Temperatures at North Pole 20C Above Average and Beyond Ice Melting Point (theguardian.com) 67
Temperatures at the north pole soared more than 20C above average on Sunday, crossing the threshold for ice to melt. From a report: Temperatures north of Svalbard in Norway had already risen to 18C hotter than the 1991-2020 average on Saturday, according to models from weather agencies in Europe and the US, with actual temperatures close to ice's melting point of 0C.
By Sunday, the temperature anomaly had risen to more than 20C. "This was a very extreme winter warming event," said Mika Rantanen, a scientist at the Finnish Meteorological Institute. "Probably not the most extreme ever observed, but still at the upper edge of what can happen in the Arctic." Burning fossil fuels has heated the planet by about 1.3C since preindustrial times, but the poles are warming much faster as reflective sea ice melts. The increase in average temperatures has driven an increase in fiercely hot summers and unsettlingly mild winters.
By Sunday, the temperature anomaly had risen to more than 20C. "This was a very extreme winter warming event," said Mika Rantanen, a scientist at the Finnish Meteorological Institute. "Probably not the most extreme ever observed, but still at the upper edge of what can happen in the Arctic." Burning fossil fuels has heated the planet by about 1.3C since preindustrial times, but the poles are warming much faster as reflective sea ice melts. The increase in average temperatures has driven an increase in fiercely hot summers and unsettlingly mild winters.
Oh noes! (Score:2)
I am purchasing a heat pump and an electric car.
Re:Oh noes! (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, let's start by figuring out how many jetliners alternate energy pimps purchased. We'll start at zero. And... go!
If you do find some, lets do some back-of-the-napkin calculations based on their travel miles, and see how much it matters.
If your point is to satisfy some biblical-style need of condemnation against what is most likely a fictional set of people, then have at it. But recognize that's what you're doing. It's nonsensical bluster.
And finally, let's make the assumption that what you say is true. Let's pretend environmentalists are in the habit of flying their private jets. How, exactly, does that invalidate their arguments? Hypocrisy doesn't imply being incorrect.
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Okay, let's start by figuring out how many jetliners alternate energy pimps purchased. We'll start at zero. And... go!
If you do find some, lets do some back-of-the-napkin calculations based on their travel miles, and see how much it matters.
Like measuring shit with the Couric scale, you’re so wrong we’ll probably end up measuring global hypocrisy in (Al) Gores.
Alternate energy pimps (Score:4, Insightful)
But this is just bait. You're trying to derail the conversation by focusing on hypocrisy because the left wing loves pointing out hypocrisy more than anything else. We would kill our own families for the joy of pointing out hypocrisy among right-wingers just like the right wingers would kill their entire family to protect them from The 34 high school trans athletes in America out of the 500,000 high school athletes in the entire country...
It's all just bait to derail the conversation.
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Do you mean like expending carbon in order to build a solar panel or a windmill? Is that also hypocritical?
No, these aren't hypocrisies, they're investments. You know, spend a little of what you want to save in order to earn back more than what you spent in the first place.
Re:Oh noes! (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you mean like expending carbon in order to build a solar panel or a windmill? Is that also hypocritical?
No, these aren't hypocrisies, they're investments. You know, spend a little of what you want to save in order to earn back more than what you spent in the first place.
Unless you're using the energy from the windmill to actively sequester carbon, you are not "earning back" any carbon, which is what the alternative energy is trying to save. Spending less carbon per unit of energy produced as compared to something like coal production is not a bad thing, but it's spending less it's not "earning back" no matter how hard you try to greenwash it.
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Not the north pole! (Score:2)
The free market panacea (Score:2)
You just have to keep going at it before Trickle Down works. 100+ years is far too short for us to give up on the experiment!
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22 trillion pounds of copper is about 5 months of the world copper production.
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There are no trillions in either your number, or mine.
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From 1 anecdote to another (Score:2, Interesting)
Where I am, along the 49th parallel, in the southwest of BC, the normal temp for this time of year is about 8C, now it's -7C, with a real feel of about -20C. I hate it and I would much rather be in Svarlbard right now. My furnace is running 24/7 almost to keep the temp near 21C, burning natural gas. Also, I have to warm my vehicle up for about 10 minutes, burning more gas. So I have to w
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The Polar Vortex has wobbled our way this season, weather changes, but of course we can't fail to blame the general warming trend and shame everyone every damn time the wind shifts.
Re:From 1 anecdote to another (Score:5, Informative)
The jet stream has been wobbling at least during the N. American winter, that's what allows the polar vortex to slip south on occasion. And the jet stream is weakening because of global warming. Do try to keep up, it isn't that difficult.
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I'm sure it's completely unrelated to the wandering magnetic North Pole or the magnetic excursion in the South Atlantic. Because we don't live on a giant magnet, which is definitely not like the other geomagnets in our solar system which are also experiencing similar changes to their weather.
You know, events we've got a historic record of occurring roughly every 6000 years, for which we are due.
You add "because of global warming", but that's unsubstantiated at best. You're talking about models and theories
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Just a couple of weeks ago, we literally had blizzard warnings for southern Louisiana...and I had 12" of snow just outside of NOLA proper....
Today...low 70's.
Interesting year for sure....hoping that since Mardi Gras is late this year (early March) we'll have some nice weather and can catch the parades in shorts and t-shirts....
Snow storm was fun and once in
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I live in the mid Atlantic, and it hasn't been particularly cold.
We had 1 week or so of permanent freeze where I am, and near record lows, but it hasn't been a particularly harsh winter overall.
The really weird thing I. My observation though is that my friend in Louisiana got more snow than us.
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Why are you stealing the North Pole's climate, and when will you be returning it?
The struggle is real. Where I'm at. It's been 10C here all week, and plummets to 7C at night. I realize this is supposed to be winter, and I appreciate the rain, but it's far too cold to ride a bike. My dogs won't even go outside unless they can put on a sweater.
P.S. my furnace's blower used run constantly and keep me up at night, until I replaced all the 1970's windows in the house with modern stuff.
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It's been 10C here all week, and plummets to 7C at night. I realize this is supposed to be winter, and I appreciate the rain, but it's far too cold to ride a bike. My dogs won't even go outside unless they can put on a sweater.
Man. I'd kill for 10C right about now. It was -5F (-20C) here yesterday morning. This time of year when it hits 10C (50F) you start seeing shorts and t-shirts outside walking around.
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Where I am, in northeast Illinois, The past January's average temperature was about 1.5C below the historical average of about -4C. But that's only the second month in more than 1-1/2 years that has been below average, so not at all an argument against the fact of global warming.
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Indiana here. I was out shooting clays in a long sleeve shirt and jeans last weekend when it was near 50F outside. I don't even know why I own a snow blower as I haven't really needed it the last 5 years. The weather has been very unusual here. Big temp swings and very dry. I'm not complaining though, I hate the snow.
Re: From 1 anecdote to another (Score:1)
Weather vs Climate (Score:4, Insightful)
What matters is how often these extreme fluctuations occur, not that they occur. Winter in Alberta typically sees fluctuations of +/-20C from the average because the air is so dry in winter. The evidence for climate change is that we seem to be getting far more +20C fluctuations that take us quite a bit over freezing than the -20C ones that drop us to -30 to -40C. It used to be that we got 1-2 weeks of -30C weather, now it's just a week or less. That statistical change is evidence of climate change not whatever the weather outside my window is today.
I realize that this is not as sexy and attention grabbing as focussing on weather extremes but that's the science, ignore it and you are doing exactly what climate change deniers are doing.
Re:Weather vs Climate (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Weather vs Climate (Score:5, Insightful)
It's "upper edge of what can happen in the Arctic". Where as being 20C below average where you're at is probably not an extreme event. But guess what, I live in California and I know all about the ice storms and winter storms hitting the East coast and northern mid-west. Because ... it is being reported on. Despite it being something I remember from my childhood in the Great Lakes area as kind of a periodic thing. I even remember going sledding on Valentine's Day with a girl.
The severity and frequency are both important. Hitting new records or approaching them is noteworthy. Doing it every 1-3 years is a cause for concern.
I realize that this is not as sexy and attention grabbing as focussing on weather extremes but that's the science, ignore it and you are doing exactly what climate change deniers are doing.
Dumbing down a news article for the masses is not the same as fabricating a data (or lack thereof) to support climate denial. The majority of readers are borderline science illiterate. Some journalists do a better job at explaining it than others. But it's kind of a hopeless cause. It's not reasonable to expect that most people will grasp a complex subject from a 1000 word article when they have no background in the subject matter.
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You had me going until you mentioned that a girl was involved.
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Roughly 50% chance that I would have a girl as a neighbor. Plus we were 10.
Mistrust of the Media (Score:4, Insightful)
Dumbing down a news article for the masses is not the same as fabricating a data (or lack thereof) to support climate denial.
This is not "dumbing down" it is claiming that one warm weather event is evidence of global warming which is the same as the deniers claiming that one cold weather event is evidence that global warming is fake. Neither of these arguments involves fabricating data but both rely on misinterpreting it and presenting it in a highly misleading fashion. The only way that this article could be said to be better than climate change denial is that it is at least trying to mislead people into believing something that copious amounts of evidence show is true....but it is still misleading them.
I'd argue that it is dishonest arguments like this that are actually driving people towards climate change denial because once you catch a media source misleading you about one thing you are not going to trust it enough to let it challenge your views on another issue making it much harder for you to learn and change your mind. This frankly justifiable, mistrust of the media is exactly why we have all these nutters disbelieving things from climate change to the fact that the Earth is a sphere.
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it is claiming that one warm weather event is evidence of global warming
Inaccurate summary of what was stated in the article. Most of the confusion is yours in trying to flip around the cause and effect, perhaps due to your own bias.
I'd argue that it is dishonest arguments like this that are actually driving people towards climate change denial
I assure you, the ignorant masses aren't running toward climate denial out of pedantic argumentalism.
They don't approach a problem and go: "Hey, this one side seems to be presenting the argument in a disingenuous way. I better support the opposite side because there are only ever exactly two sides to an argument."
media source misleading you about one thing you are not going to trust it enough to let it challenge your views
Trust in the media is a complex topi
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Inaccurate summary of what was stated in the article. Most of the confusion is yours...
There is no confusion here. To quote the article:
“This was a very extreme winter warming event,” said Mika Rantanen, a scientist at the Finnish Meteorological Institute. “Probably not the most extreme ever observed, but still at the upper edge of what can happen in the Arctic.” Burning fossil fuels has heated the planet by about 1.3C...
Similar switches from this event to talking about global warming and back to the weather event again occur multiple times in the article. Nortmal articles do not jump around between two unrelated topics like this so either (a) the author is being incoherent or (b) they are doing their best to imply that the two are strongly connected.
I assure you, the ignorant masses aren't running toward climate denial out of pedantic argumentalism.
That's not what I wrote: I said that they spot misleading articles like this - of a friend or colleague does and points it o
Re:Weather vs Climate (Score:4, Informative)
Can we please stop claiming that individual weather events are evidence of global warming? Where I am it is currently 20C below average but nobody is reporting that as evidence of global cooling, indeed they are not even reporting it.
What matters is how often these extreme fluctuations occur, not that they occur. Winter in Alberta typically sees fluctuations of +/-20C from the average because the air is so dry in winter. The evidence for climate change is that we seem to be getting far more +20C fluctuations that take us quite a bit over freezing than the -20C ones that drop us to -30 to -40C. It used to be that we got 1-2 weeks of -30C weather, now it's just a week or less. That statistical change is evidence of climate change not whatever the weather outside my window is today.
I realize that this is not as sexy and attention grabbing as focussing on weather extremes but that's the science, ignore it and you are doing exactly what climate change deniers are doing.
I'm also in Alberta. The +20C fluctuations are evidence of global warming, but weirdly enough so are the -20C ones.
Usually the jet stream keeps the really cold air bottled up in the arctic (the polar vortex), but when the climate warms the jet steam weakens and the polar vortex moves down south. Making us super cold and the far north relatively balmy.
I don't know if that's what's happening now, but super-cold winter weather can ironically be evidence for global warming.
Arctic melting (Score:3, Interesting)
All the climate change deniers should think about why Trump is suddenly so eager for the US to annex Greenland and Canada. It isn't because he doesn't believe in climate change; it's because he wants to accelerate it.
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Putin has some reason but he's political chess master so it's not easy to know... but then the randomness of Trump's game of checkers is not easy to predict either.
Re:Arctic melting (Score:4, Insightful)
Putin? A political chess master? What are you smoking? Their economy is in the pits, they lost their face and their bases in Syria, a tiny country like Ukraine has so far fought them to a draw. And China is looking across at Siberia wondering how much a bite it can get away with.
And if Putin wasn't la Presidenta's minder, he'd be in worse pickle.
Re: Arctic melting (Score:2)
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Putin is arguably richer than Elon. He doesn't care what happens to the country.
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He found a new shiny thing. He's going to build a resort in Gaza apparently.
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Cancel NOAA (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing to worry about. President Elmo and his lackeys will shut down NOAA so we won’t have to hear about this anymore. https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]
Now I may be wrong but can anyone from the party of law and order confirm that the legislative branch controls the budget and not an unelected immigrant?
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Nope, la Presdenta beat Elmo to it; she's installed the fellow who gave us "SharpieGate" back at the helm, bravely waiting to send hurricane tracking maps to the Oval Oriface for correction before being published. Presumably, the corrections will be more professionally produced this time around....red Sharpies this time.
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Nothing to worry about. President Elmo and his lackeys will shut down NOAA so we won’t have to hear about this anymore. https://www.theguardian.com/us... [theguardian.com]
Now I may be wrong but can anyone from the party of law and order confirm that the legislative branch controls the budget and not an unelected immigrant?
"Our thermometer is so much bigger and more advanced the any country (we have done a great job on this) that it shows more temperature. Without thermometer, or weak thermometer, we would be showing almost no temperature. Thermometer is a double edged sword - Makes us look bad, but good to have!1!"
- Trump on Xitter
sea-ice cover (Score:4, Interesting)
“We expect the Arctic Ocean to lose its sea-ice cover in summer for the first time over the next two decades,”
The Arctic has been warming much faster than the rest of the world and this is called arctic amplification (AA).
One of the main causes of AA is the loss of ice, which in turn amplifies the ice loss. The sea ice reflects solar energy back into space while open ocean absorbs 90% of it.
And then there is the question of what happens to the polar bears?
Re:sea-ice cover (Score:5, Interesting)
We know what happens to the polar bears, over time they will dwindle and succeeding generations will revert to their brown coats.
A bigger question is what happens to all that yummie methane stored away in the tundras of the N. Hemisphere. It is a very potent greenhouse gas, so its release will be a systems feed-forward pathway to even more warming.
Trump "meltdown": (Score:3)
..."Greendland? Where'd it go? Was just here! "
Cue the mouth breathers... (Score:1)
The day after tomorrow (Score:1)
Dennis Quaid has entered the chat.
Actual Science (Score:1)
Here you go, the biggest climate science paper this year:
Summer Sea Ice Returns to the Western Arctic after a 25-year Hiatus
https://www.researchsquare.com... [researchsquare.com]
This is somewhat bearish for the Northwest Passage sea route which really would save a gigaton of energy.
But do panic about a daily weather report and beg to pay more taxes to change the weather.
omg! (Score:2)
OMG! I'm ordering scuba gear right now for the coming deluge.
Is it bad enough .. (Score:2)
It can't be that bad. I'll wait.
Just the beginning⦠just wait (Score:1)