Bonobos Can Tell When They Know Something You Don't (newscientist.com) 54
A study found that bonobos can recognize when someone lacks knowledge they possess and take action to help, demonstrating a basic form of theory of mind. This suggests that the ability to understand others' perspectives is evolutionarily older than previously thought and may have existed in our common ancestors to enhance cooperation and coordination. New Scientist reports: [W]e have been missing clear evidence from controlled settings that primates can track a perspective that differs from their own and then act upon it, says Luke Townrow at Johns Hopkins University in Maryland. To investigate this, Townrow and Christopher Krupenye, also at Johns Hopkins University, tested if three male bonobos at the Ape Initiative research centre in Iowa could identify ignorance in someone they were trying to cooperate with, and then gesture to them to help solve the task. On a table between the bonobo and an experimenter were three upturned plastic cups. A second researcher placed a barrier between the experimenter and the cups, then hid a treat, like a juicy grape, under one of them.
In one version of the experiment, the "knowledge condition," a window in the barrier allowed the experimenter to watch where the treat was placed. In the "ignorance condition," their view was completely blocked. If the experimenter found the food, they would give it to the bonobo, providing a motivation for the apes to share what they knew. Townrow and Krupenye looked at whether the ape pointed at the cup, and how quickly they pointed, after the barrier had been removed over 24 trials for each condition. They found that, on average, the bonobos took 1.5 seconds less time to point and pointed in approximately 20 per cent more trials in the ignorance condition. "This shows that they can actually take action when they realize that somebody has a different perspective from their own," says Krupenye. It appears that bonobos understand features of what others are thinking that researchers have historically assumed they didn't comprehend, he adds. The findings have been published in the journal PNAS.
In one version of the experiment, the "knowledge condition," a window in the barrier allowed the experimenter to watch where the treat was placed. In the "ignorance condition," their view was completely blocked. If the experimenter found the food, they would give it to the bonobo, providing a motivation for the apes to share what they knew. Townrow and Krupenye looked at whether the ape pointed at the cup, and how quickly they pointed, after the barrier had been removed over 24 trials for each condition. They found that, on average, the bonobos took 1.5 seconds less time to point and pointed in approximately 20 per cent more trials in the ignorance condition. "This shows that they can actually take action when they realize that somebody has a different perspective from their own," says Krupenye. It appears that bonobos understand features of what others are thinking that researchers have historically assumed they didn't comprehend, he adds. The findings have been published in the journal PNAS.
Do they shuffle the cups? (Score:2)
And who is paying for this?
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And who is paying for this?
Funding came from several sources. They are listed in the "Acknowledgment" section of the paper.
Here's the link: www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2412450122 [pnas.org].
Sponsors include John Hopkins University, a Templeton charity, and a Canadian institute.
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...that he is obsessed with moderation along with the multiple other things he is obsessed with!
Says the Slashdot user clearly obsessed with rsilvergun.
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My 1st thought was: did they show them so much footage of Trump they felt smart?
It's far cheaper and ethically accepted to experiment on primates so knowing the extent they are like us is useful. Also it tells you what is nature vs nurture since if they do it then it's biologically inherited. It's far better than putting an Orangutan in charge of humans.
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yeah:
> This suggests that the ability to understand others' perspectives is evolutionarily older than previously thought
It also suggests commander cheeto is stupider than a chimp
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I don't think so. He understands so many people are doing the cheating, stealing and dishonesty for him, he doesn't have to 'negotiate' with anyone. Ignorance of this fact is why so many people are surprised that Trump's racism, misogyny and blackmail affects them: They thought Trump had "perspective" when really, he had a brainwashed audience who would excuse any dumb shit he did, until was too late.
A few days ago, someone used the concept of Status Anxiety to explain the swing toward Trump. A fear o
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And who is paying for this?
Probably someone who doesn’t have a clue if you lack knowledge they posses.
Otherwise, they might have sensed just how many readers were thinking ”the fuck is a bonobo?” practically in unison.
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Donations. Just like how Eight Sleep donated AI-powered sleep pods to the DOGE office so that Elon Musk and his staff can work 24/7.
Slashdot commenters, on the other hand (Score:5, Funny)
*Always* think they know something you don't.
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Whereas on stackoverflow, they pretend they want to help but really only want to downvote your question to make themselves feel smarter
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I would rather work with bonobos.
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I see it differently: Human trust ideas like God and country will make people work together. Some apes and some simians trust sexual gratification will make 'people' work together. Also, slutty females means the males doesn't know which baby belongs to which fuck-buddy: Child-care becomes a group responsibility, which they're willing to do because, casual sex.
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I think you're saying we should fuck like Bonobos and send the babies to red states.
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Neither of which the "super intelligence" of AI can do.
Simple Explanation (Score:4, Funny)
The bonobo knows what it knows at all times. It knows this because it knows what you don't. By subtracting what it knows from what the you don't, or what you don't know from what it does (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The bonobo uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive you from a position where you don't know to a position where you do.
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By subtracting what it knows from what the you don't, or what you don't know from what it does (whichever is greater),
Are you suggesting bonobos can't handle negative numbers?
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The bonobo knows what it knows at all times. It knows this because it knows what you don't. By subtracting what it knows from what the you don't, or what you don't know from what it does (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The bonobo uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive you from a position where you don't know to a position where you do.
It’s probably a lot easier to assume that theory is true if you ensure that humans are already in a confused state of being at the very start.
You know, like calling them “bonobos”. In order to watch the higher primates run around with that the fuck is a bonobo look on their face as they wonder how big that deviation really is.
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A fancy way of saying "there's something in a bonobo that does that".
One thing's for sure, a bonobo does NOT "know what it knows at all times". No animal has that characteristic. This is raw stupidity in the classic /. tradition.
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It is actually paraphrasing a joke video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Oh, thanks for the notice Mr Knows About The Stuff.
Nas as in nasal, right?
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The first rule about PNAS is...
get a proper theory of consciousness ffs (Score:1)
when we finally decide to grow up and accept that life and consciousness are the same, stuff like this will seem a lot less mysterious. What WILL be mysterious is how fucking cruel we have been, as anyone who's seen those leaked abattoir videos will know. If we then come to understand that it isn't life that comes first in that equation, well, that does change the game a bit...
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I don't find how cruel we are at all mysterious, we put ourselves first, any organism/group that does not will lose to an organism/group that does. Its a survival mechanism. E.g. a lion that doesn't want to be "cruel" to its pray will simply die. Also do you think gazelle thinks of the poor grass its eating?
Should we try to change and be less cruel, sure, but do we need to beat ourselves up about and judge others for behaviors that evolved over thousands of years can't just be wiped away by being nagged at
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It's a low consciousness animalistic survival mechanism, yes, exactly. you almost understood! so close.
If you find what I said mysterious, you definitely don't understand the situation. (see how that's a rude and ignorant thing to tag on, aggressor? You're talking to a biologist)
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If you actually want to learn something you clearly aren't aware of, go read up on Stuart Hameroff's work on anaesthesiology and microtubules, and then watch any of Curt Jaimungal's recent vids on quantum consciousness to help you connect the dots on why it's plausible.
It's not a field most people are aware of; you, obviously, are "most people."
Good luck!
Probably goes back further than apes (Score:3)
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I suspect that any animal that lives in social groups whether apes, crows, dogs/wolves etc , needs some kind of theory of mind otherwise the social group simply won't function except as a loose collection of individuals. Eg lions hunting need to understand what the other lions are going to do in an upcoming attack, not just what they're doing at the moment.
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Agreed. This makes a lot of sense.
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What about ants? I know ants help each other out https://www.smithsonianmag.com... [smithsonianmag.com]. Or is it just directly reacting to stimuli.
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When I'm sad my cat brings me her toys. When she is hungry she paws at me and meows. When I'm angry, even when not loud and not at her she hides. When she is sick she wants to lay on you. When she is scared she wants to climb inside your shirt. She was pregnant when she was found and to this day has socks that she treats as kittens and brings into rooms where she intends to stay. If she wants to go do something else, she brings the 'kittens' to you and expects you to watch them.
She has spent quite a few hou
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"that researchers have historically assumed they d (Score:3)
Re: "that researchers have historically assumed th (Score:2)
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To me the only surprising thing about this is that the did an experiment to show its true. But that is what science is about, making assumptions and then showing them to be true/false.
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Whereas... (Score:1)
And they won't charge you, either.
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Hell, a bee flying back to the hive and doing a dance to instruct the entire hive where to find lots of nectar is essentially this - the one bee knows something it would be beneficial for everyone to know.
It goes both ways (Score:2)
I say dear boy (Score:2)
Bonobos? (Score:2)
I guess they only help if they are not busy rubbing one off.
I don't think this means what you think it means (Score:2)
"This shows that they can actually take action when they realize that somebody has a different perspective from their own," says Krupenye
Uh, no it doesn't. It shows that they can learn to point faster when the window is closed.
smarter than humans (Score:2)
Humans, on the other hand, routinely think they know something you don't, when actually they don't know something that you do.