Mazda's $10 Subscription For Remote Start Sparks Backlash After Killing Open Source Option (carscoops.com) 102
An anonymous reader shares a report: Mazda recently surprised customers by requiring them to sign up for a subscription in order to keep certain services. Now, notable right-to-repair advocate Louis Rossmann is calling out the brand. He points to several moves by Mazda as reasons for his anger toward them. However, it turns out that customers might still have a workaround. Previously, the Japanese carmaker offered connected services, that included several features such as remote start, without the need for a subscription. At the time, the company informed customers that these services would eventually transition to a paid model.
It's important to clarify that there are two very different types of remote start we're talking about here. The first type is the one many people are familiar with where you use the key fob to start the vehicle. The second method involves using another device like a smartphone to start the car. In the latter, connected services do the heavy lifting. What is wild is that Mazda used to offer the first option on the fob. Now, it only offers the second kind, where one starts the car via phone through its connected services for a $10 monthly subscription, which comes to $120 a year. Rossmann points out that one individual, Brandon Rorthweiler, developed a workaround in 2023 to enable remote start without Mazda's subscription fees.
It's important to clarify that there are two very different types of remote start we're talking about here. The first type is the one many people are familiar with where you use the key fob to start the vehicle. The second method involves using another device like a smartphone to start the car. In the latter, connected services do the heavy lifting. What is wild is that Mazda used to offer the first option on the fob. Now, it only offers the second kind, where one starts the car via phone through its connected services for a $10 monthly subscription, which comes to $120 a year. Rossmann points out that one individual, Brandon Rorthweiler, developed a workaround in 2023 to enable remote start without Mazda's subscription fees.
Suck it (Score:5, Interesting)
I will never "pay" for a "service" to use something that I already own. If the device requires a company server to operate they can suck it. This kind of crap will continue to happen people unless you flat out say "NO" to this bullshit.
Re:Suck it (Score:4, Interesting)
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This is the biggest problem. They are adding so much stuff that people never asked for. Cars aren't affordable because they just keep on adding on features. Some of it is is mandated for "safety" or for "efficiency" like mandatory backup cameras or tire pressure sensors.
But people can use their mirrors or turn their head. They can check their tire pressure with a $20 gauge. There's no need to complicate cars so much and make them inaccessible to regular people. Unless this is all the end goal to make it so
Re:Suck it (Score:4)
This is the biggest problem. They are adding so much stuff that people never asked for. Cars aren't affordable because they just keep on adding on features. Some of it is is mandated for "safety" or for "efficiency" like mandatory backup cameras or tire pressure sensors.
But people can use their mirrors or turn their head. They can check their tire pressure with a $20 gauge. There's no need to complicate cars so much and make them inaccessible to regular people. Unless this is all the end goal to make it so nobody can afford a car to reduce overall ownership and cut down on pollution.
Cut down on pollution? You obviously don't study the patterns of modern business. The real dream of the car companies is that they can forever charge you as much as you can afford to pay for the privilege of *NOT* owning the car. And I'm not talking about the current lease model of today, where you get *A* vehicle, pay an agreed price over a certain term, then have the option to purchase. No, the daydream of the auto-execs is they produce cars, most likely self-driving, at a substantially reduced rate compared to today, yet rake in way more profits due to the "everyone is paying the equivalent of an auto-loan, forever," payment plans they hope people will just accept to get out of owning these massive money-sinks.
"You'll own nothing and like it," isn't just a pipe dream. It's a fully-envisioned plan and it's coming for us from every direction.
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Nah. Engines are obsolete now, with all their complications.
Electrics rarely break.
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The real dream of the car companies is that they can forever charge you as much as you can afford to pay for the privilege of *NOT* owning the car.
Eventually, the car companies, phone companies, and utility companies will fight wars against each other over your wallet. They deserve the right to monopolize your money more than the other company does. Your choice doesn't matter in this.
Re:Suck it (Score:5, Insightful)
While you have a point about the ability for an attentive driver to do most of this stuff themselves, I must point out that my backup camera has a better field of view than anything I can do with my head or mirrors without getting out of the car, just because of its location.
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Your vehicle must be too big. I can see just fine out of my Subaru Outback, 360 degrees. Pretty handy when I'm heading out to go mining and need to see if I'm gonna drop into a pit or not.
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Subaru Forester. Camera still sees past the vehicle next to me a lot sooner than I do.
Re: Suck it (Score:2)
Re: Suck it (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing is that the screen is getting much cheaper then the previous tech of a lot of buttons, lights, wires, and dials.
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>> But people can use their mirrors or turn their head. They can check their tire pressure...
Problem is they don't.
The USA has a driver education problem.
In Europe you get proper driver education. You learn to actually do those things from a proper drive instructor, not the bad habits of your parents.
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So why did the EU implement the exact same mandates for backup cameras, TPMS, etc.?
EU introduces technology requirements for new vehicles from 2022 [echomaster-eu.com]
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Re:Suck it (Score:4, Interesting)
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Get a Tesla.
Yeah, there is a subscription, but it is for the sim card in the car, and you really don't need it.
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What happens if you don't pay or remove the SIM card? Will the car still run?
I really don't want my car communicating with the mothership....or any other external entity.
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>> What happens if you don't pay or remove the SIM card? Will the car still run?
Up to now, all those modern cars continue to run, if you remove the SIM.
Maybe even the E-call continues to work, as emergency calls could be done sim-less on any phone, and this function is mandatory in many countries.
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Ford had the "best" option 10 years free for the original owner.
There HAS to be a limit on services like this. Otherwise 70 years from now someone will have an antique Ford Bronco Sport and try to sue Ford because Ford Connect no longer works or something.
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The way things are going you won't be able to use the entertainment system, get the car serviced by a third party, or even unlock the doors without some subscri
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Android Auto support is essential. Won't buy a car without it. As long as it has that you can be sure it will be "supported" long term, as in you will always be able to connect something up to date to it without a subscription.
Otherwise only buy hackable cars. Polestars can be upgraded from the base model to the top spec for free thanks to a nice fix someone found. Check your local laws though - here your warranty is safe unless they can prove that your upgrade caused the specific issue you are claiming for
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"Android Auto support is essential. Won't buy a car without it. As long as it has that you can be sure it will be "supported" long term, as in you will always be able to connect something up to date to it without a subscription."
Or you can be a regular person and just connect via bluetooth and not have some system that nags you and gets in your way while you try to accomplish basic fucking tasks.
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Bluetooth is only for audio, it doesn't do visual navigation or get telemetry like state-of-charge and physical button inputs.
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Never ever by a brand new car and make sure the dealer knows why. State it is all the Internet crap no one really needs. After just 3 or 4 months of no sales, you can bet they will change their ways.
No. They will not change their ways. They will never hear the "why" of your decision. Do you think the manager of the salesperson that you spoke to will EVER hear what you complained about? They might... but their boss will dismiss it as a minor issue affecting a small amount of people and never report it upwards.
Even if the company owners did hear of your "whys and wherefores", they don't care. They want the money that subscriptions could bring in because SOME people will always just buy the car because th
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I agree when it comes to installed hardware that cannot be used without paying more. That hardware costs money to be there so everyone's covering that cost one way or another. All the sub does is shift around what proportion everyone pays. See: BWM/Tesla heated seats.
But if it's just for a service I think it's more justifiable, since servers do cost money to run. Remote start and locks just scrape by into this category because the hardware obviously can be used without the service, just not remotely. Not of
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There's no reason a remote start with the fob (ie within range of the fob) shouldn't work, and should not require any subscription.
For a remote start option over a longer range you're going to need some kind of cellular connectivity - but that is a separate subscription (to a telco) rather than the car manufacturer.
A car is pretty useless without a number of things - fuel, driving license, insurance, roads etc - but the manufacturer does not lock you in here, you can use fuel from any supplier you want etc,
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Hey...best of luck to you, ya'll are in my and most other folks here's thoughts in Louisiana.
I know what you're going through...went through Katrina in New Orleans.
It sucks, but you'll all get through this. A lot of us here are se
Paying for a non-feature? (Score:2)
How is remote start a feature that anyone would pay money for?
Re:Paying for a non-feature? (Score:4, Informative)
How is remote start a feature that anyone would pay money for?
If you live somewhere prone to experiencing temperature extremes, it is very nice to enter a car with the climate control already running. Heck, here in Florida I sometimes even leave the AC running on my Chevy Bolt just so I don't return to a steaming hot cup of Coke Zero by the time I return from a quick errand.
I wouldn't pay a subscription for the feature, though.
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This goes double when you have an EV and you want the HVAC and battery preconditioning to run while you're still plugged in.
The range of my Bolt's keyfob is good enough that I rarely ever use the smartphone app. When Chevy starts asking me for a subscription fee, it'll be deleted, just as I did to the Toyota app when it wanted a connected services subscription fee.
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In South Carolina, it's illegal to leave an unoccupied vehicle running. Not sure how this would be affected by that.
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Clearly that law needs to amended. Consider EVs. They're always "running". The key fob and push-button start really just operates the motor interlock and puts the UI in a different state. It was actually already "on", just in a sort of a sleep mode. Plus, I've always thought laws like that are crazy and impractical. At least South Carolina is not a cold state. In a cold state, laws like that could end up being fatal, stranding people in remote locations with a car that won't start because it got too cold. S
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>> In a cold state, laws like that could end up being fatal,
Yeah no. What is illegal is to have the car ready to move so anyone(a child for example) could drive it.
It is not illegal to have the AC running(even with Engine ON).
All proper "remote start" systems forbid to drive, so are compliant. They either shutdown if the door is opened, or don't allow to put a gear in or similar.
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Ok. So it's the original poster's comment about the law that needs to be amended, not the law itself.
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https://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t56c005.php [scstatehouse.gov]
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/re [motorbiscuit.com]
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Ok. Thank you. The actual law in question is a very useful addition to the conversation. I agree that a lawyer would probably need to be consulted but a plain reading of the law along with the reasons you gave that it exists seem to strongly suggest to this lay person that it does need to be amended since the reasons for the law to exist are null and void with modern remote starters in EVs especially. Not to mention that the definition of motor vehicle it is using has a key and an engine. I wonder if a good
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Wouldn't work for me...ever since I was young, I've always left my car in gear while parked....
Re:Paying for a non-feature? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Which makes the fee perfectly reasonable. Better if there were an option to connect via WiFi and be free (accepting the obvious limitations).
Re:Paying for a non-feature? (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be reasonable if they were not manipulating things to take away other options, like starting with the key fob. I despise this trend of completely unnecessarily using a remote server to handle everything. I should note that modern phones have all kinds of functionality. It should be possible to get them to communicate with a car without going through a remote server (obviously with some range restrictions), but no one bothers and not just because they don't want to take on the technical challenges, but precisely because they want to create a walled garden they can monetize. It also, for example, should be possible for you to configure the car to use an alternate server of your choice as well as to set your own keys and not have them controlled by the car company, but nope. It's all to keep you trapped in a walled garden where you have to pay rent and it's high time the law started making this sort of thing illegal.
Of course, when you try to argue this with people they say things like: "It's their car". Except that it's not. It's _my_ car. I bought it, I should get to own it.
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Not if you're tied to a specific service...
If you are free to get a simcard from any cellular provider and use it, then sure that's reasonable.
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Basically, you're paying for the cell connection supporting the functionality.
All of those features could be provided without a cell connection. There is no excuse for this craven grab for money.
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If you live in very cold or very hot climate and don't have a garage, it can be very nice luxury. I'd pay a reasonable amount to have it in my car. Once.
Having it cellular-based is a nice gimmick, but not $10 a month nice IMO. I'm lucky to own a low mileage 8 or 9yo car that has no cellular connectivity, no on-demand anything, no as-a-service options. It does have USB audio, bluetooth, and pandora controls built in. Quirky at times but TBH my phone is 100x more capable than any in-dash infotainment sys
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I'd pay a reasonable amount to have it in my car. Once.
The article says that is still an option.
Having it cellular-based is a nice gimmick, but not $10 a month nice IMO.
I don't necessarily disagree, based on my own needs. However, based on pricing for a remote starter it isn't necessarily a no-go. Taking a look at Best Buy, a remote starter would cost about 3-7 years worth of this subscription. People that lease, or usually upgrade in the 5-10 year range, are potentially better off with the subscription. Then, there are the other minor added benefits of the subscription.
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If I lived in an area such as Minnesota and had to park outside, it may be one of those worthwhile quality of life upgrades. The car has to warm up a few minutes anyway if it's been frosted over, may as well let it happen while in the warmth of the house than shivering at the steering wheel for a few minutes.
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LOL, I had to stop right there....
I think my first step would be to move the fuck away from anywhere that has -40 even occasionally, much less a regular event.
Too many better climate areas to choose from IMHO.
Golden screwdriver back with a vengance (Score:4)
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i can see them trying, for sure. How successful this will be I have to wonder.
If it becomes truly commonplace then I expect to see jailbreaking firestick type hacks becoming equally common. If you want me to pay to send nonsense telemetry and use already-installed features ... i'll find a way around that including cutting the antenna wire.
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"Customer damage to the vehicle, all warranty void" is a universal solution to this from manufacturer's side. Very few people will be willing to lose warranty on tens of thousands of Euros of investment by doing stuff that may also break something the car permanently on top of it just to get rid of an annoyance.
This will need to be legislated unfortunately, unless competition deals with it. And considering the amount of legislation that already mandates a lot of annoyances like TPMS and speed limit warning
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Well, warranties aren't perpetual...and don't generally last "that" long....
So, maybe you're stuck till end of warranty, then have fun....
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For a lot of people, that's how it goes. But a lot of manufacturers are offering 7-10 year limited warranties now. Toyota for example offers a 10 years limited warranty (Toyota Relax program) provided I stick to the maintenance regime they recommend, and do it at their licensed repair shops only.
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Good luck getting admitted as an immigrant to a free country with all the "$country is full" and "stop the fentanyl" rhetoric going around lately.
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I live in the single most free country on the planet:
https://freedomhouse.org/count... [freedomhouse.org]
Remote start via app (Score:5, Interesting)
With or without a subscription fee, having to use an app to access your car's features is annoying. When my partner and I test drove a Tesla, we discovered the key fob costs extra and can't be used to remote start the car. You have to use the smartphone app. Gee, I wonder were Mazda got the idea?
The Bolt EUV we ended up getting, that came with two included keyfobs with - you guessed it - remote start.
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You're being a bit pedantic since it's obvious I'm referring to remotely powering up the HVAC system.
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>> You have to use the smartphone app. Gee, I wonder were Mazda got the idea?
The difference is with the Tesla, no need to pay to use the App, with 90% of the features working.
If you want to see live videos, you'll have to pay the subscription for data, yes.
>> When my partner and I test drove a Tesla, we discovered the key fob costs extra
Yep. you can get fobs, but nearly nobody uses them. Most use the app, with keycard backup
The big advantage of the keycards is that their replacement cost is very
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Tesla do not charge to use the phone app to start up the HVAC.
They charge for the enhanced data service that lets you stream audio and navigation data while driving using the in-built cellular radio in the car. This is reasonable since it covers payment for the cellular services for the car.
If you have a phone with data you can put into tethering mode, the car will happily use that as a wifi AP and stream audio and nav data without the need for a subscription.
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Tesla doesn't have Android Auto, so you either buy a phone holder or pay to use their services.
Don't ever buy cars that don't support Android auto.
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Can you not just plug your phone into your car's USB or bluetooth connect it...and play your music that way...?
It shouldn't require Android play or the Apple car play apps for things like that...?
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You can use Bluetooth or USB for audio, but you need Android Auto to display your phone's screen on the car's screen.
It's desirable because the car's screen is a lot more stable, and larger, than your phone in a holder. It can also integrate with your car's physical controls, e.g. some have a button that triggers your voice assistant, use the car's GPS antenna, and see some data about the car like state-of-charge/fuel remaining to assist with navigation.
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Hmm...never thought about wanting to display my phone on the cars display....interesting.
I just pretty much play music from my phone...
I listen to tunes and listen for my radar detector to chirp to let me know I need to check my speed...
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Tesla doesn't have Android Auto, so you either buy a phone holder or pay to use their services.
Don't ever buy cars that don't support Android auto.
Android auto is fine but so is the Tesla's built in UI with maps and music and car management stuff. I own a Tesla and I've been traveling and driving a rental car with Android auto for the past couple of weeks. Android auto is somewhat clunkier than the Tesla UI, but works good enough for mapping. The Tesla comes with it's own phone holder, so no need to buy a phone holder.
I don't need my phone to use my Tesla. I can use the provided card or the key fob (which I prefer). But the Tesla phone app provides ha
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The problem is lock-in. If Tesla decide to charge for something you want, you have to pay it. If the Tesla version of the app is crap, you are stuck with it. You can't just use Android Auto instead.
For example, in the UK they charge £10/month for "premium connectivity", which is required for live traffic information, and streaming audio. I wouldn't want to be locked into that when my phone already has it for free, and with my choice of app.
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>"premium connectivity", which is required for live traffic information, and streaming audio.
Wrong. Premium connectivity (which I do pay for in the US), is not needed if you can tether your phone's data service to wifi your car can connect to.
I do pay for premium connectivity because doing that is a bit of a faff. Cell service isn't free so I don't mind paying it. Tesla app is not crap. Tesla's UI is not crap.
FSD is crap though and I'm not forced to pay for it.
If Tesla pulled a BMW and started to charge
Subscriptions to... (Score:2)
...provide an ongoing service are fine
Subscriptions to use an already installed feature are fukkin' EVIL!
Any company that tries to feed me this crap will lose my business forever
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...provide an ongoing service are fine
Subscriptions to use an already installed feature are fukkin' EVIL!
Any company that tries to feed me this crap will lose my business forever
Yeah, like BMW and the heated seats. The hardware is already pre-installed at the software and the only cloud services needed are to...manage access to the the heated seats. That's what burns my biscuits.
Illegal in the UK? (Score:1)
Remote start is illegal in the UK: Rule 123 of the Highway Code states that “you MUST NOT leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road.” “Must not” implies a legal requirement. This law is in place is because people have been killed by cars starting to move when the engine is running and they are unattended. This has happened even when the gearbox is in neutral and with t
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How come starting the car without a human being present is legal in the US?
I'd venture a guess it's due to the popularity of automatic transmissions here in the USA. A car with its shifter in the park position isn't going anywhere. As someone hilariously put it on a short video I saw awhile back, we also have far wider temperature extremes in the USA than the UK experiences. In the southern parts of the US during summer, the interior of a car can reach over 58C while parked outdoors. On the other extreme, North Dakota averages 50 days a year below -17C.
The UK law also seems a
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A car in your driveway or private parking garage is not on a public road.
Most homes in the UK don't have off-street parking. Besides which, if your car did start to move while you weren't in it there's every chance that it would end up on a public highway.
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My Ford won't autostart unless it's locked, in Park, parking brake on, and all of the controls are locked out until the start button is pushed with the fob in the car. Ain't no way it's moving without a tow truck.
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The UK has quite a temperate climate, it does not get hot or cold enough that you'd really need to pre-start and condition the car.
The vast majority will hate this until... (Score:1)
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That's marketing B.S.
Don't fall for this kind of Horseshit.
Pay for merely breathing (Score:2)
We've reached the real purpose of the US DMCA, 1998: To put a lock (DRM) on every machine, that operates only when you pay a yearly fee. Putting a computer system in a car, means customers no longer own the car. Paying $120/year to unlock the doors and start the car, is ridiculous: Some cars don't have key-holes in the door-locks, so it is easy to blackmail customers over DRM hardware. That will continue until customers vote with their wallet: Since car manufacturers own each other, they can do as the
Don't piss me off (Score:2)
I am seriously considering picking up a CX-90 as my first electric vehicle, but a stunt like this puts that plan in doubt. Up till now I regarded Mazda as holding to some kind of moral higher ground, plus solid engineering, but now I fear the marketdroids and bean counters may have grabbed excessive influence in the CxO suite, which would not augur well for the long term. So, maybe bye bye. I'll see how they respond to the justified criticism.
Re: Don't piss me off (Score:2)
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>> Up till now I regarded Mazda as holding to some kind of moral higher ground, plus solid engineering
None of those.
Mazda's Engineering is a bit outdated. Morals : non-existant, like most corps.
I'll recommend get a Tesla instead. At least Engineering is good.
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Tesla? Never going to happen, not with Musk's politics. Besides they have earned a rep for substandard fit and finish.
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Sign of the Times - Need new Laws! (Score:1)
Years ago, Liftmaster MyQ smart garage door opener, removed open access. Home automation system like "Home Assistant" could no longer talk to it.
My car connects to my home WIFI and should speak "Matter", but it does not. Then John Deere got into the act.
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Yep. Chamberlain also dropped support for their MyQ HomeKit bridge. Once that stops working I know what my 30 years old openers will be replaced with...and it ain't from Chamberlain.
subscription to drive a mile coming soon (Score:2)
Framework cars (Score:2)
What we need is Framework type company to make cars. These cars would be easy to work on, easy to maintain, and gets you from point A to point B. All this without the junk that no one asked for.
Including RGB. But if you want RGB you can get it on your own.
$10 (Score:2)
I have a Mazda and didn't sign up for the original one that was free. I just don't need it and don't want to go down that road with my car.
But I'm not angry they're selling it, there is a service upkeep required. I'm more worried about potential resale of this date to an insurance carrier than a $10 fee.
so i drive to a remote beauty spot.. (Score:2)