Titan Sub Implosion Audio Released For the First Time (jalopnik.com) 71
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Jalopnik: Experimental submarine the Titan sank in June 2023 while exploring the wreck of the Titanic. The controversial craft imploded while deep beneath the surface of the ocean killing five people onboard, and now a recording of the Titan's final moments has been shared by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. [...] In the clip, which is available to hear [here], the static sound of the ocean is shattered by a great rumble, which sounds almost like a wave crashing against the beach.
It's this noise that is thought to be the total failure of the Titan, as LBC adds: "It is believed that the noise is the 'acoustic signature' of the sub imploding on 18th June 2023. It was recorded by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration device about 900 miles from where the sub was last seen on radar, south of Newfoundland, Canada, US Coast Guard officials announced. The five crew members who died onboard the sub were British explorer sub were Hamish Harding, 58, British-Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his son Suleman, 19, French deep-sea explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet (known as 'Mr Titanic'), 77, and and co-founder of the submarines owner's company OceanGate, Stockton Rushton, 61."
It's this noise that is thought to be the total failure of the Titan, as LBC adds: "It is believed that the noise is the 'acoustic signature' of the sub imploding on 18th June 2023. It was recorded by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration device about 900 miles from where the sub was last seen on radar, south of Newfoundland, Canada, US Coast Guard officials announced. The five crew members who died onboard the sub were British explorer sub were Hamish Harding, 58, British-Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood, 48, and his son Suleman, 19, French deep-sea explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet (known as 'Mr Titanic'), 77, and and co-founder of the submarines owner's company OceanGate, Stockton Rushton, 61."
Heard It (Score:2)
This recording was (leaked?) in the wild a long time ago. I remember listening to it.
RIP (Score:2, Redundant)
Very tragic. Listening to the audio brings a pit to my stomach. I hope they didn't have time to contemplate what was about to happen.
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Darwin Award winner applications are rarely tragic.
A family getting wiped out by a drunk driver is tragic. Some dumbasses dying by diving deep under water in cast off trash steered by a ps4 controller is just stupid.
Re:RIP (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not terribly bothered by some men old enough to know better going for a deep sea dive and not coming back. They must have had some understanding of the risks. What upsets me is hearing that a 19 year old felt pressured into going on this dive by his father then paying the ultimate price for it. I realize that there's an argument that this young man was also old enough to know better but with his father influencing the decision there's the factor that the father should have known to respect his son's reluctance to go on the trip.
If some middle aged man wants to go on a dangerous trip then I'm fine. Where I have a problem is his decision to take his son, the crew allowing the young man on board in spite of his reluctance, and perhaps that odd-man-out that went on the trip also not speaking up.
Darwin Awards are not issued for people that lacked the mental capacity to understand the risks of the activity that killed them because of youth or other factors. At 19 years old this is a borderline case.
Re: RIP (Score:4, Insightful)
It could be argued that Stockton Rush murdered these people (and himself). Only he knew how technically crappy his "submersible" was.
Only for him, the case is clearly a Darwin award.
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Murder would be hard to prove. Probable Cause, wreckless homicide maybe, negligent homicide for sure. Premeditated willful ending of human lives? Not so much. That requires intent or at the very least operating with malice.
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Oh, it definitely wasn't "wreckless" as there's a clearly definable shipwreck fairly close to the Titanic shipwreck if someone was to go looking.
Reckless engineering design that didn't take into account the development of micro-fractures in the carbon fiber hull is definitely a thing though.
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It could be argued that Stockton Rush murdered these people (and himself). Only he knew how technically crappy his "submersible" was.
False. Everyone who was paying attention (HINT HINT) knew before the sub even dove. We knew about the repurposed and expired carbon fiber pressure vessel, we knew about the window's inadequate crush depth rating, we knew about the COTS wireless controller. We the idle jerkoffs did more research into the lack of safety than the people getting on the sub did. Those people volunteered to be test dummies by going in ignorance.
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He was a narcissist - they train themselves to believe their own bullshit because it's "not a lie" if you truly believe it.
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Darwin Awards are not issued for people that lacked the mental capacity to understand the risks of the activity that killed them because of youth or other factors. At 19 years old this is a borderline case.
He was old enough to join the army, get married, have kids, raise kids ...
Unless he was impaired and under guardianship, it was his decision. (Unless, I suppose, if his dad was going to throw him on the street by morning or something.)
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He was old enough to join the army, get married, have kids, raise kids ...
In the USA the laws bar people under 21 years old from buying tobacco, alcohol, cannabis, and some kinds of firearms and ammunition.
Outside of the law are private companies that won't provide certain products or services to people under 21 years of age, such as car rentals, certain kinds of insurance (but perhaps I repeat my earlier point), certain drugs (or products believed could used to make drugs), and I know I'm forgetting more examples.
If we are going to use the age of marriage and having children as
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Re:RIP (Score:5, Funny)
a 19 year old felt pressured
Well, you got that right.
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On the plus side, the implosion would have been near-instantaneous. Certainly fast
So the human brain doesn't finish developing (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe stuff like c-sections will change that over a long time frame but it's going to be thousands of years. Heck we might eventually start using artificial wombs. For all the whiny dystopian sci-fi around them if you actually had them and they worked I can't imagine women wouldn't prefer them. Then again it would piss the Christians off because of core tenant of their religion is women have to suffer in childbirth
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I mean, but he's right.
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Your lack of imagination is not a strength.
Your lack of specifics is pathetic bullshit.
Why don't you just fuck off and let people who want to have a conversation do that without your tears? Fuck your feelings.
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Artificial wombs seem more sensible, c-sections can cause scarring and present risks for any future pregnancy. C-sections also limit exposure of the skin to the mother's microbiome, although the effects of that aren't clear to me.
With artificial wombs, there's obviously no scarring and you can control all the parameters as you like.
There's also evidence that, during the last trimester, the foetus' brain is influenced by sounds outside the womb and that this impacts the sounds the person can generate later i
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Artificial wombs seem more sensible, c-sections can cause scarring and present risks for any future pregnancy. C-sections also limit exposure of the skin to the mother's microbiome, although the effects of that aren't clear to me.
Artificial wombs limit exposure of the child's system to the mother's far more. You can solve the non-vaginal birth issue by smearing some vag juice on the newborn's face, but what other repercussions will there be? We're a long way from Cyteen.
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It's not just being useless and stupid.
The brain goes through different phases as well. When we are young you are incredibly good at learning language, and we lose that as the brain reaches it's final form and gets better at planning, logic, impulse control and so on.
Re:RIP (Score:5, Insightful)
steered by a ps4 controller
I don't know why people keep making a big deal out of this. It's a submersible, not a submarine. That controller wasn't even critical to its operation. The only way it could have been is if they were planning on doing a penetrating dive, which would be beyond stupid in any manned craft, and as far as I know they weren't planning on it.
There were real issues with it, but a fucking playstation controller wasn't one of them. Namely:
1. The carbon fiber hull was built like shit
2. The carbon fiber hull wasn't tested for shit
3. Its early warning system wasn't proven
4. Its early warning system was known to be only partially functional even at the time of that final dive (several of its sensors literally weren't working)
5. The carbon fiber hull had already experienced a partial buckling in an earlier dive
6. The data they had from the previous eight dives after the partial buckling had shown that the hull was flexing in ways that it really shouldn't have been, and they just blatantly ignored it
Some people shout "but carbon fiber is bad, James Cameron said so!" No, not really. In fact, it's been done, many times, including by the US Navy. The valid complaint about it is that it isn't a formally proven material for manned dives. Think of it more like where xenotransplants are right now; it's likely going to work eventually, but still not proven.
https://www.designnews.com/ind... [designnews.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Using a toy controller for *anything* is symbolic of how shitty the rest of the build was.
If they had a ps4 on board to display educational videos then sure but to use one in *any* other way is madness.
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I never cared that much about the ps4 controller. Have spare ones aboard just in case and I guess you are fine.
Almost everybody was agreeing that a carbon fiber hull was crazy for a submarine going that deep and it's where he messed up IMHO along with the glued rings. All experts said they'd never use any kind of carbon fiber hull for such a submarine. It's just the wrong material according to them.
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Almost everybody was agreeing that a carbon fiber hull was crazy for a submarine going that deep and it's where he messed up IMHO along with the glued rings. All experts said they'd never use any kind of carbon fiber hull for such a submarine. It's just the wrong material according to them.
I doubt any of them were involved in materials science. While I'm not either, the idea that it couldn't work sounded a bit suspect to me. Not only does it work, even at these depths, it's actually used often, just not for manned dives. There's no good reason to believe that it couldn't be, however. See the links I provided in that earlier post. Relevant snippet:
But with appropriate construction, that’s not a problem, CET asserts. To prove it, Hogoboom points to the record of his company’s products in deep-sea applications. “We’ve built vessels that we’ve cycled 200 times (to deep-sea pressures) and then brought to implosion and those fail at the same depth as new ones.”
The key is diligence in designing and testing the composite structures, Hogoboom explained. “We have a very high confidence in the strength of what’s been built,” he said. “We use engineering models, but we test to failure to validate what’s been modeled. That’s a crucial step that OceanGate has skipped," according to Hogoboom. “They never brought an exact clone to failure.”
That youtube video I linked is an analysis done by an actual expert at materials science.
At the coast guard hearings, it was revealed that the consu
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Well, I heard carbon fiber degrades faster than conventional metallic hulls with pressurization/depressurization. I don't know for sure if it's true but it seems to make sense a lot given that fatal use case.
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That holds true for any material, not just composites. The concern for composites, or any anisotropic material for that matter, is delamination. But lemme quote the relevant bit again:
“We’ve built vessels that we’ve cycled 200 times (to deep-sea pressures) and then brought to implosion and those fail at the same depth as new ones.”
With carbon fiber. And they've been doing it for longer than oceangate even existed. Note that the Titan failed on its 13th dive to those depths, out of 90 total attempted dives.
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Using a toy controller for *anything* is symbolic of how shitty the rest of the build was.
While I fully agree that this was a reckless project from an arrogant man, I want to push back on this point. It's perfectly valid to use COTS parts - even consumer parts - to speed development. I would expect that things like "release ballast and GTFO" were controlled by switches and other controls, not the game controller.
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Virginia-class attack submarines like the USS Colorado use XBox 360 controllers to operate their photonic masts. They replaced heavy and clunky "helicopter-style joysticks." Are those shitty builds too?
No, that's a shitty argument. It's shitty because they kept the original control system as a backup, exactly like we are saying they should have had a backup control system on this sub. It's also a shitty argument because they are not depending on the controller to drive the sub. Are you being disingenuous, or do you not understand those things are different?
Re: RIP (Score:2)
First of all, what do you mean "drive"? And I'm not talking about the proper term being "pilot", rather, it's as if you believe all movement of that submersible, including buoyancy control, was done with the game controller.
If they needed to abort the dive for any reason, they didn't need the controller to do it.
Re: RIP (Score:2)
They call them sub drivers in the US Navy. Sorry you're not familiar with the slang.
Re: RIP (Score:2)
Even if that's true, the Navy does a lot of weird shit. Like for example:
- They wear their name tags on their butts because they prefer to talk to each other's asses
- This is also why they keep their drinking fountains mounted very low
- They wear neckerchiefs even though they're not allowed to have long hair because they still like to resemble their favorite snack mascot
- Speak of mascots, theirs is a goat, which has fuck all to do with the sea other than in the old days they kept one on board every ship be
Re: RIP (Score:2)
No question that the Navy is fairly hilarious. My father was a marine and I used to know a bunch of folks in the guard so I've heard all the jokes, more or less. They say they call them drivers because of the wheel, I have not known too many people who served on subs though.
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Using a toy controller for *anything* is symbolic of how shitty the rest of the build was
It's also a shitty argument because they are not depending on the controller to drive the sub.
Where exactly would you like these goal posts moved to?
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Where exactly would you like these goal posts moved to?
The Navy is using the controllers because they are ubiquitous and they can get replacements any time, any place, or any port anyway. You can't get a replacement underwater. The Navy also kept a backup. They didn't have a backup to begin with. I should have put the word "only" in there for you, sorry.
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The game controller would make sense as a secondary option because you could hand that to a regular person and let them pile it the sub around a little bit. As the only option for controlling the sub it's insane
Re: RIP (Score:2)
Holy shit you're bad at this...
It was entirely possible that stupid little controller was going to fail and they would have been left stranded
No. Wrong. Completely false. The only component that could have left them stranded would have been the ballast system, which didn't rely on that controller. I realize that you don't even know what a ballast is, let alone what it has to do with buoyancy, or even what buoyancy is for that matter, but at the very least think before talking. The first clue that you needed to do this as a first step was when you didn't understand the meaning of "penetrating dive". But you casually
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Darwin Award winner applications are rarely tragic.
A family getting wiped out by a drunk driver is tragic. Some dumbasses dying by diving deep under water in cast off trash steered by a ps4 controller is just stupid.
I would feel worse for them if not for the warnings from the engineering team beforehand. There were reports made that the carbon fiber was delaminating. I wouldn't get on a bicycle frame that was showing signs of delaminating, and these dumb fucks went, "Nah, it'll be fine," with their lives on the line. It wasn't even playing a game of chance. It was flagrantly defying the laws of physics, which, despite not being an intelligent entity, is not ever a game you'll win. Physics reasserts itself, often with a
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Pretty much true - the implosion really only took a couple of milliseconds to occur, while the nerve signals to the brain take around 10ms or so. So basically you've been crushed into a pulp long before the brain gets the image from the eyes of the implosion or your nerves reporting feeling compressed.
And honestly, in this day and age, I guess most people wouldn't really care about the victims - given what billionaires are helping themselves to the US economy and such these days.
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I've read there may have been a power failure before it happened so it was probably an very scaring few minutes beforehand if true.
Personally my sympathy for the adults is limited, they knew the risks. I feel REALLY sorry for the young boy who went along who apparently didn't want to go but did it because his dad was going.
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Someone did the math on it when it happened. Due to the pressure of ocean at which they were, and other various timings that were derived from the sound pulse, it's thought that between the catastrophic collapse of the hull and the friction created in the air, they were vaporized by the heat before being turned into a thin red paste by the walls smashing them in milliseconds.
Honestly, probably the least painful way to go in that their neurons wouldn't have even had time to register the pain before it's all
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Gruesome.
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Diesel engine exploration from inside the cylinder (Score:1)
Person after person told them not to use a sub constructed this way and still that Rush guy just kept on going.
Stupidy and arrogance... (Score:2)
... is a very dangerous combination.
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Throw a heap of money on that fire and you have a trifecta for disaster.
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Sounds like any American entrepreneur.
Re:Diesel engine exploration from inside the cylin (Score:4, Insightful)
He did not listen because "you are remembered for the rules you break".
and on that one, he quoted correctly. He is now remembered for the rules he broke.
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No screams? Feh.
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"Controversial" (Score:2)
Re: "Controversial" (Score:2)
It was inspirational, or at least Me. Rush said so.
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What was controversial about it? I don't recall anyone defending the vessel, CEO, or company... It was pretty much an open-and-closed case of hubris and negligence.
I don’t understand either. It’s standard tech bro behavior to move fast and break things and that sub wasn’t exactly fast.
I didn't realize... (Score:2)
... the sound of hubris and narcissism was so rumbly.
Obligatory (Score:2)
Obligatory "...and nothing of value was lost."
I'd rip on them for their hubris (Score:2)
Conflict of Intrest (Score:2)
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One of OceanGate's board of Directors is a retired Coast Guard Admiral. How much influence did he have on getting the vessel certified?
Not enough, apparently, because the vessel was never certified by any relevant body. The influence he should have had was on Rush to quit his screwing around, pay attention to all of the naysayers, and kowtow to the standards in the field, including obtaining certification.
Not Worth Listenting to AI Voice (Score:2)