
        • Anyone who is doing fleet IT, especially for laptops, is more likely to upgrade in response to support windows and warranty durations; and might even pay attention to things like firmware going EOL and not getting security updates; but I'd be a bit more surprised if they are going to be as driven by Win11.

          The Windows guys on our IT team are in the middle of replacing just about every (non-Mac-using) staff member's computer - specifically because the hardware they currently have doesn't support Windows 11. But admittedly we are a university department, so we probably space our hardware purchases further apart than the typical business does.

          • I work for a software company (maker of a popular computing language used in large Universities worldwide) that requires some decent hardware to work on. And my workstation ran just fine for me for close to 8 years. The replacement happened a few months ago and it was a VMWare in the cloud workstation. And in terms of performance, this "in the cloud workstation" sucks more than my 8-year-old physical workstation. So, it's no longer the case that we have to replace our desktops once in 3 years as it used to

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      Well, COVID caused a massive demand of PCs over 2020 and 2021. So much so that PC manufacturers were reporting massive profits during this and 2022.

      But we need to remember prior to COVID, the numbers were down - people were not upgrading at all. PC shipments kept going lower and lower and only when the pandemic hit did they suddenly start growing.

      And now we're coasting again - COVID triggers a need for new computers, mostly laptops so work from home could be done.

      I don't think the upgrade wave is going to h

      • I built a new computer last year but that was almost entirely because a game I actually wanted to play came out that my 10 year old system wasn't going to run. BG3. Glad I upgraded but still haven't finished that game a year later.

        My 10 year old system was completely upgraded and I couldn't install anymore ram or a new video card to get anymore performance out of it. My current system I expect will likely last another 10 years unless some amazing killer app comes out that I MUST have. Seems rather unlikely.

      • by HBI ( 10338492 )

        My mind is thinking similarly to yours.

    • I am currently running an Intel 12900KF and an RTX 4090 and dual booting Windows 10 for gaming, and Ubuntu 22.04 for everything else. I am not downgrading to the steaming pile of shit that is Windows 11, and the Intel 13th and 14th generation CPUs are junk. There is nothing compelling on the market right now or in the near future that has me wanting to upgrade anything.

      This just smacks of PC manufacturers making public predictions in order to prop up stock prices and appease shareholders.

  • Why this narrative?

    I thought data center upgrade was driving huge growths.

    • Now its AI in workstations too.
    • I'm not sure what the OEM margins look like on the "AI" stuff. Nvidia have the entire market, and don't exclusively sell their parts via their own "DGX" systems; but if you are dealing with them they call a lot of the shots. The board with the SXM sockets and NVswitch is from them, same part in every OEM's implementation; the very, very, strongly recommended networking parts("bluefield" DPUs on ethernet; Nvidia's Mellanox-derived parts on Infiniband) are all Nvidia. You are in a similar position with their
  • when microsoft windows gets so awful that people quit using it and Linux gains enough marketshare that it finally happens, Linux Desktop saturation worldwide,
    • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:09PM (#64786231)

      where is adobe creative cloud for Linux? games that don't have anti cheat that flags Linux play?

      • If you're addicted to games with anti-cheat flags, obviously you'll avoid Linux. But the incredible success of the Steam Deck has also shown that there's a real market for *lots* of other games, which *do* run on Linux.

        • by Rinnon ( 1474161 )
          The reason I am in a position to select my own OS in the first place is because I'm building my own PC, which I only do because I am going to use it to play games. If I didn't intend to play games, I wouldn't need to build a PC, and therefore would most likely just accept whatever OS was on the laptop that I bought / was given to me by my workplace. In selecting my OS (a non-selection, because) I am not going to pick one that limits the games that are available to me, as that defeats the whole purpose of th
          • With Proton (Steam Play on Linux), game compatibility has come a long way. I run into more hardware compatibility issues with the Steam Deck than Proton compatibility issues. Regarding performance, Microsoft has recently been in the news for not providing exemptions, from Spectre/Meltdown Speculative Execution and Branch Prediction mitigations, on AMD machines for accounts other than the default local admin (new CPUs are supposed to be secure). The default local admin carries the additional labor of locatin
          • by wiggles ( 30088 )

            I ran an experiment with my last build. I dual boot. For what I need Windows for, I use windows. I use Linux for everything by default, and reboot to Windows once in a while when I need something that only windows can do.

            The final applications I need windows for are TurboTax and my scanner's Windows only software. Everything else works on Linux, even and especially all my games.

            I find that if a game won't work in Linux, i just don't play it. There are a lot of good time sinks that do work in Linux. So

    • by dnaumov ( 453672 )

      when microsoft windows gets so awful that people quit using it and Linux gains enough marketshare that it finally happens, Linux Desktop saturation worldwide,

      Imagine being so out of touch with the real world you hold a genuine belief this will happen at some point

      • i am sure the Roman Empire thought it would never fall but one day it did, same with Napoleon or the Nazis, one day microsoft window wont p0wn the dektop market share anymore
        • by Rinnon ( 1474161 )

          i am sure the Roman Empire thought it would never fall but one day it did,

          That's true! Microsoft has been on top for like 30 years now, so at this rate we can expect the year of Linux in... (checks Wikipedia) about 970 years!

          • Microsoft has been on top for like 30 years now, so at this rate we can expect the year of Linux in... (checks Wikipedia) about 970 years!

            Windows and the Thousand Year Retch!

      • For a long time I would have agreed with you, because Linux adoption was flat.

        But in recent years it's actually shown notable growth (we're talking like 2% to 3% ... but that's still a lot of computers). I think it's well within the bounds of reality to think that it could continue to grow, especially given how little innovation/need there is for new OSes.

    • I am agnostic. I stopped using any Microsoft products or services back in the Windows 7 days. Yes, I am not a gamer. I use my tech to make a living. But thinking Linux on the Desktop is going to take off is a bit of a stretch. It is all about marketing power and money and there is little marketing power and money behind Linux on the Desktop.
      I use Linux on the Desktop and no Microsoft products or services because I can. Not everyone is in my position.
  • The upgrading for upgrading's sake mentality might still prevail, but is there a real reason to upgrade to a faster, more powerful personal computer nowadays? You can only run Office or a web based office suite so fast, and most PC games are designed with consoles in mind which means gaming PCs don't require extreme power for most games.

    • by cirby ( 2599 )

      "I gotta have an AI-capable machine!"

      "Um... you're an accountant. You run three packages, none of which use AI."

      "But we MIGHT!"

      (sighs) "Fine, then. We'll get you something that can run AI." (orders Yet Another Basic RTX Computer)

    • Windows 11. It requires a TPM (trusted platform module). Windows 10 is getting EOL'd soon, so that means no security updates. It will quickly become untenable to run Windows 10, and thus any Wintel PC without TPM.

  • If you have no software that needs a faster PC, why would you upgrade? The execs talk like people are dying to update because their systems are too slow? No they aren't. The systems are fine as-is, all the software runs fine. Why upgrade?
    • by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:21PM (#64786265)
      It's not about that. This is about the primary customers of Dell etc - large businesses. They'll update computers every 3-5 years because older computers get more expensive to maintain than to replace if you're paying professionals to maintain them. Covid spawned a huge wave of buying which to some degree put everybody on the same refresh cycle, like the baby boom after WWII. Now the Covid computers are getting old.
      • After three years there has historically been a solid second hand resale market to recoup costs. This 3 year second hand market could be moving to 5 years across the board. With expectancy of 10-15 years of security updates from Microsoft for the Windows operating system we might even see 5-7 in the future.

        Although, with Apple moving to their highly integrated SoC, and with cryptographically paired motherboard and hard drives, the aftermarket repair situation looks uncertain regarding the upkeep and main
      • Bit of a snag with that—pandemic-era sales were driven by home purchases, not large businesses. You don't really need to do a lot of hardware upgrades when your employees are working from home on self-bought machines. Taking business laptops home I could understand, but probably not desktop PCs.

        • There was also a wave of computers replaced in late 2019/2020 due to Windows 7 going out of support.

      • by dargaud ( 518470 )
        The refresh cycle at the gov institution (10000+ employees) I work for was historically 3 years. It recently changed to 5 years. It's not like there's that much improvement between models in recent years.
    • My i7-6700K is humming along very nicely. When it does come time to "upgrade" it won't be to the latest and greatest, not when I can get a nice 3 to 4 year old off-lease system for pennies compared to new. Microsoft and hardware manufacturers have colluded to force unnecessary upgrades through imaginary hardware road blocks. Screw them, I'm not playing.

  • by Revek ( 133289 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:04PM (#64786213)
    Come on 11. come on lucky 11. The only problem is most people are doing just fine with the computer they have and see no reason to buy a new one so they can run a operating system they see no point in. An operating system that is demonstrably worse in many ways to 10.
    • We're talking corpo buyers. That's not how they work.

      • by Revek ( 133289 )
        I work for a public library now and we will upgrade to 11 when 10 finally goes EOL. I already block microsoft telemetry at the router as well as other spying eyes. Like phishing and other threat actors. Its how I treat microsoft. As a threat to our patrons privacy.
    • But...but...your new computer will have AI* baked in to "assist you" with....stuff.

      *not actually artificial intelligence of course, basically just a sentence completion engine....with a hefty data gathering and reporting capability underneath

  • by Narcocide ( 102829 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:08PM (#64786227) Homepage

    ... a massive wave of people switching to Linux when they can no longer keep using Windows 10.

    • Linux is not ready for modern desktop usage. Linux desktop development is too fragmented. Sadly.
      • Fragmented, yes, but too fragmented? On the contrary, I assert that it is just fragmented enough. Overspecialization breeds in weakness. Didn't you watch Ghost in the Shell?

      • People keep saying that about desktop Linux. I am fairly sure they don't actually believe it.
    • by Z80a ( 971949 )

      Sadly most people don't know what an OS is.
      There is a large percentage of the population that don't even know what folders are.

      • by Rinnon ( 1474161 )

        Sadly most people don't know what an OS is. There is a large percentage of the population that don't even know what folders are.

        I'm not sure I'd call it sad... there's no reason for most people to know the details of how their computer works any more than they need to know the details of how their car works. They hire a professional to fix it when something is wrong so they can focus their time and effort on using the tool they purchased to accomplish the task they purchased it to do.

        If a person can't use Linux without knowing what an OS is, Linux will never catch on.

        • Part of it is that many people got used to an entire ecosystem which comprised of a hardware and software stack. For example, an Android phone is assumed to have Android on it, and usually Google. In this environment, people don't often know, and really don't care what filesystem or directory their files are stored.

          Going to a desktop, it is completely different, and people brought from the Chromebook, iOS, iPadOS, and Android world find that having a different operating system on the same hardware a new c

        • by Z80a ( 971949 )

          If you don't know what wheels are, you won't be able to ask for better ones.

    • Re:I predict... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sarren1901 ( 5415506 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @05:53PM (#64786487)

      I love Linux and it's my only OS at home. What you describe still isn't going to happen unless people can walk into Best Buy and buy a Linux based computer and even then, as soon as you tell them it won't run certain applications, that shuts that down flat.

      All the applications and games I want to use do run on Linux, so I'm happy. Lot's of applications for various things don't run on Linux period and are a non-starter. It's not that they couldn't run on Linux but we definitely have a chicken and egg problem going on.

      I do think if all you did is browse the web and check email, that ANY modern day OS would be fine for you. Especially if you are a typical user that wouldn't be installing software or upgrading hardware, which is 99% of most people anyway. This is easier now since so much runs in the web browser as a webapp.

      I'm kind of glad too. I don't want every day people on Linux. Then distro people will start catering to the masses and I'll have to move to BSD. Anything geared towards the masses becomes shitty.

      • Then distro people will start catering to the masses...

        They've already been trying to do that for years. They just manage to fail at it.

        • Let's be honest about where the failure comes from. It's not that Best Buy isn't putting enough effort into it. It's that Linux is an OS that is designed by nerds, for nerds. It's not even close to being usable by non-technical people. When your typical low-tech person buys a Windows or Mac desktop, they can start using it in a matter of minutes. They can print to their printer (*any* printer) or scan from their scanner typically without installing any additional software. Most devices, such as cameras (sti

    • Absolutely! That should be enough to push Linux desktop adoption to at least 4.7%!

  • waves are getting longer and some cpu blocks are needed like need AVX. Others like some of the windows 11 cpu blocks are just to push sales.

    • Pretty sure the average CPU sold by Dell or HP back in 2019 supported AVX.

      • I pulled my 2009 Core 2 Duo E7500 2.9GHz, 4GB DDR2, GeForce GT 240 (512MB VRAM), 1TB HDD, with Windows Vista out of storage and fired it up. I'm wondering whether UEFI SSL Cert Revocation lists are worth the hassle. Then there was that CrowdStrike fiasco, and Microsoft had a BSOD issue with BitLocker which required a patch. I run Windows Vista without BitLocker, as I don't want to inadvertently ransomware my personal data. I'm more likely to have my hard drive fail, than have it be stolen. The main thing I
  • I guess someone needs a break for a cycle.
  • How about PC makers give us some reasons to upgrade. No, I'm not talking "AI", which, IMHO, is mainly going to be used for ad agencies to process data going on the machine to glean out the critical bits to send up and sell off, but actual things users want and need.

    One of those that would be nice is using NVMe controllers the way they should. This way, I can put in four NVMe SSDs, have it appear to the OS as one volume, and choose between no RAID (JBOD), RAID 1, RAID 0, RAID 5, or just one big volume wher

    • You are not the target of sales efforts focused on major upgrade cycles. Corporate buyers are.

      • Enterprise stuff can also be helped, and PC companies can do a lot more in this department than at home. A few examples of that:

        Having a recovery ROM that is signed. This way, a PC can be kicked, completely erased and reinstalled via AutoPilot. Not the way it is done now, but allowing for a complete, secure erase of the SSD or SSDs before the OS is reloaded.

        Have the functionality of Absolute on the BIOS level. Not vPro, but some cloud-brokered service, perhaps in combination with a low bandwidth cellula

    • That would do it for us nerds but go get any random person off the street/in the mall to read your post and most won't have a clue what any of that is or even means.

      You could also probably get that if you bought a proper server grade hardware as well. It won't be cheap.

  • by ebunga ( 95613 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:37PM (#64786295)

    That's what they're actually saying.

  • Oct 2025 is only the first phase.
    But Rememeber that Windows 10 (22H2+++) also has an ESU, and that there are other versions of Win10 desktop... sooooo

    2026 will see EOL for Win10 LTSC 2021 AND corpos who only want 1 year of ESU.
    2027 and 2028 Will see other corpos drop of the ESU badwagon.
    2029~2030 Will mark the end of support of Win10 LTSC 2019
    And finally 2031 will mark the end of Win10 IoT 2021.

    So, no "massive wave of upgrades" as TFS says, but rather many smallish waves.

    And no, AI will not drive adoption o

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @04:47PM (#64786319)

    Without offering any reasons for postponement -- and not being pressed for one by the analyst interviewing him ...

    Because everyone's current PCs are running Windows 10 just fine and new (good) hardware can be expensive. and it can be a hassle to migrate to a new system, and the only "reason" to upgrade is because Windows 11 has new, stricter, and in my opinion unnecessary/arbitrary, hardware requirements (to run it in an officially supported fashion anyway) that will require new(er) hardware purchases.

    Personally, I'm running Windows 10 just fine on a Dell XPS 420 that a friend gave me in 2017 when it still had Windows 7 on it -- don't know when he got it, but the XPS 420 was first released in 2007. When Windows 10 hits EOL, I'll switch to using my Linux Mint 21 system full-time -- a DIY system using an ASRock Z77 Extreme3 motherboard a friend gave me with a Intel Core i7-3770 CPU and 32 GB RAM, or the Dell PowerEdge T110 with an Intel Xeon X3470 and 32GB RAM that's in my closet -- neither of which can officially run Windows 11. (I have add-on SATA-3 cards for the OS SSD.)

    I'd switch to using Linux full-time now, but I'm lazy.

    • I think more and more people will wind up being nudged to Linux. The concern about Windows Recall combined with it gladly storing that data on the cloud, the UI/UX changes which nobody likes, constant new stuff, just makes people want to move somewhere else. I'm seeing a lot of new Mac users, and I'm seeing more interest in Linux, especially now that games are actually being made for that platform.

      Overall, having three operating systems as desktop competitors is a good thing.

      • Change the word people to nerds and your post is correct. The rest of society won't even care about how bad of an idea Windows Recall is, let alone even knowing what an operating system even is.

        You probably see more Mac users before Linux users but mostly, people just tolerate the Windows thing because they just see it as an appliance anyway.

        The biggest advancement for Linux in the past decade has been more and more stuff moving to running in a web browser that doesn't care about the OS. For gamers, Steam o

    • Nah. It's more likely that corpos are hesitant to lay out too much cash right now, especially considering how large is the hardware base that's slated for replacement.

  • by az-saguaro ( 1231754 ) on Friday September 13, 2024 @05:37PM (#64786441)

    I do not work in IT or corporate, so please help me understand.

    If a company has 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 pc's running relatively smoothly, business is getting done, the line of business and work being done is stable and predictable, the systems are secure, the tool chain that runs the enterprise is working, no technology upgrades are needed, and current machines are easily maintained - then why does a company need or want to upgrade?

    Right now, there are banks running old systems built on Cobol, airplanes flying with floppy diskettes, industrial systems running DOS and Win 3.1. If it ain't broke, don't fix it - and some companies obviously subscribe to that and presumably benefit from it.

    If there is a good reason to upgrade systems, so be it. But, if there is no good business case to upgrade hardware and software, what is the impetus?

    Does it come from c-suite executives who want shiny new toys or who are duped by MS or other hype? Is it from IT execs who don't see the big picture, just want their own new toys?

    Like myself, who is knowledgeable and experienced with computers, many respondents here on Slashdot have rigs which are 6-10 years old, or more, and doing their work and play just fine. So why does a company do a 100% hardware-software turnover at 4-5 years simply because a newer version of Windows is around the corner? Does MS have enough juju in their Kool-Aid to make corporations succumb to that sales pitch?

    My observation, perhaps wrong, is that companies who are truly tech-dependent, such as manufacturing, industry, utilities, airlines, banks, will keep whatever systems or tools are working well - no throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In contrast, companies or corporate divisions that provide services and that do "business" activities such as accounting, consulting, law, hospitals - services not really tech dependent or without a foundational need for hardware technologies other than a PC are the ones who upgrade a lot, because MS and hype said so.

    If these companies save their money not buying upgraded hardware and MS WIndows-Next, instead used that money for an extra IT guy or two, they could main their perfectly working rigs despite "end of life" FUD.

    Taking that a step further, why not just ditch Windows and run Linus or Linux-Wine?

    Am I missing something, or too naive?

    • I think it's because Windows is the fisher price OS and it's cheaper to hire less educated people to maintain these systems. This was how it was put to me by a professor that had decades of experience before taking part time easy work in college.

      I was arguing the same as you, but apparently you need smarter people to keep a Linux shop going then a Windows shop. That still seems baffling to me, but I'm also not in the industry either.

      Maybe someone who is will chip in here and set us straight.

      P.S. Most every

    • I think you're totally right in all your observations. I don't work in IT., but through interaction with the ITR guys in my place, my understanding is:

      if there is no good business case to upgrade hardware and software, what is the impetus? [...] Is it from IT execs who don't see the big picture, just want their own new toys?

      1) After 2-3 years, the corporates laptops are in very bad shape, people don't take good care of them, complain they're becoming slow. Employees want the new toys; everybody's happy when the new batch of laptops arrives, and can register to get one.
      2) It wants "security", in a double sense: "IT security" and "job security". The contract with their supplier sa

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Local ID10T ( 790134 )

      If a company has 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 pc's running relatively smoothly, business is getting done, the line of business and work being done is stable and predictable, the systems are secure, the tool chain that runs the enterprise is working, no technology upgrades are needed, and current machines are easily maintained - then why does a company need or want to upgrade?

      Predictability and cost management.

      Downtime is expensive. Computers are cheap. It is less expensive to replace computers on a rolling schedule and keep everyone on a computer that is only a couple years old and still under service contract than to risk losing days of work-time for an employee. You can budget for replacing 1/4 of your computer systems each year and, with a corporate service contract, if one does fail unexpectedly the vendor ships a replacement overnight.

      It also makes it easier to manage s

      • Thanks.

        That's a good answer, insightful.

        I guess you can liken it to the automobile rental industry. They buy new cars, keep them in service for maybe two years when they are less likely or warranted not to have problems, then sell them to fleets or the public before they need to assume repair and depreciation costs.

        Still seems wasteful though. Does it make a difference if the company is highly profitable and flush with cash versus one which is just getting by and without a capital budget?

        • "Still seems wasteful though. Does it make a difference if the company is highly profitable and flush with cash versus one which is just getting by and without a capital budget?"

          It's only wasteful of commodity parts. They're relatively cheap compared to the labor you'd spend giving them individual attention, and when there are large quantities there's additional labor just identifying the part to work on. For a small number of million dollar machines it's the labor that's relatively cheap so it's worth the

    • Does it come from c-suite executives who want shiny new toys or who are duped by MS or other hype? Is it from IT execs who don't see the big picture, just want their own new toys?

      It is driven by Microsoft to get more toys for their executives. That is why older software becomes unsupported rather than evolved. To force the upgrade.

  • Most of what Intel can sell in significant volumes to corporate desktop/laptop buyers will be non-performance junk that they'll need to discount to maintain market share.

    • And what would i need performance for? most business use doesn't need it, waste of money. Sounds like gamer talk.

      • Corporate drones are always in need of better Electron bloat performance. Zen5 is outstanding for that sort of workload, and apparently it was a major design target for Intel's Royal Core project.

        Plus perf/watt and battery life are a thing.

        • battery life isn't at the performance end of the spectrum.

          Corporate drones do spreadsheets, emails, powerpoints, documents, and corporate ERP/MRP apps via browser.

          None of which needs performance at all. Nothing more RAM and solid state disk in older machines can't fix.

          • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

            To be fair, more complex operations in huge spreadsheets are somewhat CPU intensive.

            But corporate people working those are used to ctrl-v taking a few seconds while with certain operations.

            • I'm telling you, IT departments are chasing better performance for their in house crapware and other junk like Office 365.

          • Battery life absolutely is at the performance end of the spectrum. The best perf/watt along with the lowest parasitic platform losses gets you the best battery life.

  • Action:
    Apple going to ARM and not having longer term support for Macintel-Machines

    Consequence:
    Cheap, great quality ,high performance hardware with excelent Displays etc.. for a bargain (Windows 10 also on the brink, Windows 11) only Linux remains

    Action:
    MS going for DRM+360 / "better performance CPUs" for Windows 11 with Windows 10 on the brink

    Consequence:
    Cheap, great quality ,high performance hardware

    This is why we currently have a wave of planned obsolescence hardware.

  • You mean the AI button didn't sell a trillion machines?!!??!
  • I'd really like to upgrade my laptop. I've reviewed at least a dozen laptops now, and found them all unacceptable. The usual problem is inadequate cooling. The few that had an acceptable cooling architecture had clear design failures that would make it impractical to repair common laptop problems like a broken keyboard.

The 11 is for people with the pride of a 10 and the pocketbook of an 8. -- R.B. Greenberg [referring to PDPs?]

Working...