In Maine, Remote Work Gives Prisoners a Lifeline (bostonglobe.com) 54
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Boston Globe: Every weekday morning at 8:30, Preston Thorpe makes himself a cup of instant coffee and opens his laptop to find the coding tasks awaiting his seven-person team at Unlocked Labs. Like many remote workers, Thorpe, the nonprofit's principal engineer, works out in the middle of the day and often stays at his computer late into the night. But outside Thorpe's window, there's a soaring chain-link fence topped with coiled barbed wire. And at noon and 4 p.m. every day, a prison guard peers into his room to make sure he's where he's supposed to be at the Mountain View Correctional Facility in Charleston, Maine, where he's serving his 12th year for two drug-related convictions in New Hampshire, including intent to distribute synthetic opioids.
Remote work has spread far and wide since the pandemic spurred a work-from-home revolution of sorts, but perhaps no place more unexpectedly than behind prison walls. Thorpe is one of more than 40 people incarcerated in Maine's state prison system who have landed internships and jobs with outside companies over the past two years -- some of whom work full time from their cells and earn more than the correctional officers who guard them. A handful of other states have also started allowing remote work in recent years, but none have gone as far as Maine, according to the Alliance for Higher Education in Prison, the nonprofit leading the effort.
Unlike incarcerated residents with jobs in the kitchen or woodshop who earn just a few hundred dollars a month, remote workers make fair-market wages, allowing them to pay victim restitution fees and legal costs, provide child support, and contribute to Social Security and other retirement funds. Like inmates in work-release programs who have jobs out in the community, 10 percent of remote workers' wages go to the state to offset the cost of room and board. All Maine DOC residents get re-entry support for housing and job searches before they're released, and remote workers leave with even more: up-to-date resumes, a nest egg -- and the hope that they're less likely to need food or housing assistance, or resort to crime to get by.
Remote work has spread far and wide since the pandemic spurred a work-from-home revolution of sorts, but perhaps no place more unexpectedly than behind prison walls. Thorpe is one of more than 40 people incarcerated in Maine's state prison system who have landed internships and jobs with outside companies over the past two years -- some of whom work full time from their cells and earn more than the correctional officers who guard them. A handful of other states have also started allowing remote work in recent years, but none have gone as far as Maine, according to the Alliance for Higher Education in Prison, the nonprofit leading the effort.
Unlike incarcerated residents with jobs in the kitchen or woodshop who earn just a few hundred dollars a month, remote workers make fair-market wages, allowing them to pay victim restitution fees and legal costs, provide child support, and contribute to Social Security and other retirement funds. Like inmates in work-release programs who have jobs out in the community, 10 percent of remote workers' wages go to the state to offset the cost of room and board. All Maine DOC residents get re-entry support for housing and job searches before they're released, and remote workers leave with even more: up-to-date resumes, a nest egg -- and the hope that they're less likely to need food or housing assistance, or resort to crime to get by.
Re:But of course... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:But of course... (Score:4, Interesting)
It sounds reasonable until you realize that it's not paying for all of the expenses, with your tax dollars making up the rest, and that it would cost a lot less to provide actual public services that mitigate the need for prison in the first place. The would-be prisoners could still get a job and keep 100% of their paycheck instead.
The 13th Amendment abolished slavery but carved an exception for incarcerated people who were still allowed to be exploited for cheap/free forced labor. Prison labor is slave labor, because that's exactly how the system was designed from the start. We don't provide public services and housing that would reduce incarceration rates because we need that supply of prisoners to exploit and cut into someone's profits.
=Smidge=
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Re:But of course... (Score:4, Insightful)
America has the highest number of prisoners in the world and the highest incarceration rate.
Either Americans are the worst people on the planet or something's up with your justice system.
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> 15% of Europeans are victimized in crime annually
It is not obvious what "crimes" is defined as for this claim and a few minutes digging around the site doesn't turn up any other data.
However, you are directly and explicitly comparing it to violent crime in the US. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples here since I suspect the EU statistic includes crimes that would not be classified as violent in the US like burglaries, fraud, and vandalism.
=Smidge=
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> What makes you think that everybody in that prison is there because they couldn't afford to pay for housing and food from honest work
1) I never said "everybody"
2) Poverty is far and away the biggest predictor of criminal activity. Providing basic needs like food and shelter dramatically reduces crime. Or at least the kind of crime that people actually go to prison for...
And this is before asking questions like if nonviolent drug offenses should even be crimes...
> And, if providing more public servic
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3) It's been tried and it works... in other, more civilized nations... but again because America is an economy and culture firmly built on slavery and racism, and because Capitalism requires a supply of cheap exploitable labor, and because "ooga booga crime rates" is such an excellent campaign strategy, there is zero political will to actually address the problem.
Meanwhile, communism ensures there is a large supply of cheap exploitable labor.
Costs less to educate children (Score:2)
It's measuring the symptoms of an already sick patient instead of preventative medicine.
Back up and remove the federal funded incentives to split families, funnel poor children into foster care and the justice system first.
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2... [wbur.org]
- Daniel Hatcher, professor of law in the University of Baltimore’s Civil Advocacy Clinic. Author of Injustice, Inc.: How America's Justice System Commodifies Children and the Poor
- "So meanwhile, you know, what I uncover with John is while he's in t
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It sounds reasonable until you realize that it's not paying for all of the expenses, with your tax dollars making up the rest, and that it would cost a lot less to provide actual public services that mitigate the need for prison in the first place. The would-be prisoners could still get a job and keep 100% of their paycheck instead.
I'd love to keep 100% of my paycheck too.
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And there it is: productive inmates must pay the rent like the rest of the poor suckers who live paycheck to paycheck outside.
Is there ... some reason they shouldn't?
Re:But of course... (Score:4, Interesting)
>"Knowing the privatized prison system in the US, I was reading the story thinking "It's great but what's the catch?"
Only 8% of inmates in Federal and State prisons are in privatized prisons.
>"And there it is: productive inmates must pay the rent"
Why is that a bad thing? Unlike most of us, they are only contributing a meager 10%. You and I have to pay ALL our expenses, why should we have to pay for all of criminals' as well if there is a good way for them to contribute? Not only would it offset our taxes, it teaches a real-world truism and responsibility. Wouldn't it be great if even more prisoners could be taught useful/productive life skills and habits that could be used when they are released?
>"like the rest of the poor suckers who live paycheck to paycheck outside."
Because nobody outside prison should work or have to pay for their expenses either, right?
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In Soviet Canuckistan, the average citizen pays 42% of their income to the government. We grumble of course, but we love the services provided enough that we don't demand this setup change. And out of the remaining 58% we still have to pay municipal taxes. And then for rent and utilities and insurance and food and transportation.
10% for room and board is ridiculously low. I'd run a two-tier prison, and the prisoners who didn't make trouble and worked hard would get bigger, single inmate cells and their
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>"10% for room and board is ridiculously low. I'd run a two-tier prison, and the prisoners who didn't make trouble and worked hard would get bigger, single inmate cells and their own yard and mess hall. I'd let them buy access to a nicer visitor center. And they'd pay a lot more than 10% for these privileges."
Completely agreed with the above. You get what you incentivize. When you promote responsibility and good behavior and reward it, you get more of it. It is insane to just treat all the incarcerate
Re:But of course... (Score:4, Interesting)
> It is insane to just treat all the incarcerated the same, give them nothing productive/positive to do, and expect when they get out they will be better.
Well, there's library duty, kitchen duty, sometimes gardening. But no matter how good you are, you go back to that shared 8x10. You share a yard with everyone else, with only the most dangerous segregated.
The issue is that most people in the US and Canada see prison as a punishment. That is only one aspect of incarceration, and it should have the same goal as all the other aspects - to get the incarcerated into a state where they can be safely released back into society. That means they need the tools and opportunities to be productive citizens who can do more than live in extreme poverty shut out of 99% of civilization. Otherwise, every prison sentence should be a life sentence and then we might as well give up on the punishment part and make prison as comfortable as possible while they wait to die of old age. Or execute everyone on day one, depending on just how brutal a society you want to live in.
I say we should treat prison like a vocational school with some "special needs" aspects. Everyone inside has their lives managed and they are encouraged to go through routines until they can do them without the encouragement, then they get additional elements added to their routine.
They should be doing their own laundry, cooking their own meals, and have some kind of valuable productive labor to pay for whatever can be passed as a luxury in prison. That's where better meals, single-occupant cells, larger cells, extra visitation rights, and personal TV time come in in. Maybe even a nice vacation area they can go to for a week or two a year (if they can afford it by saving up from their earnings). A separate yard with a putt-putt course and a pool. Whatever.
Then (with assistance if requested), have them do their own personal budgeting and planning, have them file their own taxes. Run the system with prison bank accounts including debit and credit cards. Give them smart phones that only work on isolated prison Wi-Fi with access to those accounts.
Basically, replicate outside life on the inside. Make sure they can walk out the door and cope like anybody else.
Anyone who chooses not to participate (or fails to do so in a civilized manner) can always fail back to the standard shared cell and prison-provided meals and laundry service, all free of charge.
I'd bet most of them not only get with the program, but do so enthusiastically. And they'll start to self-regulate as a community, because someone who threatens their comforts will not be particularly well tolerated. Maybe use the inevitable conflicts as a way to show how de-escalation and conflict avoiding can be superior to a shiv. Or how being willing to call the guards when someone steps too far over the line is better than trying to handle it vigilante-style.
Earned valuable benefits are very motivating. Give people something to protect, and control how they can protect it effectively. And if the system uses their labour to cover the increased cost over basic incarceration, I see no issue with that.
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> The issue is that most people in the US and Canada see prison as a punishment.
When I worked in the military system, we were heavily taught that people were incarcerated *as* punishment and not incarcerated *to be* punished.
Of course, there were detainees who hadn't been convicted yet but the point remains the same. Being there is punishment enough. You don't need to add to that.
Also, our detainees were particularly well trained and adept at harming people. So, it was prudent to treat them with dignity.
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An excellent distinction, I'll try to remember it.
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> the prisoners who didn't make trouble and worked hard would get bigger, single inmate cells and their own yard and mess hall. ]
That's the whole place that they're in - but they do not have separate cells. It's housed on an old airforce base and doesn't even have a fence. It's for low-security inmates with a release date. You can spend quite a bit of time there if you'd like to (and follow the rules) but you have to have a release date to be there. I believe they also don't allow sex offenders.
It's a mi
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There are no private for-profit prisons (or jails) in Maine.*
Further, aside from work-release type programs for well-behaved inmates with a release date (and this program), no prisoners do for-profit work.
Inmates who do work in programs like this will pay a small percentage toward housing them and will pay owed child support.
As a Mainer, I'm not only okay with this program - I'm happy about this program. Gainful employment (and close friends/family making a support network) is one of the leading ways to red
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!0% isn't bad for rent (perhaps a bit high considering the quality of the pad). But what are the wages? And calling it "rent" when they don't have any choice is lying. If I don't like where I'm renting I can move. Call it a "service fee". Or call it garnishing of wages. "Stealing" doesn't sound quite right, but the lack of choice in the matter make it "sort of" appropriate.
Or one could call it enslavement. Roman slaves could earn money, if their owners permitted. A few earned enough to buy their fre
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>"Or one could call it enslavement."
Nice try, but it is not enslavement when they can choose to not work.
Let's also keep in mind THEY MADE the decision to be incarcerated by breaking laws. That shouldn't come without consequences.
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free doctors in the joint as well.
I think TX is the most at $100 MAX year co pay.
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"Rent" for an inmate is well over $60k. I doubt the remote workers are making $600k to be able to fully pay their cost of incarceration.
The program sounds interesting from an outcome perspective, but managing it to make sure it is not abused would seem to be quite a challenge.
And for snark: for everyone complaining about cubicles... it could be worse.
room and board (Score:1)
>"allowing them to pay victim restitution fees and legal costs, provide child support, and contribute to Social Security and other retirement funds."
How about to pay the State/taxpayers for room and board?
Re: room and board (Score:3)
Itâ(TM)s stated in the very next sentence.
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Yeah, I realized that right after I posted. Duh. Wish there was a delete post option.
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They pay 10% of wages to the state for 3 hots and a flop? Kinda cheap, what does it cost to keep a prisoner locked up?
So a prisoner making $60K/year pays $6K to the state? That's a token payment towards the tens of thousands it costs to incarcerate a prisoner each year.
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>"They pay 10% of wages to the state for 3 hots and a flop? Kinda cheap"
And electricity, heat, water, guards, laundry, healthcare, etc. I, too, think 10% is probably too cheap. But at least it is something.
>"what does it cost to keep a prisoner locked up?"
The median State expense is about $65K per year per prisoner.
>"So a prisoner making $60K/year pays $6K to the state? That's a token payment towards the tens of thousands it costs to incarcerate a prisoner each year."
Again, yep, but it is SOMETHI
Re: room and board (Score:2)
Again, yep, but it is SOMETHING, which is better a lot better than nothing. Also, I don't think many of the few that are actually doing this program would be earning $60K/year. But also keep in mind they will pay income taxes to the Fed and State, and that also helps to offset expenses. And the employer taxes as well.
Every outside job a prisoner takes is one less job a non-criminal can get.
The state and federal taxes you mention would also be paid by non-criminal, making that 'benefit' non-existent.
I'll concede this is good for the few convicts that a) have marketable skills, and b) have a suitable work ethic - I contend most (not all) convicted criminals lack skills that would allow them to work remotely, and those that lack the necessary skills are very unlikely to gain them while in prison.
Conflating all kinds of issues... (Score:4, Insightful)
So the fantasy is someone committed a serious crime to provide themselves with food/housing, got caught, went to prison, learned a skill/trade, worked remotely from prison, made wages superior to those the guards earn, and when they leave, are less likely to re-offend?
Bulkshit.
Prisons aren't teaching unskilled workers high-paying jobs they can do remotely - these are likely cherry-picked highly-educated professionals that had high-paying jobs and valuable work skills before they were incarcerated and were somehow able to secure outside employment in their field while in prison.
I question the low charge for room and board in prison - all their food, clothing, housing, and medical needs are met I. Return for only 10% of their earned wages? That's quite a deal.
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>> are less likely to re-offend?
Sounds right to me. A person who can get a decent-paying job is less likely to resort to crime in order to pay the bills. People who were trained to make license plates? Not so much.
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That's quite a deal.
It kind of shows how awful America has become. A bunch of sad rejects on this forum talking about how great prison is because you have to pay so little to be incarcerated there. The keyword is incarcerated.
Prison is not a fun resort that is some sort of permanent vacation. Prisons are where they try to keep people permanently to exploit for free labor and provide as little as possible for those met needs.
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Well, how much will you pay for a no kitchen, no shower, 1 bedroom you have to share with big Bubba, and remember, you don't get any door-keys?
Yes, they should be paid by working inmates, like a reverse welfare cheque.
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So the fantasy is someone committed a serious crime to provide themselves with food/housing, got caught, went to prison, learned a skill/trade, worked remotely from prison, made wages superior to those the guards earn, and when they leave, are less likely to re-offend?
Bulkshit.
Prisons aren't teaching unskilled workers high-paying jobs they can do remotely - these are likely cherry-picked highly-educated professionals that had high-paying jobs and valuable work skills before they were incarcerated and were somehow able to secure outside employment in their field while in prison.
Who said otherwise? I assumed from the beginning that someone getting a principal engineer gig from prison was almost certainly a competent software engineer before getting convicted. That's not the point. The point is that allowing such a prisoner to work is better for the prisoner, better for the system and almost certainly better for society as a whole.
I question the low charge for room and board in prison - all their food, clothing, housing, and medical needs are met I. Return for only 10% of their earned wages? That's quite a deal.
Meh. Other than medical, maybe, I'm sure you could do the same if you were willing to accept the quality of the housing, clothing and food provided to p
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":Return for only 10% of their earned wages? "
It's not that they only owe 10% of their wages. Only 10% of each check can be garnished. It is applied to the balance they owe, and if they still have a balance when they leave prison 10% of their paycheck will continue to be garnished.
Great Writing Prompt for a Cyberpunk Thriller (Score:1)
Some obvious/traditional plot points:
- She was framed
- Fun side kicks
- Discovers some big conspiracy
- Escapes electronically/hacking in order to save the world.
- Has secret fortune she made online riding villain's coat tails.
- Seduction scenes
Only 10%!? (Score:2)
With only 10% covering rent, utilities and taxes I'm sure a lot of law-abiding people are doing the math on getting themselves locked up for a while to get their living expenses chopped down to a tiny fraction of what they were. Those numbers are practically impossible on the outside.
Also put this next to Terrafoam and The Stacks as another sci-fi dystopia housing option.
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Plot twist: "Given the seriousness of your crime, I sentence you to 8 years outside of prison paying market rent."
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"With only 10% covering rent, utilities and taxes"
It does not necessarily cover what they owe, 10% is just what they can garish from each check, but that can continue even after they are released if they still owe.
correctional officers get OT most IT staff does no (Score:2)
correctional officers get OT most IT staff does not
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The deal will detriorate over time. (Score:2)
The problem is greed will make this situation much worse. Greed is the root cause of many problems in today's world, and this program won't be immune to it.
The state will gradually increase the fee from 10% of gross pay to 90% of gross pay.
Business will stick its nose in the game and find ways to make a tidy profit of of this.
When it is 90% of gross pay, those who refuse to work will be punished. They can't be thrown in solitary confinement punishment cell (yet) for refusing to work, but they possibly could
Nice (Score:2)
People who work from the Prison office aren't going to be called to come to the real office when there's a new CEO.
White collar convict labor... (Score:2)
what a time to be a alive!
12 Years? (Score:2)
For intent to distribute synthetic opioids? That'll teach him to stay out of the Sackler family's territory.
Fuckin' Damn it (Score:2)
"I'm A free Man and i haven't had a conjugal visit in 18 months!"
Sneakers (Score:2)
Hacker in prison for a decade or so.