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Has Online Shopping Left Warehouse Workers WIthout Political Power? (msn.com) 81

A writer for the New York Times editorial board argues we don't yet fully understand the impact of warehouses. "Thanks to the rise of online shopping and the proximity to so many American doorsteps, warehouses have become a major source of blue-collar employment," both in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and beyond. "In Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley, more than 19,000 people work in the warehouses that prepare our packages. Thousands more drive the trucks that deliver them."

But while the total number of warehouse-related jobs almost replaces the jobs lost from the closure of a major steel plant, "the political power that blue-collar workers once wielded has not been replaced." Despite their large numbers, their importance to the economy, and their presence in Northampton — a swing county in a crucial battleground state — warehouse workers don't form an influential voting bloc in the way that steelworkers did... It turns out that making stuff isn't the same as distributing it. Working in a steel mill is a communal act that lends itself to the pursuit of political power in a way that warehouse jobs do not. Steelworkers toiled alongside one another, forming lifelong bonds, bowling leagues and unions that delivered a reliable voting bloc. Back when thousands of workers streamed out of the gates of Bethlehem Steel at quitting time, "politicians would come out to shake our hands," Jerry Green, retired president of United Steelworkers Local 2599, told me.

Factories were so good at political mobilization, in fact, that some credit them for democracy itself. Women and working-class men won the right to vote in the United States, Western Europe and much of East Asia after about a quarter of those populations were employed in factories, according to recent research by Sam van Noort, a lecturer at Princeton. Warehouses, by contrast, have no such mystique. Nobody campaigns outside the Walmart distribution centers here. Workers tend to be hired by staffing agencies and many stay for only a few months. They work on their own and rarely socialize. They are notoriously difficult to organize. Alec MacGillis, author of "Fulfillment: America in the Shadow of Amazon," told me that the biggest challenge for labor organizers at Amazon warehouses was getting workers to stay on the job long enough to feel a sense of solidarity.

Malenie Tapia, who moved to Bethlehem from Queens, N.Y., five years ago and took a job as a "picker" in a Zara warehouse, explained why. For eight hours a day, she grabbed items off numbered shelves and delivered them to packers who packed them into boxes. Talking to co-workers was forbidden, she said, except during a brief lunch break. "Sometimes I would go to the section in the back, where there would be less eyes on you, and sneak in a little moment of conversation," she said.

Here's what happened when the reporter asked a pair of Latino workers about their political opinions: Most of all, they fretted about being replaced by machines. They spoke with dread about a fully automated McDonald's and a robot that unloads container ships. They didn't seem to see themselves as part of a working class that could band together to demand protections for their jobs.

The hot political issue around warehouses isn't the workers at all; it's the traffic and loss of green space associated with them. Both the Democratic and Republican candidates in the race for a state representative seat in Northampton have vowed to stop the proliferation of warehouses, which some citizens' groups say destroys their rural way of life. If warehouse workers had a political voice, they might push back. But they don't, so they won't. Warehouses have been an economic boon. But politically, for workers, they are a loss.

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Has Online Shopping Left Warehouse Workers WIthout Political Power?

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  • Democracy supposedly has its roots in classical Athens. Yeah, I know, Athens had direct democracy (not representative democracy), only men over 30 with military service could vote (no universal suffrage), and they had ostracism to try and counter abuse of power. Athens was never very stable under democracy, either - it always collapsed pretty quickly. You'd barely recognise it as the same political system as what we call democracy today.

    The political theory that emerged from industrialisation was Marxism

    • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

      only men over 30 with military service could vote (no universal suffrage)

      Only male citizens. It's an important distinction because most of the workforce were slaves. So in the context of the claim about working-class men winning the vote it's perfectly valid to discount classical Athens.

  • If they all decide at once to walk out, it would paralyze the parent company.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      If they all decide at once to walk out

      Did you miss the part where they are not allowed to talk to one another?

      • by drnb ( 2434720 )

        If they all decide at once to walk out

        Did you miss the part where they are not allowed to talk to one another?

        No you missed a contemporaneous comparison, comparing glory days of unions steel workers to warehouse workers. I worked in a warehouse in the 1980s, company parties, softball leagues, bowling leagues, plenty of informal hanging out with coworkers on your off hours, lots of friendships created at work, and plenty of talking at work too.

        • I am terribly sorry if this comes off as being a dick to you or other warehouse workers; but should you have political power as a warehouse worker? You accept an employer / employee arrangement for a set pay schedule, and some benefits that you both agree is a fair and equitable arrangement. If it wasn't, you would pass on the job, or the warehouse operator would pass on hiring you. Generally those rates are set by market forces, which is a good thing. It would be great for you if those market forces were m
          • by drnb ( 2434720 )

            I am terribly sorry if this comes off as being a dick to you or other warehouse workers; but should you have political power as a warehouse worker?

            My employer is not my only path to political power. Now consider that many consider that employer a short term temporary thing. A long term more persistent employer is a different story.

            You accept an employer / employee arrangement for a set pay schedule, and some benefits that you both agree is a fair and equitable arrangement.

            It was a fine school time job. Paid my share of rent, car. insurance, tuition, books, .... with some left over for entertainment. Then a couple of years into college I could get a different part-time and summers job related to my major that was much better and had the potential to turn into something long term post graduatio

            • I think it might have swung too far. IF there are homeless people, and a minimum wage by law, then the law is harmful. There are probably market forces that would make agreements below the minimum wage for people who aren't productive enough to justify a minimum wage who are otherwise as a result unemployed.

              A minimum wage is a price control on employment, so you will by definition generate a shortage. That is expressed as unemployment.
          • The political power of workers to band together is the only market force keeping workers' wages off the floor. "The floor" is getting paid sub-livable wages in scrip for the company store while living in the company town and becoming increasingly indebted to the company over time. These are the kinds of contracts that can result from negotiations between 1 worker and 1 corporation. Workers getting paid more will suck for employers and upper management (in the sense that they won't be so ridiculously rich) l

          • by whitroth ( 9367 )

            You're a fool.

            I worked for a Baby Bell in hte mid-nineties. Never mind that the only thing I ever managed were computers, I was in "management", salaried, and so the CEO could say "whatever it takes", and I was working 12, 14, 16 hour days for a while, and had *no* recourse. And STFU, I got a good increase after that year of rush... to just over $53k/yr. No, not vaguely all programmers make high six figures.

            No political power, no union, means whatever the boss wants. Oh, go get another job? New boss, same a

          • "Should you have political power as a warehouse worker?"--yes

            A corporation does not exist, or than as a legal concept. A marriage is the same except that we often, falsely use the term to describe the relationship between people rather, than what it actually is i.e. only a legal contract. A company has no real needs whatsoever e.g. food, shelter, health. People do. A large corporation is nothing but a vehicle for the wealthiest and most powerful to get more of both. If you have to make a comparison to a per

    • I wonder whether that is true. A company like amazon is so distributed that it probably would take a lot of warehouses to shut down at once before they are deeply impacted.

      • It basically means that if they organized, they would have a lot of power, but unorganized they have little power.
        • They have the power to enforce their arrangement so long as both parties want to continue it. It is illegal to short-pay employees. They also have the power to re-negotiate their arrangement if they are unhappy now with the terms they were previously happy to accept. If both parties reach an understanding, the work continues at the new rate. If not, the work stops, and the employer seeks a new employee, and the employee seeks a new employer. What more is needed? Just because you want your wages to go up, do
          • Just because you want your wages to go up, doesn't mean your employer should be obliged to pay you more, just because there are many of you. That seems like an abuse of democracy to me.

            That's not an abuse of democracy, that's more akin to democracy working correctly. We've seen the results of the alternative, ignoring the massive power imbalance between a worker who needs to work to avoid homelessness and starvation and an immortal corporation with full control over who gets paid what out of total revenue: 50 years of company leadership holding 90%+ of workers' wages stagnant while their productivity increases 40% on average, handing all those gains over to the top 5-9% of employees.

            • Just because you want your wages to go up, doesn't mean your employer should be obliged to pay you more, just because there are many of you. That seems like an abuse of democracy to me.

              That's not an abuse of democracy, that's more akin to democracy working correctly. We've seen the results of the alternative, ignoring the massive power imbalance between a worker who needs to work to avoid homelessness and starvation and an immortal corporation with full control over who gets paid what out of total revenue: 50 years of company leadership holding 90%+ of workers' wages stagnant while their productivity increases 40% on average, handing all those gains over to the top 5-9% of employees.

              I suppose that I did it wrong, When I was not being paid what I believed I was worth back in the day, I left for a better paying, or more pleasant job.

              This isn't to disparage Unions, it's just that I believe that inertia keeps people from realizing their actual potential.

          • Yeah. Companies can fire employees whenever they want. Employees can quit whenever they want. If employees want more fairness, they can start a union.

            You are complaining that starting a union gives employees power, and that is true, but it's not illegal.
            • Yeah. Companies can fire employees whenever they want. Employees can quit whenever they want.

              This seems perfectly fair. But then you say this:

              If employees want more fairness, they can start a union.

              That isnt "more fairness", that is an upper hand. Forcing an employer to hire you or else is akin to making someone work for you. In America, we call that slavery.

              • That isnt "more fairness", that is an upper hand.

                Maybe. But the employer has the upper hand in other ways, too.

  • No (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:45PM (#64898257)
    Lack of unions does. You need unions in order to organize voting blocks so that you can have political power. it's the old adage, divided we beg United we bargain.
    • Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)

      by mjwx ( 966435 ) on Monday October 28, 2024 @08:32AM (#64899545)

      Lack of unions does. You need unions in order to organize voting blocks so that you can have political power. it's the old adage, divided we beg United we bargain.

      This.

      It's not online shopping that has deprived workers of their collective bargaining rights, it's decade upon decade of political parties and media outlets demonising anyone who dares stand up for that right, convincing people that unions are baaaaad M'kay.

      The powerful have been stripping political power from workers. Now they're trying to shove the blame onto ordinary people (which, to be fair, anyone who's swallowed the "unions bad" line from Murdoch et al. is part of the problem and shares part of the blame).

  • by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:49PM (#64898263) Journal

    the political power that blue-collar workers once wielded has not been replaced

    It's been outsourced to China where the workers there have no rights of assembly or speech.

  • Luddites (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PetiePooo ( 606423 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:49PM (#64898265)

    Most of all, they fretted about being replaced by machines. They spoke with dread about a fully automated McDonald's and a robot that unloads container ships. They didn't seem to see themselves as part of a working class that could band together to demand protections for their jobs.

    And why should their jobs be protected if a robot can do it? I mean, sewing machines are part and parcel of today's standard of living. Imagine a world where the seamstress union was able to successfully ban them and shirts cost 4 times what they do now because everything had to be hand sewn.

    Automation is always viewed as an evil by the class of workers it's replacing, but it is inevitably a net positive for the world as a whole, as the price of goods drop and production increases. The class of workers that become redundant experience some pain, of course, but all that excess labor eventually finds its way to other fields to contribute in other ways.

    • Re:Luddites (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sjames ( 1099 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:58PM (#64898273) Homepage Journal

      Since it's such a minor setback for the workers, perhaps the society as a whole should share the burden as well as the benefit. Perhaps if they had time and were allowed to talk, they might put together some sort of group that could lobby for that. Perhaps they could call it a union.

  • One big difference (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MpVpRb ( 1423381 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @04:51PM (#64898269)

    Working in a steel mill or factory takes skill, sometimes requiring years to learn
    Working in a warehouse requires a short bit of training, sometimes just a few hours

    • Working in a steel mill or factory takes skill, sometimes requiring years to learn Working in a warehouse requires a short bit of training, sometimes just a few hours

      As someone who worked in a warehouse in the 1980s, contemporaneous to when unions were strong, I would say no, not a few hours. But I would say 4-6 months, not years, to become skilled at it. Unloading trucks, tagging merch, stocking shelves, picking for orders, etc.

      Also the article is flat out wrong regarding "They work on their own and rarely socialize.". Again, not true at all, company parties, softball leagues, bowling leagues, ... Again, back in the days when unions were strong.

      • Skillset (Score:5, Insightful)

        by JBMcB ( 73720 ) on Sunday October 27, 2024 @06:46PM (#64898449)

        I'd say it is heavily dependent on the type of warehouse. An early 20's relative of mine worked a a food packing warehouse. They made him a low level supervisor after a month, mainly because he could read, write legibly, and do basic math. He also showed up to work on time and always finished out his shift. Apparently this put him in the top 5% of their workforce.

        • by drnb ( 2434720 )

          I'd say it is heavily dependent on the type of warehouse. An early 20's relative of mine worked a a food packing warehouse.

          Yeah, my experience was strictly with stuff heading to department stores, no food. Now that did include some jewelry and firearms that required special handling, mostly stocking in a secured area and constant observation from the truck to that area.

          They made him a low level supervisor after a month, mainly because he could read, write legibly, and do basic math. He also showed up to work on time and always finished out his shift. Apparently this put him in the top 5% of their workforce.

          Not entirely surprised, there was a strong contingent of stoners among the long time full timers at my warehouse. The ladies were good, most of them working mom's with kids old enough for them to return to work. The only problem they had were when the trucks were

      • You have to be the most incompetent employee ever, if it takes you 4-6 months to learn how to do those things.

        It's number matching, and counting...and moving "item", from "here" to "there". The first few weeks, the main challenge is finding warehouse locations...but you pretty quickly get to a point where you can look at an item number, and you know where it's located in the warehouse.

        And for all the jokes about "forklift certification"...driving a forklift is easy. If you're working full time...that's 40

        • by drnb ( 2434720 ) on Monday October 28, 2024 @03:26AM (#64899171)

          You have to be the most incompetent employee ever, if it takes you 4-6 months to learn how to do those things.

          LOL. You confuse doing them with doing them well.

          It's number matching, and counting...and moving "item", from "here" to "there". The first few weeks, the main challenge is finding warehouse locations...but you pretty quickly get to a point where you can look at an item number, and you know where it's located in the warehouse.

          Sure. But you're describing the newb way. As you gain proficiency pulling orders you do a little look ahead through multiple orders, maybe grab something nearby the main order, maybe your considering route planning while pulling two or three orders at a time.

          And pulling order is just one aspect. Some days you're unloading the trucks and ticketing/tagging items. Watching someone a few months into the job and you see a whole lot more speed and accuracy than there weeks.

          And when the tagged items have to go on the shelves for the pickers to find. Well guess what, there is not a continent large enough empty shelf for them, so you have to do some reorganizing of inventory. Here again, proficiency and good judgement in how and what to move around takes time to develop. You are basically coming up with adhoc solutions to NP-complete mathematical problems.

          And this is all just scratching the surface.

          If you're working full time...that's 40 hours of practice per week. You get good, fast.

          We weren't specialists. We rotated through all the major tasks. It took months to get to the point where you could walk in and go wherever assigned and excel at it.

          People need to accept that some jobs are for monkeys...and not every job is worth six figures.

          No problem. The warehouse was a great job while in school, until a couple of years into my degree program where I could get a part time and summer job related to my major, one that could turn into full time after graduation. The warehouse was just a temporary gig, but as far as temporary gigs go it was pretty good.

    • Working in a steel mill or factory takes skill, sometimes requiring years to learn Working in a warehouse requires a short bit of training, sometimes just a few hours

      Electricians and machinists are skilled. Working an assembly line is not. Doing work that's in a warehouse or factory is not skilled, it's "located," and irrelevant in re: skilled labor or not.

      But you knew that and were trying to poison the well with "equality," right?

      • I am probably more skilled than you, but I do understand that America needs to be a middle class country, and not an Oligarchy. A minimum wage and exploitation of workers will not support a strong Democracy.
        • I am probably more skilled than you, but I do understand that America needs to be a middle class country, and not an Oligarchy. A minimum wage and exploitation of workers will not support a strong Democracy.

          White collar and skilled labor are not the same. I'm white collar. You seem less able with language and reasoning. You win. You're "more skilled."

          • Just to get to your squirrels in you brain, you think that Oligarch should throw around a million dollars a day in order to get their political candidates elected? Even when you know it is a quid pro quo, that those Oligarchs live off of Government Contracts?
            • I'm sorry. What was the topic? This is a parade of unhinged non-sequiturs. The poor grammar doesn't help any.

              • The topic is how American workers have no choice but to take a minimum wage job at a warehouse, and be happy about it. Even though... there is a lot of money up for grabs there, and it all goes to American Oligarchs. They build schools for children, a task that should be reserved for the Government, if taxes can be raised from the Oligarchs.
                • Oh! You've changed the topic then. That explains some things.
                • The topic is how American workers have no choice but to take a minimum wage job at a warehouse, and be happy about it.

                  Wut? Does your knowledge of the US come from Putin?

                  There are many jerbs in the USA that pay normal people good wages and allow them to build a decent life. Your statement that we have no choice but work for minimum wage is not even wrong.

    • I am not going to argue you have to be a genius to work in the average warehouse, but it certainly requires more than just a few hours of learning. The tasks are simple enough, but you still need to internalize them to do them with anything approaching competence.

  • It turns out that making stuff isn't the same as distributing it

    Or maybe they're not unionized workers anymore. How is that not the most obvious factor here?

  • They work on their own and rarely socialize. They are notoriously difficult to organize.

    Complete bullshit. When you compare workers of a contemporaneous period, lets say the end of the glory days of the unions, warehouse workers also made enduring friendships, engaged in company softball and bowling leagues, spent a lot of off hours handing out with coworkers. Been there, done that, worked is a warehouse in the 1980s.
    What's different is the steel working is a more technical and dangerous job. It take years to become skilled at it, I'd say it takes about six months to get skilled at basic war

  • Women and working-class men won the right to vote in the United States, Western Europe and much of East Asia after about a quarter of those populations were employed in factories

    French first revolution happened before the industrial revolution. It was a landscape without factories, and working-class men (not women at that time) asked and obtained the right to vote

    Unfortunately, the paper backing the allegation is not freely available, hence I cannot tell if it addresses that point.

    • What I learned from the French Revolution, is that Oligarchs thought that cake was so available that nobody needed to starve to death.
  • Despite their large numbers, their importance to the economy, and their presence in Northampton â" a swing county in a crucial battleground state â" warehouse workers don't form an influential voting bloc in the way that steelworkers did... It turns out that making stuff isn't the same as distributing it.

    Working in steel plant is skilled work - you can't just drag someone in off the street and expect them to do the work.

    On the other hand, moving pallets, picking items, driving delivery trucks are really (comparably) unskilled jobs. A person can be brought in off the street and be trained to work in a warehouse in a few hours.

    Thankfully, if warehouse owners ever faced a serious strike, all the owners would have to do is convert their systems to Spanish and start hiring some of those asylum seekers entering t

    • Working in steel plant is skilled work - you can't just drag someone in off the street and expect them to do the work.

      I watch a fair amount of steelworker video in some Asian countries. They are using a lot of worn out equipment, working a lot of the moldmaking and smelting equipment by hand, and the results aren't always aircraft grade, but no one could deny that they are extremely skilled people.

      On the other hand, moving pallets, picking items, driving delivery trucks are really (comparably) unskilled jobs. A person can be brought in off the street and be trained to work in a warehouse in a few hours.

      I've always been conflicted about these things. A person working full time at a warehouse should be able to make a living. But what is a living wage?

      Way back in 1979, I was working with an engineer who was making 6 figures,

  • Factories were so good at political mobilization, in fact, that some credit them for democracy itself.

    If by 'some' you mean 'absolutely nobody ever', then I agree with this statement. Seriously, democracy wasn't around before factories?

    • You never heard of the Athens megafactory of ancient Greece? Where do you think they made that cool clockwork owl in Clash of the Titans? All the best tech gadgets came from there in 1200 BC.

  • Keep voting for Republicans who screw you over.

    Not that the Dems are perfect, but the difference is huge.

  • Unless you are on the executive committee, being in a union is next to useless.
  • 19,000 people still have the political power of 19,000 votes

    What has changed is that no one has the power to harness those votes as a single unit.

    You used to have 19,000 steel workers who would listen to their union when it was time to cast their ballot, and whoever could tell the union what to recommend to their members held the true power.

    19,000 votes stayed 19,000 votes, but now their issues and votes are scattered into 19,000 individual votes and shaking a few hands at the factory gate may get you a han

  • In Germany, the Union regularly organizes strikes and picket lines at Amazon warehouses for years now*, but because it's a logistic company, the wares go out from other German or French, Polish, Dutch or Luxembourg warehouses, having no impact.

    * It's a stupid strike, the Union insists that Amazon is a retail shop and should pay those wages, while Amazon shows them that they are a logistic company by "logisticating" around all the strikes.

  • TFA is about how politicians are upset that blue-collar voters aren't voting as a single block (read: Blue) anymore. This is all about the Democrats being upset that they may lose a big voting block. TFA has jack to do with whether blue-collar workers are earning a fair wage or whatnot.

  • They compare retail warehouses to steel plants as if one replaced the other. The only similarity I see is that they both use big buildings! The equivalent to an Amazon warehouse worker isn't a steelworker; it's another retail worker (a store employee or a distribution warehouse worker). How many retail workers are/were unionized?

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