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'What If They Ban TikTok and People Keep Using It Anyway?' (yahoo.com) 64

Posted by EditorDavid from the Tikking-clock dept.
"What if they ban TikTok and people keep using it anyway?" asks the New York Times, saying a pending ban in America "is vague on how it would be enforced" Some experts say that even if TikTok is actually banned this month or soon, there may be so many legal and technical loopholes that millions of Americans could find ways to keep TikTok'ing. The law is "Swiss cheese with lots of holes in it," said Glenn Gerstell, a former top lawyer at the National Security Agency and a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a policy research organization. "There are obviously ways around it...." When other countries ban apps, the government typically orders internet providers and mobile carriers to block web traffic to and from the blocked website or app. That's probably not how a ban on TikTok in the United States would work. Two lawyers who reviewed the law said the text as written doesn't appear to order internet and mobile carriers to stop people from using TikTok.

There may not be unanimity on this point. Some lawyers who spoke to Bloomberg News said internet providers would be in legal hot water if they let their customers continue to use a banned TikTok. Alan Rozenshtein, a University of Minnesota associate law professor, said he suspected internet providers aren't obligated to stop TikTok use "because Congress wanted to allow the most dedicated TikTok users to be able to access the app, so as to limit the First Amendment infringement." The law also doesn't order Americans to stop using TikTok if it's banned or to delete the app from our phones....

Odds are that if the Supreme Court declares the TikTok law constitutional and if a ban goes into effect, blacklisting the app from the Apple and Google app stores will be enough to stop most people from using TikTok... If a ban goes into effect and Apple and Google block TikTok from pushing updates to the app on your phone, it may become buggy or broken over time. But no one is quite sure how long it would take for the TikTok app to become unusable or compromised in this situation.
Users could just sideload the app after downloading it outside a phone's official app store, the article points out. (More than 10 million people sideloaded Fortnite within six weeks of its removal from Apple and Google's app stores.) And there's also the option of just using a VPN — or watching TikTok's web site.

(I've never understood why all apps haven't already been replaced with phone-optimized web sites...)

'What If They Ban TikTok and People Keep Using It Anyway?' More | Reply

'What If They Ban TikTok and People Keep Using It Anyway?'

Comments Filter:

  • Does it matter? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Saturday January 11, 2025 @10:38AM (#65080867)

    Tiktok, youtube, whatever are not about "the people", they are about "monetization". As long as something is banned and therefore avoided by advertisers and not allowed to take in money, it won't pay its users, and they'll dissipate.

    • The value of a social networking tool is in the network of users, not in the networking software. People are on TikTok because OTHER people are on TikTok. (In the reducto ad absurdum case, t's completely useless if you're the only one on it)

      It's a positive feedback loop. If you make it hard for other people to get on TikTok, and only people who have enough tech sophistication to get around the gates are using it, it will die (or, rather, turn into a niche application that's essentially a secret clubhouse th

      • Re:The value is in the network of users (Score:4, Funny)

        by Mr. Dollar Ton ( 5495648 ) on Saturday January 11, 2025 @10:56AM (#65080915)

        "Networking" is so 2010... There is no tiktok user who is there to "network", everyone is there to get famous and rich.

        • I would imagine a legal entity in the United States that is a subsidiary of ByteDance with American users would join with an American user and just sue the federal government for violating their right to freedom of expression and the ban would get kicked anyway. SCOTUS will tell congress they cant violate the first amendment. They would have to legislate TikTok to run the service in the United States, or prevent the Chinese from accessing it, or force the algorithm to be reviewed by law, but whatever they d

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by HiThere ( 15173 )

            You have an unusual amount of faith in the Supreme Court. History seems to prove that they make their decisions mainly on political grounds, and then justify it by twisting the Constitution unreasonably. To pick a notorious example, why are the Feds allowed to ban you growing something on your own property for your own use? Because they wanted to make the ban, so they twisted it until they could.

        • "Networking" is so 2010... There is no tiktok user who is there to "network", everyone is there to get famous and rich.

          If there's nobody to view the TikToks, nobody's going to post them. They know they're not going to get famous and rich if only a dozen people are there to see their videos.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by keltor ( 99721 ) *
        Part of the reason for TikToks fame is 100% about advertisers giving them money and then them giving this money to a portion of the users. All users of any consequence are getting paid in real money.

  • This isn't about "the people". This is really about banning Tiktok from government devices. If you want to scroll your life away on stupid videos no one is going to stop you.

    • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

      by Rujiel ( 1632063 )

      "This is really about banning Tiktok from government devices."
      No it isn't. TFA calls into question the enforcement, why would the military need to rely on legislation for this? The ban is about preventing people from getting information outside of a curated bubble (the likes of whoch Meta's platforms provide), and Israel's lobby is a prime mover in the push. People on the left salivating for the ban are especially pathetic (becaude they should know better)

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by flink ( 18449 )

      If that was the case they would have just made a rule for government devices which is easy to enforce since they are locked down. Maybe an additional policy that bans it from your personal devices if you hold a collateral clearance. Banning it on mass is simple China fear mongering plus the desire to put in a wedge that allows further Internet controls. Pretty soon we'll have our very own great internet firewall just like the China everyone is fear mongering about.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Not all that easy, and it's not just government devices, it's devices on government property. Like military bases. Much of the hardware is personal stuff. (But, yeah, for that subset, the military could handle it themselves, if they wanted to.) But also embassies, and lots of other sensitive government owned areas.

        OTOH, typically they solve this kind of problem with massive overreach, and that may be what they've done this time. Then they'll engage in targeted enforcement (which is illegal, but they do

    • This isn't about a ban of Tiktok on government devices, that ban is already in affect. It really is about a ban of TikTok for regular consumers.

  • If they want to burn terabytes per second from servers outside the US without any income, they can feel free.

  • I've never understood why all apps haven't alread (Score:4, Informative)

    by Tomahawk ( 1343 ) on Saturday January 11, 2025 @10:52AM (#65080909) Homepage

    Because apps have access to now data on your phone that can be sent back. Websites can't see what other apps you have installed, for example. Or a list of all your contacts. What's apps need permissions due a lot of stuff, many of these apps will have more permissions to access stuff on your phone than you realise. And certainly more access than a website.

    Profiling. Customer data.

    Remember, YOU are the product, not the customer.

    • What is the commenter's rationale that the calculator app should be a remote website and not a local program running on the CPU in their hand?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by pr0t0 ( 216378 )

      Steve Jobs originally thought all apps would be web apps. But app stores can and do function as an advertiser and marketplace. People often search their app store for the app instead of searching the internet. It's the same reason why people crowdfund on Kickstarter or Indiegogo instead of just putting up a web site and asking for funding.

      Also web sites often employ advertising through networks, so it's not like a web app is a bastion of privacy. Users might even be safer using mobile apps than web apps, bu

      • well, excuse me for remembering "There's an App for that".
        Maybe Jobs thought apps would be web apps. The companies that I worked for at that time definitely did. But the Appification of the iPhone, then every application on every phone everywhere, happened. We (the techies) were in disbelief that the "open" web was being encroached upon by the "closed" apps... but that is what happened. The app store, is an app. People generally don't think beyond the sandbox.

        The hilarity of course, is the cyclic nature of
  • Web apps only advantage the company / person providing the app. Not the user. With the obvious exception of things that are only running locally using sensors Etc on the phone. Give me a website everytime.
  • The problem with the ban, it they are not enforcing it. Remove it from the store will stop new people but its going to take a long time for phone churn before its gone. Seems an easier way would be to force the removal of the app, but that seems bit Orwellian. I think requiring all ISP to block it would be a better route. Now still can VPN it and use it but most users are not that smart and when the masses leave they will just end up someplace else. Seems like great time for someone to comeout with a tiktok

    • should bitedance just change the name to toktik and would the legal rulling still apply?

      toktik... or lemon8 [slashdot.org]?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rujiel ( 1632063 )
      The main problem with the ban is that it originates from a bill of attainder that should have never been allowed through congress. But rules don't matter anymore in clown country.

  • The ban is because the US government can't get data from or manipulate content on the TikTok platform. They have full access to see, lock down or manipulate anything on Instagram, Facebook, X etc. We saw that with the Covid censoring and Biden laptop issues. TikTok does not let them have that level of access into the backend. That level of control is reserved for CCP. That should be a concern but really can't justify shutting down the entire system

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      We saw that with the Covid censoring and Biden laptop issues.

      Quite the opposite, we are seeing that with elona and zuck bowing to the convicted felon in the white house.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        Doesn't sound like the opposite. I believe the saying is "same shit, different pile" with the proviso that one pile was a declared emergency and the other is vague threats and intimidation.

      • The Trump Amicus brief is mostly about letting him make the decision. The Biden administration has already made the decision with regard to TikTok and Trump does not want the law to be deemed unconstitutional because he wants the power. The party of the president is irrelevant the Democrats did not have to vote for the law that puts us in this situation. They care about government authority not party.

      • You sure have a bad case of denial.
    • "That level of control is reserved for CCP. That should be a concern but really can't justify shutting down the entire system"

      I'm pretty sure a lot of people would disagree on that. I could be mistaken, but my impression is, that "concern" is the exact justification of this whole charade.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        I do not think so. I think the primary reason is that el Bunko got everyone "concerned" about China "manipulating" public opinion through control of ByteDance. This allowed all the McMaggots in Congress and even the Democrats to show how they truly "cared" about Americans. Apparently it okay for Xitter to become a right wingnik/Nazi billboard but those naughty Chinese, them are what we really need to worry about.

        And if el Bunko really cared about the Chinese, he wouldn't have his tat built there. So far he'

  • Forcing ISPs to block it is a bad idea, because what else will they force ISPs to block? Disinformation about Hunter's laptop, maybe?

    The thing to do is what they do with other illegal activity: seize the website, which is done by seizing the domain. Next time you access TikTok's IP address, you get a message from DoJ.

    • Assuming banning TT is a good idea, for sure removing it from the app store is ... ineffective. Blocking at the ISP level would be the best way to enforce such a ban, if indeed blocking use is the actual desired outcome. But it would be quite fast and easy to just poison the DNS at the ISP level and that would keep a large cohort of non-techies away.

  • Enforcing a TikTok ban is not going to be easy, but I think it is doable. Yanking it from app stores might slow down new downloads, but it won’t stop existing users or workarounds like sideloading. To actually curb TikTok’s influence is going to require a mix of approaches.

    I think the key is demonetization. Cut off ad revenue from U.S. companies and block payouts to creators, and you shrink TikTok’s ecosystem. Add financial sanctions to prevent ByteDance from operating through U.S. banks, and things will get serious in the ByteDance boardrooms (not to mention Beijing.) App store bans and financial restrictions together could deliver the biggest punch—stopping growth while starving the platform of cash.

    Network-level blocking sounds good on paper, but it’s messy to implement and easy to bypass. Data localization or algorithm audits? Legally thorny and harder to enforce. The real challenge is balancing national security with the economic fallout for U.S. based creators.

    The Act's broad language allows for a range of interventions to safeguard national security. Whatever enforcement mechanisms are chosen, there is going to be collateral damage and unintended consequences, but a combined approach targeting its growth and revenue is (probably) the most realistic way forward that would minimize the negative side-effects. If the collapse of Vine, mySpace, and Geocities is any indication, Tiktok influencers financially impacted by the ban will probably just relocate, dragging their momentarily disgruntled herds of followers with them.

    • Re:Enforcement won't be easy or consequent-free (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Rujiel ( 1632063 ) on Saturday January 11, 2025 @12:30PM (#65081051)
      Aside from my other objections to the ban, has it occurred to you that the cultural and technological reliance that the rest of the world has had on the US over the last few decades may reverse in the next 20-30 years, and that such bans that shut out competition will instead help other countries do the same with the US?

    • TikTok is a product of TikTok, inc. -a Los Angeles California, USA based corporation (owned by ByteDance of Beijing, China).

      ByteDance can open a new company in another country easily enough to continue providing similar services beyond the reach of the US government, but TikTok the US government can reach -physically and legally it is a US corporation.

  • Balkanization of Internet (Score:3)

    by RossCWilliams ( 5513152 ) on Saturday January 11, 2025 @12:31PM (#65081053)

    What we are seeing is one more step in the balkanization of the internet where what you have access to depends on where you live. You have China's "Great Firewall" and many other countries block particular sources. Now the United States is officially joining the fray, largely because our control of the larger internet is starting to slip.The "national security" demands against a single international communications network will continue.

    The extent to which the first amendment prevents that process in the United States is questionable. Our "right" to access will be decided by whatever five members of the Supreme Court decide we can access. We are seeing that now with TikTok.

  • This TikTok thing is all theater. TikTok is terrible for getting the same data that FaceBook, Snap, Instagram, and every other social media app gathers. I am sure that the Chinese Government is learning a lot from the dancing teenagers and stupid videos. If there is any security risk posed by TikTok it is that it will erode the average IQ of users faster than other social media apps.
    • and perhaps that is the objective?
      revenge for the opium wars?
      I heard that China plays the long game.
      • I personally think humanity is a lost cause due to social media anyway, and I see no way that TikTok makes that worse. I think the US Government mainly worries that they will not be able to strong arm TikTok as easily as they can an American company when they want to spy on US Citizens. I really do not believe that the motives behind the ban are on the up and up, but the government relies on scaring people to do what it wants to do.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Rujiel ( 1632063 )
      That's right, stick to your censored news slop trough. Good boy!
  • > (I've never understood why all apps haven't already been replaced with phone-optimized web sites...)

    Seriously, why didn't they start moving people to the web? I watch tiktok in the browser every day.

    • At a big cost they might be able to maintain some continuity for users with European and Asian servers. Long term it's unsustainable, no income and massive expenses.

      Even if Trump convinces congress to reverse course their business in the US will be massively disrupted regardless, they will have to start from scratch. If they lose at the supreme court, they are fucked.

  • Once Apple is forced to remove it from their appstore, the # of users is bound to dwindle over time.

  • (I've never understood why all apps haven't already been replaced with phone-optimized web sites...)

    Because people routinely grant apps permission to do anything and everything on their phone, including hoovering up their contacts.

    People with browsers, not so much.

  • I know, tiktok uses 80 and 443 and uses http protocols, but there's probably a way to distinguish tiktok traffic from all the other stuff.

  • (I've never understood why all apps haven't already been replaced with phone-optimized web sites...) Data collection and monetization, aka selling to advertisers and other high bidders. Browsers have gotten much better and allowing users to control their data or just collect and monetize it themselves.

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