Why Most Countries Are Struggling To Shut Down 2G (restofworld.org) 53
Global telecom operators are struggling to shut down aging 2G networks despite pressure to free up spectrum for 4G and 5G services, as the transition threatens to exclude millions of vulnerable users.
While Vietnam successfully decommissioned 2G in November 2024 by providing free 4G phones to low-income users, countries like South Africa and India have delayed shutdowns over concerns about cutting off phone access for millions. According to GSMA Intelligence, 61 countries have planned or initiated 2G network shutdowns to enhance bandwidth and reduce maintenance costs. For 2.5 billion people worldwide, smartphones cost about 30% of monthly income, keeping basic phones essential despite declining global feature phone sales.
While Vietnam successfully decommissioned 2G in November 2024 by providing free 4G phones to low-income users, countries like South Africa and India have delayed shutdowns over concerns about cutting off phone access for millions. According to GSMA Intelligence, 61 countries have planned or initiated 2G network shutdowns to enhance bandwidth and reduce maintenance costs. For 2.5 billion people worldwide, smartphones cost about 30% of monthly income, keeping basic phones essential despite declining global feature phone sales.
what about alarms and other low data systems on ce (Score:5, Insightful)
what about alarms and other low data systems on cell links?
Re: what about alarms and other low data systems o (Score:2)
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I'm confused. What about alarms and low-data systems? Do they still use 2G happily alongside 4G and 5G devices? Or will they need to be upgraded also? In any case, I don't see how this would make TFA "way off" on anything. Surely the largest use of 2G in these markets is legacy handsets.
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A lot of embedded "IoT" type devices use particular low-power/low-data type connections, sometimes on specialty plans from the cell companies. Oftentimes these are in custom or semi custom hardware.
In my case we had deployed a bunch of cellular routers, these were all 3G Verizon EVO network. When the date came for that network to shut down we reached out to the manufacturer and they let us know that even though the modem was a modular unit effectively the hardware was not capable of communicating with an L
Re: what about alarms and other low data systems o (Score:5, Interesting)
The low-data systems he's talking about are stuff like Smartmeters - supposedly hundreds of thousands of these remain in the UK alone. There are also an insane number of telemetry devices installed in rural areas (around reservoirs and so on, not just just "houses in the countryside") by utilities, where 2G coverage was available but a fixed line link would be prohibitively challenging or expensive for the low data volumes these device typically send, which is often in the 10-100Kb/day range so 2G is more than enough. To give you an idea of scale, one UK water utility is currently replacing more than than 10,000 of these devices.
In case you're wondering, there's a good reason for that being the case in the UK, and I assume elsewhere, and it's that the cellular network providers saw an opportunity to provide data-only 2G SIMs in bulk to solve that kind of low-bandwith remote telemetry problem with setup like a combined amount of MB per day across all the hundreds or thousands of SIMs in the account. It was a good deal for everyone concerned, and utility providers in particular were all over it; no need for connections to the landline network, they could just bolt the box to a wall/post/DIN rail, and provide some power, sometimes by battery, but often by a small pinwheel turbine or solar panel in non-domestic installs - and mostly let it be (you see these things roadside all over the UK if you look). Of course, no one thought that anyone might want to switch of the 2G network before all these devices had naturally EoL'd, but industrial parts like these do tend to run for many, many, years without issue, so here we are.
Re: what about alarms and other low data systems (Score:1)
Meanwhile, my analogue meter from ca. 1955 that was once the property of the now defunct London Electricity Board keeps spinning away! These newfangled meters that lose their smartness when the phone tech goes away are apparently no better, but maybe wonâ(TM)t last as long. Whatâ(TM)s the point of upgrading?
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My power company drank the GPRS/2G Koolaide and replaced hundreds of thousands of mesh networked meters with celular. Telecoms announced that 2G would be going away and the power company just resurrected their mesh.
Fool me once ...
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Add to it a lot of vehicles where at least in Europe they will fail the yearly inspection if the vehicle can't make automated emergency calls in case of an accident and a lot of cars lacks support for 4G/5G.
Re: what about alarms and other low data systems o (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, this is the real reason. TFA is way off.
The website where TFA is located is called "restoftheword.org" And TFS talks about South Africa and India...
Do you really think that the ONE BILLION of indians of which lack purcharsing power care about GSM alarms and Fleet management?
https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
I can give you the example of my country, venezuela.
A family memeber of the first operator to shut down GSM, was in the business of fleet management, and even that did not stop them from shutting down the GSM network, as they were starved for bandwidth for 3G.
The second operator (owned by a spanish company) is shutting down GSM in 2026.
https://www.adslzone.net/notic... [adslzone.net]
And the third operator, owned by the govt, is keeping the GSM network alive "to sustain the right of the people to comunicate"
https://dplnews.com/movilnet-p... [dplnews.com]
Yet, those govt guys did not bid for 5G spectrum, and they started 4G deployment in earnest just in 2023, while their competition started in 2012 and 2016...
Re:what about alarms and other low data systems on (Score:4, Interesting)
Those systems have migrated to 4G.
My alarm was using a 2G notification system, then we got notice that because it was being shut off, it needed to be upgraded. The current cellular connection is 4G LTE based.
There are low data rate LTE profiles for such systems that aren't expected to need a lot of data, though they can also camp out in the regular 4G profile in case the carrier doesn't support the consumer electronics low data rate profile.
5G has similar profiles for the same.
There are also other ways of handing these things. Alarms used 2G because there was a simple notification system that basically reported switch status - if you closed a switch, it was reported through the 2G network as a switch being closed, so it was easy to implement, which given the age of 2G, was needed due to the lack of sophistication in the controllers.
This era of 4G is much easier since we have much more sophisticated processors able to handle much more complicated signalling so instead of contact reporting, it can do things like send and receive SMS to handle the notifications, or use the data channel and report data through that.
It's why the alarm companies went from just noticing that the alarm went off, to getting far more detailed reports like what zones got triggered, or if parts of the system are failing (e.g., low batteries) in far more detail. In the past they could tell there was something wrong with the system, but not what, now they can tell you a battery is low, what battery it is, and whether you need to schedule a service call to replace it (e.g., it can tell the difference between a smoke detector battery low and the system back up battery needing replacement).
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This is something I wonder about. Are newer phone frequencies as good as the old ones for dealing with low power devices, such as a GPS monitor that just sends a signal every so often to a remote place, or a door alarm which stays quiet until the door is opened, then logs an event? From what I know, 5G requires a lot of wattage to work, so backing down to 2G or EDGE may save a lot of power. However, I am sure low power, low bandwidth devices are factored into the design standard.
Can low bandwidth stuff w
Simple reason, really (Score:2)
It still works
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Unfortunately, in many countries it doesn't anymore. As someone with a 2G-only phone, this is becoming a real problem when traveling. I will soon have to replace my still perfectly working phone just because the network is no longer available, which is extremely annoying.
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Re: Simple reason, really (Score:2)
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Yeah, but my arm gets tired from cranking.
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That's distortion. It's measurable and can be replicated even with a half-decent DSP.
Pros and cons (Score:5, Interesting)
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Yup. I bought a car in June of 2015, and had it been a few weeks earlier it would have had 3G instead of G4. And at that time, most automakers were just thinking of moving from 2G to 3G. Automakers are very slow to adapt to new technology, but even if they all switched in 2015, that would only cover half of cars on the road today. But most cars older than that have horrible navigation and such, so it's probably not that big of a deal.
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Yup. I bought a car in June of 2015, and had it been a few weeks earlier it would have had 3G instead of G4. And at that time, most automakers were just thinking of moving from 2G to 3G. Automakers are very slow to adapt to new technology, but even if they all switched in 2015, that would only cover half of cars on the road today. But most cars older than that have horrible navigation and such, so it's probably not that big of a deal.
Yes, 3G is going away soon too. This will open up even more non-connected vehicles for people who so desire.
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Car companies need to EXCLUDE unnecessary tech. There, FTFY. Get a magnet, attach to dash, stick smartphone, there, all the tech you need if you want it. If I want a cell phone on wheels I want the CHOICE to do so.
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Car companies need to EXCLUDE unnecessary tech. There, FTFY. Get a magnet, attach to dash, stick smartphone, there, all the tech you need if you want it. If I want a cell phone on wheels I want the CHOICE to do so.
Yeah because my driving experience is improved by a non-integrated device I can't control the steering wheel, with a ludicrously tiny screen, and a propensity to accidentally fall off in the best case scenario, or worse staying where it is partially blocking your ability to see out of your vehicle.
Your "unnecessary tech" is now minimum expectations for many buyers, and above all is *mandatory* by regulators in many countries (See EU e-call regulation which mandates all cars have the ability to call emergenc
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How did we ever get by with driving for the first 100 years without this fabulous tech?
Re: Pros and cons (Score:2)
Same way we got by computing with punch cards.
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Car companies are obliged to provide cars have automated emergency calling in the EU since 2017 (or so).
Otherwise the cars won't be approved for road use.
If the emergency equipment can't connect to the service then the car fails inspection and is not permitted to be used.
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I'd say that car companies need as little tech as possible. My current ride piggybacks off of the paired cellphone. Car gets in a wreck? The car sends a Bluetooth command to the phone to call 911. The only thing my old ride has an antenna for is AM/FM, and XM radio. No two way communication. Firmware updates are handled by a USB drive, and the car is smart enough to have a backup of the current firmware.
I don't want useless tech. Every cool new app that is an icon on a dashboard today becomes tomorro
Suprised with 2G in Germany (Score:2)
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... like 3/4 of companies call a fax state of the art...
A fax over the PSTN is secure in ways that can't be matched by e-mail. The closest we have to this kind of security and capability is a photo by MMS or RCS. This is why online banking can be done by fax or cell phones but not by e-mail. At least that's been my experience. If I send anything by e-mail to some government agency or bank then it comes with all kinds of disclaimers on how this is insecure, I could see fraud/abuse/etc. from someone picking up the data as is passes by or whatever. The fax ma
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The Dutch version is called DigiD, the Danish version is MitID and the EU version is eIDAS, most national EU systems comply to the latter.
Since 2010 Germany has an electronic ID via the chip in their 'Ausweis', the compulsory national ID card, now they have to promote using the wallet.
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In Finland, 3G has been phased out, but 2G remains in service as it's the only cell network available in many rural areas.
I've got the general impression that newer generations of cell networks have shorter range. This is partly because they use higher carrier frequencies, but also a design choice if you want to serve tons of users in a small area, as you need a higher density of base stations. So it makes sense to maintain 2G outside the cities.
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In Finland, 3G has been phased out, but 2G remains in service as it's the only cell network available in many rural areas.
I recall reading something how 3G was phased out in the USA because of disuse but 2G remains because of so many government users. The users are things like roadside signage, utility meters, and other "internet of things" kind of applications than any voice phone calls. 3G is dead in the USA, at least as far as I know, but 2G lives on because of an abundance of government users.
I've got the general impression that newer generations of cell networks have shorter range. This is partly because they use higher carrier frequencies, but also a design choice if you want to serve tons of users in a small area, as you need a higher density of base stations. So it makes sense to maintain 2G outside the cities.
Older cellular networks use frequencies in the 800 or 900 MHz range while 4G and 5G are in the 2 GHz, 3 GHz, or 5 Hz range. Any
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Older cellular networks use frequencies in the 800 or 900 MHz range while 4G and 5G are in the 2 GHz, 3 GHz, or 5 Hz range. Any radio signal above somewhere around 30 MHz is considered "line of sight" as in there needs to be a cellular station that is high enough over the horizon to allow for a straight line between the phone and tower to where there isn't earth in the way. Lower frequencies can "bend over the horizon" better than higher frequencies but that's not likely all that different from 800 MHz and 2 GHz, both are pretty much limited to line of sight.
Ah, I didn't realize the cutoff frequency is much lower. It makes sense now that I recall the general rule of diffraction -- the wavelength should be longer than the geographic features.
2G cellular communication has become something of a "lowest common denominator" that very old and very new phones still understand. 3G didn't get this status for a variety of reasons. I expect 2G cellular networks to live on for some time yet because of the inertia on so many devices still relying upon it for communications. Some of this is from people using phones that are a decade old, but also because governments have 2G cellular "internet of things" devices that they need to keep working.
According to Finnish Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], different generations of digital cell networks can now coexist more easily thanks to software-defined radio. So keeping 2G around doesn't need much extra hardware, but it still takes its share of the bandwidth.
It's a pity that 3G has been phased out, as the step from 2G to 3G was so remar
Australia has shut down both 2G and 3G (Score:1)
Re:Australia has shut down both 2G and 3G (Score:5, Interesting)
Australia has shut down both 2G and 3G
And it's fucking awful. I live in the suburbs of our nation's capital and since the shutdown of 3G I can't get a mobile signal*. The public transport network here (and many other cities) had to replace their ticketing system because it used 3G.
Many mobile payment networks (e.g NSW trains) are either flaky, or just plain need to be thrown away and replaced. As mentioned above, ditto for alarms, remote monitoring etc.
Mountains of e-waste generated for a service that is inferior in every way. We have been sold on the promise of "faster mobile internet" but it hasn't appeared. And even if if it did, why should faster youtube/instagram for a couple of arseholes trump useful infrastructure for the rest of us?
So, this is my message, from a country that has already walked this path: don't do it! It's just a cash grab and will not benefit the majority of users.
* I have a letter from Telstra's "network team" which says that the service is inadequate in my area, and they have no plans to upgrade it. That's right, our national carrier, funded to the tune of billions of dollars a year. I live in the digital third world now.
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inferior in every way
I think you misspelled "one way". Just because that one way is critical to you doesn't mean other technologies aren't superior in literally every other way.
It's just a cash grab and will not benefit the majority of users.
I'm genuinely curious who you think the "user" of 5G is. If you're thinking yourself then you have fundamentally missed the point of the 4G-5G transition along with the reason why a core design principle was allowing 100x more devices per access point.
Hint: The government will potentially be the biggest user.
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On the plus side they can't track me if I'm indoors anymore. :)
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Lots of new dead zones in New Hampshire now too with the 3G shutdown.
It's back to 2012 coverage around here.
Progress!!!
(yes, my phone can do 5G too)
Re: Australia has shut down both 2G and 3G (Score:2)
The 5G revolution also comes with major battery pain in marginal areas. In Melbourne itâ(TM)s pretty easy to get an asymmetric link and have the phone (any type) burn through power fruitlessly retransmitting.
Iâ(TM)ve had to carry a battery bank around with me as Iâ(TM)ve been visiting more marginal areas lately.
Places like the zoo are also good 5G battery drains if youâ(TM)re using the cellular network (sending pictures to someone, for example).
Itâ(TM)s fantastic if youâ(TM)re
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The Melbourne Zoo is only a problem if you have an iPhone that doesn't support all the 4G bands used in Australia. All my Samsung phones have been fine around there. In general, 4G gives substantially better battery life than 3G. HSPA+ in particular is a massive battery drain.
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I live in the suburbs of our nation's capital and since the shutdown of 3G I can't get a mobile signal*. The public transport network here (and many other cities) had to replace their ticketing system because it used 3G.
The public transport system in Canberra had a planned upgrade from its MyWay to MyWay+ in progress many months before the 3G shut-off. Its main purpose was to modernise the ticketing system, allowing tapping on and off with ordinary credit cards or using your mobile phone. That fact that they ran close to the 3G shut-off was due to the usual government IT project delays.
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I spend time in Melbourne and Sydney, and I've had the opposite experience. For the last three years at least, 4G coverage has been better than 3G ever was. 3G was inherently a battery hog due to the modulation scheme requiring linear RF amplification. 2G GSM OTOH gave spectacular battery life, but we're never going back to that.
There are still GSM-R networks in operation in Australia to provide telemetry and communication for trains. The Melbourne metropolitan train network uses a GSM-R system. But ev
26% of an average monthly income (Score:2)
The global average cost of a smartphone is around 26% of an average monthly income, US$104.
https://a4ai.org/research/repo... [a4ai.org]
Buying an iPhone 14 Pro 128GB model costs the average American 2% of their annual salary – the second cheapest price in the world when measured in this way.
https://9to5mac.com/2023/06/21... [9to5mac.com]
That's still 24% of an average US monthly income.
It's not the same smartphone, but it seems like when people earn more, they still pay a lot for their precious.
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Future-proof this (Score:2)
Why bother shutting it down? (Score:3)
I don't understand why the providers are in such a rush to shut it down. WIth 3G I understand, because it has a fixed 5 Mhz carrier size and they want to refarm this to LTE or NR where it can actually be used. It's a waste of spectrum when so few people use it. But 2G can fit in the LTE internal guard bands (T-Mobile US does this). So it takes away no spectrum from LTE or NR. Tower equipment still supports it, and to my knowledge it doesn't diminish or reduce performance or capabilities for 4G/5G. The only downside I guess is that they need to keep the 2G core online. So why the rush to shut it down?
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