Nissan Set To Step Back From Merger With Honda 34
An anonymous reader shares a report: Nissan looks set to step back from merger talks with rival Honda, two sources said on Wednesday, calling into question a $60 billion tie-up to create the world's no.3 automaker and potentially leaving Nissan to drive its turnaround alone.
Talks between the two Japanese automakers have been complicated by growing differences, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. Reuters reported earlier that Nissan could call off talks after Honda sounded it out about becoming a subsidiary. Nissan baulked as this was a departure from what was originally framed as a merger of equals, one of the people said.
Talks between the two Japanese automakers have been complicated by growing differences, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. Reuters reported earlier that Nissan could call off talks after Honda sounded it out about becoming a subsidiary. Nissan baulked as this was a departure from what was originally framed as a merger of equals, one of the people said.
Nissan is delusional (Score:5, Informative)
Nissan baulked as this was a departure from what was originally framed as a merger of equals, one of the people said.
Nissan is not even in the top 5 Japanese automakers right now. The current top 5 are: Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Subaru, and Isuzu. In decades past, Nissan was at best #3. If they want to merge with Honda, they have to accept they are not equals.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, that's pride for you; and we all know what they say comes next.
The best season of the year!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
you can get a $9000 car from Mitsubishi (the Mirage).
The Mirage has been discontinued, so any still for sale are just leftover inventory. The sub-$20k new car market is dead in the USA. If that's as far as your budget will stretch, you're looking at used cars or alternate forms of transportation.
Re: (Score:2)
I can't comment on the US but here in Australia Mitsubishi is still decent and still sells well.
They were the #5 best selling car brand in Australia 2024 (behind Toyota, Ford, Mazda and Kia) with the Outlander medium sized SUV being the #5 best selling car in Australia (and the #2 best selling SUV behind the Toyota RAV4)
Nissan on the other hand were nowhere near the top of any list...
Re: Nissan is delusional (Score:2)
The 10 year warranty on Mitsubishi is a real draw for many people.
They also make good vehicles, the Outlander is extremely popular around here.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure how it is now since Mitsubishi discontinued the Mirage and Nissan jacked up the price of the Versa by quite a bit, but they used to sell the least expensive new cars available in the USA.
The other aspect is, usually a less popular brand has dealers that are more willing to negotiate. At least in my experience, Toyota dealers seem to be all out of fucks to give if you're not interested in paying full sticker, because they've got 5 more people lined up behind you to buy the vehicle.
Toyota salesm
Re: (Score:3)
Who's actually buying Nissans and Mitsubishis, and what is the rationale for this purchase decision vs. buying a Toyota or Honda?
Nissan finances you if you have a pulse. The rest are a bit more selective in who they finance.
Ghosn drove Nissan straight into the proverbial iceberg. They made good cars in the day. After the early 2000's, not so much.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
At this point, only senior citizens and ghetto rats are buying Nissans and Mitsubishis.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm surprised they're even still a thing in the US (along with Mitsubishi). Who's actually buying Nissans and Mitsubishis, and what is the rationale for this purchase decision vs. buying a Toyota or Honda?
Who you ask? How about everyone who can’t afford the premium price tag rotting on a new Honda or Toyota right now? Cost is the rationale. And they’re damn right about that whole Pride thing. Overpriced is the brand sitting and rotting on car lots. And Overpriced comes in all flavors. Delusional Dodge. Hilarious Honda. Toasted Toyota. No-Way Nissan. (Vicodin VW and Cocaine Chevy prove some price tags require an addiction to justify.)
Ford versus Ferrari? Not really, when they both come
Re: (Score:2)
In decades past, Nissan was at best #3. If they want to merge with Honda, they have to accept they are not equals.
I guess it was looking at the merger as a way to 'grow' again - kind of like a couple would, vs. parent and child.
Re: (Score:2)
I originally misread your comment as a joke on "grow like a mold". But I think that describes Nissan since the fiasco with Carlos Ghosn. Though more like a mold that is dying? The shrinking mold?
Anyway, my initial reaction to this story when it broke a few weeks ago was 'This is just a disguised takeover by Honda.' This latest news just makes it completely obvious--but I still wonder what Honda thinks they can salvage from the mess.
Anyone interested in the background history? Like when Honda was told to get
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Uh... [honda.com]
That said, I'm pretty sure this is one of those, "Oh, we need to have an EV to make lawmakers happy."
Re: (Score:2)
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I took my EV on a 500 mile 1 way trip over the holidays and the "To" time was 11 hrs (1 hour delay for traffic) and the "From" time was 10 hrs.
In the past it would normally take me 8.5hrs with my ICE vehicle.
A 4 hour drive in most EVs would require a single charging stop. According to this https://afdc.energy.gov [energy.gov]
Re: (Score:2)
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I took my EV on a 500 mile 1 way trip over the holidays and the "To" time was 11 hrs (1 hour delay for traffic) and the "From" time was 10 hrs.
2 days instead of 4 hours is indeed a gross exaggeration. Percentage-wise, the extra time in an EV isn't that much greater than with an ICE. However, it's far more convenient in the ICE due to not having to stop. For example, a typical trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles would take two recharging stops in a base Tesla Model 3, compared to one stop in an ICE (and zero stops in my 500+ mile range car). And those stops take 30 minutes. Yes, one could eat lunch during a stop but probably not a second lu
an argument over words? (Score:2)
Aren't "merger", "equals" and "subsidiary" just words? Compaq and HP merged, yet Compaq became a "subsidiary". Was that a problem for the combined company?
There is either more to this or it is pathetic. Lilkely both.
Re: (Score:3)
Aren't "merger", "equals" and "subsidiary" just words?
Aren't all words just words? :-)
Thor: I need to go to Nidavellir.
Drax: Nidavellir? That's a made up word!
Thor: All words are made up.
Re: (Score:2)
Was that a problem for the combined company?
Errr yes. Look how hp managed to shit on Compaq's legacy in the process. Being a subsidiary is very different to merging a company as is the idea of a brand being relegated to a subsidiary. It's a question of brand value, it's a question of market control, it's a question of investment.
A subsidiary looses a lot of brand value (think Harman, and how the once great audio company is now just considered a label stuck onto Samsung's products).
A subsidiary has no say in a company's future. The parent company cont
Re: (Score:2)
Aren't "merger", "equals" and "subsidiary" just words? Compaq and HP merged, yet Compaq became a "subsidiary".
The McDonnell Douglas board took over the decision process for Boeing, look at how that has turned out. Nissan makes great cars, the Z cars, GTRs and possibly even the Silvias can be considered modern classics and their cars are well engineered, relatively simple and reliable. I've owned several Z cars and they are fun to drive and affordable.
I hope Nissan can survive and grow as I think younger generations are less interested in the racing and the engineering that makes their cars so good.
Nissan has problems (Score:3)
After Nissan more or less merged with Renault a couple of decades ago with Renault in the controlling position the quality of Nissan cars plummeted. It is like Renault took a forty three percent share of a once great car company and ruined it. The Nissan Maximas from the 1990s for example were great cars. By the late 2000s however they were horrible in a number of respects - the worst that I know of is that they designed them in those years in such a way that it was impossible to change a *headlamp* without going to a repair shop or the car dealer and paying them at least three hundred dollars to remove the entire front end. Either that or do the same thing or some kind of really dodgy short cut that could require special tools and take you all day.
I used to dream of owning a Nissan Maxima and then I purchased a used 2008 model several years after it came out and absolutely despised it. It had other problems as well like power steering that was on its way to uselessness as well. I do not plan to ever purchase a Nissan new or used ever again. I currently drive a used 2009 Toyota Camry and it is a dream come true by comparison - a model of reliability in particular with only a handful of weaknesses fifteen years later. And the recent Toyota Highlanders are rather nice as well. I wish I could say the same of any new Nissan but I haven't had the fortune or the misfortune to drive or test drive one yet. Such a very very very sad outcome for a once iconic automobile company.
Re: (Score:3)
So... the automotive equivalent of the Boeing/McDonnell merger?
I'm happy they're going to stay their own company (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nissan got a bad rap because their CVT transmissions for a mess when they first put them out. They fixed that probably six or seven years ago and their rock solid now.
Nope. The entire reason I traded my '19 Versa in for a Chevy Bolt was because the CVT was getting wonky. Also, rust. Nissan uses the lowest quality paint I've ever seen on a vehicle and I found quite a few spots (mostly around the trunk lid and on the interior side of body panels) where it had begun to rust. Keep in mind this is in Florida where cars typically don't rust until they're well past their first decade of ownership.
Until I owned one, I used to think the keyboard warriors were just being snobb
Re: (Score:2)
ICE? (Score:2)
Honda said it will abandon the ICE market by 2040.
Nissan likely wants to keep its rural low-end business in much of the world.
I'd love to get magical cheap EV tech by then that would make all ICE obsolete but the idea of national power grids getting that good that fast appears to be impossible.
Re: (Score:1)
If that's their strategy they should merge with a Detroit company, as I suspect Detroit will be one of the last makers of ICE cars.
However, when enough gas stations close, making refueling hard and ICE sales finally fall over, Detroit may just die.
escape in a box (Score:2)
Maybe Nissan can escape in box to the middle east.