ISS Astronauts are Safe. But NASA and Russia Disagree on How to Fix Leak (space.com) 39
"NASA has emphasized the ISS crew is in no immediate danger," reports Space.com. "The leaking area in the Russian segment of the orbital complex has been ongoing for five years," and "there was a temporary increase in the leak rate that was patched earlier this year..."
Former astronaut Bob Cabana emphasized that troubleshooting is ongoing during a brief livestreamed meeting on Wednesday. But NASA and Roscosmos "don't have a common understanding of what the likely root causes or the severity of the consequences of these leaks." "The Russian position is that the most probable cause of the cracks is high cycling caused by micro-vibrations," Cabana said, referring to flexing of metal and similar components that heat and cool as the ISS orbits in and out of sunlight. "NASA believes the PrK cracks are likely multi-causal — including pressure and mechanical stress, residual stress, material properties and environmental exposures," Cabana continued.
NASA and Russia disagree about whether "continued operations are safe", he added, but the remedy for now is to keep the hatch closed between the U.S. and Russian side as investigations continue.
The two agencies will continue meeting to seek "common understanding of the structural integrity", Cabana pledged, but he did not provide a timeline. Academic and industry experts will also be consulted.
Former astronaut Bob Cabana emphasized that troubleshooting is ongoing during a brief livestreamed meeting on Wednesday. But NASA and Roscosmos "don't have a common understanding of what the likely root causes or the severity of the consequences of these leaks." "The Russian position is that the most probable cause of the cracks is high cycling caused by micro-vibrations," Cabana said, referring to flexing of metal and similar components that heat and cool as the ISS orbits in and out of sunlight. "NASA believes the PrK cracks are likely multi-causal — including pressure and mechanical stress, residual stress, material properties and environmental exposures," Cabana continued.
NASA and Russia disagree about whether "continued operations are safe", he added, but the remedy for now is to keep the hatch closed between the U.S. and Russian side as investigations continue.
The two agencies will continue meeting to seek "common understanding of the structural integrity", Cabana pledged, but he did not provide a timeline. Academic and industry experts will also be consulted.
don't fix it (Score:2)
The ISS is being junked soon(ish) anyway. If the leak is not an imminent threat, don't waste time trying to find/fix it. Just monitor it to make sure that it stays non-threatening.
Not worth the time/effort/cost to fix.
Re: (Score:2)
Because this same situation could never happen again.
Re: (Score:2)
Because this same situation could never happen again.
Leaks? They are not a new thing.
If you are trying to say that you think we can learn something useful by going thru the exercise of finding and fixing this particular leak then by all means explain.
No, they disagree on manned space flight's worth (Score:2)
If the ISS is out of service, how much justification will there be for NASA to have a large budget and large programs for manned space flight?
If NASA exists the manned space flight business, will it ever be able to start up again (budget, technology, etc.)?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
OP is quite literally the local idiot. just fyi
Re: (Score:3)
I call a poster with the nic "Local ID10T" 'the local idiot' and someone wastes a mod point
never change /. never change
Re: (Score:2)
reading comprehension failure -you think I am a MAGAt! It does explain the mod-bombing..
Re:don't fix it (Score:4, Insightful)
What you overlook, probably because you are not an engineer or not a good one, is that the ISS also serves to find out things needed for future space installations.
It doesn't sound like they disagree on how to fix. (Score:3)
It sounds more like they disagree on how *important* it is to fix.
The disagreements on why the failure occurred don't seem to be mutually exclusive at all.
Seems implausible (Score:5, Funny)
I've been in several situations in the industrial world where serious failures showed symptoms in advance - usually days or weeks but sometimes years - that were considered not serious, not likely to progress, or "risk analyzed" away with 0-5 qualitative rankings on a spreadsheet matrix. It seems implausible that there is a failure mode in a life- and mission-critical system (breathing air at least, and possibly structural integrity), that NASA has no understanding of the root cause, yet it is declared that "the astronauts are safe" and "can be fixed sometime between now and ISS deorbit". This is the same organization that does contingency analysis on what happens if an astronaut passes gas 10 times in a day instead of the nominal 8 but they have no root cause on a life support system problem?
Re:Seems implausible (Score:4)
You appear to have missed the part where the segment containing the leak can be - and is - sealed off from the rest of the station.
Re:Seems implausible (Score:4, Interesting)
DId not miss that part. However, it could be very dangerous for those on the Russian side if/when it fails. The problematic segment does get opened, and if that section has reduced pressure due to the leak, opening it up, and the increased pressure from that, could cause whatever is failing a little, to fail a lot. Since the Russians don't seem to know all the sources of the leaks, then you can't be sure there isn't something waiting to be ripped wide open.
The risk to those on the US side does seem to be much lower than to those on the Russian side, but not at all zero.
Re: Seems implausible (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
You appear to have missed the part where the segment containing the leak can be - and is - sealed off from the rest of the station.
The structural design of the ISS allows for “safe side” arguments to be about as valid as the non-smoking section on a 737 jetliner circa 1979.
There’s only one space station to fail up there, no matter how many borders we’ve artificially created inside. A problem for one, generally means a problem for all. If disaster strikes we’ll be throwing around blame, not survivor stories.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm fairly certain that there's an escape pod on ISS at all times, specifically for emergencies. And inhabitants of the station routinely go into it when there's a tracked object on close enough orbit with ISS about to pass it.
Also segments are in fact segments, capable of full separation if needed. In fact Russians had plans to separate their segment with all its modules into a separate space station when ISS is scrapped.
Unless all of this changed recently, this isn't really "common disaster" you're talkin
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Your analogy isn't bad. However, you're missing the fact that you don't know why, how, or where (exactly) it is that your one tire is leaking when the others are not. So, it's more of them deciding if it's worth learning what happened to this one tire before purposely trash compacting the whole car. Choosing to not potentially learn from this situation to prevent it or know how to quickly fix it next time is a loser mindset. Which is why Russia doesn't want to do anything about it. They are losers.
Re: Seems implausible (Score:2)
Keeping with the analogy, you have not proved that the leak is in the tyre, and not a crack spreading through the alloy wheel which is going to fail spectacularly at some point, perhaps tomorrow.
Re: (Score:2)
Absolutely.
Re: hatch sealed (Score:3)
Re: hatch sealed (Score:2)
Forgive the ignorance, but... (Score:3)
Forgive the ignorance, but.. if the material has failed to the point where it's causing leaks... doesn't this mean that these stress fractures can lead to a catastrophic failure, not just another small leak, or an increase in current leak rate? It's inevitable. It's already proven to occur, and the cause is not being removed, nor reduced... so there is nothing preventing additional deterioration. We just don't know how it will fully manifest.
If the module has a rapid loss of pressure (blowout), how is that NOT a danger to the crew? I'd imagine massive vibrations, extreme stress forces on parts, and possible debris flying and damaging other components on the station... plus a potential change in the positioning of the station.
Unless they de-pressurized the module to prevent this danger. If that is even possible.
where their mouth is (Score:2)
NASA and Russia disagree about whether "continued operations are safe".
If it's safe, then the Russians should sleep in their module.
Make it a test bed (Score:2)
Re: Make it a test bed (Score:2)
Continue (Score:2)
They can disagree all they want, but the Russians should otherwise be ignored because they're wrong. It doesn't really matter if the station is going to be scuttled relatively soon. It doesn't matter that they keep that section of the station sealed off. It is a problem as well as an opportunity to learn and prevent it in the future. So, not taking the steps to actually figure it out and fix it is, well, stupid. The fact that they haven't found the main problem and patched it after 5 years is just sad and p
closed hatch (Score:2)
As I understand it, the hatch that is being kept closed is NOT between the US and the Russian version (not certain this is a simple interface anyway, as I
beleivee that diffeerent sections were built by both sides and joined int the existing assembly), But is a hatcg accesing an atachemnet poit for temporarily atching such things as supply ships.
150 billion USD spent on the ISS (Score:1)
Re: 150 billion USD spent on the ISS (Score:3)
Send up a can of Flex Seal (Score:2)
Hatches are routinely left OPEN ?? (Score:2)
I don't read ISS operations manuals on a regular basis, but from first principles, I'd have expected default behaviour to be to keep all hatches closed (not "dogged" or "sealed" ; just closed on their springs and hand latch) when you're not actively transiting through them. That's the procedure we've always adopted with watertight doors below the waterline - except when tied up alongside the quay.