Do Electric Cars Offer 'Fake Shifting, Real Fun'? (theverge.com) 314
The Verge is applauding Hyundai's electric SUV, the IONIQ 5 for "Fake shifting, real fun." And others agree. "The Ioniq 5 N is also special for how it simulates the 'feel' of gear shifting," writes the blog Inside EVs, "including the jolt and brief interruption in power that happens and the mechanical resistance that's normal upon downshifting.
"The Ioniq 5 N also simulates engine sounds through the speakers, will let you rev the 'engine' while parked and has a 'redline' you'll hit before you need to shift again. It's all great fun." [E]very single person who drives the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N, whether they're a die-hard EV person or the most hardcore electro-skeptic, absolutely loves it. And they love the fake shifting most of all... Shut up and embrace the fake EV shifting, you nerds. Find some joy in your life for once.
And joy will definitely be on order with the new 2025 Kia EV6 GT. The U.S.-spec version of Kia's updated crossover made its debut [November 21] at the L.A. Auto Show. And while there's still a lot we don't know about it, we have power specs and one key detail: the EV6 GT now gets a simulated gear shift feature. "The GT's new Virtual Gear Shift feature enhances driving immersion by simulating gear shifts with visuals, engine sound effects, and a tactile sensation through motor torque adjustments," Kia officials said in a news release.
The Verge points out that Hyundai's Ioniq 5 N even uses speakers — both inside the car and outside — to broadcast the sounds of ignition, a boosted EV sound, and a third sound which "sounds like a robotic version of a fighter jet." Paired with the seemingly endless power and torque offered by the electric motors, I couldn't stop grinning. It's just like a little kid making car noises as they push a Hot Wheels car around a track, but combined with the driving experience in the Ioniq 5 N, it just taps into a pure enthusiast joy. Even kids around my neighborhood stopped and looked when I started the Ioniq 5 N up with the sound management turned on. They'd pull out their phones to take photos and videos as I drove off, happily faking the internal combustion engine experience and knowing I wasn't adding a drop of carbon to the atmosphere.
The Ioniq 5 N just might be the performance EV that will change self-described "auto enthusiast" minds about the electric transition. It's that good.
"The Ioniq 5 N also simulates engine sounds through the speakers, will let you rev the 'engine' while parked and has a 'redline' you'll hit before you need to shift again. It's all great fun." [E]very single person who drives the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N, whether they're a die-hard EV person or the most hardcore electro-skeptic, absolutely loves it. And they love the fake shifting most of all... Shut up and embrace the fake EV shifting, you nerds. Find some joy in your life for once.
And joy will definitely be on order with the new 2025 Kia EV6 GT. The U.S.-spec version of Kia's updated crossover made its debut [November 21] at the L.A. Auto Show. And while there's still a lot we don't know about it, we have power specs and one key detail: the EV6 GT now gets a simulated gear shift feature. "The GT's new Virtual Gear Shift feature enhances driving immersion by simulating gear shifts with visuals, engine sound effects, and a tactile sensation through motor torque adjustments," Kia officials said in a news release.
The Verge points out that Hyundai's Ioniq 5 N even uses speakers — both inside the car and outside — to broadcast the sounds of ignition, a boosted EV sound, and a third sound which "sounds like a robotic version of a fighter jet." Paired with the seemingly endless power and torque offered by the electric motors, I couldn't stop grinning. It's just like a little kid making car noises as they push a Hot Wheels car around a track, but combined with the driving experience in the Ioniq 5 N, it just taps into a pure enthusiast joy. Even kids around my neighborhood stopped and looked when I started the Ioniq 5 N up with the sound management turned on. They'd pull out their phones to take photos and videos as I drove off, happily faking the internal combustion engine experience and knowing I wasn't adding a drop of carbon to the atmosphere.
The Ioniq 5 N just might be the performance EV that will change self-described "auto enthusiast" minds about the electric transition. It's that good.
shi..fting (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: shi..fting (Score:4, Funny)
what was the word of the year 2024 again? enshitification?
EnSHIFTication, perhaps?
Re:shi..fting (Score:5, Insightful)
Let these people have fun (Score:5, Informative)
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I think this is as silly as the Verge who reports this. A front outside speaker making some noise could be useful for pedestrians safety although.
Re:Let these people have fun (Score:5, Informative)
In most jurisdictions, EVs are required to emit some artificial sound, so that pedestrians, etc., can hear them coming. [US Federal reg here [federalregister.gov]] Without such systems, an EV cruising through a parking lot at a walking/jogging pace would be nearly silent, and a hazard to others. In many cases, these systems are only active up to 20-30 mph [32-48 kph]. Above that, ordinary road noise from air movement and tires on pavement is sufficient.
This has led to a flourishing of "sonic branding [google.com]" in the EV market: making your artificial noise sound distinct but not grating. Most are some variant of UFOs - overlapping pure tones, kinda like someone fell asleep on a pipe organ. Personally, I'd love for something like the Jetsons, although that may get old quickly.
Re:Let these people have fun (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Let these people have fun (Score:5, Interesting)
We have a chance to significantly reduce noise pollution in cities, finally. But no, lets mandate extra noise because some people can't be bothered to look up from their phones
The noise limits required to be emitted are lower than the natural road noise tires make travelling above 40km/h, incidentally that's also why they are only required to make noise at a low speed. I have a new EV that meets all the EU requirements for noise emission. Honestly the sound of the car is drowned out by a bit of wind. Don't be stupid.
Incidentally phones aren't the only issue. People without phones don't have eyes on the back of their head. Blind people don't magically see when you take their phones away. There's good reasons for generating *some* noise.
Re: Let these people have fun (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Let these people have fun (Score:5, Informative)
ICE cars use speakers too. You don't think the engine on that Challenger actually sounds like that do you? Modern engines don't have that deep, huffing, muscle -car sound people like so much, so they add it with speakers. They've been doing it for years.
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Re: Let these people have fun (Score:4, Interesting)
Look up BMW's ASD (Active Sound Design). My cousin's M3 had it and it was quite hilarious how switching between sport and eco mode made the car sound tougher even when just idling along. This has been used by many automakers, though for some (like Porsche) they keep it internal to the cabin (presumably to make the driver think their penis is bigger).
The issue stemmed from multiple things. Firstly car makers wanted to sound beefier, but the notable issue of tuning the exhaust pipe length sometimes caused performance drop in the engine. Secondly car makers realised not everyone wanted to sound like they are doing a V8 lap up Mt Bathurst while being stuck in traffic on the way from picking their kids up from school (seriously a friend of mine had a blowoff valve installed in his 4cylinder turbo car, as fun as it was on the race track, it sucked when you were stuck in traffic). Thirdly there's pressure from governments to reduce external noise so a system which could switch on and off helps a lot here, as does a system which would fake the engine noise for just the passengers in the car.
Re: Let these people have fun (Score:3)
That's different. You're talking about sounds inside the car, it sounds like the other guy is talking about sound played on exterior speakers. But maybe I misunderstood.
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I'd like to have it customized for the noise coming from the front speaker. Other people can have the Jetson's noise. I'd like to have the Beavis & Butthead "uh huh huh huh" giggling, or something different.
As for random features, instead of fake shifting, how about Mercedes style "bounce mode"? Something harmless to do when bored at the interminable rows of lights, and something that -might- help you get unstuck. Maybe even a factory wench for the front bumper to help get the vehicle out of muck, o
Wes Harrison (Score:3)
Steam Train whistle
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Maybe even a factory wench for the front bumper to help get the vehicle out of muck
No, the wench jumps up and down on the REAR bumper for that. Most of them don't seem to want to do that, though.
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If it's going to have fake engine sounds, I want rumble of a diesel-electric locomotive starting to move out.
I used to have the Peter Gunn theme on a USB key that played whenever I started the car but eventually got tired of that. I suspect the same will happen for the Ioniq's "features".
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Ahem (Score:5, Insightful)
no...
Shifting is not fun, it was just a way that car makers could produce cars cheaper...
I am from Europe and I grew up with shifting. The fun in BEV is the instant brutal acceleration and no shifting and adding the shifting delay is not fun!
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So they have nothing to compare it to but they feel like they are in a movie. Myself, I would find it grating.
Re:Ahem (Score:4, Insightful)
The only way I can imagine this being fun is if a person has never driven a stick shift in their life, and they watched a lot of F&F movies. So they have nothing to compare it to but they feel like they are in a movie. Myself, I would find it grating.
Agreed. I only learned to drive a manual in my late fifties - never had an opportunity before that beyond a few short stints behind the wheel. But it's FUN, and not because of the sounds it makes.
I question both the sense and the IQ of anyone whose amusement at "fake shifting" lasts much beyond five minutes. I like driving, and I like some arcade games - but I'd never want to suffer through experiencing both simultaneously.
If they want to go for verisimilitude though, they'd better include the "if ya can't find'em, grind'em" sounds that sometimes occur when you're occasionally klutzy - as I am - at driving a stick.
Re:Ahem (Score:4, Insightful)
Shifting is fun because it's hard to do well. You get a sense of accomplishment from it as a result. There is none of that with fake shifting. And if you made it hard that would be extra stupid.
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Even if you can do it well, in heavy traffic, it just sucks to be sawing on the gears. For a race car, or something that one takes to the highway and out of urban areas, a true manual might be fun, but for most areas, having it be handled by a vehicle computer is probably better, and less stress in general.
Of course, on ICE cars, having paddle shifting is nice, just to decelerate on the highway without having to hit the brakes. It used to be taught that slamming the brakes on the highway if there is no ne
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Even if you can do it well, in heavy traffic, it just sucks to be sawing on the gears.
Yes, and it actually sucks more if you have more gears. Even for just the dozen or so blocks of getting out of Eureka, it's irritating. But the rest of the time it's a lot of fun!
With that said, I would still happily give it up and drive an EV if it were practical for me, and I hope it is someday.
on ICE cars, having paddle shifting is nice, just to decelerate on the highway without having to hit the brakes. It used to be taught that slamming the brakes on the highway if there is no need is an indication of a poor driver.
And it certainly is. I don't see many people constantly over-accelerating and then braking, but if I do then I give them a wide berth and assume they are going to do something very stupid at a bad time.
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Even if you can do it well, in heavy traffic, it just sucks to be sawing on the gears.
Yes, and it actually sucks more if you have more gears. Even for just the dozen or so blocks of getting out of Eureka, it's irritating. But the rest of the time it's a lot of fun!
With that said, I would still happily give it up and drive an EV if it were practical for me, and I hope it is someday.
on ICE cars, having paddle shifting is nice, just to decelerate on the highway without having to hit the brakes. It used to be taught that slamming the brakes on the highway if there is no need is an indication of a poor driver.
And it certainly is. I don't see many people constantly over-accelerating and then braking, but if I do then I give them a wide berth and assume they are going to do something very stupid at a bad time.
That might also be a case of badly implemented adaptive cruise control. It can happen in places where the car in front of you changes lanes and another one takes his his place (at four leaf clover intersections for example), this causes the ACC to initially accelerate and then sharply decelerate when it detects the newcomer suddenly appearing in the lane in front of it. Even a car with a good ACC will decelerate pretty sharply as a precaution if another car cuts in front of it too close where a human driver
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That might also be a case of badly implemented adaptive cruise control.
It isn't. I know it isn't because they are braking repeatedly, which would cancel the cruise control. I know they are braking repeatedly because I can see their brake lights.
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Of course, on ICE cars, having paddle shifting is nice, just to decelerate on the highway without having to hit the brakes.
In an EV, you've got one pedal driving, so you don't have to hit the brakes to decelerate.
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Decelerating by taking your foot off the 'gas' and coasting is one thing. Decelerating by downshifting can get you slowing WAY down very fast. Without your brake lights coming on to warn the car behind you that you are slowing rapidly.
Pretty damn dangerous to those behind you. Please be careful doing this. I always keep half and eye on those following to make sure they see when I'm decelerating - and to take action when they don't
Re:Ahem (Score:5, Insightful)
Shifting is fun because it's hard to do well. You get a sense of accomplishment from it as a result. There is none of that with fake shifting. And if you made it hard that would be extra stupid.
Shifting isn't hard to do well, but it is quite rewarding.
The problem is, if you drive a manual, you need to be thinking ahead of what you're doing, not just reacting to what's happening around you and that is inimical to the modern driver who is lazy and reactive. They don't want to be engaged in the act of driving, they want to be as insulated from it as possible. Being engaged with the act of driving aving a feel for what the car is doing makes them uncomfortable.
I do agree that fake shifting is silly though, it's not providing any of the engagement you get, nor giving you any direct control.
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Shifting isn't hard to do well, but it is quite rewarding.
The problem is, if you drive a manual, you need to be thinking ahead of what you're doing, not just reacting to what's happening around you and that is inimical to the modern driver who is lazy and reactive.
In the part of your comment I quoted, you claim it's not hard to do well, then you explain only a part of why it's hard to do well.
Being engaged with the act of driving aving a feel for what the car is doing makes them uncomfortable.
Because they're not good at it, because it's not easy and they don't want to apply themselves. If they were good at it, they would be comfortable.
Anyway there's not actually wrong with not wanting to be good at shifting, these days a good transmission can shift a lot better than almost any person. And a good automatic can do what literally no other kind of transmission can do, i
Re:Ahem (Score:5, Interesting)
On another level, knowing a manual gives perspective on language, such as "stuck in neutral", "grinding gears", "jump start", "down shift" etc.
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Shifting is fun because it's hard to do well.
Shifting hasn't been hard to do well in a really long time. This isn't the 1940s. Gearboxes have synchromesh in them meaning literally any idiot can smoothly shift gears these days.
The most "fun" cars do away with all of that and have pedal shifters, with dual clutch semi-automatic gearboxes. There's nothing fun about getting a super electric car and artificially trying to turn it into a cheap European hatchback including artificially limiting its performance for that pointless exercise.
If you want the "fun
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It is silly, but some people like it, so Hyundai delivered. If you don't like it, you can simply not use that feature.
Some people like their car to feel "alive", like a beast to be tamed more than an effective but soulless machine. And therefore, they enjoy what reasonable people consider an annoyance, and why not? The point is to have fun, not to go from A to B, not even to win a race. And among the "fun" features you can add to a car, fake shifting is, I think, among the safest.
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It is silly, but some people like it, so Hyundai delivered. If you don't like it, you can simply not use that feature.
Some people like their car to feel "alive", like a beast to be tamed more than an effective but soulless machine. And therefore, they enjoy what reasonable people consider an annoyance, and why not? The point is to have fun, not to go from A to B, not even to win a race. And among the "fun" features you can add to a car, fake shifting is, I think, among the safest.
I agree about the need for fun. Manual shifting already exists with CVT vehicles. It is sometimes implemented as a paddle shifter, or just put it in drive.
My Jeep is hella fun. 9 "gears" to go through, 5 levels of FWD, freaky good traction control. It'll keep you entertained, and there are adrenaline rushes as desired. Fun offroad or even in winter roads, yet civilized enough that it works for date night.
Do you offroad? You sound like a candidate if you aren't already offroading.
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My Jeep is hella fun. 9 "gears" to go through, 5 levels of FWD, freaky good traction control. It'll keep you entertained, and there are adrenaline rushes as desired. Fun offroad or even in winter roads, yet civilized enough that it works for date night.
Plus you also get free random rubber ducks from other Jeep owners.
Re:Ahem (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I've watched a TON of reviews of the Ionic N 5 and literally *every* reviewer disagrees with you. It's not like most, or some ... every single review of this car puts a shit eating grin on the face of the person driving it. It's rare for something to be that unanimous among all journos in the arena of car reviews. If you think shifting is fun, then it's fun to be able to do it in this vehicle. If making a vehicle more fun to drive isn't "improving it", uh .. I guess that's an opinion one can have.
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I don't drive a car to have fun. I have other things to do to have fun. I drive a car because I am in one place and I need to be in another place. I realize that not everyone thinks this way.
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People play video games where you shift for fun. That's basically what this is.
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Anyone remember this one? "Real men drive automatics - let the gears shift for themselves"
He Abides. (Score:2)
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no... Shifting is not fun, it was just a way that car makers could produce cars cheaper... I am from Europe and I grew up with shifting. The fun in BEV is the instant brutal acceleration and no shifting and adding the shifting delay is not fun!
I grew up on manual transmissions and I disagree. In a commodity car, shifting isn't fun, sure. But in a muscle car or other high performance car? Shifting *IS* fun. And on top of it, it's a connection to the machine and the road. You feel the vibrations through the shifter, and it pulls you into the machine a bit. When you connect more, you pay more attention to both the machine and the surroundings.
Not that I don't enjoy the acceleration of the modern EVs that have decent performance, but if I wanted what
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
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My wife disagrees with you.
I learned to drive on a manual transmission vehicle, but I far prefer automatic transmission.
Whenever I have to drive my wife's car, it's fun up until I hit traffic... then it becomes not fun very quickly.
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It's the fact that you can have both a comfortable and easy to drive EV, and a fun sporty car with manual shifting (via paddles) in the same car.
It's not just the shifting of course, they set the car up to be fun. Stiff suspension and all that sort of thing.
B*ll*cks. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
B*ll*cks to fake engine noise. And b*ll*cks to that overrated blog known as The Verge.
True, fake ICE engine noise in an EV is just stupid. It's like those vegan 'meat replacement' products that supposedly taste like meat and feel like meat but are made of plant matter. If people want to go vegan they should go full vegan and not piss about with fake meat.
Re: (Score:2)
True, fake ICE engine noise in an EV is just stupid. It's like those vegan 'meat replacement' products that supposedly taste like meat and feel like meat but are made of plant matter. If people want to go vegan they should go full vegan and not piss about with fake meat.
They're not really for people who want to go vegetarian, they're just for people who want to cut back on the amount of meat in their diet. As for vegans, well, I think some of the companies stepped on a field mouse or something during the trip from farm to packaged fake meat, and that was the end of that. At any rate, it's not really analogous to EVs with fake shifting, because some of these modern meat substitutes are actually kind of tasty in their own way, depending on what sort of dish they're being i
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In what way is censorship involved?
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For the partially sighted,
... but not for the fully blind?
Your username sure checks out.
The saddest story on /. in a long time (Score:2, Troll)
If it were true, and not just a shill.
Not for me (Score:5, Insightful)
To quote Car and Driver:
I'm a simple man who has a Model Y. I press the accelerator and it goes fast. I don't need to memorize a manual for all of the modes emulating the combustion of ancient ferns or whatnot, and I don't care that it doesn't make noises like it's combusting said ferns for everyone to hear. I do care that it has something like 50% more range.
Re:Not for me (Score:4, Informative)
To quote Car and Driver:
I'm a simple man who has a Model Y. I press the accelerator and it goes fast. I don't need to memorize a manual for all of the modes emulating the combustion of ancient ferns or whatnot, and I don't care that it doesn't make noises like it's combusting said ferns for everyone to hear. I do care that it has something like 50% more range.
Good for you. This car - and article - aren't for or about you. The Ioniq 5 N is specifically designed for and marketed to people who want a performance vehicle. If that's not you... cool.
Now, context for what Car and Driver are talking about. The 5N has a lot of options, because different people want to do different things for different purposes. If you're looking to do rally-car tricks like Ken Block, there's a drift mode. You can also adjust torque distribution between front and back. If you're going on a race course, you can optimize the battery for performance or endurance. Both modes produce more power than general street driving, but the two let you choose how you want your battery to act. Stability control has multiple modes, as do the suspension and steering.
All of that has zero to do with the optional and sub-optimal e-Shift mode that simulates a transmission... which is not linked to the sound. So... you want a fake transmission? On/off. You want sound with that? On/off, volume. The end.
Fact is that the car is fun and very, very performant. Sure, if you're using it as a grocery-getter (like me) you're leaving a bunch of nerdy ability disabled. Okay.
Once again, this is the 5 N. For Nürburgring. The world-famous race track. Yes, it has less range than the non-N version. But if you don't want the toys, don't buy the version with the toys.
Full disclosure: I bought a 5N three weeks ago, because it's fun. I don't ever use the fake shifting or sound.
Not Fake Enough! (Score:2)
Vroom vroom! (Score:5, Funny)
I never learned to drive stick. Can I learn on one of these or will it not stall properly?
Re: (Score:2)
So as fake as the recent Jaguar Strap-On EV.
Can't fake below average reliability (Score:3)
When their consumer reports reliability score breaks out of the low 50s into the 70s then let me know about how great their cars are. Until then I'll stick with brands that are serious about what they are for instead of faking it.
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That would be impressive, because not a single brand has a score in the 70s: https://www.consumerreports.or... [consumerreports.org]
Hyundai/Kia is smack dab in the middle, which is hardly an inditement of their reliability. And of course, it's much more useful to consider reliability for specific models - Hyundai/Kia has a number models which score significantly higher (or lower) .. as does any brand .. depending on what vehicle you're considering.
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Maybe it's a US thing, because Hyundai and Kia are usually highly rated in Europe. They also have long warranties too - 7 years for most stuff, 8 on the battery.
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The Marching Morons (Score:5, Informative)
There was an old SF story called "The Marching Morons", which may have inspired "Idiocracy". It involved cars that went very slowly but, they had loud "vrooming" noises and fans to blow your hair back... so, I guess the question is, can we buy Teslas in fake wood paneling?
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Would you buy it for a quarter?
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One fun thing I like to do when I take a new person in a spin in my EV is make a "vroom vroom" sound when I drive around. It gets a good laugh out of them before I snap their neck back with the insane acceleration of a modern EV.
Funny enough I actually really like the *sound* my EV makes. When I put the foot down hard you can hear the motors spinning up, a sound almost identical to starting a large centrifugal compressor at an industrial plant. I actually like it far more than vroom vroom.
Naw (Score:3)
I can't wait until they emulate a donkey ride up a steep cliff with lots of rocks while a loud "Heeee Haaww" screeches from the speakers.
I bought an EV to be rid of fake shifting (Score:3)
My previous econobox was a '19 Nissan Versa with a CVT. It actually had some sort of fake shift points programmed into it to sort of simulate the feel of more traditionally designed automatic transmission. The reality of the experience though? It felt more like the CVT was just malfunctioning. I ended up doing some online research on this, and yes, Nissan really did program their CVTs to behave in this manner because they felt drivers wouldn't become accustomed to a CVT that actually acted like a CVT.
A little over a year ago, through a quirk of high used ICE car values, depressed used EV values, and the used EV tax credit, I essentially did an even swap to a Chevy Bolt that had a brand new battery installed due to the recall. Aside from the fact the car is a huge step up in just the amount of creature comforts it has (like heated seats, I'll be damned if I'll ever need that in Florida, but it has them!), it is so nice to step on the accelerator and feel the car actually just go. There's no hesitation, no obnoxious engine noise, no fake shift points, the car just goes instantly like something out of a video game and things in the rear view quickly become smaller.
I've never been a "car person" and everything else I've owned prior to the Bolt could be rightfully classified as budget econoboxes that are too slow to get out of their own way. To me, the near silence of the motor and instantly having 150 kW right under my foot is like I'm living the dream. I have no desire for any of the archaic legacy of the ICE experience to be part of my EV.
At least the EV manufacturers implementing the silly "fake shifting" and artificial "vroom vroom" noises are giving their drivers the option to turn the features off.
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The reality of the experience though? It felt more like the CVT was just malfunctioning.
If you had a Versa with a CVT, odds are, it was malfunctioning.
I ended up doing some online research on this, and yes, Nissan really did program their CVTs to behave in this manner because they felt drivers wouldn't become accustomed to a CVT that actually acted like a CVT.
Drivers generally don't become accustomed to a Versa's CVT that works, because they don't. They fail, a whole lot, even if people have kept up with their fluid changes. Whatever Nissan did, they did it wrong.
/owner of a Versa with a six speed manual transmission because I knew that CVTs in Versas are trash
//who wishes he had a place to charge an EV
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The reality of the experience though? It felt more like the CVT was just malfunctioning.
If you had a Versa with a CVT, odds are, it was malfunctioning.
I ended up doing some online research on this, and yes, Nissan really did program their CVTs to behave in this manner because they felt drivers wouldn't become accustomed to a CVT that actually acted like a CVT.
Drivers generally don't become accustomed to a Versa's CVT that works, because they don't. They fail, a whole lot, even if people have kept up with their fluid changes. Whatever Nissan did, they did it wrong.
/owner of a Versa with a six speed manual transmission because I knew that CVTs in Versas are trash
Not necessarily, some CVTs are programmed to hold a higher RPM depending on a few factors (throttle position, transmission mode, inclines) and will subsequently drop to lower RPMs for efficiency. Had this on a Toyota Corolla I hired a few years ago. to the untrained butt dyno, this can appear somewhat like the gear shift from an old school automatic (planetary gearbox). With this Corolla, if you gave it a bit of boot it would hold the higher RPMs until you eased off the throttle.
Not all CVTs are trash m
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some CVTs are programmed to hold a higher RPM depending on a few factors (throttle position, transmission mode, inclines) and will subsequently drop to lower RPMs for efficiency
That's not what I'm talking about at all. Vehicles with normal automatics do the same thing. For example I had an Audi A8 Quattro for a little while. It had a five speed ZF slush box with no transmission dipstick, fucking ZF pretended there was such a thing as lifetime transmission fluid. But let me forestall the rest of that rant and just say that the TCM had a map with literally hundreds of shift modes which it would choose based on your driving activity, so it would move the shift points around depending
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'19 Nissan Versa with a CVT
Probably should have done some research *before* buying that. Yikes.
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'19 Nissan Versa with a CVT
Probably should have done some research *before* buying that. Yikes.
I bought it new and figured I'd be rid of it before the warranty ran out. Seeing as how that went according to plan and I ultimately ended up with a Bolt with a brand new battery for the price of a bottom-of-the-line Versa, I think I did alright.
This is stupid (Score:3)
Why buy an EV that somehow tries to sound like an ICE and have some kind of fake shifting stuff? It looks like it's basically sound effects. So I guess it won't take long for someone to hack it and turn it into a loud-ass monstrosity that someone can blow down my street at 2AM. It's about the equivalent of blasting gangster rap music at that same time. "They see me mowin' my front yard, I know they're all thinkin' I'm white and nerdy!" White and Nerdy [youtu.be]
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So I guess it won't take long for someone to hack it and turn it into a loud-ass monstrosity that someone can blow down my street at 2AM.
No need, it is already a loud-ass monstrosity. The feature is literally offers the choice of pressing a button and getting a supercar sound. That said you won't get a replication of the sound a car makes when some 18 year old removes the exhaust pipe and puts a storm water downpipe in its place. The external speaker is too small to make any decent bass.
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Why buy an EV that somehow tries to sound like an ICE and have some kind of fake shifting stuff? It looks like it's basically sound effects. So I guess it won't take long for someone to hack it and turn it into a loud-ass monstrosity that someone can blow down my street at 2AM. It's about the equivalent of blasting gangster rap music at that same time. "They see me mowin' my front yard, I know they're all thinkin' I'm white and nerdy!" White and Nerdy [youtu.be]
Basically, Hyundai did it for the anti-EV reviewers.
Real drivers don't care, but the reviewers who have been complaining that EVs "don't have a soul" and the like are all experiencing la petite mort over this thing. If this is what it takes to get professional car reviewers who have influence to stop opposing EV adoption, let's take the win.
Nostalgic (Score:3, Interesting)
It is not electric, but, I just bought a Subaru Outback Wilderness with a CVT. It is my first car with a CVT, and I am disappointed that it has fake shift points. I have a turbo engine and could be enjoying seamless acceleration without them. The car is pretty quick and would be quicker if they didn't implement them. I read that they put the fake 8 shift points in because people did not like not having the feeling of shifting. Plus, it gives them a reason to put shifter paddles on my steering wheel, which I have yet to touch. So I guess it comes down to people don't like change, and having those shift points is a comfort/fun zone for the masses, but not the intelligent.
Mixed feelings... (Score:4, Interesting)
BEVs are required (at least in Europe) to emit some sort of quiet sound at low speeds, so that people here them. It would be kind of nice to be able to choose that sound.
That said: the key word is quiet. One of the really nice things about BEVs is the reduction in traffic noise. And the reduction in idiot noise, i.e., the people who think the whole world wants to hear their lack of muffler.
tl;dr: I hope they mostly pipe the sound into the car, leaving the rest of the world in peace.
Re: (Score:3)
It is such a badly construed regulation. My car is before the requirement and I will miss the peace when I have to replace it. A ~50dBA sound is fine when parking, but the blaring low speed noise is just stupid-- how much noise does the average ICE make coasting at 15mph/25kph?! Why should an EV be more?!
No different than bragging about your Fleshlight. (Score:5, Informative)
Fake shifting an EV degrades its performance, has no purpose and requires no skill.
Re: (Score:2)
Now for me as a 'hot hatch' style, the new Renault 5 EV [renault.co.uk] and it's considerably souped up sibling the Alpine A290 [alpine-cars.co.uk] are more interest, but I'm not going begrudge someone a bit of retro-fun if they want it.
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Not really. There are countries where the hatchback is what most people drive.
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There's a good review of the Ioniq 5 N on The Fully Charged Show where they go into this. Honestly it's not the main bit of the car, but if someone
while at it... (Score:2)
Could it also emulate the behaviour of a horse drawn carriage? Including horses bolting ofc.
Re: (Score:2)
Next up: They simulate a horse defecating on the road! Just like the old days!
Torque vectoring next (Score:2)
Artificial noise, surge and de-accel notwithstanding, call me when Positrac, limited slip and open diff torque is implemented to put real into all the AI dog and pony show
Engine sounds (Score:3)
The Ioniq 5 N also simulates engine sounds through the speakers,
ICE cars have been doing this for a long time as well. On my F150 I used Forscan (3rd party "hacking" tools to change various module settings) to disable the fake engine sounds that come out of the speakers. The Ecoboost 3.5 twin turbo has tons of power, but is very quiet, so they added V8 type engine sounds that play in the cab. Broncos do that as well.
Re: (Score:2)
The Ecoboost 3.5 twin turbo has tons of power, but is very quiet
If you're lucky, sure. FordTechMakuloco (sp? not sure) on Youtube if you want to get scared.
Designed by idiots (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What next? Let you fill it up with gasoline for nostalgia?
You can already do that with any EV if you live in Florida during hurricane season. [reddit.com] It's very nostalgic indeed.
Fun but somewhat OT (Score:2)
I currently drive a stick-shift and I have to say, I do enjoy driving it more than an automatic. However, if I got an electric car, I wouldn't want fake shifting because that's silly.
What I do want is a small car (currently own a tiny little Honda Fit that I will drive until it finally bites the dust.) Why are car manufacturers pushing everyone to SUVs and other enormous vehicles?? Oh, right... higher profit margins for them...
Simulate always being out of the powerband... (Score:2)
My Escape hybrid does this, I don't know if it is to simulate an automatic transmission or because that is how the ICE is optimized for efficiency - stepping the engine through controlled rpm ranges is probably easier to optimized efficiency than a true variable rpm.
I honestly don't like the stepped or simulated shifts, if I have it in sport mode I'm there for best performance, no
Automotive fakes all around (Score:2)
Summary has a great line for /. (Score:2)
Shut up ... you nerds. Find some joy in your life for once.
I want faked Carburetor on my EV (Score:2)
While you're at it... (Score:2)
... why not have a separate pedal for each wheel's brake? It would require lots of skill and no doubt be great fun.
So does this emulate the feel correctly ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Given a sequence of corners that you might drive through on a journey, say 40-50mph corners on a 60mph road the way you drive round these is very different in each car. The electric cars lack the correct feel imo. Disclaimer, have not yet driven a porsche taycan.
A manual ICE typically you run at the corner, lift of the gas, roll into the corner in gear, often already at a lower gear to induce engine retardation, and transfer weight, then ease on gently round the corner to balance and then and push down on the exit, often then changing up a gear.
The Tesla has this regen when you lift the accel pedal that makes it slower and the median point is with the pedal partially pressed, where it is not acceling or decelerating. This means you have to drive essentially with your foot always on the pedal to some degree and you approach the corner, modulate your foot up slightly, such that you get the weight transfer , balance it, and then press firmer on the exit. This maintenance of speed and accelerate on exit takes some practice, and is a similar but different skill to pushing a manual ICE round the corner. The tesla will never free roll, or allow you to take you foot of the pedal, this is like a brake that you modulate by lifting rather than pressing. (yes you can config hold,creep or roll in the settings but not while driving and lets be real 'hold' is THE way to drive a tesla) Tesla drive train is actually very opposite to convention but most people seem to adapt.
A hyundai ev has a different system there is configurable regen levels using the paddles, all the way down to no regen (freewheel). Which means that you can approach a corner, lift your foot off and it will roll into the corner, you can then gently apply accel on the exit. Very nice. But to emulate the engine retardation to get the weight transfer effect, you need to apply the brake , which in the initial phase activates increasing level of regen before applying physical brakes, so you can modulate the regen effect. Or you can use the paddle to click down a to stage 2 or 3 regen which acts more as you would expect (not as strong as tesla regen). But you can't click it back down to no regen off while accelerating with the pedel.
It is the closest to a 'gear' feeling system in an ev i have used since you can change the regen level on the fly. But it doesn't really have 'in gear' it always feels like either 'neutral' or 'lower gear' are the options. I could see a benefit of effectively making the paddles act a little more like flappy paddle gear boxes and have the same effect. It kicks in the brakes lights at leve 2 or above which i don't like.
Also strange to note is that when you drive at a lower level of regen, you need less gas to achieve same feeling of forward push, if anything this should be reversed (so a lower 'gear' provides more push' or just have it configurable. With a switch.
don't miss those things (Score:5, Insightful)
One of the best features of an EV is the smooth driving, just continuous power. I don't miss the noise either.
Have fun playing yestertech pretend. I'm going to sail by quietly and smoothly.
Who is this for? (Score:4, Interesting)
Colorful Kibble for Gearheads (Score:3)
This whole "fake shifting, real fun" thing reminds me of how dog food companies used to shape and dye kibble to look like gourmet stew—entirely for the benefit of humans, since dogs are colorblind and couldn’t care less. Simulated gear shifting, engine sounds, and redlines? That’s just the automotive equivalent of colorful kibble: features designed to appeal to our nostalgia for internal combustion engines, even though the EV doesn’t need them at all.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for joy and "enthusiast experiences," but maybe tone down the Varoom-varoom! vibes next time. This post feels like it came with a Hyundai marketing budget attached—or at least a fresh coat of corporate-approved polish. Who’s really benefiting here?
I will never stop being amazed and amused... (Score:3)
...by people who like and buy stoopid crap.
I agree that they have the right to do it, but it's incomprehensible that they would want to.
A regular EV is near perfect as-is, without silly reminders of the past.
I never understood nostalgia for inferior tech.