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Windows Microsoft IT

Windows 365 Link is a $349 Mini PC That Streams Windows From the Cloud (theverge.com) 74

Microsoft is planning to launch a new purpose-built miniature PC for its Windows 365 cloud service next year. The Verge: Windows 365 Link is a $349 device that acts like a thin client PC to connect to the cloud and stream a version of Windows 11. The Link device is designed to be a compact, fanless, and easy-to-use cloud PC for your local monitors and peripherals. It's meant to be the ideal companion to Microsoft's Windows 365 service, which lets businesses transition employees over to virtual machines that exist in the cloud and can be streamed securely to multiple devices. Windows 365 Link cannot run local apps.

Windows 365 Link is a $349 Mini PC That Streams Windows From the Cloud

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  • If all of the heavy lifting is done elsewhere then this is far too expensive for what it is. Why would I need that much machine? My $300 laptop actually does work and has a screen.

    • by drnb ( 2434720 )

      If all of the heavy lifting is done elsewhere then this is far too expensive for what it is. Why would I need that much machine? My $300 laptop actually does work and has a screen.

      To virtualize the GUI at decent performance.

      • by Njovich ( 553857 )

        Stadia could do that with an $80 dongle for 4k@60 gaming. While you might be right it could point to it being an inefficient service?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by sosume ( 680416 )

      It's called a thin client

      • At that price it's called a thick client

        No wait, that's the schmuck who decides these are worth this much money

      • Back in my day we called these a terminal. And the cloud "timesharing".

        Yes they are different, but is this all we got after 50 years? (TSS 360/TOPS 10/Multics/RTS11/TSS8 all date from the mid 70's.)

        • As you've handily demonstrated once again: There is no such thing as "The Cloud," only "somebody else's server."
          • And "somebody else" means it is not a server that's in a different department in the home office; it means a different company, probably a competitor, most likely watching what you're doing.

      • Remember when computing was all about thin clients, the X Windows model? That died because a lot of people hated it, they wanted to control their own computer on their own desk, not rely upon some IS priesthood who were in charge behind the scenes, so the PC model grew and flourished. Now big corporations are trying to take everyone back to those old days, except instead of the IS cabal it will be the Microsoft/Amazon/Google cabal controlling how you work.

    • A NUC or RPi are already suitable candidates, given the right software.

      • An Intel NUC starts at a much higher price point and is a laptop-class PC (minus the battery and portability) that runs a real (local) OS.
    • by ukoda ( 537183 )
      They are probably try to gouge early adopters. This is a Microsoft wet dream of the ultimate vendor lock in. They could give them away free and probably still make a profit within 6 months.

      I wonder how hard they will try to lock them down so people don't repurpose them as Linux workstations.
  • Won't work until internet speeds improve. I'm in Orlando FL, and not exactly the stix, yet the internet is terrible.
    This failed when OnLive tried to do it.
    This failed when Google tried to do it.
    This too will fail, as no one wants to actually upgrade the underground copper into fiber.

    Not saying cloud services aren't successful, but at this point people who aren't "power-users" still don't have the bandwidth for this kind of crap
    • by drnb ( 2434720 )
      It sounds like it is oriented towards businesses. They might have better connections than at home.
      • You can easily use a cloud desktop over a hotspot while in a car moving down the road for work related stuff. No, it will not run Farcry in any way that wont make you cry, but you can browse the web, use your ERP, Outlook, Excel, etc.. all the while, the computer feels local. So yes, you need large bandwidth if you intend to stream games, use Photoshop, or InDesign etc...

        But let us not pretend this technology has no useful clients who use a work PC for... well... work. It will even stream Youtube and run
        • I can barely use a web site on my phone or tablet over my home wifi, on the road it would be vastly worse because cellular. Heck, Teams barely works as it is now on the fastest PC I have ever used on the corporate network.

      • Modern attempts at thin clients suck ass even when you have gigabit wireline connections to on-prem virtualization servers.

        If there's some theoretical security or management cost savings to be realized with these things, it is swamped by the lost productivity of personnel waiting minutes to even log in to a terminal while the VM is loaded. And waiting more to load applications.

        Back in college, we had some x11 thin clients in some of the campus computer labs. These were there for you to check email or (gasp!

        • Lickety split with 10 or 100mbit connections to run mozilla browser or thunderbird.

          That was true back then. Alas, this is now and the definition of "likety split" has changed.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Sounds like a Florida problem. I live in the northeast and pay $40 for a contract free 300Mbit symmetric connection. I could get a full gigabit for $70 but don’t feel the need.

      • No, you don't understand - when a slashdot user has a poor internet connection, the entire U.S. internet infrastructure is bad. Additionally, it only takes one mention of state subsidized internet access anywhere outside of the U.S. is proof that EVERYONE has better internet access than anyone in the U.S.

        • I have 5gbps FIOS at home. It is symmetrical. All Ubiquiti gear with 10gb / 2.5gb LAN. The bill is $179/mo for the FIOS. Not great, not terrible. But I also have Starlink for backup, so not terrible enough I guess.
    • Of course it will, it's why they waited so long to do it.

      MS already streams games... and for a lot of people they work fine... streaming games was the test for streaming desktops, and it worked.

      Your prediction of doom as no logical basis given the current state of the technology to be used. You're just an outlier, your experience does not denote the average experience.

    • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @11:05AM (#64957463)

      windows 365 pricing will kill the idea
      2 vCPU 4 GB RAM 64 GB Storage USD$32.00 user/month

  • by itsme1234 ( 199680 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @10:36AM (#64957355)

    ... directly from Dell, without any coupons, just like that. It's a usable 6-core 12 Gen Intel, of course with its own RAM and storage but besides that a 120 Hz display, battery and everything.

    AND it comes with a regular Windows license (non-subscription, although they do try to blur the lines more and more).

    If it's a client for (surely paid) "Windows 365 cloud service" free (as in the price of the device) is too much.

    • Depends. If you want to do work on a $230 machine then the Dell laptop is a better choice. If on the other hand you want to spin up a high performance workstation in the cloud for a quick job then $250 is a bargain.

      I have both. I regularly use a shit laptop for work, and every so often when I need to do something truly heavy like simulation work I flip to a Windows 365 desktop.

      • If you intend to use a thin client to run CAD, or some sort of visual modeling, you are going to be sorely disappointed with the performance (latency is going to be high regardless of how many bits you can push through your pipe).
        If you are running real HPC to do some backend processing, ssh will work on your mobile phone for the connectivity you need.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      You can buy a mini PC running windows for $200. Sure it's not something you're going to run a ton of VMs on or do heavy calculations with, but it certainly can then remote into a more powerful PC when you need to. Your email and word processing can happen locally while your simulations happen remotely on the powerful machine.

  • by Rosco P. Coltrane ( 209368 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @10:41AM (#64957375)

    is now complete. You don't own anything anymore, just the right to access software as long as you pay (too much) and if you don't like it, you can go fuck yourself.

    It's maddening for people my age who have known the mainframe era and how liberating the personal computer revolution was. Now we've gone full circle and we're right back to the same pile of vomit.

    Oh well, I guess people one day will have enough of the abuse once again, will wrestle computers away from Big Tech monopolies - again - and the pendulum will swing back the other way, long after I'm gone.

    • What's old is new again. Circle of technology, wheel of invention. It happens with everything at macro and bigger scales.
    • Mainframes are still here rumbling away. 90% of banks still use them. Are they expensive? Yes. Do they run forever and run decades old binaries without failure? Yes. The new technology behind mainframes is fascinating.

      This is the thin client fat server model that never goes away and never quite takes off. Some of the thin clients show up cheap on ebay and make handy low power systems. $25 for a tiny pc that uses a few watts of power.

    • I agree with you, but there is definitely still some hope. I'm noticing a lot of people tired of all the Microsoft shenanigans, be it Recall, forcing MS user accounts, sticking stuff on OneDrive, and all the other "nudging" that is being done. All the cost of these subscriptions add up, and people and companies are starting to go back to having stuff on-prem or running locally.

      I know in red states, there is a segment of the population that does not trust cloud apps for their "cronjobs" that deal with spaw

      • lot of people tired of all the Microsoft shenanigans

        Most people have been tired of Microsoft's shenanigans for the better part of 50 years and Microsoft is still here. At this point, it's almost certain people are either too apathetic to fight the relentless onslaught of abuse, incompetence and mediocrity, or they like it.

        • by DMJC ( 682799 )
          Well if Linux desktops hadn't gone stupid when Windows 8 came out we likely wouldn't be in this position. Gnome3 going full tablet metaphor and the GTK2-GTK3 transition really screwed up the momentum the Linux desktop had. We were at a point where usability was mostly there, and we just needed more applications and UI polish to get across the line (think NetworkManager and the Pulse Audio GUIs). Instead the Linux desktop descended into a hellish stagnation period for about 10 years, followed by another 10 y
    • GPU plans don't even have an listed price any more but an vm with the same baseline cpu + ram + storage (No gpu) is at least $101/mo per user.

    • is now complete. You don't own anything anymore, just the right to access software as long as you pay (too much) and if you don't like it, you can go fuck yourself.

      It's maddening for people my age who have known the mainframe era and how liberating the personal computer revolution was. Now we've gone full circle and we're right back to the same pile of vomit.

      Oh well, I guess people one day will have enough of the abuse once again, will wrestle computers away from Big Tech monopolies - again - and the pendulum will swing back the other way, long after I'm gone.

      For businesses I really don't care one little iota. Management has decided it's "better" to have no infrastructure on prem, and now they're deciding it's better to not even have PCs on prem for anything but design folks. Fair enough. Let 'em learn the hard way. Again.

      But the trickle-down effect that businesses using PCs had on consumer hardware is gonna disappear. I'm planning on buying myself a really nice system here in the next few weeks/months to hold onto for a good long while while we go through this

    • by dargaud ( 518470 )
      (Most) people aren't this stupid. At my workplace (scientific research) IT provides Mac, Windows and Linux machines. We just had a meeting where we discussed dropping Windows support entirely: only 2 employees (out of ~300) requested Windows last year. The rest was evenly divided between Linux and Mac. And if you are desperate there's a Windows VM you can connect to anyway.
  • How awesome (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @10:41AM (#64957379)
    Now every single OS action - every keyboard press and mouse click, will have the same 200ms latency that I get while cooperatively editing a MS365 word file or a Google doc over the internet.
    • You will embrace the latency and love it!!!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH

    • by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @11:11AM (#64957487)

      Now every single OS action - every keyboard press and mouse click, will have the same 200ms latency that I get while cooperatively editing a MS365 word file or a Google doc over the internet.

      Every key you press,

      and every click you make,

      you'll have latency.

      You belong to me,

      I'll be watching you

    • You must be on dialup. The last time I saw 300ms ping times was at 56k. I did a quick ping to 1.1.1.1 and the average was 20ms.

      • Try doing a ping on a satellite connection and watch the ping times going up and down because the data doesn't go up to orbit and back in a steady stream, but in bursts. And, for that matter, follow that up with a traceroute; you'll be surprised at how long that first hop takes.
  • by TWX ( 665546 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2024 @10:43AM (#64957383)

    Even if the way this is being discussed sounds like it could be for home users, this isn't for home users.

    The purpose of this device is to get large businesses even more hooked on Microsoft's ecosystem. It's to attempt to suck even more of the org's IT into Microsoft's cloud. MS is attempting to take the workstation virtualization model where orgs run a Citrix-type or X11-type experience on-premises or at least hosted within hardware within their own datacenters and instead putting it up in the cloud, in this case, Microsoft's cloud.

    I can see where there could be appeal from a business perspective, if you're a huge organization with hundreds of thousands of point of sale terminals then the more of that you take out of the branch offices the less you have to pay for IT work in those branch offices. You can now eliminate most of your regional desktop support staff, just swap-out devices if something goes wrong with one, and what desktop services you do have to provide are now all about tweaking the VM templates that your client sessions spawn off of.

    • Cash registers that need an outside network + an data center.
      And it's not like each location has good fiber internet.
      Some location may have to deal with cell data (the caps can make remote desktops not work that well)
      Others may have XDSL that can range from 25-200 down and lower up
      Cable can be good or just ok.

    • A bespoke Azure Virtual Desktop (AVD) environment (which is what this thing is going to connect to) is much more secure and can be managed more rigorously than having employees scattered on random home networks. That is what companies want, Microsoft is smartly providing a product that "just works". The 3X cost over what they are doing now (they still have to pay for the AVD time) buys them much more security than this gizmo costs.
  • "Windows 365 Link is a $349 device that acts like a thin client PC"
    Think it runs on Linux?

    • Think it runs on Linux?

      It's something entirely doable on 15 bucks Raspberry Pi Zero 2.

      So:
      - Either, it's running Linux, they are over selling it roughly by $334
      - Or, it costs $349 because that's how much processing power you need to pack into a small machine so it can run a Windows-based thin client stack (some "Windows 11 Core/Embed/whatever" + kiosk mode that boots microsoft's RDP Client full screen) because Microsoft wants to run some stupid things locally to enable logging into the remote VM (biometrics like Wi

  • ...nope...nope...nope...

  • This is a thin-client for businesses to deploy to access Windows 365, I imagine. Windows 365 is a subscription service, with its cost based on storage/ramsCPU core count, available in Businesses/Enterprises and Personal/Family plans:

    Business pricing: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]

    Personal/Family plans: https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]

  • in the olympics of bad ideas
    I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole

  • We're back to the days of big iron and dumb terminals as a model.
    • by TWX ( 665546 )

      We're back to the days of big iron and dumb terminals as a model.

      Of course.

      Because if they don't compel everyone to completely replace all of their computing infrastructure every few years, then their business cashflow dries up.

      • We're back to the days of big iron and dumb terminals as a model.

        Of course.

        Because if they don't compel everyone to completely replace all of their computing infrastructure every few years, then their business cashflow dries up.

        This is even better, because you get locked not a subscription model that can run form several hundred to several thousand per user; price points where a desktop could easily be bought. Yes, managing everything is easier and in theory you can cancel seats as needed; but what happens if you decide to migrate back to desktops? How easy will it be to replicate everything in the cloud on the desktop, as well as migrate all your data. You could windup locked in simply because of such scenario.

        It might make man

  • May 1997 [gotthefacts.org]: “NetPC is a new class of desktop PC .. The operating system (Windows’95 or NT) wlil reside on the local disk and execute locally, but most applications and data will reside on the server .. Microsoft has indicated that they are not ready to meet with us on this.”

    Nov 1997 [edge-op.org]: “They [Intel] did 2 things that amaze me .. They kept the NC specification around despite saying they would not .. There is some failure in communication .. Someone needs to figure out and tell me how w
  • MicroSoft WANTS you have to pay them licenses for EVERYTHING. WIndows, Office, Gamepass..... Instead of a three hundred dollar cable bill, it will now be a $300.00 MS365 bill. No thanks Linux, Libre office and Steam work fine..

    • Linux, Libre office and Steam work fine..

      Make that Linux, Libreoffice, and GOG work fine for me.
      I own games, not rent them by the grace of a corporation's whims.

  • by thoper ( 838719 )
    this should cost no more than $50. a chromecast or similar has the nessesary hardware.
  • First we spent one billion converting all the applications to JavaScript and make them run on a distant server

    Then one more billion to integrate the webserver in the browser and make them run in electron

    One more billion to have electron run on a server, but this time it's different because it'll send back pictures instead of text

  • And.. it doesn't. Overpriced terminal device.
  • Why? At that cost, and even at $120 [amazon.com] or less, people could buy something that can both run Windows directly and stream it too. You can even get a Dell Optiplex Mini PC running Windows for less than $150.

  • ... are belong to us. And your spreadsheets, documents, photos, browser history, online purchases, porn habits, etc. Ain't it great to "own nothing, and be happy"?

    If I was a Windows user and I saw this latest nail being driven into the coffin in which my computing independence was going to be buried, this would be my personal YoLotD. Happily, I embraced that event for myself circa 15 years ago and never looked back. I wish others both the sense and the good fortune to enjoy a similar emancipation.

  • It wants its X terminal back.
  • They need to work on their device naming though. If I would have created it I would have called it a "Thin Client".

  • Just get the cheapest raspberry pi and a vnc client instead.
  • Welcome to 1970s timesharing. The computer is down.

  • This should be priced like a phone: $350 "unlocked" with the ability to use the OS of your choice, or heavily discounted (like, $0) if you use it as Microsoft intends: As a terminal for their not-so-cheap cloud service.

  • This just sounds like running Citrix on any old thin client or desktop PC.

  • seems like another Chrome OS or Netbook.

    I definitely see this as meant for large corp's.
  • I'm glad Larry's Network Computer [wikipedia.org] is finally getting another go of it. Still surprised Apple hasn't tried again [wikipedia.org].

The use of anthropomorphic terminology when dealing with computing systems is a symptom of professional immaturity. -- Edsger Dijkstra

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