Rules for Portable Batteries on Planes Are Changing.

Several Asian airlines have tightened restrictions on portable battery chargers amid growing concerns about fire risks, following a January blaze that destroyed an Air Busan aircraft in South Korea. South Korean airlines now require passengers to keep portable chargers within arm's reach rather than in overhead bins, a rule implemented March 1 to ease public anxiety, according to the Transportation Ministry. Taiwan's EVA Air and China Airlines have banned using or charging power banks on flights but still allow them in overhead compartments.

Thai Airways announced a similar ban last Friday, citing "incidents of in-flight fires on international airlines." Battery-related incidents on U.S. airlines have increased from 32 in 2016 to 84 last year, with portable chargers identified as the most common culprit, according to Federal Aviation Administration data. The International Civil Aviation Organization has banned lithium-ion batteries from cargo holds since 2016, though no industry standard exists for regulating power banks.

battery fires on planes that you can touch

[awwshit]

> South Korean airlines now require passengers to keep portable chargers within arm's reach rather than in overhead bins

I'm curious how this helps. Its not like you are going to stamp out or smother a battery fire. If you've ever been around one of these battery fires then you know it is likely to produce a large amount of nasty smoke and unless you have a bucket of water you are not putting it out or doing anything that helps much. On a plane it is just going to burn itself out, no matter where in the cabin you put it.

Re:battery fires on planes that you can touch

[TwistedGreen]

Because if it's buried in a bag of clothes it's more likely to overheat, smoulder, and make things a lot worse. At least if you have it nearby you can react and put it in an explosion containment pie dish.

Re:

[Firethorn]

If you can get to it fast enough, the attendants can likely stuff it into a fireproof bag and maybe put it into a compartment that vents outside.
It would also help prevent setting all the clothing in the bags on fire as well.

Re:

[awwshit]

I challenge you to actually accomplish that.

Re:

[toxonix]

They'd need ceramic-coated tongs, some kind of bomb-bag and a chamber with an airlock that can be vented to the atmosphere. None of these things are standard equipment on any airplane that I've ever seen.

Re: battery fires on planes that you can touch

[johnstrass1]

Sounds like the end of season 2 of Foundation on Apple TV

Re:

[v1]

Emergency kits are already available that come with what looks like a thin oven mitt, and a sealable high temperature bag, for lithium emergencies. The mitt will give you 10 seconds or so to handle the battery, and once you toss it in the bag and zip it shut, it will go out on its own due to lack of oxygen. The bag just has to hold long enough under the extreme heat for it to run out of oxygen.

The danger with lipo packs is when they catch fire, the electrolyte decomposes and releases hydrogen, which ignit

Re:battery fires on planes that you can touch

[evanh]

The oxygen is contained in the electrolyte. Nothing can put them out. They have to burn all the fuel and go out on their own.

Either the container has to withstand the fire's extreme temperature or the battery must be ejected from the aircraft.

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[evanh]

An alternative is use battery chemistries that don't do that. Then we can ban all the high-fire risk chemistries.

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[thegarbz]

Nothing can put them out. They have to burn all the fuel and go out on their own.

Either the container has to withstand the fire's extreme temperature or the battery must be ejected from the aircraft.

That isn't true. While you can't smother the fire (foam / CO2) or cool the fire (water / CO2), you can break down the reaction with something like an F-500 extinguisher. There are several firefighting methods on the market including small hand hand-held extinguisher type devices specifically to put out lithium battery fires.

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[v1]

there's a "fire triad": heat, fuel, oxidizer. Remove any one of those to end a fire. Most fires you can put out with water because it cuts off the air AND cools it down. Lithium fires that have an oxidizer can't be put out with water because (A) they burn too hot for water to help much and (B) even though water may cut off oxygen, water CONTAINS oxygen and there's enough heat to split it off the hydrogen.

That doesn't mean you can't put it out. You just can't use water. And if it has its oxidizer (as i

Re:

[toxonix]

informative! It's good to know that it can be deprived of oxygen. I thought it might have its own oxygen supply.

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[mea_culpa]

Flight attendants trian for this. They douse it with ice and water, put it in a fireproof bag, dump ice in it and put it in the lavatory. Lavatory air is always vented outside.

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[Ian McLendon]

One...Moment...Please...fetching the pie dish now.

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[wakeboarder]

Yeah, you could always throw it out the window :)

Re:battery fires on planes that you can touch

[PPH]

Yeah, you could always throw it out the window :)

Out the open overwing exit door plug.

See? It's a feature. Not a bug.

Re:

[arglebargle_xiv]

Not sure that's a good idea, you might hit the people hanging around out there having a smoke.

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[AmiMoJo]

You are more likely to notice it expanding and smoking if you have it near you though. Even if it does catch fire without warning, being in the cabin instead of in a confined space, inside a zipped up bag, under other bags, will make it easier to prevent the fire spreading.

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[EvilSS]

A lot of commercial carriers have special bags on their planes that are specifically designed to contain lithium battery fires (google AvSax for an example). My guess is this is to a) prevent it from turning into a bigger fire by setting the contents of the bag they are in on fire and b) to make it faster to get it into a containment bag (flight attendants know how to get and use the bags).

Re: battery fires on planes that you can touch

[beelsebob]

Because knowing about the fire early can save lives. Once the fire starts, the pilots have a few minutes to get the plane on the ground and the passengers off. If you subtract the first 3-4 minutes because it was burning in an overhead locker, you have much lower chances.

You can also potentially contain the fire if you know about it early. I wonder if a light weight equivalent of a bucket of sand could be invented, it way be as simple as having a portable metal case that the flight attendants scoop the p

Re:

[thegarbz]

You're not putting it out with water anyway. Airlines have special bags on board to handle lithium fires. The problem is one of escalation. If your phone in your hand starts smoking it can be resolved instantly. If your phone in a bag in the overhead bin starts smoking, you'll have set multiple bags on fire before you've even found the source (and at that point you're going to need more than your little lithium fire response kit).

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[Kalidor]

May be they have a bag or something that can put it out. Yamato Protec developed a paper product primarily as a passive fire extinguishing system that releases potassium salt aerosols before a fire spreads out of control, that can be embedded into wall panels and the like. Its not in super wide production, but they have shown that used as a lithium battery wrap it has managed to stop battery runaways in puncture tests.

Windows Selfwaking Wake-timer is Dangerous

[BrendaEM]

Nothing like a computer that will self-start in luggage for maintenance, get 100c--to heat up the lithium.

Re:

[OrangeTide]

your laptop's UEFI/SMM firmware will shut down at a critical temperature. And your battery pack will also shut off if the temperature is exceeded, if it is using a chip to track charging/cycling or at least offers some basic thermal protection. All of this occurs regardless if you're running Windows or Linux on it.

Re:

[thegarbz]

If your computer battery can't stand the CPU at max thermal limit then the problem is not Microsoft, the problem is an unsafe design that needs to be recalled. Laptops universally run at the limits of their thermal envelope (all components are throttled at max which is why performance varies wildly on laptops even with similar specs), so your battery should equally handle you running a gaming session in the open as it does a windows update even wihle encased in aerogel.

But congrats on keeping the Slashdot t

Re:

[UnknowingFool]

I don't understand why anyone would buy a power bank except for unusual situations like camping expeditions, a phone's battery lasts for days. A laptop's battery lasts for 20 hours. Especially on a phone when any longish flight has charging ports at each seat.

Your definition of "power bank" is very specific to mean an industrial power station for things like outages and camping. Google "power bank" and what comes up is generally a battery ranging from phone sized units to camping stations.

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[Fly Swatter]

Power banks can charge a phone? Well then, sounds like a charger. I can imagine there are a significant number of people using a power bank to keep topping up their failing phone battery, people are lazy and those china made banks are really cheap compared to a proper battery replacement - more fuel to make the damn phones and tablets require a user replaceable design that doesn't take more than 3 minutes to swap out.

Does anyone really fully trust Lithium-Ion batteries anymore? They were fine when they w

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[Fly Swatter]

Times are changing pal, if it has a USB port, it is also a charger. Checking that Tesla as baggage might pose a problem though.

Re:

[sodul]

I see several holes in your reasoning, at least for common folks.

Battery capacity: most folks don't have a brand new phone or laptop that last the 'advertised' times from the marketing department. Some of us buy used devices and keep them for several years.

Not all airplanes, even long courier ones, provide a USB port for each seat, more less so a USB-C one.

Some folks do fly as a stage to a hiking destination, so they might need to to bring a power bank with them.

I don't travel a whole lot but when I visit f

Re:

[anoncoward69]

There's such things as USB-A to USB-C cables. You can probably get one off amazon for 99 cents or get raped in an airport convenience store and pay $20 for the same thing. I honestly prefer charger bricks with USB-A ports and USB-A to USB-C cables. USB-C plugs pull out of their port far too easily. I'd rather have USB-A at the brick which is probably going to be plugged into some outlet behind a piece of furniture. If the cable pulls out of my phone thats not a huge issue to deal with. When it pulls out of

Re:

[MooseTick]

"a phone's battery lasts for days. A laptop's battery lasts for 20 hours."

Neither are true for 98% of phones or laptops, especially if they are actively being used. Try watching a movie on a phone or laptop (a common use while on a plane) and let us know how long they last.

Re: bruh

[unami]

Well, my phone battery doesn't last for days and never has. I have a powerbank for long workdays in the field, camping, or when I just want to charge something while using it - e.g. a game controller. Or my bike's lights when I'm nowhere near an outlet. You don't have to understand this but your lack of understanding doesn't make it less real.

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[anoncoward69]

Power banks are handy in all kinds of situations. On public transit with no passenger accessible chargers, sitting out in a park. At a table at a restaurant or bar. for extended power outages. Everyone should have at least one power bank that's kept charged just for an emergency situation. Preferably one that has the capacity to full charge your phone at least 2-3 times. They can provide lighting in an emergency, some have lights built in or you can get a small string of LED lights that will plug into a USB

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[Kernel Kurtz]

Power banks than can boost a car or truck are not terribly expensive (I have a NOCO), and you can also use those for charging various and sundry small electronic items as well. Excellent to carry with you for safety if you drive, and handy for car camping too.

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[jonwil]

A power bank does contain battery charging circuitry.

I'm wondering

[wakeboarder]

What brands are starting on fire. Are they cheap uncertfied brands? (Chinese)

Backup battery

[toxonix]

I have a backup battery that looks like some kind of military equipment. It's made in China. It's OD green. It has the shape of a small canteen, or could be mistaken for a dead-man switch or bomb remote. Or a hand grenade for those who don't know what they look like.
Pretty sure it wouldn't pass TSA even if it is just a laptop-sized battery in a water resistant case.

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[anoncoward69]

Sounds like a Nestout power bank. I've got several of them for camping along with the lighting and solar charging accessories.

What is a "portable charger"?

[OldMugwump]

Article is paywalled.

What do they mean by "portable chargers"? I hear people call USB cables "chargers" and others call USB power bricks (AC --> 5VDC) "chargers".

Maybe they mean portable battery banks?

--Confused

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[EvilSS]

Yea I was scratching my head for a minute on that too. I'm pretty sure they mean power banks. There is no way an unplugged wall wart is going to spontaneously catch fire.

Re:

[jonwil]

Reading what's out there is clear they are referring to the kind of portable external battery banks people use to have extra battery capacity for their devices.

Re:

[thegarbz]

--Confused

Why are you confused? Of all the things you listed it could be, only a single one of them contains lithium batteries which could catch fire. Pick that one and you'll understand what the article is talking about.

Thank Goodness

[bill_mcgonigle]

For some period of time any battery over 10Ah could only be brought in checked baggage.

That seemed like the craziest possible "solution" to me. This is far superior.

skin in the game

[groobly]

They should require keeping them in your breast pocket. Literally forcing passengers to have some skin in the game if the things burn.

Israel are laughing

[Shakes Fist]

Seeing as Israel successfully demonstrated what can be done with phone/pager batteries, I'm still trying to understand whay ANY devices are allowed in planes.