Linus Torvalds Returns To Mechanical Keyboard After Making Too Many Typos (theregister.com) 87
Linux creator Linus Torvalds has abandoned his six-month experiment with a quieter low-profile keyboard in favor of his old mechanical one with Cherry MX Blue switches. In a post about Linux 6.15-rc6 on LKML.org, Torvalds explained that his typing accuracy suffered without the tactile feedback.
"It seems I need the audible (or perhaps tactile) feedback to avoid the typing mistakes that I just kept doing," Torvalds wrote. The famously outspoken developer couldn't recall why he initially switched to the quieter keyboard, as he doesn't work in a shared office where the noise would disturb others. After the failed experiment with the unnamed quiet keyboard, Torvalds has now returned to what he describes as a "noisy clackety-clack" input device. He joked that since he can no longer blame his keyboard for typos, "going forward, I will now conveniently blame autocorrect."
"It seems I need the audible (or perhaps tactile) feedback to avoid the typing mistakes that I just kept doing," Torvalds wrote. The famously outspoken developer couldn't recall why he initially switched to the quieter keyboard, as he doesn't work in a shared office where the noise would disturb others. After the failed experiment with the unnamed quiet keyboard, Torvalds has now returned to what he describes as a "noisy clackety-clack" input device. He joked that since he can no longer blame his keyboard for typos, "going forward, I will now conveniently blame autocorrect."
Oh (Score:5, Funny)
At least now I will be able to sleep tonight knowing that Linus is making fewer typos. Whew.
Re: Oh (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Oh (Score:3)
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That's what she says to you.
Sorry, but you just set yourself up too well.
Re: Oh (Score:4, Funny)
No, that's what your mom says to me.
Talk about setting yourself up.
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Sometimes the "best" tool for a job is the one you're used to.
That's what my wife says.
That she's used to you or you're a tool? :-)
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Yes.
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"This is hero worship."
Worse, it was hero worship when Tom's published it. Here's it's just cheap, /. steals its "articles" from "more reputable sources, like Tom's Hardware and the Verge! LOL
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Jesus Christ how far Tom's has fallen, it used to be a good site.
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Didn't it get bought out by one of the "Content" networks?
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Yes, Future. They banned my account for criticizing their plan for a paywall. Like anyone would pay to read the shit they churn out now.
The story warrants dismissive (Score:2)
The story, or lack of it, warranted dismissive. The fact that Linus will be able to brow beat more developers with fewer typos in his rants makes a rather sad story.
The whole concept of his keyboard choice being newsworthy is an indictment of ./. It's par for the course at The Register.
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I pulled out my old Model M after spilling soda on the keyboard I had been using for a couple of years and instantly noticed I could type easier.
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The point is that mechanical keyboards work well to reduce typos.
Torvalds is wrong FWIW, it has nothing to do with it click noises. People with Cherry Browns have also noticed fewer typos. And I've had keyboards that try to emulate mechanical keyboards in feel and sound but were membrane underneath but I had just as many typos.
The issue is that membrane keyboards are just not very good. I can't comment on why, I suspect it's because membrane keyboards require you do a full keypress that ensures the key hits
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membrane keyboards
Membrane keyboards are those completely flat controls they put in microwave ovens. They haven't been a thing on computers since the early 1980s.
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This might help you learn some of the jargon involved when describing keyboard technologies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
But essentially, yes, the keyboard that came with your cheap ass Dell or your overpriced Mac (my God they have horrible keyboards) is, indeed, more related to the keypad on your microwave oven (or your ZX81) than it's related to mechanical keyboard technology - either discrete keyswitches (which is what Torvalds is referring to) or buckling spring keyboards like the IBM Model M.
A typ
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That moronic article equates chiclet and scissor-switch. Disregard it.
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The article does nothing of the sort? It has a see-also in the scissor switch section but that's because a lot of modern scissor switch keyboards are frequently (and justifiably IMO) described as chiclet, which you'd see explained if you actually followed the link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard) and looked under the "Legacy" section.
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Hahah, no, that's not true at all. Underneath the keycap is a membrane switch on most keyboards.
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It HAS a membrane, doesn't mean it IS a membrane keyboard (a la Atari 400 or ZX81).
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Yes, it's a membrane keyboard, because its primary mechanism of operation is a membrane.
Look, I know you don't like the fact that your cheap-ass Dell keyboard belongs to the same family of keyboards as the ZX81's, but it nonetheless does, which is why Dell and Sinclair chose that technology in the first place. It's cheap. It gets the customer a keyboard for the lowest possible price. With the added rubber dome and keycaps it's acceptable quality for many consumers, especially given most people can't type ve
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* accepted terminology *sighs* too early in the morning and haven't had coffee today....
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The Model M is a membrane keyboard. It also has the famous bucking springs, but the key press detection is via a membrane.
People also claim that linear switches improve their typing accuracy, so it's not just the tactile response once the key has been registered.
My guess would be that it is down to the longer travel making key presses more deliberate and a little slower. Maybe less "bounce back" too, as I found when I tried a low profile keyboard that I'd bottom out and that feeling, that harder stop than y
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Yeah you're right (IIRC the main difference in terms of technology between M vs F was swapping out the highly regarded capacitive system of the latter for a membrane.)
Given the M is still highly regarded either the clickiness of buckling spring is doing overtime on a psychological level, or it's not the membrane and associated (usual) low roll over (technically a membrane keyboard could have great rollover, say if each key had its own line to the chips decoding it rather than using the grid they usually use
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That's the other thing people don't realize about the Model M - it's only 2 key roll-over. Of course the special keys are separate, but everything else is 2 key.
I sometimes wonder if the membrane helps the feel of the Model M. The spring buckles and then it hits the membrane to give a softer bottoming out.
I like Cherry MX Brown (Score:4, Insightful)
Brown is a nice quiet alternative, but I do find I am more accurate with the clicky Blue key switches.
My current mechanical keyboard is some DIY thing I put together with the cheapest, lightest, quietest switches I could find. I make a LOT of mistakes on it. The worse decision was to use too light of a switch for the spacebar.
(most of my problem is the lack of proof reading and has nothing to do with the keyboard)
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I'm also a fan of Cherry Brown. But Blues are also great!
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Re: I like Cherry MX Brown (Score:2)
I tried some kailh switches, they were junk. sloppy, yet sticky. (Eew.) I am now using outemu silent peach v1 switches. Nice and quiet (this is a factor both at home and at work) and also very very smooth. I put a clicky, firmer switch in for caps lock as this makes it both harder to press, and more obvious when I do. If I had it to do again I would get silent peach v3.
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They are much smoother out of box while Kailh just makes better keyswitches than MX at this point.
There's also the Kailh Box Thick Clicky Navy - these are quite a bit harder to press but the sounds and feedback are huge. They are tiring and feel like something is stuck in the switch to me, but they have their favorites.
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Realistically plain Cherry switches are rarely the best, regardless of if your preference is clicky, tactile, or linear.
As a clicky fan, the Novelkeys Box Jade switches are near perfection for me. The Zeal Clickiez are pretty good too (they're Cherry form factor compatible but the internal mechanism is more like a traditional Alps switch).
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Switches make a lot of the feel, but the firmware has to back them up. My current Das Keyboard Prime 13 has Cherry Brown MX and I consider it a steaming pile.
I note in my review of the product: "I've typed on $15 USB keyboards that don't insert extra spaces. Why should one of this price do so?".
Since the manufacturer couldn't or wouldn't make it work to my satisfaction, I had to engineer my own Arduino-based solution to passing media keys through the KVM switch, getting their NKRO feature to work, and being
Model M! (Score:2)
Model M, or go home!
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Whenever I stopped typing for a moment it was clear how badly I had chosen my latest keyboard. It seems that all this time my previous keyboards have all been enabling my poor technique.
I naturally hold my wrists slightly above and type downwards like playing a piano, but realised I have a habit of resting my hands on the keys when not actively typing.
On these silent mushmellow switches I can't even rest my fingertips with my palms resting on the support pad. Just the weight of these oafish sausage finger
Cherry Blue? Meh. (Score:2)
It's the keyboard's fault (Score:2)
That's what I tell people when I send somebody a message with errors in it.
Or if that doesn't work, it's autocorrect's fault.
I'll find something to blame!
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Remind me not to sit next to Linus (Score:4, Insightful)
Those mechanical keyboards are made by the devil for folks who sit by themselves not in a shared space.
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She has of course been complaining about my clicky keyboards since 2000.
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I switched back to a cheap quiet keyboard because I don't want other people in my office to hear me typing. But more importantly, I don't want them to know when I'm not typing.
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I only gave up my IBM Modem M-13 in the cubicle farm because the new PC they lifecycled me to didn't support PS/2 anymore and the PS/2 to USB adapter missed scancodes too much to be worth the trouble.
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I only gave up my IBM Modem M-13 in the cubicle farm because the new PC they lifecycled me to didn't support PS/2 anymore and the PS/2 to USB adapter missed scancodes too much to be worth the trouble.
You can get a modern implementation of the IBM model M keyboard with a USB interface from Unicomp. https://www.pckeyboard.com/pag... [pckeyboard.com]
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My college friend said I type like a machine gun too on his Model M keyboard connected to his Intel 386 CPU PC!
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Were you my former coworker from over a decade ago when I was using those generic Dell clicky PC104 keyboards? :P
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You consider that technical?
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Not yet, he's not running systemd-fartd.
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Re: K but (Score:2)
For now, pele sleeps.
Great switches (Score:2)
Cherry MX-brown switches are still probably my favorite, but I've tried and also like the Kailth Box White switches. I feel the expectation of tactile feedback is pretty innate, likely the product of how we've evolved our response to the world around us.
Also, I like the noise.
and imagine (Score:3, Insightful)
lolwut (Score:1)
Excuse me, my IBM Model M came straight from IBM in the 1990s. It does not wear out because it is God's Keyboard. Anyhow they are continually on eBay in new condition for about $250, if you're paying $1000 I don't know what to tell you. Might as well get one of the Unicomp ones.
Also... the terminals do not use a Model M keyboard. I'm talking about the keyboard that came with the IBM PC/AT or PS/2.
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Assholes like you are the reason why 3270 and 5250 terminals are scarce. God forbid someone finds a terminal and then has to pay $1k because vultures snap these up.
3270 and 5250 terminals are scare because they were largely surplused and recycled after that method of connecting to minis and mainframes was supplanted by emulation software on PCs.
While some late-production terminal keyboards used the same sorts of keymounts, springs, and keys that the keyboards made for PCs use, the vast, vast majority of this technology was used in keyboards for the IBM PC series. Sure, there are enthusiasts that are converting old 'battleship' keyboards from the terminals to work on
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Why? Unicomp still makes Model M keyboards, what on Earth makes you think Model M lovers would buy a terminal for a keyboard that can't even be plugged into their PC when they can one new?
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I got a reproduction Model F (F77 Model F Keyboard from modelfkeyboards.com) and it's great. I think it is a tiny bit better than my original Model M or the Unicomp, but it was rather expensive and it is dangerously heavy.
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I'm hoping at some point they'll come up with a keyboard using the classic ~90 key layout (example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... [wikimedia.org]) but oddly they seem to be avoiding that, even producing 10X key Model F despite that IBM never producing a keyboard like that.
(The advantage is you have all the keys - the "extras" the Model M added were always available on the F but were toggled on and off via Num Lk - but the keyboard is shorter and more centered, allowing the mouse to be used more closely.)
tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-BANG! (Score:3)
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I am forgotten [modelfkeyboards.com].
The one good product from Microsoft: (Score:2)
Microsoft Natural Elite keyboard.
I don't understand why more people don't use ergonomic keyboards.
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I used a few of those over the decades. They get mushy feeling too quickly, and they started playing with undersized arrow keys which was annoying.
Microsoft's mice and joysticks have generally been decent, but I wouldn't call their keyboards wonderful.
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don't understand why more people don't use ergonomic keyboards.
Because they are anything but ergonomical. They require hands to be placed in very unintuitive positions for typing, and suck really bad. Everytime I use one, my typing slows to a crawl and my error rate skyrockets. Hands should be straight up and down when typing, not at bizarre angles as required by those split keyboards.
I know it's a personal preference, but learning to type on those monstrosities is not at all worth it.
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They require hands to be placed in very unintuitive positions for typing,
As opposed to the permanent wrist bend that traditional keyboards require.
Yes, they take some time to get used to, but they work well once you have adjusted.
Re: The one good product from Microsoft: (Score:3)
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> Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite.
> I don't understand why more people don't use ergonomic keyboards.
Is that the one [wikipedia.org] with the shitty diamond cursor keys? Yeah, that one was utter garbage.
Most ergonomic keyboards [rtings.com] SUCK for multiple reasons:
* Touch quality [amazon.com] is EXTREMELY subjective.
* The separation of left and right isn't far enough apart.
* They don't have enough of an "up" slope. This should be near vertical.
* Because the middle row T, Y, G, H, B, N, keys aren't doubled up.
* They suck for gaming -- I d
I switched to a slightly quieter keyboard (Score:2)
I did have a very loud buckling-spring keyboard, but my home office shares a wall with my daughter's bedroom and the noise was disturbing her. I switched to a comparatively cheap Logitech G213 [logitechg.com] and find it quite good. Decent key travel and enough tactile feedback for me without being terribly noisy.
I scoffed at the LEDs at first, but I found a use for them: When I lock the screen, the keys turn red. When I unlock it, they turn green. If I show up at the computer and the keys are green (but the video di
Subjectively true (Score:2)
M
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I've found some decent rubberdomes. I used Maxiswitch Gateway 2000 "Anykey" keyboards for awhile, and I also variously used Sun keyboards.
I'd even go so far as to say that the good rubberdomes are far better than crappy mechanical keyboards.
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The best keyboard... (Score:5, Insightful)
The best keyboard I ever had the pleasure to use was the IBM DisplayWriter beamspring keyboard. Why?
- Long travel, the longest I have known.
- That prevents your from bottoming out on the key, reduces fatigue.
- Strong tactile feedback. You knew you struck that key.
- Exceptional overtravel. Having pressed the key, it enforced your completing the motion sufficiently to know you've finished the stroke.
- Scalloped keytop ranks. Rarely seen in typewriters where it would have been most useful, lets you reach upper and lower ranks with less effort, less fatigue, fewer errors.
All this to create an electronic keyboard that emulated the Selectric keyboard, with its excellent ergonomics, unmatched to this day save for a very few exceptions, the Model M a standout. But the DisplayWriter was the best. And repairable. Just huge, key modules were almost 2" tall. Oh, and capacitive contacts, no switches. I replaced possibly 3 key modules over 8 years of servicing DisplayWriter and similar IBM word processing systems. Just the best feeling keyboard ever, for me.
And impractical today. Who wants a 2-3" thick keyboard?
Re: The best keyboard... (Score:2)
Sometimes it's the spacing between the keys (Score:3)
As a programmer for over 25 years, I've been blind typing and a lot of it.
Recently, I switched to a chicklet keyboard design because of the lower noise profile and (for me) the ease to distinguish keys keys due to the extra spacing between each key.
Unfortunately, this keyboard had a slightly different layout, no extra spacing between the F4/F5 keys and F8/F9 keys. That alone was enough to throw my orientation and greatly increase the number of typos.
I tried adjusting for months and eventually gave up and found a different chicklet keyboard with the proper F-key spacing and my typos dropped to normal levels and my typing speed slightly accelerated.
I wasn't aware that I had this dependency until after I bought a keyboard without the F-key spacing, sometimes you learn by trying different things.
My recommendation (Score:2)
Logitech G815. Satisfyingly clicky, not obnoxiously loud, low-profile keys, and programmable hot keys. Very sturdy construction as well. And of course the RGB so your boss knows you're a gamer not to be messed with.
didn't like the clickity-clack (Score:1)
What was that trial keyboard? (Score:2)
I'm curious what the "quieter low-profile" keyboard was. I used a Logitech K740 for years and liked its quiet, low-profile scissor mechanism and not-software-utility controlled backlighting. But when my last one went bad I found Logitech had discontinued the model years ago. The Cherry Stream seems to be a model people mention as a replacement, but there is no backlit version.
Long live (Score:2)
Long live my Model M and Model F keyboards. And yes, I still use both regularly. Nothing beats the originals.
I love clicky (Score:1)
... But switched to quiet so I can more freely type & get work done during all the funding telecons.