Australia, With No Auto Industry To Protect, is Awash With Chinese EVs (msn.com) 253
Chinese electric vehicle maker BYD is rapidly gaining market share in Australia, with sales rising 65% last year as nearly one in four EVs sold in the country was a BYD, according to EVDirect CEO David Smitherman. Chinese EVs now comprise roughly one-third of electric vehicles sold in Australia, which has no domestic auto industry to protect with tariffs, unlike the United States where both Trump and Biden administrations have effectively blocked Chinese EV imports.
The Biden administration imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs to shield U.S. automakers from what it termed unfair competition. U.S. officials also blocked Chinese vehicle software over security concerns that Beijing could use internet-connected cars for surveillance. Australian authorities are monitoring U.S. developments but remain noncommittal despite security experts urging restrictions on Chinese connected car technology.
The Biden administration imposed a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs to shield U.S. automakers from what it termed unfair competition. U.S. officials also blocked Chinese vehicle software over security concerns that Beijing could use internet-connected cars for surveillance. Australian authorities are monitoring U.S. developments but remain noncommittal despite security experts urging restrictions on Chinese connected car technology.
I hear they are pretty good (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:4, Informative)
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Insightful)
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The other issue is heat pumps (Aircon), people are using it summer and winter so hydro reserves have no time to refill with the summer melt.
And more people are getting ride of wildfires , so in goes more heat pumps
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Insightful)
This post is about Australia, you know, one of those other countries. Australia in particular is very well set up with a huge amount of solar power available and with a lower population density such that a typical house there has more than enough roof space for a decent size solar array that can run a house, charge a car and run aircon.
I know first hand because that is what I do here in New Zealand. Last year I pulled 1.3Mwh from the grid, but after running my house, aircon and charging my car I still had 4Mwh surplus to push into the grid. The power I pulled was from a green energy supplier and the power I pushed was from my roof top solar panels.
Sure, I'm an early adopter so paid a lot but the prices are falling so fast that ROI is looking good for most people now. New Zealand is currently 82% renewables and on track to be 100%, while other countries are ahead of us. So I call bullshit on it being a long time to replace oil for cars. If you ignore the dumpster fire that is the current USA the rest of the world is rolling out new green energy at a rate that is generally on par with extra power need for the new BEVs hitting the road. There is bound to be issues with such a big transition but trend is clear and happening faster than most people expected.
BTW, I have owned both a BYD and Tesla and both were fine vehicles that I was/am more than happy with.
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https://www.energyresources.or... [energyresources.org.nz]
In New Zealand we are fortunate to have renewable energy sources providing most of our electricity (around 82%) and around 40% of our total primary energy. This includes geothermal, hydro and wind.
The other 60% of our energy comes from oil (32%), natural gas (21%) and a small amount of coal.*
Example of one are worthless.
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I have an EV. My homes AC and Heat pump uses more power than my EV. But no one is really complaining about home Climate Control as a drain on our power generation. Heck power companies are saying we should switch to heat pumps.
As well normal conditions EVs charge during the night while energy consumption is low, and helps balance the demand of the power grid, to allow more efficient use of the existing grid.
What you really should be concerned about is the AI farms, the AI based server farms chew up a hec
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Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:3)
Go look at the efficiency of power plants and EVs. You will get more miles and less emissions out of putting the fossil fuels into power plants and charging EVs.
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:2)
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I'm still wanting to get and do a resto-mod of a 1976 Trans Am 455 4-speed. Something that gets 10 gallons to the mile.
I'd love to get one and take off all the stuff they were doing at the end to restrict airflow and HP....and open that sucker up, with a modern suspension.
I also like that last year with the round headlights....real vintage looking with the screaming chicken.
I love the old Vettes too....but I had a new C5 6 speed wh
Please, no. (Score:4, Insightful)
These cars represent a period, a style, an engineering design of history. Once ripped apart, you almost can't put it back...all that is lost forever, and future generations won't care about what you thought was cool in 2025. Thin rims, for example [even on pick-up trucks now?], are already starting to look dated.
To pull from the movie: "We are simply passing through history. This...this is history"
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and future generations won't care about what you thought was cool in 2025
No one is buying a classic car for a future generation. People do what pleases themselves. There's no reason a classic car needs to remain in its original state other than for collection and resale value. The GP clearly intended to actually drive it.
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:3)
You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus their cars regularly review poorly.
Which part exactly do you consider "delusional"?
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Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:3)
According to which tests? Euro, NHTSA, something else?
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AURONCAP https://www.euroncap.com/en/ra... [euroncap.com]
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:4, Insightful)
It helps BYD is a state funded entity. Sell at losses globally as long as granpa Xi keeps funding the losses through government loans. Any chinese company that supports the government agenda becomes a government department to keep going, no matter the P&L
Yes that has been analysed extensively and it was shown to make up 17% of the price of the car. That's why the EU placed this tariff on them. Unfortunately that doesn't cover the rest of the quality vs cost benefit of BYD. For that you need to look at the actual business practices of these companies such as having their own fully integrated vertical supply chain.
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That's my understanding too. It's not that they're super high quality, its that they're "good enough" and a LOT cheaper.
Which honestly is holding back EV adoption in western countries. Many people can't afford a new car period - they shop used. Of those that do buy a new car there are a lot of sales on relatively low priced budget cars (ie, the Toyota Corolla). I know plenty of people who would scoff at the idea of putting more than $6k-$7k into a car (they're obviously in the buy used camp).
No EV's on
Re:I hear they are pretty good (Score:4, Insightful)
I know plenty of people who would scoff at the idea of putting more than $6k-$7k into a car (they're obviously in the buy used camp).
No EV's on the market can compete anywhere near the price point needed for mass adoption.
And as a double whammy, the lower income people who wouldn't pay more than $7k for a car often also don't have means for home or work charging, so charging an EV is much more inconvenient than fueling up a gas car. And since these people often are paid per hourly rather than salaried, there is sometimes a cost to spending 30 minutes for charging instead of 5 minutes for getting gas.
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Teslas are "good enough" for lots of uber drivers around here but they feel cheap and are always broken. They are like boxes on wheels, which the Prius taxis do just as well. I'm surprised that Teslas made in China were able to sell in China, or did they compete at the same price level?
I haven't driven any Chinese EVs.
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I think this is the one I read, https://www.taipeitimes.com/Ne... [taipeitimes.com] there's https://apnews.com/article/tes... [apnews.com] and more with the search I used, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Brak... [duckduckgo.com]
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:3)
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There are bargains for poor people if you are realistic about what you real needs are, not some imaginary do everything vehicle. My elderly mother who lives on a pension brought a Nissan Leaf for about $5K about 4 years ago. The reason it was so cheap was it was a first gen with a poor range battery
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Some of them are extremely good. And affordable as far as EVs go. Australia also loves yutes (pickups) so there are even some of those appearing and I bet they sell in far greater quantities than the shitty cybertruck, assuming it's even road legal in Oz.
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And second if you do a Google search you'll find plenty of articles where there's solid evidence China is using slave labor to build the things. Not the borderline slave labor that they always use but actual slaves.
I am all for competing on the global stage and all that jazz however the American workers deserve to be able to
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Insightful)
European cars require the car to absorb a certain amount of energy in an impact with a pedestrian. The Cybertruck will turn them into paste.
It meets driver and passenger safety standards just fine.
Not to denigrate European pedestrian safety standards imposed upon vehicle manufacturers- it's just slightly... mmmh, misleading to just say "safety standards" in the context of a car.
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Funny)
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So the cybertruck is an unmitigated disaster (Score:2)
But we do care about the people inside cars and so we have rigorous safety requirements for them. Yes you can buy a subcompact that is more or less like driving around in a motorcycle if you really really want to but there's a reason those don't sell very well.
When my kid was in college I needed to buy them a card I sprun
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Nope, not true.
Yes, true.
European *driver and passenger* safety standards require the presence of readily deformable front ends that will absorb energy to lessen the impact of a crash on a vehicle occupant.
They sure do.
The Cybertruck meets US safety standards on crumple zone deformataion, so it meets European safety standards on the same.
American cars have famously had more stringent requirements in this regard (which is why US car collectors wanted European cars with their ridiculously unsafe bumpers, rather than American cars with their big safe ones)
The Cybertruck’s rigid front end made of extremely non-deformable structural steel is one among many reasons why it’s not legal in Europe.
Incorrect.
The specific requirement of deformable sections that pedestrians are likely to survive if it gives are why are where it runs afoul, like
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:5, Informative)
You appear to know absolutely nothing about European pedestrian safety standards for vehicle manufacture. You appear to barely know anything about US standards (eg that vehicle safety tests in the US largely focus on occupant safety and not pedestrian safety, that the US relies on self-certs rather than regulator-run crash tests, etc). You assert that meeting American safety standards on crumple deformation means that a vehicle also meets European safety standards on crumple deformation, but these standards are not identical. It is truly insane to say that American cars have had more stringent pedestrian safety standards than European. That might have been true decades ago, but US trucks are routinely unable to be imported into Europe because they don’t meet European pedestrian safety standards by, for example, having a trunk that is too high and long to meet visibility requirements. It’s not a coincidence that American pedestrian deaths have increased dramatically in the past few years, while European deaths have fallen.
On Cybertruck:
https://www.transportenvironme... [transportenvironment.org]
https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com]
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You appear to know absolutely nothing about European pedestrian safety standards for vehicle manufacture.
Just what I can read.
You appear to barely know anything about US standards (eg that vehicle safety tests in the US largely focus on occupant safety and not pedestrian safety
That was literally my point, lol.
You assert that meeting American safety standards on crumple deformation means that a vehicle also meets European safety standards on crumple deformation, but these standards are not identical.
Of course they're not. They're nowhere close to identical.
Particularly since the Euro standards literally include pedestrian safety considerations, and the US standards literally do not.
For one, US crash tests are conducted at 56km/h instead of 50km/h, and a 5 star rating means "very little chance of harm to the passenger" (What the Cybertruck was rated), while the European standards don't come anywhere close to that requirement (but then again, neithe
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Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:2)
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The correct term is forced labour. It's different to slave labour in that they are not slaves, they do get paid and are not confined to the factory. It's just that they are obligated to take the job. A bit like how people are obligated to take a job or have their benefits cut here, but with the threat of jail and even violence if they refuse. It's part of an effort to destroy their culture by taking people away from working in traditional businesses, and forcing them to adopt Chinese culture instead.
Of cour
Re: I hear they are pretty good (Score:2)
Oh no I'm not happy about any slave labor (Score:2)
I'm not going to sit here and say just because I can't stop all products made with slave labor from existing in my economy that I'm not going to block the ones I can block. Some of that is moral objections and some of it is practical. I don't think American Auto workers should be forced to compete with literal slaves and I'm smart enough to understand that if
and yet no where to service them.... (Score:3, Interesting)
I live in Oz.
there is bugger all places to service them, and you can be sure as shit it will be hard to get parts.
I look after an Australia Wide vehicle fleet - we are sticking with Toyota's
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there is bugger all places to service them, and you can be sure as shit it will be hard to get parts.
Parts galore on Aliexpress.
World... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or was, until some stupid cunt raised tariffs.
Re:World... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, its because we are seeing the cuntish behaviour of the current US government with their tariffs on everything now and refusing to buy American just because we can.
This website has so many times over the past 25+ years called for people to boycott products because of some behaviour or another - and thats whats happening right now with American goods, people are choosing other things now.
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I cancelled all my US based subscriptions the moment Trump was elected.
I will no longer buy US goods or services
I have now been buying from the EU/UK/Aus/Asia instead.
The problem with losing customers is that often the build a relationship with their new supplier and they never come back.
Re: World... (Score:2)
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(Assuming it was "electrons") I was going to to say that your post comes off as being negative.
Re:World... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm working a new product that will reach market this year. Normally the USA would be one of the first countries to target to export to. Currently it is not even on our list, the European market is a similar size and much easier to deal with. Maybe we will offer product to the USA market next year but there is zero incentive to make anything there, if USA customers want our product they will simply have to pay more to cover the taxes they have to pay to their government. We won't be giving them a discount, more profitable to simply focus on other markets.
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This is also bringing the US back more to parity with most other countries out there that for decades have been putting tariffs on US goods while the US had little to no tariffs on the goods coming from those countries.....
I've seen this claim thrown around a lot recently. What was the tariff situation between the the US and the countries currently being targeted prior to Trump's actions? I honestly have no idea but you seem to.
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What was the tariff situation between the the US and the countries currently being targeted prior to Trump's actions? I honestly have no idea but you seem to.
Canadian here. We did this exact same thing 8 years ago. We just all assume Trump forgets.
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Yup, you folks responded to US sanctions with sanctions of your own just like this time https://www.business-standard.... [business-standard.com] . What were you getting at with that?
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Sorry, I didnt mean "sanctions". I meant tariffs.
Re:World... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Agreed. It's a little scary having him as president and I've never felt that way about one.
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Not like this. We never had to worry over the Democratic transfer of power with him like we do with Trump. Nor did Bush Jr. ignore the courts. Nor did Bush Jr. coddle US enemies over our allies (that dust up with France was nothing on this). Nor did Bush Jr. do things that seem like they're purposely done to crash the economy.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a fan of Bush Jr. but I never worried over any of the above or any number of other things with him like I do with Trump.
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sure because applying tariffs on raw materials you don't produce sure is going to work great.
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So, we force ourselves to start producing them domestically...again in some cases.
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If that's the goal wouldn't phasing the tariffs in on a planned timeline to give time for supply chains to reorient and domestic production to begin make more sense?
Re:World... (Score:4, Informative)
So pissing off allies and formerly good trading partners is part of some brilliant strategy? I guess we can spin up a new automotive manufacturing facility in the next week or so...
80% of the potash critical to farming comes from Canada. https://archive.ph/SCYDU [archive.ph] Farmers would be up shit creek if that was shut off.
Re:World... (Score:5, Informative)
If potash becomes a critical situation; we are few DPA orders from having all we need available. We can also easily accept lower yields by just using a lot less of the stuff. The price of box of cereal can stay low, if we just stop USAID from competing for it.
Meanwhile Honda is already moving production back to the US.
We have trade deficits with most of these 'partners' aggregate American wealth isn't helped by these 'allies' for the most part. Hell the 300B we have flushed down the Ukrainian hole, would do plenty to help the American family!
Might want to check your numbers my friend. https://www.cfr.org/article/us... [cfr.org]
We give way more to Israel and I seem to recall when republicans hating Russia back in the 80s. Ol' Ronnie Reagan is spinning in his grave now with orange jesus parroting Putin talking points.
Re: World... (Score:2)
Ah yes, from the Trump school of making shit up.
Now, did you give this 3 trillion to a dictator.
Or not?
potash is the nuclear option (Score:2)
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The dream
Meanwhile Honda is already moving production back to the US.
The reality
It now plans to build the new Civic model in Indiana from May 2028 with an expected annual production of around 210,000, one of the people said. Honda would look to import from nations not hit by tariffs if production in Indiana falls short of demand, one of them said.
https://www.reuters.com/busine... [reuters.com] ... they will be spending the next three years preparing for production in a facility outside the US that isn't affected by the tariffs. This is like watching someone play chess against their dog. I don't know if it's cruel, enlightening, funny, sad, or who to cheer for. Can dumb be an emotion?
We have trade deficits with most of these 'partners' aggregate American wealth isn't helped by these 'allies' for the most part. Hell the 300B we have flushed down the Ukrainian hole, would do plenty to help the American family!
Aggregate American wealth? We have the largest GDP in the world. 1.5x the runner-up. Per-capita we're in the top ten, with a bunch of low population countries ahead of us. If you sin
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The same thing the US did since WWII when countries/trade blocs imposed tariffs on America goods: nothing.
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"American" , stupid typoes.
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The US got the benefit of the dollar acting as the world's reserve currency and the attendant economic stability. In exchange, it was necessary for the US to run a trade deficit to ensure an outflow of US dollars.
What do we have to protect? (Score:4, Interesting)
What do we have to protect anyways? Most of the US auto industry is barely interested in electric.
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What do we have to protect anyways?
Terrible quality vehicles that would need a commercial drivers license in most of the world. We can fit SIX grocery bags into this Ford F-250!
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Hey, we like what we like....
The US is a LARGE country, with lots of roads, cities, different terrains and well....the people have freedom to buy what they like and want.
Frankly, I myself am not a truck or SUV person...I've never owned anything in my life but 2-seater manual transmission sports cars.
But, I do swap keys with friends with trucks on the few times here and there I need something with hauling capacity....so, nice they are out there, but that'
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So these vehicles aren't poor quality, over priced, and over sized because freedom?
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I dunno about the quality, like I'd mentioned, I've only owned 2-seater manual transmission sports cars all my life.....but my friends' truck and SUVs seem to be nice enough quality wise...they get the job done. I find them nice to borrow when I need something with hauling capacity from time to time. (It's hard to carry 3-4 40lb sacks of live crawfish when I want to have a crawfish boil in my backyard to party with friends)
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Right, no one buys a large truck because of dumbshit identity stuff.
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Hey, a person likes what they like, eh?
What's wrong with that?
I mean, I doubt MOST people need a corvette or Porsche 911 Turbo.....but, nothing wrong with someone that wants one and drives one if it makes them happy.
Why would you care what makes them happy?
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I think you missed the LARGE part of my statement....in that we have plenty of room to drive and park LARGE vehicles if we want them, and apparently a lot of US citizens want them.
Re: plenty of space vs. true cost of free parking (Score:2)
Parking ramps aren't designed to accommodate the weight or fire hazard of electric vehicles. In many communities they are long past their best by date and not even up to being structurally sound when empty.
For example NYC has loads of 100+ year old garages and has only implemented inspections in the past couple years. Something that will take a decade to accomplish. Meanwhile, a lot of these structures are brittle as a ho
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What do we have to protect anyways?
Won't somebody please think about the poor Elon?
Re:What do we have to protect? (Score:5, Interesting)
If we go into a war situation we are going to take those car factories and convert them into factories for building tanks and jets and other weapons we need.
This isnt the mid 20th century anymore, this conversion would not work out very well. A simple retooling is not going to give these company's the ability to work with modern targeting systems and composite armors, Modern tanks are too complex nowadays for this to work.
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"companies"
So you're just thinking about the tooling (Score:2)
Yeah it wouldn't be as quick but it would save months of effort. In a wartime those to months are probably the difference.
I mean really realistically nuclear weapons kind of make all of this a moot point. But we've also been keeping our entire economy going with the military industrial complex since the '50s so there is that. We could pull it but our economy would collapse. They're just isn
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Yeah it wouldn't be as quick but it would save months of effort. In a wartime those to months are probably the difference.
It's hard to find proper numbers but I very strongly dont think there would be anything to gain from trying to convert these factories. Doubly so for converting anything civilian into making modern war planes as you mentioned above.
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More expensive actually because you're going to be replacing those tires a lot more often.
Just because the torque is there doesn't mean you have to use all of it every time you are stopped at a red light. Just don't drive like a maniac and the wear isn't that much worse. In exchange, you get to say goodbye to oil changes and brake pad wear.
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Electric cars just aren't the sol
Re: EV TCO (Score:2)
wrong (Score:2)
I went from volvo to nissan EV. The EV is way cheaper. I track every detail in a spreadsheet. I drive less than 6000 miles per year. Most the savings are not buying gas. My road tax is double but even with my low amount of driving it's still lower than the gas tax for me. Insurance is the same. I save a bit over $1000 per year with the little I drive. Suspension and drive parts are like any other car but possibly the dealer is ripping me off on maintenance quotes- I do all that myself and literally pay 1
What do Australian mechanics think of them? (Score:2)
Lay opinions aren't worth much as they do not see or engage with machinery the same as users.
What do skilled mechanics with extended experience on those BEV (including crash repair) think of them? How is parts availability, durability and troubleshooting?
Holden (Score:2)
"...Australia, which has no domestic auto industry..."
Australia used to have something of a domestic auto industry.
Holden cars were rarely seen outside of Australia and New Zealand, but the name will still prompt men of a certain age to stare nostalgicically back into the 1970s and remember the stylings of the old Holden Kingswood which was a common sight in those days.
Complacency will be your undoing (Score:2)
True story as told to me by a man who was a VP at General Motors in the 70s. GM sent him to Australia to asses the potential threat of Toyota entering the American market. He spent two weeks there and learned that that before Toyota arrived in their country, the dominant car maker had an 83% market share. After Toyota arrived, that same car maker had a 3% market share. He reported his finding to the GM board in New York. They said "That'll never happen here."