
Inflated Salaries Put Targets on Workers' Backs as Market Cools (msn.com) 99
Workers who secured substantial salary increases during the pandemic hiring frenzy are now confronting a stark reality: they're likely overpaid in today's cooling job market. According to new Korn Ferry data, two-thirds of U.S. workers believe they're compensated at or above their market value.
The tech sector has experienced significant wage deflation, with expanding pay transparency laws making market corrections impossible to ignore. Only 60% of recent job switchers received raises in Q1 2025, down from 73% just one quarter earlier.
The tech sector has experienced significant wage deflation, with expanding pay transparency laws making market corrections impossible to ignore. Only 60% of recent job switchers received raises in Q1 2025, down from 73% just one quarter earlier.
The bosses need more money (Score:5, Informative)
Those greedy workers are stealing our profits! /s
Re:The bosses need more money (Score:4, Insightful)
Those greedy workers are stealing our profits! /s
Can’t wait for the MBAs on the production line to figure out where the problem is. This should be rich.
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ai, robot, i can't wait to see the effects of AI on MBAs
MBA is a college degree, not a job tile (Score:4, Interesting)
The reality is that it is a broadly applicable degree. That said, the silver spoon nepotism poster children frequently pursue an MBA and really do have no other redeeming qualities. The problem isn't the MBA, it is that they have no meaningful background to understand the companies and people that they destroy in the pursuit of the fleeting god of "perpetual growth" and "increasing revenues."
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Yeah, it's kind of like getting a degree in "Humanities." Sure, you learn things, but what's it really good for?
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Yeah, it's kind of like getting a degree in "Humanities." Sure, you learn things, but what's it really good for?
Humanities degrees can often lead to various communications and research based careers like journalism, archaeology or historian. Why do you need to sully its name with something as useless as an MBA?
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Humanities degrees can often lead to various communications and research based careers like journalism, archaeology or historian
I think you're at least partly joking. But a Humanity degree only leads to such careers in the same way that having any random degree, leads to these careers. Nobody hires an archaeologist because they have a "Humanities" degree.
And there are actual degrees in journalism, archaeology, and history.
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A lot of people seem o think the MBA is a job title. Some position in the company where the best occupant is someone who is equally clueless and heartless. The reality is that it is a broadly applicable degree. That said, the silver spoon nepotism poster children frequently pursue an MBA and really do have no other redeeming qualities. The problem isn't the MBA, it is that they have no meaningful background to understand the companies and people that they destroy in the pursuit of the fleeting god of "perpetual growth" and "increasing revenues."
If the MBA profession tends to attract ALL the wrong individuals, then perhaps the job is about as valued as a college offering a Masters in Narcissism. Seriously, one would think the industry could shit out at least one or two retired MBA billionaires with fantastic success stories. Nope. Not really.
Pretending this profession will improve is like waiting for the actual psychic to come along in an entire industry full of bullshit artists.
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Graduates From Top MBA Programs Are Struggling To Land Jobs [slashdot.org]
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The MBAs are many of the ones who can't find jobs! Graduates From Top MBA Programs Are Struggling To Land Jobs [slashdot.org]
Yeah, the bloom is definitely off the MBA rose. The whole concept was kinda bogus, that a rando could go to get a masters, that would allow them to become a master of the universe in business matters.
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In retrospect, everyone can see that it was a mistake.
At this point, MBAs' are not being given, and don't expect, the keys (to keep the metaphor consistent).
As I expect you can surmise, I do indeed have an MBA, so do several other teachers in the Title 1 (education
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The reality is that most of the jobs the early boomers landed in were closed up tight before Gen X came knocking at the door
The really cool part is the Boomers are now shuffling off to the well deserved fires of hell that they so dearly deserve, for being the cause of every problem open earth. And all of the other generations will combine to make the world perfect. because they apparently couldn't stand up to them cause of all problems.
Seriously, the victim card y'all keep playing is pretty weak by now. Consider that perpetual victimhood doesn't fix the world, it just makes up excuses for failure.
The main advantage of the pe
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The problem is that there are simply too many MBA graduates because too many people assumed that businesses that do R&D would give them a job. That was true for a w
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MBAs have their place in the kind of business that does no R&D and where it's all about "business efficiency" and "business process improvement": airlines, steel mills, railways, refineries, etc. But MBAs don't have a place in the kind of business that does R&D, since highly-paid engineers shouldn't have to "dumb it down" for MBAs.
I don't disagree with that. MBA's have an MBA mindset that fails badly when dealing with anything not cut and dried. Their thought process is more akin to accountants than researching and putting out a new product. Boeing is a good example of what happens when MBA thinking takes over. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse... [linkedin.com] Sorry for the Linkedin link. https://www.livarava.com/techn... [livarava.com] https://www.allsides.com/news/... [allsides.com]
They had so many MBA missteps that put profit over keeping the damn airplanes in the sky
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[youtube.com]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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Those greedy workers are stealing our profits! /s
Kind of cutting off their nose to spite their face though. Most companies I'm interacting with are trimming workforce, but also projects and goals, or otherwise deliberately cutting quality. With less to buy, and with less satisfaction of things bought, people pressed for money are going to buy less.
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Seriously, most CEO's could cut their compensation by a few percent and double most of the companies salary.
Don't think it would be any different (Score:2)
if they hadn't had a raise during the pandemic. Nobody is cheap enough to compete with AI. At least they got to enjoy extra money for the little time they could command it.
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the elections over you can stop blaming Biden for your genital warts.
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Snide remarks aside, he isn't wrong. The effects of inflation are permanent, especially given how allergic the Fed is to deflation.
Re: Don't think it would be any different (Score:2)
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Prices haven't dropped to 2019 levels on much of anything. Except labor apparently.
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Why would they? The increases on goods prices weren't caused by the same thing that caused the increase on labor prices.
See, telling everyone to stay home and not work reduced the labor supply and caused the price increase on labor. What caused the price of goods to increase was printing enough money to nearly double our national debt in four years, thus sending inflation skyrocketing.
If you want something to stop happening, it's generally a good idea to stop causing it to happen.
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1. Destroy economy by shutting it down.
2. Devalue the dollar and cause 30% inflation.
3. ???
4. POLITICAL PROFIT!
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Yup. How we got where we are is blindingly obvious to anyone. Now cue the folks who're going to double down on it all cause they can't bring themselves face the fact that they're the ones who caused it.
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Nobody's telling people to stay at home anymore. Covid lock downs are long since over.
Also you need to compete the thought. Yes money supply went up, but where is all that extra money going?
Re: Duh (Score:2)
Phrasing. Are we not doing phrasing anymore? (Score:5, Insightful)
"Inflated Salaries."
"Market Value."
This wording is directly meant to make the common worker feel they are being overpaid. In a historical sense, wages haven't kept up with inflation in decades, but this brief upward tick we experienced during the pandemic hiring frenzy *MUST* be rectified because... uh, um, well, let's see. The owners aren't rich enough yet? The C-Suite needs another round of bonuses? Companies posting record profits need still more in the corporate coffers, which will eventually translate into more C-Suite bonuses?
It's gonna be a hard sell to convince most of us that right now we need to accept wages and raises being suppressed, at precisely the same time prices on nearly everything around us are beginning to climb, and economic pointers make it seem those prices are going to continue to climb quite a bit over the course of the next three plus years, if not longer. At what point do the owner class become satisfied they own enough? Obviously, it hasn't happened yet. Is it the point where the average person/family can't afford to eat or keep a roof over their heads? Or will that just be another round of public enragement. "We need to get these shiftless layabouts off the street!"
I saw a story the other day on the morning news in between the Hollywood self-celebration stories about there being a new and troubling trend. People with full time employment that are homeless, or at best, living out of their vehicle. Because the idea of rent for a cheap loft is so far out of reach for them, even with a full time or in some cases multiple part time jobs that are more than equivalent of full time employment, that it seems a fantasy to them to be able to afford it and food for themselves to stay alive. Is this the country we're all working to build? Is this really what our forefathers fought for? Are we really just chattel, meant to serve the elite and die with nothing but dreams and bills?
A society should do more to help the common man, and worry far less about corporate profits and owner class bank accounts. We need reform, and not reform intended to hand still more to the oligarchs. This shit is absolutely backwards, and is the reason that we're starting to let ourselves become the exact type of backwoods hick nation we so desperately want to believe we aren't.
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Agree here; wages not keeping up with inflation is a serious problem. It might be a short term improvement in profitability but it is unsustainable long term.
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It's usually best to avoid companies that treat you like an interchangeable and disposable commodity, to be discarded as soon as the economy gets the sniffles.
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Which is nearly all of them.
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It's usually best to avoid companies that treat you like an interchangeable and disposable commodity, to be discarded as soon as the economy gets the sniffles.
Just as well suggest not looking for a job then. You're always replaceable. And every employer will either grow large enough to start seeing you as a cog, or die before it reaches that size.
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That is the only thing those wanna-be lords understand and fear.
Re:Phrasing. Are we not doing phrasing anymore? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now you're on to something.
America is, and has always been, about individual exceptionalism being used as a proof of America's excellence. Who cares how poorly America fares on any number of social-based metrics - as long as we have the richest billionaires, and can convince even the poorest of fools to aspire to be rich some day, America will always be exactly the way it is right now. Socialism is only valuable to those who don't care about the fantasy of getting rich at someone else's expense.
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Individuals absolutely should be excelling. That is not what we have here. We have wealthy sons and daughters being set up to own more and more of everything. There is no meritocracy at all.
Giving up the idea of individual exceptionalism is pure insanity. That gives up the idea of a meritocracy no less than our current system does.
Honestly, it sounds like you are proposing a planned society, like old-school Communism or Socialism. That never works out properly. Capitalism and Individual Exceptionalism are
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That is entirely inaccurate. [statista.com]
What is true is that wages have not kept up with productivity increases. [statista.com]
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That is entirely inaccurate. [statista.com] What is true is that wages have not kept up with productivity increases. [statista.com]
How is this sentiment so prevalent? It's been knows since the late seventies that wages do not keep pace with inflation. First find on Google. [epi.org]
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According to Statista, median wages have had periods of stagnation, but have definitely gone up compared to inflation since 1979, as well as in the last 10 years. So it is not true that "median wages have not kept with with inflation in decades".
Your link does not contradict that. It shows statistics that wage inequality has risen, that since 1980 "middle wage earners" (50th percentile) have seen wages go up a little, "low wage earners" (10th percentile) have seen wage
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He gave you the data. And your link agrees. All of the graphs show worker pay going up. Your article makes the point that
precisely as the GP stated.
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In a historical sense, wages haven't kept up with inflation in decades
[citation needed]
This is certainly true for "minimum wage" jobs (because the minimum wage has not increased in line with inflation) but that's about all it's true for. Wages have been stagnant relative to inflation but they have not decreased. The metric you're likely thinking of is wages vs productivity.
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In a historical sense, wages haven't kept up with inflation in decades
[citation needed]
This is certainly true for "minimum wage" jobs (because the minimum wage has not increased in line with inflation) but that's about all it's true for. Wages have been stagnant relative to inflation but they have not decreased. The metric you're likely thinking of is wages vs productivity.
It's true for more than just minimum wage jobs. In fact, it's true for most job sectors. Citation? Here's just one that comes up with a quick google. [epi.org] It even has charts for those who prefer to skip those wordy things.
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It's true for more than just minimum wage jobs. In fact, it's true for most job sectors. Citation? Here's just one that comes up with a quick google. [epi.org] It even has charts for those who prefer to skip those wordy things.
Did you not even bother to read the title of your cited article? "Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts" doesn't seem like a good choice to refute my claim, and indeed, figure 4 does not refute it but in fact supports it. 10th percentile wages (i.e. "minimum wage jobs") are down 5% in real terms since 1980, while 50th percentile wages are up 6%.
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A society should do more to help the common man, and worry far less about corporate profits and owner class bank accounts. We need reform, and not reform intended to hand still more to the oligarchs. This shit is absolutely backwards, and is the reason that we're starting to let ourselves become the exact type of backwoods hick nation we so desperately want to believe we aren't.
The backwoods hicks are the ones that are in charge.
Cabinet, senate leaders, house leaders, hell the senate 53 R senators represent a population of 155,129,628, while the 47 senators comprised of 45 D and 2 I's who caucus with them represent 179,106,295 people. The difference is 23,976,667 or about 24M.
The cabinet is full of drunks, drug addicts and dog killers.
need to go union! (Score:2)
need to go union!
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When, not "if", the revolution comes, the standard is to viciously kill all of those who were responsible. Occasionally, it is more civilized, but it always has ended in death...
I have a MUCH better idea that does not directly cause death:
Make them live in a large town/small city on a new identity and without access to any of their friends/relatives/assets. They would wear ankle monitors to ensure they stay in that town and would be monitored by people to ensure they have no access to anything a common citi
Which is why whenever I know (Score:2)
That said, as long as they're giving, I'm grabbing
"at or above market rate" != "overpaid" (Score:5, Insightful)
if 60% of surveyed folks say they are paid at market rate, and 6% above market, that's very different than 6% at, and 60% above. or even 33/33.
Talk about intentionally sloppy statistics. But that makes sense given that its source is a consultancy for _employers_ who will gladly slash salaries at any opportunity.
Re:"at or above market rate" != "overpaid" (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, market rate varies from field to field. I'm vastly overpaid for the same role in different industries. But my industry pays more due to stiff competition between the main players, strong gardening contracts that require them to pay me for years or let me go to those competitors, and the high performance expectations of the role.
I could make 1/3 of what I make now working for a local consulting group in town doing about 2/3's the work with much less stress. They would laugh at hiring me at my current salary, as would any other local industry.
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I know people who make a lot more as contractors, but they don't get benefits, it's all cash. They also don't have any real job security.
Plus let's not forget about the most overpaid employees of all: C levels especially the (often) token personality of the CEO. Unless they founded the company, they probably have zero actual vision.
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if 60% of surveyed folks say they are paid at market rate, and 6% above market, that's very different than 6% at, and 60% above. or even 33/33.
Talk about intentionally sloppy statistics. But that makes sense given that its source is a consultancy for _employers_ who will gladly slash salaries at any opportunity.
It's a good thing they can't fire you and then re-hire at a lower rate in the United States then.
LinkedIn, AI, etc. (Score:2)
All these developments in tech hiring serve to drive down the price of labor for skilled workers. LinkedIn makes it easy to get 100s if not 1000s of applications for any job. It makes talent easily searchable. It reduces friction in the market. It makes prices for labor go down.
The expressed purpose of AI language models is to reduce the number of skilled head count.
And frankly, all the "learn to code" initiatives also are for this purpose. Of course education is great, but let's not pretend the reason
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You get applicants from LinkedIn alright... but qualified in reality, or even on the surface is much smaller number, and getting down to the 1-10% of appropriate candidates becomes a lot of work.
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I've been on both sides of it. The entire point of the employer facing side of linkedin is to search highly qualified people - it's not that hard to weed out the shit-tier candidates, it's the entire point of the service.
Refusing raises (Score:5, Interesting)
My take-home pay was getting me to the top of the dreaded 'highest paid' spreadsheet, so I have been demanding a 0% raise for the past 3 years.
For our (very large) company's last round of layoffs, our team lost many of our best and most knowledgeable people. The only possible reason is that they made too much, as they otherwise were the most valuable contributors to the product.
Word to the wise: never be at the top of that spreadsheet. 8th or 9th is about where you want to max out.
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I have been telling a friend of my sons who works for the government that he should not take a promotion. He is in the middle of the pay scale for his current grade, so plenty of room for raises. But taking the promotion makes him probationary and will likely lead to him losing his job. It is better to have a job than put it at risk.
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This is true.
I once promoted a shitty employee, specifically so he would be in a probationary period so that I could then fire him.
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This is true. Out company has targeted the top earners for lay offers for the last few years. It's literally as simple as whack the highest earner by job title.
I've been warned that I am now on the radar, because I make more than most managers in my department.
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This is true. Out company has targeted the top earners for lay offers for the last few years. It's literally as simple as whack the highest earner by job title.
I've been warned that I am now on the radar, because I make more than most managers in my department.
Do they just decide this baed on pay? Sometimes a top earner is top earning because they are a top performer.
There is a concept on slashdot that performance is negatively proportional to ability, that the highest Paid person is the least competent, and the lowest the person who should be running the place. That might not be quite true.
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Yes. Like I said, it's as simple as whack the highest paid person in every job title. That's how the managers explained the process.
Another practice they have to base performance reviews based on budget. For example, managers are given only so many "dollars" to "spend" on merit increases. Your increase is based on your performance review. So what they do is figure out how much they want to give you, and then write the review based on that. It's totally fucked up.
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Yes. Like I said, it's as simple as whack the highest paid person in every job title.
Is it that simple? I was earning 3 times as much as the next closest paid person in my group. If that idea holds merit, they could have fired me, and all would be well, lotsa money saved, as now the department is a lot cheaper to run.
If your managers say that all you do is get rid of the highest paid person, they are deserving of failure.
That's the assumption that the lowest or lower paid people are the exact equivalent of the highest paid people. And boy howdy that isn't even wrong.
It completely av
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Yes. Like I said, it's as simple as whack the highest paid person in every job title.
Is it that simple? I was earning 3 times as much as the next closest paid person in my group.....
yes, it's that simple, where I work, which is what I was describing. Your experience is completely irrelevant, unless you happen to work where I do - which seems unlikely.
Sounds like a bad manager to me. There are enough of them too.
Oh, it's the whole company, not just a few managers. It's poorly run. It's why a lot of people quit and go somewhere else, even if they didn't get laid off.
One guy who got laid off recently now works somewhere else for 40% more money. So, yeah, they underpay too.
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Yes. Like I said, it's as simple as whack the highest paid person in every job title.
Is it that simple? I was earning 3 times as much as the next closest paid person in my group.....
yes, it's that simple, where I work, which is what I was describing. Your experience is completely irrelevant, unless you happen to work where I do - which seems unlikely.
Just as your experience is completely and undisputedly irrelevant to me, my friend. Your point is in itself pointless.
My point, that will never be acknowledged by you - is that there is a whole different world when you bring value added.
And I'm not even addressing you - your mentality is the antithesis of value added, so you aren't going to do all that well. Not my problem. Hate on anyone who is above you, a great path to success or maybe not.
No homie, I post in the case that some young guy will
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My point, that will never be acknowledged by you - is that there is a whole different world when you bring value added.
Well, you're wrong. I totally acknowledge that - and furthermore I agree that's how it should be.
your mentality is the antithesis of value added, so you aren't going to do all that well.
It is not MY mentality. It's just how it works where I am. I didn't come up with the stupid methodology, and I don't agree with it.
Hate on anyone who is above you, a great path to success or maybe not.
Youre way off base man. I don't hate on anybody. Where the fuck did that come from?
I think people should make as much as they possibly can.
No homie, I post in the case that some young guy will come to understand that outside of a few unicorns, success is brought about by drive, attitude and hard work. Not guaranteed, of course, but unless you are a unicorn your attitude is one that gets laid off.
again, it is not my attitude, I was simply describing how it works where I am.
I think you're completely confused as to anything I was saying.
I'm
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It is not MY mentality. It's just how it works where I am. I didn't come up with the stupid methodology, and I don't agree with it.
I take it there is no possibility of leaving? You chained to your desk? I(f your place of work is as you say it is, it will not be there much longer, and you'll be out of a job. It is much easier to get a new job when you already have one. Just sayin'
Perhaps you are not as I described. However, as a protip , you use language and attitude and present as a person who is as I describe, so you might consider using a different approach.
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It is not MY mentality. It's just how it works where I am. I didn't come up with the stupid methodology, and I don't agree with it.
I take it there is no possibility of leaving? You chained to your desk? I(f your place of work is as you say it is, it will not be there much longer, and you'll be out of a job. It is much easier to get a new job when you already have one. Just sayin'
Sure. But me finding a new job does not change in the slightest how my current company works, which is all I was describing.
Perhaps you are not as I described. However, as a protip , you use language and attitude and present as a person who is as I describe, so you might consider using a different approach.
oh well.
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The 100-person company I worked for went through 3 rounds of layoffs in 2008-2009. The first round laid off underperformers (though there were a couple of head scratchers mong them). By the last round of layoffs (which included me) one of my bosses complained to me that the only ones left were inexperienced low-paid kids and partners & management, but no one who actually could do the job
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Word to the wise: never be at the top of that spreadsheet. 8th or 9th is about where you want to max out.
Interesting. Probably not true in all cases. I was paid so high above the max for my pay grade that my raise every year had to be personally approved by the University President. Didn't harm my employment one iota.
Granted, I'm just not too bad at what I do. There were a few of us in my unit who could find new employment with a phone call.
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My take-home pay was getting me to the top of the dreaded 'highest paid' spreadsheet
[snip]
Word to the wise: never be at the top of that spreadsheet. 8th or 9th is about where you want to max out.
How do you know this? Do you work in HR? Most of us don't have access to this information is spreadsheet or any other form. Most companies discourage employees from disclosing their wages to co-workers (a whole other discussion) so even informal sources are scant.
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I asked my manager specifically. He's like "yeah, you're definitely up there."
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It's amazing how much we will suck down rather than question absolutely anything about how we were raised.
4 to 14 is a hell of a drug. If you don't know Google it.
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That approach makes sense if you are married to your current employer. But it could be that your employer is just cheap. Very often, when you reach the point of being too expensive for your employer, it requires changing companies, to find one with a better pay scale. Many, many of us in software development, have had to change companies multiple times in our careers, for this very reason.
This has always been the case (Score:1)
Higher than average salary === Less job security.
And yes, MANY of us in the tech field are overpaid. That's just part of the risk.
Corollary: If you're underpaid in tech, you either love the job/culture/cult you're in or you're an incel that can't stand change.
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Ok, I misused the word incel. I meant "insular, anti-social, introverted, possibly neuro-divergent, IT employee".
Do you feel better, Anonymous Coward? *Sigh*... What a sad loser. I may be done with Slashdot's crowd at this point.
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Ok, I misused the word incel. I meant "insular, anti-social, introverted, possibly neuro-divergent, IT employee".
Do you feel better, Anonymous Coward? *Sigh*... What a sad loser. I may be done with Slashdot's crowd at this point.
Hell, you probably gave the coward an erection!
Inflated salaries my ass (Score:3)
Oh, wait. (Score:2)
Start lowering salaries, sure. Just don't forget to lower your product prices at the same time so that we can afford what you're selling.
Oh, wait...
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Oh, no, but that would mean upper management gets less ROI...
Lies (Score:1)
I'm seeing tech rebound as of the last couple weeks, and the rates that I'm hearing are above and beyond the market rates - while still being fully remote - so this is just propaganda being perpetuated to try to get most workers into accepting a worse deal because the market is actually heating up and they want to mitigate the risk of the extra costs by actually paying people what they are worth, the market is heating up and this is just here to manipulate you so Hold out and get the best deals you can.
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>> I'm seeing tech rebound
Some evidence would be a lot more convincing than an anecdote.
today's cooling job market (Score:2)
The USA is winning bigly!
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The tech sector has been "cooling" since last year...
Check the author (Score:3)
Here he is trying to claim negotiated contracts are inflated because (some) workers held the end of the stick with a handle for a bit.
And you find him over here explaining how $300k/year is hard to live on.
And hilariously, here he is explaining that, even though whiny white men got White House Don to try to fire all the black people, that isn't going to get them a raise.
Dude is a PR flack for every HR director in the country.
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Your cites are mysteriously missing.
Re:Check the author (Score:4, Informative)
Digging out of my history, let's see what slashcode does with it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone... [msn.com]
https://kanebridgenews.com/mee... [kanebridgenews.com]
boot licking (Score:2)
Fuck your headline.
Here's how to know (Score:2)
1) Find a country where you can live the lifestyle you expect to live, funded by the job you do.
2) Compare the complete setup - this means taxes, healthcare options, real estate pricing, etc., and not just the salary. All of it.
While you can make a lot of money in the US, typically you also spend a bigger percentage of it chasing the lifestyle you want. This is why young educated people used to go to the US - they were healthy and unfettered and not thinking about the whole package, not worried about job