'Why Did the Government Declare War on My Adorable Tiny Truck?' (bloomberg.com) 165
Automotive historian Dan Albert loves the "adorable tiny truck" he's driving. It's one of the small Japan-made "kei" pickups and minivans that "make up about a third of car sales in Japan." Americans can legally import older models for less than $10,000, and getting 40 miles per gallon they're "Cheap to buy and run... rugged, practical, no-frills machines — exactly what the American-built pickup truck used to be."
But unfortunately, kei buyers face "bureaucratic roadblocks that states like Massachusetts have erected to keep kei cars and trucks out of the hands of U.S. drivers." Several state departments of motor vehicles (DMVs) have balked at registering the imported machines, saying that they're too unsafe for American streets. Owners have responded with a righteous mix of good humor, lobbying and lawsuits... Kei trucks do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, or FMVSS — the highly specific rules US-market new cars must meet. But since 1988, the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act has exempted vehicles that are at least 25 years old from these crash safety standards, allowing drivers to bring over vintage European and Asian market models...
Getting insurance coverage was the next barrier, as the company that had long been underwriting the Albert family's fleet also rejected me, forcing me to seek out a specialty "collector car" insurer. (I did eventually get regular coverage....) Maine, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Virginia, and Michigan also tightened their rules on registering small Japanese imports in recent years. The culprit, according to the auto enthusiast press, was the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, the trade organization that serves as the lobbying and policy arm of DMVs across North America. Much of AAMVA's work involves integrating the databases of the 69 US and Canadian motor vehicle jurisdictions who are its members, so that a car stolen in one state can't be titled in another... The kei truck's regulatory troubles can be traced to a 2011 AAMVA report, "Best Practices Regarding Registration and Titling of Mini-Trucks," which called for outright bans and encouraged DMVs to lobby state legislatures to outlaw keis entirely.
The Insurance Institute of Highway Safety concurred, telling AAMVA that its recommendation did not go far enough: The IIHS said that keis should join the class of conveyances that the U.S. government calls Low Speed Vehicles, which are mechanically limited to 25 miles per hour or less and should be used only for short local trips on low-speed-limit roads because they can't protect occupants in the event of a collision with a regular vehicle... [But] By 2008, Japan's kei trucks did feature crumple zones and driver airbags in compliance with that country's safety standards...
Despite its name, the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act that lets older cars into the US from overseas isn't really about safety: Car industry lobbyists secured passage of the law to protect dealer profits. Newer keis — which are banned — are safer and cleaner than the 25-year-old ones that can be imported now. (Battery-powered keis debuted in 2009.) But even mine has an airbag, front crumple zone, seatbelt pretensioners, and anti-lock brakes.
The article notes that kie fans have "a distinctly libertarian streak... Some owners I've talked to report forging titles, setting up shell companies in Montana and finding other means of skirting DMV rules."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.
But unfortunately, kei buyers face "bureaucratic roadblocks that states like Massachusetts have erected to keep kei cars and trucks out of the hands of U.S. drivers." Several state departments of motor vehicles (DMVs) have balked at registering the imported machines, saying that they're too unsafe for American streets. Owners have responded with a righteous mix of good humor, lobbying and lawsuits... Kei trucks do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, or FMVSS — the highly specific rules US-market new cars must meet. But since 1988, the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act has exempted vehicles that are at least 25 years old from these crash safety standards, allowing drivers to bring over vintage European and Asian market models...
Getting insurance coverage was the next barrier, as the company that had long been underwriting the Albert family's fleet also rejected me, forcing me to seek out a specialty "collector car" insurer. (I did eventually get regular coverage....) Maine, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Virginia, and Michigan also tightened their rules on registering small Japanese imports in recent years. The culprit, according to the auto enthusiast press, was the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, the trade organization that serves as the lobbying and policy arm of DMVs across North America. Much of AAMVA's work involves integrating the databases of the 69 US and Canadian motor vehicle jurisdictions who are its members, so that a car stolen in one state can't be titled in another... The kei truck's regulatory troubles can be traced to a 2011 AAMVA report, "Best Practices Regarding Registration and Titling of Mini-Trucks," which called for outright bans and encouraged DMVs to lobby state legislatures to outlaw keis entirely.
The Insurance Institute of Highway Safety concurred, telling AAMVA that its recommendation did not go far enough: The IIHS said that keis should join the class of conveyances that the U.S. government calls Low Speed Vehicles, which are mechanically limited to 25 miles per hour or less and should be used only for short local trips on low-speed-limit roads because they can't protect occupants in the event of a collision with a regular vehicle... [But] By 2008, Japan's kei trucks did feature crumple zones and driver airbags in compliance with that country's safety standards...
Despite its name, the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act that lets older cars into the US from overseas isn't really about safety: Car industry lobbyists secured passage of the law to protect dealer profits. Newer keis — which are banned — are safer and cleaner than the 25-year-old ones that can be imported now. (Battery-powered keis debuted in 2009.) But even mine has an airbag, front crumple zone, seatbelt pretensioners, and anti-lock brakes.
The article notes that kie fans have "a distinctly libertarian streak... Some owners I've talked to report forging titles, setting up shell companies in Montana and finding other means of skirting DMV rules."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader schwit1 for sharing the article.
Jim Farley and the Chinese Electric Sedan (Score:4, Interesting)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/n... [roadandtrack.com]
Ford CEO drives a Chinese electric sedan he "flew in from Shanghai."
Yes, he is doing "market research", but did he pull any strings to get tags and insurance for this vehicle in Michigan?
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I figure that it'd be like a dealer tag but more so.
Tags: Use the company "dealer" tags - no need for registration.
Insurance: GM's commercial insurance.
Same deal as with other GM test vehicles, concept cars, and such.
Things like the turbine car GM drove across the country.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Jim Farley and the Chinese Electric Sedan (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
but did he pull any strings
Did he need to? TFS is talking about a very different car. The SU7 from your link is a premium car also sold in Europe. It meets all road safety requirements in America, and it's not illegal or even difficult to import a car in America. You can do it yourself as well.
profits (Score:4, Funny)
You will buy a CyberTruck and you will like it!
Disintermediation in vehicles (Score:5, Interesting)
I am looking forward to someone who will build the equivalent of a 1971 Ford F150 pickup with the bare minimum extras needed to make it meet Federal and state regulations. The truck being built with as few computers as possible, pounds of less copper, mechanical instrument dials, AC, mechanical windows / door locks, and power steering / power brakes.
Just the minimum needed to meet current road regulations and built with decent quality steel, metals and as little plastic, foam, resin as possible.
Something that will last, is easy to work on (say distributor cap + rotor if it meets regulations), and has the most fuel efficient not-computer controlled motor.
The idea is to trade all the tens of thousands spent on computers, seat warmers, subscription based touchscreen panel services, etc. and spend them on making the mechanical part of the truck more reliable and long lived.
Drastically lowering the price from the $39,000 MSRP of the 2025 low-end model https://www.caranddriver.com/f... [caranddriver.com]
Re: Disintermediation in vehicles (Score:2)
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Couldn't we build this as an EV instead? Those have even fewer parts, no emissions, etc. Seems plausible.
Really, I like this little truck and wish we could just import and register modern ones with all the new safety features and gadgetry. Sure, I could aftermarket stuff to upgrade the little truck, but I really love it.
That, or bring back the El Camino. Both EV and ICEV.
Agree. Pick your own vehicle (Score:3)
Modular design - Didn't GM propose this about 20 years ago and the auto parts industry and car dealerships revolt?
1) Module 1 - Pick your chassis, frame, suspension
2) Module 2 - Pick your power train - engine, transmission, etc.
3) Module 3 - Pick your body and cab and interior
Toyota, Ford or GM could simply build the most basic, well built, nothing extra added equivalent to a 1970s Ford F150 with the minimal extras to meet federal and state regulations. There are fleet vehicles sold today which get less th
It's about state tax revenue (Score:5, Informative)
FTA - Several state departments of motor vehicles (DMVs) have balked at registering the imported machines, saying that they're too unsafe for American streets.
No. It's really about new car sales create state sales tax revenue. Importing old inexpensive
So maybe $4000 of which is $200 state sales tax to import a basic, reliable vehicle which is easy to work on compared to paying 5% to 7% sales tax on a $40,000 vehicle. https://www.policygenius.com/a... [policygenius.com]
https://www.reddit.com/r/keitr... [reddit.com]
Importing is not terribly difficult. There are steps to it, but it’s pretty straightforward. You do save quite a bit of money, and 90% of the time, (if you do your due diligence) it’ll be in decent condition. For the risk-averse, non-mechanically inclined, I don’t really advise it. If you have realistic expectations for a $2000 vehicle, you’ll be very happy. Keep in mind that you should expect to spend an additional $700 once it’s here, not including costs to get it from the port to your house. Import duty will be 25% of the purchase price (NOT purchase and shipping), so about $250. Port/wharfage fees will be $176. ISF filing is $25. If you use a customs broker, they’ll charge around $200. If the port you go to requires a TWIC escort, that’s about $100.
Parts availability isn’t really an issue. Lots of basic stuff is at your auto parts store. Everything else is in stock at G&R Imports in Jackson, MO (they ship) or from Harley Rose on eBay.
"
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
For starters, cars are electronically complex now (i.e., they must have air bags, must have power-train computers, must have back-up cameras, must have anti-lock brakes, etc.) and their parts are usually not in
Re: Disintermediation in vehicles (Score:2)
Hell, the Chevy Caprice from the 1980s would be a huge seller, simply drop a more fuel-efficient power train [1] in thing and sit back and watch the orders flow in from cab companies, police departments, and the "stay off my lawn!" crowd.
[1] An EV would be an option, but a cleaner, higher-mileage ICE could be good too...
Re: profits (Score:2)
Except, you know, they designed and built them before Elon got political, and the CyberTruck get no additional or increased subsidies compared to other EVs, but sure, we'll all just smile and nod as you try and force your Musk/Tesla derangement syndrome into a thread that has nothing to do with either Tesla OR Musk.
Just saw one of these (Score:2)
On my way into work last week, one of these trucks, in that blue color, was parked outside a Monroe Muffler place. Thought it looked cute. The road has a 35 mph speed limit, but the usual speed is 40 or a bit more.
Re: Just saw one of these (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: Just saw one of these (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Land of the free"? Hah! Get those lazy cops arresting pedestrians and deporting them to El Salvador. That'll teach them to get longer legs and learn to drive before puberty.
Re: Just saw one of these (Score:2)
Arresting pedestrians? Where? Oh, do you mean pedestrians that entered the country illegally, commit violent/serious crimes, and have exhausted all possible amnesty claims in immigration court? Those pedestrians?
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Re: Just saw one of these (Score:2)
They get taken out of the streets in Europe, if they tune the speed limited to higher speeds. It is relatively trivial to remove the speed limiter on most ebike, especially one Chinese brands. If cops in Paris see you going over 25kph, especially without pedaling then they will likely take the bike away.
Now these are common on the Tour de France, yet they let the riders do it, pretending to not notice anything. They tell the teams ahead of time to get the bikes ready for inspection, just like they did with
Re: Just saw one of these (Score:4, Insightful)
There's the thing. Road safety says these things are unsafe so we should ban them. No word about the multi ton small penis compensators many Americans drive around. Maybe the unsafe thing is being surrounded by American cars, especially when you look at the road fatality rate in the USA compared to Japan where these things are common.
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Re: Just saw one of these (Score:2)
In Japan you can not buy a car with proof you have a parking space for it - that kinda cuts down on car ownership/influences the makeup of the population that own cars in Japan.
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The only solution I can see if that vehicles over a certain size have to replace the airbags with spikes that stab you in the face in the event of an accident. Otherwise the arms race to own ever bigger cars will go on forever.
Re: Just saw one of these (Score:2)
Bigger cars are safer for their occupants, smaller cars are at increased risks when involved in accidents with bigger cars.
It's not my fault you chose to drive on the highway in a motorized coffin.
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They are quite useful around the local orchards, and cheaper than a utility vehicle.
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Highways (Score:5, Informative)
Japan is a lot more densely urbanized than the USA, so a truck like this makes sense. Also, the Japanese are more acclimated high density living (smaller roads, smaller homes (A US home is twice as big as a typical Japanese home, and they have tighter parking availability). Plus, the Japanese on average are a couple inches shorter and weigh less, they are OK with a little less space.
Re:Highways (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Highways (Score:5, Informative)
Because automobiles are dangerous and your choices don't just affect you. Drive whatever you want on your freedom compound, just keep your deathtrap off public roads.
A vehicle like this is significantly less dangerous for othe vehicles than any normal-sized truck or even your average EV due to it having so little mass. From a quick Google search, a Kei pickup is about 800Kg/1750lbs, a Kei minivan is about 1000Kg/2200lbs. A normal truck or an EV can be easily double that.
Against a person of course it can be just as deadly, but I don't see why it would be more dangerous and banned compared to e.g. a Ford F150...
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False. While overall vehicle impact energy may be lower, there's less stopping distance when the vehicle is small as in the distance for the front of the vehicle to collapse and also the amount of energy the vehicle would absorb without passing it to the passenger. Reference: https://www.iihs.org/topics/ve... [iihs.org]
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Not only that, but that’s the entire mindset thing here: US vehicles are somewhat safer for occupants at the expense of all other road users, while non-US vehicles like Kei cars are somewhat less safe for occupants, but massively safer for all other road users.
It’s a textbook example of American prioritisation of the self over others.
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Kei trucks are only safer "for all other road users" because all other cars are bigger, and the car that loses the the energy equation between the 2 colliding cars will always be the less safe for its own occupants.
I.e., if we all get in Kei cars- then they're just as dangerous.
US cars are generally all big, and as such, they're not less safe for "all other road users", since the energy equation is close to equalized, just like our hypothetical world of all Kei trucks.
Now, when w
Re:Highways (Score:5, Insightful)
You are wrong on multiple levels:
1. Not all other road users are in cars. Pedestrians, cyclists etc — all of whom are especially important in the most common settings for Kei vehicles, which are urban. But the absence of these people from your thinking speaks volumes about the car-centric culture of the US.
2. KE = 1/2 mv squared. If two Kei vans collide, they are *not* just as dangerous for the occupants as two trucks colliding, because the Kei cars are lighter and slower, leading to much lower levels of kinetic energy to be dissipated
3. Kei vans have inherently better visibility than trucks, because there’s no giant hood obscuring your view of the road ahead. So they will be involved in fewer accidents. This is but one of the ways they are engineered to meet pedestrian safety regulations, while US trucks are not engineered to meet any US pedestrian safety regulations, because those regulations don’t exist
4. Kei vans’ design is inherently supportive of driving calmly and defensively, by comparison with trucks. No massive bull bars, giant tyres, etc. Drivers are on average going to be less amped up in Kei vans than in trucks, once again leading to fewer collisions etc.
Re:Highways (Score:4, Insightful)
Ye gods, did you really try to argue that two heavy things striking causes less harm to the things than two light things striking? Jesus fucking Christ on a very light bike. You are an absolute dimwit. This is so absurdly wrong it’s quite incredible to see. You witter on about mass fractions but are incapable of thinking through the most basic physics. You’re a complete buffoon. I mean, really, one of the most stupid people I’ve ever come across, and it really is something because you think you’re clever, but you can’t even understand that when two heavy things smack into each other, it causes more damage than when two light things smack into each other. What a complete cock you are. There are dog turds in the street with more ability to reason than you.
“Study after study”, what a load of shite you spout. Study after study shows the blindingly obvious truth, that increasing vehicle size (both mass and height, especially hood height), causes increasing harms to pedestrians and cyclists.
You are a contemptible prick for arguing there’s no link, as well as being stupid and ill-informed. It’s almost impossible for me to put into words the contempt I feel for people like you, arguing that black is white and thinking you’re clever when you’re so fucking dumb.
Here’s just a few of the many examples of the studies showing the link exists, and that getting rammed by a giant truck at 30mph when you’re on your bike is going to be a shit load more likely to seriously injure or kill you than getting rammed by a Kei van or a small car going at the same speed.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]
https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com]
https://www.sciencedirect.com/... [sciencedirect.com].
https://www.iihs.org/news/deta... [iihs.org]
“ Fatal pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes have been on the rise in the United States since 2009. This rise in fatalities coincides with the rise of large vehicles on American roadways, continuing a trend that began years earlier. Method: Through rare access to both crash and hospital records, this report investigates the relationship between striking vehicle type and medical outcomes of pedestrian and pedalcyclist cases. Results: Results suggest that children are eight times more likely to die when struck by a SUV compared to those struck by a passenger car. Passenger cars were the striking vehicle in most fatal pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes, though they were underrepresented relative to the proportion of all crashes in which they were involved. Though pickup trucks were the striking vehicle in just 5.6% of pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes, they were involved in 12.6% of fatalities. SUVs were similarly overrepresented in fatalities relative to the proportion of their involvement in all crashes. SUVs struck 14.7% of the pedestrians and pedalcyclists investigated here, but were involved in 25.4% of the fatalities. Head and thorax injury severities are examined by vehicle type and age. Hospital charges of pedestrian and pedalcycle crash victims are also analyzed by striking vehicle type and victim age.”
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One factor that DOES affect other road users is that headlights on right-hand-drive-market vehicles have the wrong dipped beam pattern for USA highways. I would guess that not a lot of kei trucks' parts bins have LHD headlamps available for easy swap.
Re: Highways (Score:2)
Pro tip: head lights can, and periodically should, be manually adjusted by a professional shop. Individually.
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For reference that weight puts these cars as *HEAVIER* than many European city cars. The wife's car is 790kg, and has a 4 star NCAP safety rating for the occupant in crash tests. So maybe if these cars are so unsafe the problem isn't the size or weight, but potentially what they are surrounded by? The road fatalities per mile driven and per vehicle registered in the USA vs Japan is quite telling too.
Re:Highways (Score:5, Insightful)
Because automobiles are dangerous and your choices don't just affect you. Drive whatever you want on your freedom compound, just keep your deathtrap off public roads.
To be fair we let bicycles and scooters mix with cars, trucks, and buses. Safety standards have value but they don't preclude you from taking additional, informed risk.
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Plus also America is notorious for having safety standards that doesn't include vehicles colliding with anything other than cars and up. This is why the Cybertruck is illegal in the UK: it's lethal to pedestrians and that's not allowed here. Japan does, which means you're not allowed to choose a vehicle that's less safe for you but safer for third parties, on the grounds of safety.
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but we'll pass thanks.
Your roads are about 5 times more dangerous than the UK, so do your needless deaths (America! Pro life AND pro death! USA! USA! USA!) and we'll not do ours.
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Canada is as bad as America in regards of road safety.
Do you think people should have the freedom to unload a firearm in the direction of a crowd as long as they don't happen to injure anyone? If not, why so you hate freedom?
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If they actually were "deathtraps", I might agree
They are safely driven in many other countries
Our laws are way to restrictive. We're drowning in laws and rules
Re:Highways (Score:5, Insightful)
Those kei trucks are great for urban areas though, where the density is pretty high. If you do deliveries in a downtown area, having a smaller truck is great for zipping around packed streets and fitting into small parking spaces.
That's why people love them. Also, they're very efficient on gas.
If you need the ability to carry a lot of stuff, but a pickup like the F-150 is too big to go around downtown, a Kei is really good because they can haul a lot more than a car, without taking much more footprint.
Of course, the main reason they're illegal is not safety, it's because they're small, lightweight, great on gas, and that is not the general messaging the Big 3 want to make. Because big trucks and SUVs are way more profitable per vehicle than a smaller truck.
The reason they're illegal is heavy lobbying by the car companies to make them illegal because they don't want to compete with people finding smaller trucks much more useful for going around town, especially for work trucks and such. Pickup trucks are used for work, and if you're forced to buy a $70,000 F-150 that gets 8mpg even if it's way more truck than you need, that's better for Ford than if you discover you can get a Kei car for $15,000 all in, that gets 30mpg and you can actually park it and go about your day.
The Big 3 have been giving a narrative that only big vehicles will do since the late 80s, which is why there's the rise of the SUV as the family hauler over say, the station wagon. Or why SUVs over minivans.
Part of the auto tariffs is because the Big 3 refuse to make smaller more efficient vehicles and that's a niche that Japanese and other foreign makes did to invade the US in the 70s.
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I have a 2002 Tacoma, the last year that I could still buy an actual 'small pickup', the next year's Tacoma was the size of the previous year's Tundra. It's a five speed with the smallest four-banger they sold, and it's more truck than most people will ever need. My dad ran his remodeling business in the '90s with a six cylinder Dakota until the body rot got so bad the doors were falling off. He hated the 8-cylinder F-150 that replaced it.
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Re: Highways (Score:2)
I canâ(TM)t believe it hasnâ(TM)t been mentioned in this thread already. Mercedes-Benz didnâ(TM)t make it illegal. Technically, what happened, was that all vehicles were illegal, and Bill Gates wanted to import. I think a 983 or something. And he lobby to have that 25 year clause so he could import his Porsche.
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Also, they're very efficient on gas.
This is actually not true. The maximum size of the engine (due to licensing requirements) is 660 cc. And while it is true that smaller engines generally consume less fuel, this is not always the case.
One achieves more power from a given engine displacement by revving to higher RPM. Power equals torque times RPM so if you can increase the RPM with minimal impact on torque then you will generate more power.
With a 660 cc limit you can break it into 4 cylinders with each cylinder having a relatively sho
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People seem to think that kei trucks and cars are just smaller versions of what they see around them, but they aren't. They are surprisingly spacious on the inside, and the trucks are extremely practical, often having a larger bed than a Cybertruck of F-150.
https://i.redd.it/9vxnxud2hn3b... [i.redd.it]
Being lower the beds are easier to use too. They aren't just shrunk down versions, they are extremely well engineered to make the most efficient use of space. The cars are great too, with features like sliding doors that
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Kei vehicles must conform to specific requirements and are designed for use as farm or work vehicles. It is a class of vehicles with minimal licensing / insurance costs. The Japanese government does not want everyone using such vehicles, just those that require them to minimize the cost of doing business. As such, they are very simple, very inexpensive, and kind of crappy. Designed for rural areas - not urban.
The size limitations of the Kei vehicles are not because Japanese are smaller but is because
The US cannot compete (Score:3, Insightful)
* threatens
* tariffs
* sanctions
* coup d'etats
* assassinates
* bombs
* invades
Why? (Score:3)
Kei trucks do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, or FMVSS â" the highly specific rules US-market new cars must meet.
Why must any vehicle I purchase have to meet these standards? Just tell me it is/is not safe and let me be the judge of what I buy.
I can buy an electric cargo bicycle and not meet ANY safety standards. I can ride a Harley and stick my kid in a side car.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I do wonder if that'll change when the economy continuously gets worse
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I do wonder if that'll change when the economy continuously gets worse and people can just no longer afford to buy these big vehicles anymore but are still required to have a personal vehicle. I'm not entirely sure how that's going to play out
E-bikes/E-scooters for people who only have to haul themselves from point A to B. Street legal conversions of UTVs, golf carts, etc. for people who need a bit more passenger and/or cargo space. Uber, robotaxis or some other ride-as-a-service for those times when none of the above will cut it.
It's clear that you haven't looked at what it actually costs to import a vehicle from Japan if you believe this is yet another war on the poors. It costs a lot of money to get one of those trucks into the country, an
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Actually no, they're not that expensive.
https://www.kei-trucks.com/ [kei-trucks.com]
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So what if they can't go on the interstate?
Mopeds and under-100cc vehicles (or more -depends on state) are explicitly exempted from requiring DMV involvement.
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I think the problem is they can't get to very high speed. Most of them can't hit highway speeds for example.
How is that a problem? My bicycle can't hit highway speeds and fun fact, it's not legal to cycle on the highway for that reason. By the way most of these cars have a top speed of around 75mph which is more than adequate.
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It's probably not going to be "people" making these decisions that provide the critical mass. It'll be businesses.
If you're running a delivery company in a city - where your fleet of delivery vehicles rarely get to 25mph, and a shiftload of deliveries weighs under 500kg, this would totally fit your business needs. Buying 10 of these for the cost of (say) 2 standard penis extension "trucks" would pay for a lot of fighting with the DMV or wha
Re: Why? (Score:2)
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you know its about money, not safety.
Safety should be about what I can do to other people or their property, not do to myself.
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you know its about money, not safety.
Safety should be about what I can do to other people or their property, not do to myself.
When all the "slippery when wet" signs are replaced with "wet" signs, we can talk. Most developed nations are highly litigious and consumers who are injured are very quick to shift blame from themselves to anyone else. Buy a coffee and spill it on yourself? Sue because it's "too hot".
I guarantee you if we removed all the safety features from cars to shave down the price, there'll be a sudden upsurge in people suing from their wheelchairs.
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Kei trucks do not meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, or FMVSS â" the highly specific rules US-market new cars must meet.
Why must any vehicle I purchase have to meet these standards? Just tell me it is/is not safe and let me be the judge of what I buy.
I can buy an electric cargo bicycle and not meet ANY safety standards. I can ride a Harley and stick my kid in a side car.
You can buy an electric bike, but there are restrictions on where you can ride them, e.g., not on highways. Similarly, you can buy this small truck, but there are restrictions on where you can drive them. On your private property is fine, but not on public roads. There is a similar restriction for ATVs.
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I can drive an electric bike on public roads (not highways). Why not a kei truck? We have ATVs on our public roads (not highways).
The whole "You can't drive that here because laws. We wrote laws so you can't drive that here" is circular logic with no basis in science or common sense.
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Doesn't mean they are there legally.
They have license plates.
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According to Wikipedia, one can drive a microcar on public roads in USA. Currently: Commuter Cars Tango, Myers Motors NmG (or Corbin Sparrow), and the Smart Fortwo (not marketed as microcar, but similar form factor). Does not make sense to allow micro-cars and forbid micro-trucks.
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Most states they're perfectly legal to license and drive on public roads, although they can't get up to the minimum speed for freeways so that's not allowed.
Because someone stands to profit from it (Score:2)
Why? This is America, things happen because someone is going to profit from it, that's why.
Could there be any other reason?
Yeah, can't imagine why this hasn't caught on (Score:2)
At the end of the day, that 25-year-old vehicle with absolutely no warranty from Japan is gonna cost you almost as much as a decent used car. Plus, ever since the bottom fell out of used EV prices, if your goal is just getting something that's economical to drive you'd probably be better off considering a used EV instead.
Realistically, the people who like these things are into the idea of owning a quirky little vehicle. There's not a whole lot of logical practicality in paying a bunch of money to import a
Re: Yeah, can't imagine why this hasn't caught on (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice try, but most of these vehicles are way better than what American market vehicles get.
Think 50mpg truck with an 8ft bed, hydraulic dump, air suspension, manual transmission, and four wheel drive.
These compete with F-150s and F250s for light farm use. People who need the bed and not the towing or 10mpg. People who want to wrench on their own car without dealer locks. Stuff American market companies just refuse to allow or produce.
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These compete with F-150s and F250s for light farm use. People who need the bed and not the towing or 10mpg.
Most people are using side-by-sides for this now, and some models are getting damn car-like (and cost as much). A case could be made for road use there too. And of course once you entertain SxS maybe I could get a Ariel Atom for street use. That would be so cool.
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But they don't do highway speeds. That's a non-starter here in the USA, where I've even seen people legitimately complain that the Chevy Bolt maxes out at somewhere around 93 MPH (no, I haven't tested it for myself). Why in the hell would anyone ever need to go that fast in the first place is beyond me, but there it is.
Then you've also got the situation here in the USA where people just own trucks because they're "cool". The owners don't do actual truck stuff with them, so a truck that has all its stats
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Texas has an 85 MPH highway. Here in Florida, 70 MPH limits are quite common on the highways. You drive a truck that maxes out at 60-70 MPH on one of these roads and you genuinely are creating a hazard. Plus, there's no way the engine is going to enjoy being run wide open throttle for your whole damn trip.
Course, if you're making the argument that they'd be just fine to sit in traffic on I-95 in Miami, I'm not gonna disagree there. But the fact remains that the average American car buyer has an expectat
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We also had our own American versions of this which unfortunately have been embiggened like the rest of our cars; these were your Ford Rangers or Gen1/Gen2 Tacoma, Chevy S-10, the 90's style Dakota, your actual small pickup trucks. Things like the Maverick and Santa Cruz are kindof a version of that but there really isn't the option anymore outside of getting a fleet style trimmed to gills pickup. The Tacoma today is like the size of a full size pickup from the 90's.
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Japan has super strict vehicle inspections. Those trucks are in better shape than your average rusted shitbox doing highway speeds on bald tires.
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Japan has super strict vehicle inspections. Those trucks are in better shape than your average rusted shitbox doing highway speeds on bald tires.
After 25 years, even the best Japanese engineering starts showing its age. When they say Japanese vehicles are reliable, they're talking about the first decade and a half or so of use. Beyond that, all bets are off - things will start breaking just like every other used car. By that age, electrical systems begin getting wonky, every piece of rubber is in need of replacement, and even the interior can start getting pretty ragged.
That's not even getting into what a pain in the ass it is to source parts for
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Never traveled in the Third World, have you? In lots of areas **ALL** the non-commercial vehicles are Japanese and well over a decade and a half old. They drive on roads that make logging trails look like the Autobahn, carrying multiple times their rated capacity, and most of them have never seen a dealership-quality shop since they arrived in the country. The worldwide spare parts market for older Japanese vehicles is enormous, my brother-in-law can still buy factory-produced parts for his 2005 Suzuki s
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This is also missing the point. Japan insures by engine displacement size. So you are completely disincentivized from driving larger vehicles because their insurance is substantially more.
The main reason why kei cars will never see the light of day is because they are too dangerous between the climate and the other larger vehicles driving by people who think they own the road.
Let's say for a minute that they were unbanned and people were allowed to buy them and could only be bought in states that impose ins
Toyota Hilux Champ Pickup should be sold in the US (Score:2)
https://www.carscoops.com/2023... [carscoops.com]
In the urban and suburbs it would be perfect.
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I wish Volkswagen still sold something like their Rabbit Pickup. Nicest and toughest truck I've ever owned, and definitely the most comfortable to drive. I haven't tried the Amarok, since they're not available here, but they look bigger and with more bells and whistles than I really need.
US manufacturers (Score:3)
Because US manufacturers want to force people to buy gigantic (and profitable) trucks and SUVs.
The Rules? (Score:2)
They don't apply to me.
But that's also kind of a reasonable view. Since writing your state's representatives seems to be meaningless unless you wrap it with a SuperPAC donation.
Booming business (Score:2)
My son was interested in possibly getting a K truck, so we drove about an hour to a place in North Carolina that imports them. They have van-style, truck-style, and even fire trucks and versions with a beds that lift / dump. They are all right-hand drive. I think most were $8k, with fancier ones going for $10-$11k. They are made by a few different companies (Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Honda, Daihatsu), and each brand has its own little stylistic details.
Unfortunately my son is 6'4" and just cannot fit in these thi
Modern rules for safety (Score:3)
Modern safety rules ate insane. IMHO, they have become counterproductive. We needed a new car two years ago, replacing a much older vehicle. We looked at various models and - universally - the visibility is terrible. Fat pillars, headrests, etc. All add to safety inside, but the poor visibility makes accidents more likely.
Add in the increased size and weight. We wanted a smaller car, but "smaller" today us a lot different from 20 years ago.
Honestly, it's crazy. Can I have my '66 bug back?
1986 compact trucks (Score:2)
I had an '85 Nissan Pickup. I would love one today. It was 15 feet by 5.5ft wide by 5ft tall and under 2500 libs. A Ford Ranger is 17.5x6x6 ft and over 4000 lbs.
I don't need power windows, locks. I'd like to be able to hose out the floor too.
Goverment Made Streets Unsave for Small Vehicles (Score:2)
Irony (Score:2)
Imagine filling the streets with high-momentum low-visibility vehicles, and then calling a light vehicle unsafe.
Re:He answered his own question: (Score:5, Insightful)
But, right there in the summary:
Despite its name, the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act that lets older cars into the US from overseas isn't really about safety: Car industry lobbyists secured passage of the law to protect dealer profits. Newer keis — which are banned — are safer and cleaner than the 25-year-old ones that can be imported now. (Battery-powered keis debuted in 2009.) But even mine has an airbag, front crumple zone, seatbelt pretensioners, and anti-lock brakes.
Re: (Score:2)
Doubleplusungood.
Yes, I do understand the references I'm implying in my choice of words.
Re: He answered his own question: (Score:5, Insightful)
Could not be more wrong. The law was originally created because Mercedes sold their expensive high-end vehicles in Europe cheaper than they would in America. So much cheaper that rich people were importing the Mercedes from Europe instead of buying them here in the USA.
The law was created originally to prevent this behavior and allow the corporation to use the cheap labor from everywhere across the world, but to stop consumers from âoegoing aroundâ artificially high prices set in their country.
The law specifically stated after 25 years anything could be imported after those profits were done being protected.
Never was about safety. Not to mention vehicles cannot be mass produced in any country that I know of unless they follow that country safety laws. Most countries safety laws are rather similar and not being compliant is usually something dumb like the height of a bumper off of the ground in millimeters or the location of a placard in millimeters.
The basic safety concepts have been nailed and are required in all countries on the planet.
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Ironically, you are wrong about “ The basic safety concepts have been nailed and are required in all countries on the planet.” but in an interesting way. The US has *no* requirements for cars to be safe for other road users. None, nada, zilch. Almost every other country says that a car must, for example, not have sharp edges on its exterior that can harm a pedestrian in a collision (here’s looking at you, Cybertruck). But not the US. This is one crucial reason why pedestrian deaths in the