Some Passengers Riding in Waymo's Driverless Cars Face Uncomfortable Situations (msn.com) 128
Alphabet's Waymo robotaxis are providing "hundreds of thousands of driverless rides each month," reports the Washington Post. But as the robotaxi service expands in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Phoenix and Austin, some passengers "have found that traveling by robotaxi can make riders into sitting ducks for a new form of public harassment."
The Washington Post spoke with four Waymo passengers, three of them women, who said they experienced harassment or what felt like threats to their safety from people who followed, obstructed or attempted to enter a driverless vehicle they were riding in...
Elliot, a tech worker in San Francisco, recalled in a phone interview a "scary" situation during a Waymo ride late one night in October. A pedestrian tried to enter the driverless vehicle as it waited at a red light. "Go away," Elliot yelled at the man as he knocked on the window before briefly flashing what looked like a knife, video of the incident viewed by The Post showed... In the moment, Elliot said, he wished someone could have "slammed on the gas and gotten away from this guy," adding that Waymo should change how its vehicles respond in such situations...
Madelline, a 25-year-old restaurant server in San Francisco, said that during a recent Waymo ride at around 2 a.m., the driverless vehicle had to stop after two drivers ahead began yelling at each other and throwing things out of their cars in what appeared to be a road rage dispute. The two cars blocked an intersection and one person got out of one of the vehicles. "I was definitely panicking a little bit," Madelline said, as her car waited for the road to clear instead of turning off as a human driver might do... She would like to have more control over a robotaxi's route but still prefers Waymo rides to using Uber or Lyft, whose drivers sometimes make her uncomfortable...
In September, Amina V. was on her way to a hair appointment when a man stepped in front of her robotaxi and the car stalled in the middle of the street. She already had been recording herself in the Waymo, so she turned the camera to capture the man hitting on her while her car stood frozen in San Francisco's Soma neighborhood.
And one Saturday night at 10:30 p.m., a tech worker named Stephanie took a driverless Waymo robotaxi with her sister, and reports confronting "several young men close to the robotaxi honking and yelling, 'Hey, ladies — you guys are hot.' If she or another human had been driving, it would have been easy to reroute the car to avoid leading the pursuers to her home. But she was scared and didn't know how to change the robot's path. She called 911, but a dispatcher said they couldn't send a police car to a moving vehicle, Stephanie recalled... [S]he said the other car gave up the chase when the Waymo was a minute from her house. She and her sister arrived home safely, though terrified. Stephanie didn't catch the car's license plate number, which the 911 dispatcher requested after her ride concluded. Waymo vehicles, like other driverless cars in development, use multiple cameras to help make sense of the world around them. But when she later asked the company for the car's video footage, hoping it had captured the license plate, Waymo declined to provide it, she said.
She would like closer coordination between Waymo and first responders and says she is now unsure about self-driving rides after dark. "I would feel safe taking it during the day," Stephanie said. But "at night, maybe I'm safer having someone else in the car just in case something happens."
A Waymo spokesperson told the Washington Post that their support agents will stay on the line with riders who call in about incidents like this, also working with law enforcement as appropriate — but the agents can't change the vehicle's specific route. (The Post adds that Waymo passengers "can tell a vehicle to pull over or change its next stop or destination using the Waymo app, or ask a support agent to make similar changes.")
Elliot, a tech worker in San Francisco, recalled in a phone interview a "scary" situation during a Waymo ride late one night in October. A pedestrian tried to enter the driverless vehicle as it waited at a red light. "Go away," Elliot yelled at the man as he knocked on the window before briefly flashing what looked like a knife, video of the incident viewed by The Post showed... In the moment, Elliot said, he wished someone could have "slammed on the gas and gotten away from this guy," adding that Waymo should change how its vehicles respond in such situations...
Madelline, a 25-year-old restaurant server in San Francisco, said that during a recent Waymo ride at around 2 a.m., the driverless vehicle had to stop after two drivers ahead began yelling at each other and throwing things out of their cars in what appeared to be a road rage dispute. The two cars blocked an intersection and one person got out of one of the vehicles. "I was definitely panicking a little bit," Madelline said, as her car waited for the road to clear instead of turning off as a human driver might do... She would like to have more control over a robotaxi's route but still prefers Waymo rides to using Uber or Lyft, whose drivers sometimes make her uncomfortable...
In September, Amina V. was on her way to a hair appointment when a man stepped in front of her robotaxi and the car stalled in the middle of the street. She already had been recording herself in the Waymo, so she turned the camera to capture the man hitting on her while her car stood frozen in San Francisco's Soma neighborhood.
And one Saturday night at 10:30 p.m., a tech worker named Stephanie took a driverless Waymo robotaxi with her sister, and reports confronting "several young men close to the robotaxi honking and yelling, 'Hey, ladies — you guys are hot.' If she or another human had been driving, it would have been easy to reroute the car to avoid leading the pursuers to her home. But she was scared and didn't know how to change the robot's path. She called 911, but a dispatcher said they couldn't send a police car to a moving vehicle, Stephanie recalled... [S]he said the other car gave up the chase when the Waymo was a minute from her house. She and her sister arrived home safely, though terrified. Stephanie didn't catch the car's license plate number, which the 911 dispatcher requested after her ride concluded. Waymo vehicles, like other driverless cars in development, use multiple cameras to help make sense of the world around them. But when she later asked the company for the car's video footage, hoping it had captured the license plate, Waymo declined to provide it, she said.
She would like closer coordination between Waymo and first responders and says she is now unsure about self-driving rides after dark. "I would feel safe taking it during the day," Stephanie said. But "at night, maybe I'm safer having someone else in the car just in case something happens."
A Waymo spokesperson told the Washington Post that their support agents will stay on the line with riders who call in about incidents like this, also working with law enforcement as appropriate — but the agents can't change the vehicle's specific route. (The Post adds that Waymo passengers "can tell a vehicle to pull over or change its next stop or destination using the Waymo app, or ask a support agent to make similar changes.")
Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:5, Interesting)
Hm... sounds like having an emergency button to hit would be good. Like the telephones in elevators, an early adoption of unmanned travel, or something like the onstar button in gm cars.
Then give the agents more power, like switching to a remote driver.
Re: Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:2)
Unless you are in an area with no signal.
The car needs to do better without relying on remote operators.
Re: (Score:3)
Once D2C satellite service is available in earnest, this will no longer be a problem.
Starlink D2C is already operational. Low bandwidth, but this is enough for signaling an emergency.
ASTS will get there in 1-2 years as well.
Re: Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:2)
When would a Waymo ever be in an area without signal? Seriously, at this time,these vehicles have a defined area they are allowed to operate. I'm pretty sure I cannot hail one to drive me to Yosemite.
Re: Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:4, Informative)
There are no driverless taxi services operating in the US without always-on connectivity. Where they exist, it's only within a handful of dense urban areas. If you know differently, please provide links.
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These are robottaxis, not personal vehicles, as stated they are limited to specific locations that do have good signal.
Now, a tower could go out or be overwhelmed, but that would affect calling 911 as well, and a car can have a much bigger antenna placed in a better location with more power. Sort of like the cell phone repeater I installed in my truck for North Dakota, where I often only had one bar. The extra height and size of antenna gave me drastically more range.
Basically, don't give up on a 90% solu
Re: Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
sounds like having an emergency button to hit would be good
There's an emergency button on your phone.
Unfortunately for the hypothetical you, the nearest cops are probably already busy harassing a homeless veteran for sitting two inches past the allowable part of the sidewalk.
Re: (Score:3)
My phone doesn't have an explicit emergency button. The benefits of a button in the car is that it can connect you to a waymo specific operator immediately, and pass them information like who you are, where you are, which car you're in, where you were picked up, where your destination is, etc... They should be able to immediately access information from the car.
If I call 911, they're still going to need to call Waymo.
Basically, it seems much faster to be able to hit the button, go "they're trying to break
Re: (Score:2)
My phone doesn't have an explicit emergency button.
It probably doesn't have a dedicated emergency button, and it may not even have a physical one, but I assure you that unless it is some hacked up Linux jobber with a custom interface it does have one.
It's true that an in-car emergency button would possibly produce a more targeted response, but what is the response supposed to be? If it's something that could get the company which owns the vehicle into legal trouble, they will be hesitant to use it.
Re: (Score:3)
Worst case they can just call the cops themselves while giving all the location information. Reroute the car to meet the police, etc...
Re:Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:4, Informative)
"It's true that an in-car emergency button would possibly produce a more targeted response, but what is the response supposed to be?"
The most obvious thing, if it's not possible for the passenger to take control of the car and evade the trouble, would be for a remote operator to hook in and do so.
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I agree that's most obvious.
What happens if they cause an accident in the process?
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and will having that button make the passenger be on the line for getting an DUI?
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Not if all it does is connect you with a company operator.
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Waymos have just such a button, labeled "Call support."
Re:Sounds like having a button would be good (Score:5, Informative)
You can't even hail a Waymo without using the app on your phone, let alone unlock the door when it arrives. Hence, you will not be riding in one without a phone and will always have the option to call 911. You can also call 911 from within the Waymo app, and dispatchers will connect 911 operators with the actual vehicle you are in (along with precise location information). Finally, all cars have a "Call support" button on the passenger interface inside the car that will connect you with human support.
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The human support is the part I was thinking about - they'd be the ones with the power to do things with the car like changing the destination. I don't want people to have to be fumbling with their phone in an emergency situation, or at least have an alternative.
911 might be able to get the police there faster, but would have a harder time controlling the car, so best to have both parties on the line - 911 and Waymo support.
Re: (Score:2)
Hm... sounds like having an emergency button to hit would be good. Like the telephones in elevators, an early adoption of unmanned travel, or something like the onstar button in gm cars.
Then give the agents more power, like switching to a remote driver.
Considering the potential for lag and bandwidth issues and the restricted visibility a remote driver is a great way to end up running over someone and generating a fatality.
A better approach would be an emergency button where a remote agent has options including:
- Telling the car to get out of there.
- Patching into a loudspeaker telling folks they're being recorded and to bugger off.
- Calling the cops if necessary.
Re: (Score:2)
They already have those options, well, maybe not the 2nd, but the people in the car should be able to yell out.
The remote driver is where it's serious enough that vehicular homicide might be a valid option vs losing the passengers.
Re: (Score:2)
They already have those options, well, maybe not the 2nd
From the summary:
She called 911, but a dispatcher said they couldn't send a police car to a moving vehicle, Stephanie recalled.
and
A Waymo spokesperson told the Washington Post that their support agents will stay on the line with riders who call in about incidents like this, also working with law enforcement as appropriate — but the agents can't change the vehicle's specific route. (The Post adds that Waymo passengers "can tell a vehicle to pull over or change its next stop or destination using the Way
Re: (Score:2)
Well, looking at your very quotes:
"a dispatcher said they couldn't send a police car to a moving vehicle" - this was a 911 dispatcher, not a Waymo support agent.
"also working with law enforcement as appropriate" - to me this means calling the cops.
"ask a support agent to make similar changes." - the support agent can change the destination, and thus the route.
"Get out of there" is hard to do if people are blocking the car in. Thus a remote driver to assess the situation and make the "least bad" decision.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, looking at your very quotes:
"a dispatcher said they couldn't send a police car to a moving vehicle" - this was a 911 dispatcher, not a Waymo support agent.
"also working with law enforcement as appropriate" - to me this means calling the cops.
A Waymo support agent talking to the 911 dispatcher could have a script for dealing with that exact scenario.
"ask a support agent to make similar changes." - the support agent can change the destination, and thus the route.
"Get out of there" is hard to do if people are blocking the car in.
Again, in this case "blocking in" could simply be the person standing too close so the Waymo stops. And "changing destinations" probably means the Waymo has to drive forward. Backing up and doing a U-turn is a manoeuvre they may want to enable in only supervised special circumstances.
My mentioning the remote driver potentially deliberately running people over was in response to your "great way to end up running over someone", that could be an intended option if it is bad enough. I know that there's a whole range of stuff possible before that.
The point is that the remote driver isn't sitting in some perfect real time driving simulator. They have grainy video,
Re: (Score:2)
A Waymo support agent talking to the 911 dispatcher could have a script for dealing with that exact scenario.
Probably should, though figuring out that they need one might take an incident happening. Safety regulations are generally written in blood, after all.
Again, in this case "blocking in" could simply be the person standing too close so the Waymo stops.
Well yes. Which means that getting the person OUT of the situation might involve moving the car despite the risk of it hitting or running somebody over. Personally, I think that having a human taking closer control is for the best in that situation.
The point is that the remote driver isn't sitting in some perfect real time driving simulator. They have grainy video, a potentially laggy connection, and a poor understanding of blind spots. The remote driver is much more likely to cause an accident than the Waymo.
Which is why we don't have them take over unless it's something that the self-driving system can't handle. T
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Or throw the creeps in jail.
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A good option for preventing future incidents, but the current one needs handling.
Concealed Carry (Score:2)
Concealed Carry and law will be needed to allow people to have there own gun in an robo taxi
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In September, Amina V. was on her way to a hair appointment when a man stepped in front of her robotaxi and the car stalled in the middle of the street. She already had been recording herself in the Waymo, so she turned the camera to capture the man hitting on her while her car stood frozen in San Francisco's Soma neighborhood.
Recording herself to post on the internet, then complains about being hit on? Sounds like mental health issues. Wished they could have floored it and sped off? That sounds dangerous for bystanders. If this person has a drivers license, they need to be more in control of their emotions for all our safety's sake.
While some of these examples are questionable, it does bring up important concerns. Waymo should have more security features on these cabs. Maybe tinted windows? A large lock/unlock button to be abl
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe the people in these examples would be less afraid if they were able to defend themselves by carrying a gun. For women, its the ultimate equalizer.
Just how stupid are you?
A firearm for self defense isn't stupid. (Score:2)
Not stupid, a different educational background.
A car is a 1.5 ton bullet, it presents a lot of options to get out of a situation if you're willing to drive aggressively.
A self-driving car takes this away. To the point that it's already been used in a horror movie spoof.
Having a firearm returns options to the passenger, like he said.
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Statistically, guns make you significantly less safe, not more safe. Get a fucking clue.
I know that you gun-humpers like to pretend that you're some combination of Rambo and Jason Borne, but that's pure fantasy. If you want to play dress-up, fine, just don't expect anyone else to take you seriously.
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LOL! I love how you've already found an excuse to dismiss any evidence I could present. Pathetic.
This is from one google search. Not that it will make any difference. You can lead a magat to evidence but you can't make 'em think.
Secondary
1 [rand.org]
2 [bradyunited.org]
3 [thetrace.org]
4 [giffords.org]
5 [everytownresearch.org]
Primary
1 [nber.org]
2 [nejm.org]
3 [repec.org]
4 [oup.com]
5 [wiley.com]
I can very easily provide more. Sorry that reality disagrees with your bullshit!
Re: (Score:2)
Congratulations, you just proved blahabl's point about biased sources.
You can lead a magat to evidence but you can't make 'em think.
If you think I'm a magat, you need to get your vision checked.
Just checking the NEJM link:
Also, case households more commonly contained an illicit-drug user, a person with prior arrests, or someone who had been hit or hurt in a fight in the home.
I think this identifies the problem. Ever consider that people at greater risk of violence are more likely to get a gun?
True/false: If the occupant of the car being assaulted has a gun, do they have more options to respond?
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LOL! Even when confronted with mountains of evidence against your bullshit, you cling to any tiny thing you can to make yourself feel better.
Pathetic.
Sorry, kid. Reality disagrees with your bullshit. Get with it or get over it.
Re: (Score:2)
True/False: If the occupant of the car being assaulted has a gun, do they have more options to respond?
Sort of both. Not sure why people have to get mad at each over over this.
Carrying (CCW) is a legit right, but it comes with responsibility and training. The 2nd amendment gives us a particular right, but in an organized society I'm okay with a certain level of required training and licensing. I've held CCW for 5 years in California. Every 2 years have to renew. At least where I went through training and education it was quite valuable beyond basic common sense (general gun permit is just common sense).
If yo
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Sorry, kid. Reality disagrees with your bullshit. Get with it or get over it.
Again with the vision problems. I'll agree, with your vision you shouldn't be carrying a firearm. Pepper-spray maybe.
You're the one clinging to your biased sources.
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You can pretend my sources are bias if you want. Just like you pretend that you're a super soldier when you dress up in your little "tactical" outfits. That won't change reality.
Guns make you less safe, not more safe. That's reality. The evidence is overwhelming.
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Man, the projections you have. I mean, who is making assumptions left and right about the other party? I just snark about your presumed vision because you're so wrong.
For example here: I have never presumed to be a super soldier. I own zero "tactical" outfits.
However, I have carried a M-16, M-4, and M-9. I have worn level IV body armor. My outfits at the time were actual military uniforms.
If you think guns make you less safe, that is fine, don't own any.
Re: (Score:2)
No real arguments from me, though I think that if the government is going to mandate training, it should pay for it.
I've held a ccw in 4 different states, training quality is variable, ranging from my military ID bypassing it completely, to a joke that literal blind men have passed*, to being a pretty useful class.
I've mentioned pepper sprat elsewhere as an option.
Also I'm the one that opened up with having a button and support agents with more options as a primary, rather than suggesting a firearm first th
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A remote driver in a proper simulation setup would have more options. It's good to hear that they have a button to hit.
Basically, I don't want people to have to fumble for their phone in a stressful situation.
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Well, calling an operator is good, though I've read that the self-driving car initiatives all have remote driver capability, with the companies staffing at least one such office.
The voice operator suddenly driving your car is one thing, I'm picturing the remote drivers being in a simulation setup - multiple monitors, actual controls, like an airplane simulator or the car simulators where people get actual pedals and steering wheels mounted.
Of course, I'm something of a self defense advocate, so killing some
I guess nobody reports (Score:3)
the sicko, violent or perv taxi drivers anymore. There aren't many but they exist too, and have existed ever since taxis have been a thing.
The robot taxis come with their own set of new problems. That's why you hear about them.
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I'd suggest that cabbies who have to get police checks are a better bet than uber or lyft drivers who do not
not to mention how ridesharing companies have no local representation and care far less than local cab companies ever did
unethical people get the unethical businesses they deserve
Re: (Score:2)
I'd suggest that cabbies who have to get police checks are a better bet than uber or lyft drivers who do not
not to mention how ridesharing companies have no local representation and care far less than local cab companies ever did
unethical people get the unethical businesses they deserve
I gather that you are deeply confused, as you are suggesting that taxi monopolies are somehow more ethical than rideshares. The taxi business is deeply corrupt, and makes cab rides much more expensive than they have any need to be. There wouldn't even be rideshares if that weren't the case.
I wonder how many millions of dollars it takes to get a New York taxi medallion, these days...
Re: (Score:2)
I gather that you are deeply confused, as you are suggesting that taxi monopolies are somehow more ethical than rideshares. The taxi business is deeply corrupt, and makes cab rides much more expensive than they have any need to be. There wouldn't even be rideshares if that weren't the case.
I wonder how many millions of dollars it takes to get a New York taxi medallion, these days...
your need to be insulting and abusive speaks volumes about you, the truth hurts so you needed to lash out in retaliation
medallions were never worth that much, people have every right to expect a decent income, even cab drivers
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your need to be insulting and abusive speaks volumes about you, the truth hurts so you needed to lash out in retaliation
Where exactly was the insult and abuse?
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Where exactly was the insult and abuse?
Do you call people 'deeply confused' often? Insults are abusive, especially in public.
Re: (Score:2)
Noted! I didn't realize someone could consider "deeply confused" to be abusive. I wonder what the kindest way is to tell someone they are completely wrong is? Maybe "I'm sorry but..." used to be nice but it lost its meaning as it got cliched.
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the way to do this is to offer a counter-argument but since you haven't, it's clear your abusively trolling
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taxi drivers are just people trying to make a living, you sound like you need to insult me in an attempt to drag me down to your level troll
no thanks
how many people use taxis every day just fine?
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what we all see from you is more insults from an abusive anonymous coward, sure speaks volumes about you
violent or perv robotic taxi drivers (Score:4, Funny)
Wait until AI generates sicko, violent or perv robotic taxi drivers
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She specifically didn't mention taxis; she mentioned 'rideshares'.
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Police report... and... be armed (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're driving around in a vehicle you don't have any control of, that can stop anywhere at anytime for any pre-programmer reason...
1. Carry a firearm or other defensive weapon. Hope not to have to use it. If you do, be glad you have it.
2. If waymo won't release pictures with license plates or pictures of people WHO CAUSE YOU HARM or THREATEN YOUR LIFE OR SAFETY file a police complaint and let them say "no" to the local prosecutor.
That won't last long.
Any new or quote unquote "disruptive" technology has "disruptions" that occur outside of their stock value to idiot shareholders (Musk - talking to you, moron). They are also disruprive to normal people (which they call "passengers" as if somehow hundreds of millions of us no longer have any rights because we clicked on "I agree" on Waymo's EULA.)
Fuck waymo. Fuck EULAs. Fuck companies that put real people in these scenarios and then refuse to help (useless) law enforcement. And Fuck Musk. Richest moron in the world. Imagine how it would be to have more money than anyone... but to be a moron. Sad. Flowers for Algernon.
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"Musk - talking to you, moron"
What the fuck does Musk have to do with this? Waymo is a *direct competitor* to Tesla, AFAIK.
Is Musk Derangement Syndrome now a thing?
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Yes. It's been a thing for a while now. The meme is "weird nerds" jumping to that dipshit's defense at every opportunity.
Relax, weird nerds. He's just a rich asshole with serious self-image issues. He pretends to have an education that he verifiably does not have. Despite having adequate resources, he hasn't taken steps to earn the credentials he so clearly wishes he had. We can only speculate as to why, but my guess would be that he doesn't think he could do the work and doesn't want to embarrass him
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" He pretends to have an education that he verifiably does not have. "
Where?
When?
Has he called himself "Dr Musk"?
I don't ever see him as presenting himself as an entrepreneur, who ROUTINELY insists he's successful by hiring people "smarter than him".
Where do you get this bizarre claim to credentialism?
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Oh my... You poor deluded sycophant...
He claims to have a BS in Physics. He does not.
He claims to have dropped out of a Ph.D. program at Stanford. That didn't happen.
Find better heroes. Better yet, stop worshiping heroes altogether. You're not 12-years-old anymore. It's long-past time to move on.
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Imagine how it would be to have more money than anyone
The money is fake and valueless. It has power over the likes of you and me, but it has zero effect on those who actually run this world.
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1. Typical American response: feel the need to carry a gun, nothing like escalating a situation that so far has resulted in no one getting so much as touched to potentially ending up with someone shot and killed.
2. No one has caused anyone harm which is why no license plate files were released. Turns out calling someone sexy is not grounds for the police to start investigating.
The only thing clear here is that you shouldn't own a gun, you're way too unhinged not to shoot someone for doing something like pas
Simple Solution (Score:2)
Legal gray zone (Score:2)
Theoretically, the car could have a "Get me the F out of here!" button that makes it takes immediate evasive/self-protecting action. Probably they could even execute on it, too.
The problem is that the legal standing of a fully-driverless car is still hypothetical and never been tested in court. Even in case of your regular accident, assigning responsibility is not easy, let alone in such a nuanced case.
Outfit them with (Score:2)
Well, which is it? (Score:2)
Sexual assault problem (Score:2)
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It's a problem everywhere, though if you're trying to make a stupid political point, you might want to pick something else. Per capita Child Sexual Assault is far worse in red states than blue states [hhs.gov]. I'd need to do the actual analysis, but rape seems to follow the same pattern [worldpopul...review.com]. Red states also seem to have a serious murder problem [thirdway.org].
I'm sorry that reality doesn't conform to your preferred narrative. It must be hard for you.
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TFA didn't mention any children getting sexually assaulted either. I assumed they meant adult passengers like the one they interviewed. Have I missed something?
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I don't get your argument. What are red & blue states?
You are too stupid for this discussion.
Have I missed something?
Obviously. Find a trusted adult to help you.
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If you want to make some kind of connection between Waymo cars, sexual assault in San Francisco, child sexual assaul
Good (Score:2)
Fuck'em
I mean, technically... (Score:2)
every time you get into a car, driver, passenger or passenger with AI driving, you put yourself in a uncomfortable situation that is beyond your control. Some of these uncomfortable situations we even call "accidents" that were unintended and sometimes well beyond anyone's control to prevent.
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that Google has been very secretive with their data. For example, how often are the cars take over by remote control? That seems like an important thing to answer, but we have no idea. When Google does release data, it's always framed in a positive light (rather than a neutral, investigative tone). For example, the study you cited doesn't compare like to like, so it is not usable for evaluating safety of self driving cars to human cars. If Waymo's cars are actually safer, then Google should release the data that proves it.
As Google reports, self driving cars are harder than you expect [cnn.com]. If it works, great. Let's release it so everyone can use it. But don't pretend it works if it has major problems.(Note: We know it has problems, we just don't know how big they are [cnn.com]).
Murdering? (Score:5, Insightful)
Using emotive hyperbole just renders your argument null and void.
As for working pretty damn good - yeah, on wide straight US roads with light controlled 90 degree junctions. Good luck getting them to work in rush hour in for example Rome or Paris or even just on roundabouts or 2 ways streets with only room for 1 vehicle to navigate in a given direction at any time (very common in the UK) and as for the 3rd world with its often unpaved roads and zero discernable traffic rules forget it. The silicon valley based techo shills really have no idea and clearly neither do you.
Re:Murdering? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good luck getting them to work in rush hour in for example Rome or Paris or even just on roundabouts or 2 ways streets with only room for 1 vehicle to navigate in a given direction at any time (very common in the UK) and as for the 3rd world with its often unpaved roads and zero discernable traffic rules forget it. The silicon valley based techo shills really have no idea and clearly neither do you.
Yeah, any technology that isn't universally applicable right now is useless.
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Yeah, any technology that isn't universally applicable right now is useless.
Self-driving cars are billed as an end-to-end transport solution, but they are not that. They are easily confused in a number of common situations where no human driver would have a problem and the secrecy around how they are actually operated is unacceptable for vehicles operating on public roads in a test involving a public which does not have the opportunity to opt out of participation.
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"Yeah, any technology that isn't universally applicable right now is useless."
It is pretty useless except in tightly controlled situations and locations yet its been sold as being ready Real Soon Now. Until AI has a theory of mind and can predict what human drivers will do and also understands what they mean wrt hand gestures or flicking the lights in every given situation - it can vary - then they'll never replace a human driver in most parts of the world.
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As for working pretty damn good - yeah, on wide straight US roads with light controlled 90 degree junctions.
I take it you've never been to San Francisco, because that is not a description of any part of this city. Waymos work remarkably well here.
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I think a lot of problem is the binary view. People see to think we *need* to get to a point where all driving is automated.
Fact is machines are better about doing repetitive tasks correctly than humans. There is a lot of relatively repetitive driving tasks, especially ferrying people around cities. While the unanticipated/imagined event does come up from time to time, it might very well be infrequent enough that some customer service agent might resolve it. Ditto for soccer mom applications, and your com
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Umm, when Uber's self driving test car hit a pedestrian who illegally crossed a road 7 years ago, they almost went bankrupt. When Cruise self-driving car dragged a pedestrian that a human driver hit and pushed onto it, it almost ended GM. No way you're telling me FSD "gets hacked" and heads wouldn't roll for it. The evidence so far is that the public is on a hair trigger for autonomous vehicle deaths -- even in cases where someone else is at fault.
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False. Reference: https://sfstandard.com/2023/12... [sfstandard.com]
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This attitude just radiates from most of these stories. "This thing on this ride made me uncomfortable. But I still prefer this ride to those other rides, because they make me uncomfortable even more often".
Have you considered that your extreme neuroticism is the source of your woes, and not the type of taxi service you're using?
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This attitude just radiates ...
While that is certainly true, it is understandable for women to feel uncomfortable: She's minding her own business and she's harassed. That's not the problem: She's 'out-gunned' and probably out-numbered. If the men decide to escalate the problem, hardened glass, a seat-belt and a cell-phone are no longer sufficient protection. Assuming every arsehole will do the worst thing possible, is claiming victim-hood but everyone in an out-of-control confrontation, is easily traumatized by displays of violence.
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Since you're into the whole "who caused this" analysis, let's do it. Though will such an analysis convince anyone? No. Humans are inherently not rational nor logical, and one of the strongest drives we have is to protect females of our tribe from outsider males. And story is framed very well to present us with just this frame, so the first thing most people will get from it is initial emotional burst to protect the woman from the men she is complaining about. And most people are incapable of resisting this
Media narrative (Score:2)
Checking out the story for the victim, unsafe and usual group of appeals to emotion and the usual making a case for perpetual "victim crisis" narrative needing "someone else to take the first step to fix it"...
- Title - Robot taxi riders in San Francisco targeted with a new form of harassment
- News reporter name - Lisa
Repeated mentions of security, uncomfortable, fear and the usual bias setting keywords against media narrative marginalized groups
- Stephanie, a tech worker in San Francisco, was drawn to the
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Thank you good sir for doing the footwork I was too lazy to do. Sad to see my prediction to have hit a bullseye.
Needs an Ask Slashdot (Score:2)
Needs an Ask Slashdot:
What is the best way to get the news media to stop using the most emotional exhibitionists and self-promoting social media influencer posts as the basis for news stories?
Formula:
- Take 3 social media posts of appeals to emotion, victim narrative, helplessness
- Find 1 expert to quote
- Give a cascade of cliches without factual backup which further appeal to emotion, negatively stereotype or denigrate entire demographic groups
- Lead out with a "When is someone else going to take the first
Prince Charming Narrative (Score:2)
This is the Prince Charming Narrative of the person to be saved by Prince Charming
- Dependency mindset
- Expectations of rescue
- Framing their own choices as someone else's responsibility to fix
- Waiting, not acting themselves, for someone else of high social status to lift them up to a higher social status level without effort of their own
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We started to see this go into overdrive in the 1990s. At that point, aside from all the racial tensions that already existed, the powers that be decided that the topic de jour in the media was going to be "sexual harassment." I was in high school at the time, and I have to admit it was all very confusing. Living in the south, it was commonplace for people to show some common courtesy by holding doors open for people, and that kind of thing. But it got bad, because you always had some idiot who would be tri
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I remember 20 years ago, it was "stop abuse of women", with parenting, indirectly being under the spotlight. This year, our leaders claim abuse of women is the problem, again and the messaging is a forceful "it's all men's fault".
Strangely, I rarely see teenagers in mixed groups these holidays, so it's difficult to know when this abuse occurs.
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"The problem", eh? What a fucking joke!
LOL! Who declared "abuse of women" "THE problem"? Support your bullshit with links to reliable sources.
Oh, you can't? Because you're completely full of shit? Why am I not surprised?
Vague and non-specific bullshit might work in your weird little bigot circle-jerk, but it won't work anywhere else.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/aus... [yahoo.com]
https://edition.cnn.com/intera... [cnn.com]
https://edition.cnn.com/intera... [cnn.com]
The US likes to think it leads the world and it does: The rest of world doesn't suffer healthcare bankruptcies, dozens of children murdered at school, a hundred novels banned a year, elections driven by banning trans-gender people. But the US is lucky, this violence isn't an issue in the USA.
Just a political voting block (Score:2)
Arguing about who is the victim group and who ranks higher on the victim scale again is a distraction.
It's simply a way to build and keep a reliable voting block from the 52% of the population. The media, politicians, and corporations need most of that 52% scared and in need of saving to keep the economy going and win elections.
This is why 2024 was the first presidential election since the 1972 to have any appeal or party platform for men's votes, and only appealed to men in the last 2 weeks with a most mi
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In the 1990s, child-care institutions were complaining about the disappearance of male role-models. This year, past another wave of 'women are victims' rhetoric, human rights activists are admitting that women control all social institutions, no department or organisation puts men's needs first.
Gender flight (Score:2)
The disappearance of one gender from a workplace is usually called "Gender Flight", or in the case of men leaving an industry that increasingly becomes women dominated is called "Male Flight".
A few articles and blog posts on this with a common set of speculative 'reasons and causes' but miss the men
- expected to do extra and dangerous duties while not getting paid more
- men expected to work less desirable nights and weekend shifts
- overt harassment of men by women (google "male nurse harassment") in the wor
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You're completely full of shit. Even reddit wouldn't buy that bullshit story.
Also, it's obvious that not only do you not understand the problem, you don't want to understand the problem, and you have gone out of your way to not understand the problem.
0/10 What an unbelievably pathetic troll attempt. Try harder.
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You're completely full of shit. Even reddit wouldn't buy that bullshit story.
Also, it's obvious that not only do you not understand the problem, you don't want to understand the problem, and you have gone out of your way to not understand the problem.
0/10 What an unbelievably pathetic troll attempt. Try harder.
How do you breathe with your head that far up your ass?
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They even have a (PIT/TVI) maneuver for it that they train officers on road duty with
It's overused and incredibly dangerous. It needs to be banned.
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Crime is down nationwide. It's been on a downward trend since the 90's, with a little bump towards the end of the T*ump administration.
If you want to make a stupid political point, you should probably pick something else. Per capita crime is higher in red states than blue states.
I'm sorry that reality disagrees with your preferred narrative. Try believing more true things.