US Experts Say Headlights Aren't Bright Enough (theguardian.com) 160
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Complaints about the brightness of modern headlights have become commonplace. On X, thousands of users have tweeted about headlights being too bright. The subreddit r/fuckyourheadlights has over 35,000 members who post blurry photos of offending high beams and LED headlights. Outlets like the New York Times and NBC News have written about the risks of headlight glare. Advocacy groups have called for bans on LED headlights. And the UK government launched a review into the dangers of headlight glare earlier this year, after many driver complaints. And yet, according to many experts, the problem with headlights is not that they're too bright -- it's that they're not bright enough. "We actually need more light on the road than what we have," says Greg Bannon, director of automotive engineering at the American Automobile Association (AAA). Only a minority of US roadways have overhead street lighting, as one 2019 AAA report noted. As a result, in many areas, headlights are the sole method of illumination when driving at night. But which is the safety bigger risk: inadequate illumination, or headlights that impair the vision of other drivers? The report notes that the U.S. standards set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) haven't changed in decades and are much weaker than Europe's. Adaptive headlights, which automatically adjust brightness to avoid blinding other drivers, have been approved by NHTSA since 2022 but are still relatively rare due to differing standards and costs.
Removing overhead lights (Score:2)
Just yesterday I read a news article about removing tall overhead lights next to roads because they just cause light pollution and are not needed with modern headlights. Shrug.
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Problem of course being is that the car headlights direction of illumination is pointed straight at various eyes at ground level (oncoming traffic, into the mirrors of cars in front of them, at pedestrians and wildlife) and the street lamps are nicely pointed down so that unless you are looking straight up, you are unlikely to be bothered by them.
It's crazy to remove overhead lights when they are cheaper to power and more durable than ever compared to the past.
There's been people talking about giving headli
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Some observations I have made.
- "Glare free" headlights don't work - either they just protect from glare towards the closest vehicle so if you are number 2 in a meeting queue you'll get the full force in your eyes or they are too slow to react and remove the glare, several seconds later.
- The color temperature is way too high so it burns your retina harder with a longer lingering effect.
Due to the color temperature issue I have now started using yellow polarized sunglasses at night.
or you know people could just slow down (Score:3, Interesting)
We could also just slow down at night. Having 'night-time' speed limits on roads that don't have overhead lights would make all kinds of sense, and would not require even more expensive tech in new cars, and would mean people would not need to have black out curtains on their houses just so it does not feel like they are at a rave all night due to passing traffic.
Re:or you know people could just slow down (Score:4, Insightful)
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i thought it was no speed limit and some speed limit at night.
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By this logic we can solve the issue by simply banning all driving at night :|
( Which works, I guess, but is a bit overkill for a simple solution )
The lights simply need to be angled / collimated so they're not pointing directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic.
Re:But is it proportionally correct? (Score:5, Interesting)
TFS refences headlight glare, but nothing about accidents and dangers of high speed. You have citations?
Glare, however, is great fun. Lifted pickup trucks around here (Phoenix area) have begun to regularly operate with the low beams positioned above the height of my car (Prius), adding on the foglights/daytime running lights, leading to an intensity and focus that is distractingly bright and blinding. How about, along with 'brighter' headlights, we set standards for height, focus, and beam shape for vehicles?
I'll leave motorcyclists out of this, they are rightfully paranoid that someone will miss them as they zip through the main streets and freeways at maximum practical speed, splitting lanes day and night. They are nimble enough to avoid many collisions, and my close calls with them are a reminder I need to pull over and get the hell out of the way. Like letting the 4x4 pickups get past to give someone else a thrill.
Enforce headlight standards first, ok?
Re:But is it proportionally correct? (Score:4, Insightful)
Come out to Phoenix and try driving the wrong way on an Interstate or state highway. You'll get a hero's welcome.
No, actually, you'll get jail. This has become a problem, and the Arizona DOT has installed detection cameras, configured warning signs, and the courts imposing significant penalties. Most/All of these incidents are associated with DUIs, the underlying problem that has been punished by specific campaigns and even roadway checks. 187 people died between 2010 and 2020 in Arizona due to wrong-way driver accidents.
And then we have the traffic cameras enforcing speed limits, failure to stop, etc.
Your premise that traffic laws aren't enforced is refuted, at least in Arizona, by evidence. Headlight laws in Arizona?
"C. A head lamp on a motor vehicle, including a motorcycle, an all-terrain vehicle and a motor driven cycle, shall be located at a height of not more than fifty-four inches nor less than twenty-two inches to be measured as provided in section 28-923, subsection B." ARS 28-924.
"B. If a requirement is provided in this article for the mounted height of lamps or devices it means from the center of the lamp or device to the level ground on which the vehicle stands when the vehicle is without a load." ARS 28-923.
That's as maximum height to the center of the lamp/device of 4 and a half feet. Enforcement? I bet the police will tell you they are busy with wrong-way drivers, fentanyl, and the teen gangs. But they should be busy with it all, agreed.
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Drunk people driving the wrong way on divided highways is nothing new. Used to happen quite a bit in the 70s when I was a kid, I remember my dad being all fearful and swerving out of the way of one on the Garden State Parkway (NJ). Closest call I remember. I got flashbacks when I saw that scene in the Matrix on the freeway.
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OK. My BS-meter is going off. Let's address this post point-by-point.
I remember reading about a the 55mph US national speed limit years ago, and it was pointed out that this particular speed limit wasted 250 person-years for every life it saved.
First, it's not just life and death. It's life, stress, hesitation, injury, loss of property, and death. Excessive speed and negligence on the road is one of the reasons people choose not to let their kids walk/bike to school in the numbers they used to which means they have to drive their kids thereby further congesting certain parts of town in the morning. It's a complete web of influences that much more weighty than "people dying".
Secon
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your points are salient, however i feel like defending
1. Kept their speeds reasonable and prudent for the conditions.
people working multiple jobs, or jobs with long hours or jobs/bosses, that do not take into account road conditions. the quality of life considerations should not be one sided.
3. Did not allow themselves to be distracted while operating heavy machinery.
some sort of right to disengage from devices would be helpful, i personally normally put the cell phone out of reach and in silent mode when d
Re:But is it proportionally correct? (Score:4, Insightful)
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So...what is your goal with this post? you seem to be trolling for something, but I can't quite figure out what it is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt -- I won't plonkfile you if you can address issues in your post.
We could also just slow down at night. Having 'night-time' speed limits on roads that don't have overhead lights would make all kinds of sense...
This actually circles back to the main topic of excessively bright headlights; however, reducing night-time speeds is just one potential response. The discussion is about addressing the blinding effect of high-intensity lights, which affects driver visibility and safety directly. Your s
Re:But is it proportionally correct? (Score:4, Informative)
We have different words for "day" and "night". (Score:2)
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Re:We have different words for "day" and "night". (Score:4)
DRLs that are bright enough to use as headlights in my opinion are a poor design. and DRLs that are amber should be illegal, amber should only be used for signalling - fuck you Kia.
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I have found that they are only blinding if you stare directly into them. Keep your eyes straight ahead and slightly elevated and you won't have a problem.
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Re:We have different words for "day" and "night". (Score:4, Insightful)
You're wrong.
For at least 10 years before your cataracts impede your vision sufficiently for treatment, they cause some problems with nighttime driving. Sure, banish them from the roadways at night.
Elevate your eyes, what need is there to see the road clearly? Pedestrians? Pfft.
Eyes straight ahead? That left exit sign isn't important, you'll get there eventually. It's not about you, so stifle.
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So the headlights are meant to make you see the road, but I can't see the road because it curves to the left and I have my eyes straight ahead and slightly elevated. I sure hope I don't hit a car hidden in the glare head on! Guess we'll find out.
Meanwhile, the crazy "advanced" headlights are getting so expensive that it would be cheaper to have night vision goggles and no headlights.
In the real world, I already have to keep my eyes down and focused on the fog line to be able to keep my lane when there's onc
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And some people's headlights are straight-up blinding.
That's so rare. Most people are pretty dim in the headlights.
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in other news, the sun is not bright enough
Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit! I've been blinded by glare from oncoming headlights at noon on a bright sunny day! I try to no longer drive at night because of all the too-fucking-bright headlights blinding me. It's especially bad because I choose to drive a car, not a truck or SUV so all those truck and SUV headlights are at my eye level. It almost seems like modern vehicles are no longer equipped with low beams!
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If you've ever used an LED headlamp to actually do work in a dark area, like under the dashboard of a car, the LED headlamps make light, but you actually can't see very well vs a regular incandescent.
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:4)
The actual problem with led is that they are very focused so it only lights what it is designed to illuminate, classic lighting just shines everywhere so half of the incandescent is just uselessly radiating up and away.
That extreme focus of LED is actually the problem for oncoming drivers, if you are encountering one from a lower position or they hit a bump in the road that focused beam is now up off the road and you are now blinded.
With focused LEDs there does really need to be yearly inspections to be sure they are properly aligned to reduce blinding fellow drivers AND to simply fail aftermarket leds that are not DOT approved for that vehicle. Fucking blue spectrum cheap LEDS... Ok rant averted.
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The GP was comparing halogen with LEDs, not incandescent with LEDs.
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The GP was comparing halogen with LEDs, not incandescent with LEDs.
Ambiguous. Tungsten-halogen lamps are actually a form of incandescent lamp (the halogen vapor keeps the tungsten filament from burning out, allowing the filament to operate hotter).
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You're partly right. LED and projectors are capable of emitting a much more effective beam of light, and when they are properly engineered this can be done much more effectively than most old halogens. I was fairly impressed by the headlights that came with my current car--above the line the headlamps care about it's just about total darkness, and viewed from the front the lamps look just like an evenly white sphere. There's no "hotspot" on them that will roast someone else's retinas. The areas my headl
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Is it possible you've experienced low color rendering index (CRI) headlamps and headlights? That's a measure of how many wavelengths make up the light, thus how many colors can be rendered. For example low pressure sodium vapor lamps give off a very narrow range of orange light, and you can't see any color in that cast. The CRI is actually negative. I remember the first LED flashlights I had didn't provide good illumination, but it tends to be better these days if you buy name brand flashlights (which use n
Re: Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:2)
Standard headlights might not be bright enough, but too many aftermarket lamps are too bright or have too much UV in them. Painful when they approach or worse, follow behind you for miles.
Some of the aftermarket ones know they are illegal and sell them 'for off-road use only "
Re: Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Informative)
Unlike florescent tubes, LED lighting doesn't have any UV in it. The natural colour is pure blue. White is a combination of the LED + yellow phosphor.
What you're likely noticing is just the narrow bands of yellow and blue not being as broad spectrum as what incandescent filaments produce.
Xenon [Re: Not BRIGHT enough?] (Score:2)
Standard headlights might not be bright enough, but too many aftermarket lamps are too bright or have too much UV in them.
Unlike florescent tubes, LED lighting doesn't have any UV in it.
True, but the aftermarket headlights he is referring to are probably Xenon lamps, which do emit UV.
They are annoyingly, blindingly blue.
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LED lighting doesn't have any UV in it
there are UV LEDS nowadays
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You don't put them in car headlights.
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Wot? LEDs natural color is pure blue? Why, then, did we mainly only see red and green LEDs until about 1991?
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
yep, I hear that. I made the 'mistake' of taking an 80's vintage classic out after dark. Passengers are seated very low to the ground compared to modern cars. Anytime a contemporary pickup or SUV (pretty much everything on the roads now) passed in the opposite direction, nothing but dazzling lights in my face, could not see a darn thing besides 'white'.
If they are going to allow these things to be any brighter they better darn well require more downward angle at the same time, or lower placement.
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Funny)
This is the 2020s. The proper solution for this issue is to install a lift kit on your vintage car and turn it into an SUV.
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Put those headlights up high over the driver and aim them way down. Now a bump wont flash the oncoming driver and the car in front of you. Silly? Sure.
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
Bullshit! I've been blinded by glare from oncoming headlights at noon on a bright sunny day!
That has been my experience as well. Even in broad daylight I end up swearing out loud several times a week at oncoming headlights - and I drive a lot fewer miles in a week than I used to. Today's headlights are actually dangerous as far as I'm concerned.
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Hear F-ing hear!
Those LED projector lights (great if you're driving) will completely blind you coming from some other cars. Either that or people are just flat out running with their brights on.
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's because of badly adjusted headlights on other vehicles. They are supposed to be aimed so they don't blind you.
The good news is that there is some new tech that fixes this. Matrix headlights use a camera to detect where other sources of light are (i.e. your headlights/rear lights) and mask off that area, while still illuminating everything else on high beams. Think of it like a chess board viewed from above, and any square where there is a piece isn't lit up.
I hear they are not legal in the US yet, bu
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Well it would be pretty obvious to anyone observing their car, as the different parts of the matrix turn on and off.
Re:Not BRIGHT enough? (Score:5, Insightful)
Bullshit! I've been blinded by glare from oncoming headlights at noon on a bright sunny day! I try to no longer drive at night because of all the too-fucking-bright headlights blinding me. It's especially bad because I choose to drive a car, not a truck or SUV so all those truck and SUV headlights are at my eye level. It almost seems like modern vehicles are no longer equipped with low beams!
This.
Not only are headlights already too bright, they're aimed way too high because of the height of SUVs,
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If this person doesn't think headlights are bright enough, mount one of these [ebayimg.com] of top of every vehicle. If that's not bright enough, nothing is.
Adaptive Headlights (Score:3)
Adaptive headlights, which automatically adjust brightness to avoid blinding other drivers ...
Maybe they do this in theory, but it seems to me that they don't actually do it until you're 50 feet away from them, and then only if you're both on flat ground. At any rate, the idea that we need brighter headlights that are already on the road has to be the dumbest thing I've heard.
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One of my families vehicles has this feature and it seems to work pretty well. The automatic system doesn't switch off the high beams as fast as I would like, much of the time, but it does the job far more reliably than I do myself. I've never seen it fail to turn off the high beams or take more than a couple seconds to realize it needs to take that action.
They are misaimed because we don't control it (Score:5, Informative)
It is the law, at least here in California where we have the most vehicles and the most vehicle-miles traveled, that headlights have to be properly adjusted. We even have official headlight adjustment check locations where you can be sent (in theory) if a cop notices that your headlights are misaimed.
But all you have to do to find misaimed headlights is go out for a drive at night, and you will see them everywhere. It is very obvious which ones are misaimed because they are the ones that hurt.
A lot of people blame this on LED headlights, especially where aftermarket LED capsules are used in vehicles which were designed for halogen lights. This is generally ignorant but not entirely wrong. Some LED headlights replace multiple types, and they have to be adjusted to match the correct type. The base ring has to be unscrewed, rotated, and re-screwed. Then the LEDs are in the correct locations for the reflectors to work correctly. Also, some manufacturers' LED headlights are just full of bright point lights because of the reflector design being bad, that is a real thing.
Anyway if we want to not be blinded we have to support police pulling people over for misaimed headlights and sending them for inspections. I know that is problematic in many ways; all of those ways are related to ways in which we are doing policing wrong, but we can't let them prevent headlight inspections.
If our country wasn't deliberately designed to make it necessary to drive then perhaps we could make all states do mandatory recurring headlight inspections.
Followup, all vehicles should have automatic headlight aiming so that they compensate for when heavy loads are put into them. And the manufacturers should be forced to do recalls when they have high failure rates like they are with seatbelts, because they are an essential safety feature.
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I've noticed I have to lower mine after I get each warrant on the car. I'm of the opinion this is a problem not with the owners so much as it is with the practices of mechanics/inspection crew and their training.
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It seems like the sort of thing that could be automated. It wouldn't be difficult to build a roadside camera that detects incorrectly adjusted headlights, at least for the worst offenders. Wouldn't have to be a ticket initially, just a big red sign that lights up as you go past, like those speed check ones.
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We've got enough surveillance, thank you. Less not more.
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So yeah, I guess that is why that is not a thing.
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"If our country wasn't deliberately designed to make it necessary to drive then perhaps we could make all states do mandatory recurring headlight inspections."
Geography sucks, dude. Why did we make our nation so damned big? Why do people have to live in sperate houses, anyways? SO SO terrible.
And you're not even European.
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Yup, certainly not Arizona. The government is much more concerned with vehicle emissions in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas. Feh.
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It's not so simple (Score:3)
Headlights need to be properly aimed, have a proper lighting pattern, a reasonable brightness, and the right colour temperature. Get any one of those wrong, and you could be that asshole blinding everyone around you.
I suspect an awful lot of aftermarket lights end up getting several if not all of those things outside the comfort zone for other drivers.
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Headlights need to be properly aimed
Sometimes they are so bright they seemed to be aimed at my soul.
Augmented vision (Score:2)
Where's the data? (Score:2)
TFA vaguely mentions some data but nothing concrete. Give us numbers on how many severe accidents might not have happened with brighter lights, vs with less bright lights. Anything else is just people having opinions.
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But also consult statistics on severe accidents due to being blinded by oncoming headlights.
Not bright enough? (Score:3)
Oh, they ARE bright enough. The headlights are just out of alignment and not focused on the road as they should be.
I have a 2013 Hyundai. There is no mechanism to adjust the lights. You either have to put them in correctly every time (easier said than done given the space you have to work) or have misaligned lights.
Where I live, it's not legal to retrofit LED lights. The best I can do is to install expensive halogen bulbs.
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Actually, it probably is illegal to retrofit poorly-designed LED lights that will blind everyone who sees them.
What? (Score:2)
New headlights are often too bright. Plus, some car direct extreme amounts of light at the ground. If the car hits a bump, you get a flash worse than brights.
Furthermore, adaptive headlights should dim when they spot a pedestrian. At night, if you are walking and someone shines a super bright light in your face, you can't see anything at all. Same with cyclists. It isn't safe if you can't see the ground 5 feet in front of you due to some a**hole's high-beams.
Where is the blue light on the dash??? (Score:3)
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Mostly is the stupidity of people who think they have to run their high beams all the time.
I swear there are people out there who would say, "But I thought that was the indicator telling me my headlights were on!"
Where I live I need to use a combination of low and high beams because there are no street lights in my neighborhood. Fortunately my car has "auto high beams" so when it detects enough light coming at me they cut down to low beams... but I am also attentive enough to turn them down manually when I see people walking (my neighborhood has no sidewalks either) so I don't blind them as well
No, it's the children who are wrong (Score:2)
Meme in real life
Wrong way to look at it (Score:4, Interesting)
We're already into "weird colors, dazzling and glaring" territory, all of which aren't allowed for headlights in any state because they make it harder for other road users and wildlife to see what they're doing to stay safe.
Doubling down isn't going to fix this. The fact of the matter is highbeams aren't effective past about 100 km/h, lowbeams aren't effective past about 50 km/h and there's no ways around that other than install highway lighting. Motorists need to start acting like adults with competent time management, trip planning and risk assessment skills instead of acting like entitled toddlers on the road. No, you don't get to drive as fast as you want, where you want, whenever you want, however you want. You don't exist in a vacuum.
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DLR is another facet to this problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Daytime Running Lights are too bright now too. It isn't that they don't work well, they work so well folks don't realize they don't have their actual headlights on. Every night I see cars driving around on highways with no tail lights on and the drivers are adamant their lights are on. Argh.
I am thinking it is more the DLRs are too good than that drivers are unaware of the controls. One of these is fixable.
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Daytime Running Lights are too bright now too. It isn't that they don't work well, they work so well folks don't realize they don't have their actual headlights on. Every night I see cars driving around on highways with no tail lights on and the drivers are adamant their lights are on. Argh.
I am thinking it is more the DLRs are too good than that drivers are unaware of the controls. One of these is fixable.
Yeah, I got pulled over because I though my daytime running lights were my headlights.
Some experts (Score:2)
I"m gonna start carrying a small shaving mirror (Score:2)
I'm gonna start carrying a small shaving mirror in my car. For when the inbred retard with the Diesel Douchebag / Bro Dozer / Pavement Princess behind me insists on igniting their LED bar, roof-mounted spots and his hi-beams.
I'll shine that shit back into their faces.
Big problem isn't factory. Big problem is aftermarket and morons who don't realize when they "convert" from filament to arc lamps or LEDs that their lens shape and aiming is all wrong.
Re: I"m gonna start carrying a small shaving mirro (Score:2)
Night vision suffers due to LED lights (Score:2)
Beam pattern is too perfect (Score:2)
I think the issue here is that the beam pattern on LED lights is too perfect. The top edge of the beam is a sharp horizontal line on modern lights. So if you are looking at the light and your eyes are above that line, the light looks dimmer than ever before. That's good. The problem is if the oncoming car is angled upwards, like cresting a hill, and your eyes are below that line, you get the full brightness of the lights in your face. Which is brighter than ever.
With older non-LED lights, there was a gradie
Too Damn Bright Already (Score:2)
If I could find good quality clear retroreflectors I have thought about putting a line of them on my dash board so that what I am seeing would be reflected back to the source.
Before I mostly gave up driving at night I noticed that when out in a very rural area with no street lights I could see fine on either my LOW or HIGH beams in my 2001 car.
Regulations mean different things in U.S./Europe (Score:4, Interesting)
This report is a comprehensive comparison of apples and oranges.
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It seems US headlights lack the regulations to keep some unnecessary truck or SUV from shining directly into your face or back window of a car... and I'm not even thinking of suspension lift kits.
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not to mention the dumbassess that change the angle of the headlights or the bad repair shops that inadvertently do this.
Wrong Question (Score:2)
Why are eyes not sensative enough?!!
Geeze, just upgrade everyone's optics for night-vision.
Polaroid (Score:2)
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Yes: Here's Land's paper, outlining the concept: https://onlinepubs.trb.org/Onl... [trb.org]
Unfortunately, having polarized headlights (and polarized windshields) doesn't do anything if the other drivers don't have it as well. Until everybody (or at least almost everybody) adopts it, it's not useful.
So the idea never went anywhere.,
Outdriving your lights and vision (Score:2)
There is truth here (Score:2)
So, drivers can't see, and people facing the driver can't see. It's a win win!!
It is a matter of perspective, I guess. (Score:2)
So the experts need to change the "Driver Seat" to the opposite vehicle.
It's worse than you think (Score:2)
The problem goes far deeper. While the NHTSA does publish standards for headlights, they don't do any actual testing and have no real power to require manufacturer of after-market lights comply with them. If you see a product saying it's "NHTSA tested" or "NHTSA approved", those are lies because the NHTSA doesn't actually do those things.
...and the problem with the annoying headlights is generally one the NHTSA has specific guidelines against. For many of these headlights to be compliant, their light wou
Very Bad Headline - No Expert Said That (Score:2)
Here's a rundown of every person or group listed and a summary of what they say on the matter:
* Advocacy groups have called for bans on LED headlights.
* UK government launched a review into the dangers of headlight glare earlier this year, after many driver complaints.
* Greg Bannon, AAA.: "We actually need more light on the road than what we have” (because headlights are the sole method of illumination in some areas)
* Dr Joanne Wood, Optometry Prof @ Queensland University of Technology: “When ad
People complain about LED lights, but... (Score:2)
...it's all about the aim, not the light source
A lot of lights are improperly aimed
Even walking it is a problem (Score:2)
I like to take walks with my dogs and kids, as it is getting darker earlier and earlier we are noticing it is becoming a big problem off on the side of the road. Often times I will actually walk backwards if an event is ending as the constant stream of super bright lights is to much to walk into.
Multiple meanings of "brightness" (Score:2)
Even if you use a lens to make the laser illuminate at large area, it will still look very because the source size is so small. A laser has a very small "transverse phases space": small source size and small di
So much to unpack here: (Score:2)
So far as wanting LED headlights to be even brighter than they already are? Hell, no! As a fellow motorist as well as a cyclist who rides at night, they're already bright enough.
Some people are talking about them not being aimed correc
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It's worse than "they are not aimed properly" - due to the wide range of vehicle heights and seating positions, there is no "proper" fixed alignment, and trying to come up with a dynamic alignment is likely an impractical task. This is from the US viewpoint; I'm not familiar with the EU dynamic matrix lighting or whatever (which also costs a stupendous amount compared to basic lighting.)
I think the problem with modern lights isn't the brightness level, but the color spectrum and glare/focus. The lights ha