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Transportation Japan

Japan's Honda To Scale Back On EVs, Focus On Hybrids (reuters.com) 226

Posted by BeauHD from the change-of-plans dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Honda said on Tuesday that it was scaling back its investment in electric vehicles given slowing demand and would be focusing on hybrids, now far more in favor, with a slew of revamped models. Japan's second-biggest automaker after Toyota also dropped a target for EV sales to account for 30% of its sales by the 2030 financial year. "It's really hard to read the market, but at the moment we see EVs accounting for about a fifth by then," CEO Toshihiro Mibe told a press conference.

Honda has slashed its planned investment in electrification and software by that year by 30% to 7 trillion yen ($48.4 billion). It's one of a number of global car brands dialing back EV investment due to the shift in demand in favor of hybrids and as governments around the world ease timelines to meet emission rules and EV sales targets. Honda plans to launch 13 next-generation hybrid models globally in the four years from 2027. At the moment it sells more than a dozen hybrid models worldwide, though just three in the U.S. -- the Civic, which comes in hatchback and sedan versions, the Accord and the CR-V. It will also develop a hybrid system for large-size models that it plans to launch in the second half of the decade.

The automaker is aiming to sell 2.2 million to 2.3 million hybrid vehicles by 2030, a huge jump from 868,000 sold last year. That also compares with a total of 3.8 million vehicles sold overall last year. Earlier this month, Honda announced it had put on hold for about two years a $10.7 billion plan to build an EV production base in Ontario, Canada, due to slowing demand for electric cars. Honda said, however, that it still plans to have battery-powered and fuel-cell vehicles make up all of its new car sales by 2040.

Japan's Honda To Scale Back On EVs, Focus On Hybrids More | Reply

Japan's Honda To Scale Back On EVs, Focus On Hybrids

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  • I don't blame them (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2025 @11:33PM (#65392177)
    Without heavy government subsidies you can't make any money selling evs. Neither Tesla nor Ford have been able to pull that off.

    Corruption means Tesla might keep getting the subsidies but the other car companies can't count on that the same way.

    Elon musk threatened to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on primary elections against Republicans who crossed him. That means nobody is going to risk doing anything musk doesn't want them to do. If you drop 10 or 15 million dollars on a Republican House Primary then you can bet your ass whichever candidate gets that money wins. That means musk can and will end the career of any Republican below Senate that crosses him

    Honda of course could try to do the same but I don't think that the American public would let that slide. We have a kind of mystique for billionaires that means they can throw their money around and corrupt our politics and we just kind of let them do it. But if a foreign corporation pulled that trick then unless another billionaire or two back them up with good media coverage they wouldn't be able to pull it off and they'd have to back down.

    All of that means that the subsidies could go at any moment and if Honda drops a ton of money building out electric cars and loses those subsidies there are suddenly going to go pop.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      Without heavy government subsidies you can't make any money selling evs. Neither Tesla nor Ford have been able to pull that off.

      BS. Tesla is profitable without subsidies (although barely), and they have plenty of capital expenses. Kia and Hyundai are globally profitable.

      Never mind the Chinese market, it has far outpaced the US market at this point and the government incentives are not essential.

      • Without heavy government subsidies you can't make any money selling evs. Neither Tesla nor Ford have been able to pull that off.

        BS. Tesla is profitable without subsidies (although barely), and they have plenty of capital expenses. Kia and Hyundai are globally profitable.

        True, and that points out some inherent weaknesses in their car business. Carbon credits help drive profits, and declining car sales are thus a double whammy. Absent tax incentives electric vehicles look less of a deal; given the general perception of range issues. Their storage and services businesses appear stronger, perhaps they'd be better off ditching the car business and focusing on those. Not as glamorous but the may be better long term bets. Tesla also apparently had unrealized Bitcoin gains th

      • BS. Tesla is profitable without subsidies (although barely), and they have plenty of capital expenses. Kia and Hyundai are globally profitable.

        This is a bit insincere however because Tesla received a lot of government subsidies to get to the point where they are today: in addition to the EV credits, they also received a $465M DoE subsidized loan. Yes, they're profitable without subsidies today, but it's in large part thanks to government support in their formative years. Now, they want to kill all that so other EV startups can't follow in their footsteps.

      • BS. Tesla is profitable without subsidies (although barely)

        When? That's a key word, especially when you qualify the sentence with the word "barely". Without subsidies Tesla would have posted a $189 million loss in Q1 this year. They were not at all profitable that quarter and their expenses did not have significant capital investments on the report.

        That said that's a Tesla problem. EVs generally are profitable. Though it helps that the CEOs of other car companies aren't Sig-heiling, aren't attending far-right German conferences, and aren't tearing up the American g

    • https://nypost.com/2025/04/25/... [nypost.com] BYD made $1.3 Billion profit in the first quarter of this year alone... But do tell us more how EV manufacturers can't make profits.

    • Re:I don't blame them (Score:5, Interesting)

      by wonkavader ( 605434 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @01:53AM (#65392323)

      It's possible they wouldn't be able to make money on EVs. It strikes me as a classic entrenched, old, calcified business problem. They say they can't make a profitable EV people want because they don't really want the market to change: they don't care what the customer wants, they want to make the same stuff they've been making because the executives are comfortable with that.

      But whether that's true or not, they have slit their own throats. The US will be protectionist, at least for a while. Japan will be protectionist. But those are small markets compared to the rest of the world put together, and will seem incredibly small as wealth expands in all those areas of the world where China can sell cheap EVs which cost so much less per mile. Wealth will increase for the society, and the number of vehicles bought will increase in a snowball effect. The only place using gas cars will be the US and Japan, and both nations consumers are going to get really pissed that they're forced to spend way more on EVs which are crap compared to other countries' EVs, and forced to spend so much per mile because they're only really being sold gas cars, when the rest of the world drives for practically free in EVs.

      Small EVs get more than 5 miles per kwh now. That's getting down to a penny per mile. And as renewables take over electrical production, the cost of a kwh is going to drop drastically after the initial capital expenditures -- Solar, once bought, just makes essentially free electricity, and that's happening everywhere.

      Companies not working to make EVs cheaper and better will find they cannot sell gas cars, and yet will own a bunch of factories aimed at making gas cars which nobody wants to buy from them. They will have nothing of value. They'll go bust, and be laughed at for their shortsightedness, like we laugh about how Detroit could have bought Toyota out of their petty-cash budget, but just ignored them and continued to make huge, unreliable cars.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )

        Small EVs get more than 5 miles per kwh now. That's getting down to a penny per mile. And as renewables take over electrical production, the cost of a kwh is going to drop drastically after the initial capital expenditures -- Solar, once bought, just makes essentially free electricity, and that's happening everywhere.

        I have notice it is quite common for buyers of BEVs to follow that up with the purchase of solar panels. It is what I did. The usefulness is going to vary from case to case but for most it is a good ROI giving free miles. In my case probably over 95% of my driving is on power from my solar panels. There is no way petrol, diesel or hydrogen can compete with free.

    • 1. Musk either doesn't have nearly the political sway he imagines himself to, or he drank too much of his own Kool Aid and really does believe that somehow the tax credit going away would actually benefit Tesla. I suppose both could also be true. I've said it many times in the past, even an idiot would realize that an EV-only car manufacturer would be hurt more by the tax credits going away, versus traditional automakers who can fall back on their high profit margin ICE pickup trucks and SUVs.

      2. Japan is

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )

        Japan is just a weird market when it comes to EVs, and this probably manifests itself a bit in their auto manufacturers not seeing their full potential on the global marketplace.

        I blame one person, Akio Toyoda, and a culture that makes people unwilling to speak out against their 'senior'. It is a shame to see how much the blinker narrow view that Akio has against BEVs has doomed Japan's whole economy to tougher times ahead than they needed to be.

        There was a hint there for Japan with the EV1 on the late 1990's, alarm bells with Tesla in the mid 2000's and the Tesla model 3 should have put them into full emergency panic mode in 2017 with the Tesla Model 3. Contrast Japan's progr

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shilly ( 142940 )

      You are so wildly US-focused, it’s hilarious. Honda is a global OEM, yet all you do is talk about US subsidy levels. Obviously the US is an important market for Honda, but it’s not the be-all and end-all, and their approach is not going to work well outside the US.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        What’s even weirder is that he’s supposedly on the left, vehemently anti-Trump, etc. And a core tenet of left-leaning politics is that active state intervention is something that could and should be used to manage markets to deliver better outcomes for society. Healthcare markets in Europe are just one of many examples, having largely been set up and shaped to be the way they are by left-of-centre governments.

        • What’s even weirder is that he’s supposedly on the left, vehemently anti-Trump, etc. And a core tenet of left-leaning politics is that active state intervention is something that could and should be used to manage markets to deliver better outcomes for society.

          I feel like at this point we probably need an explain rsilvergun wiki or something here.

          He doesn't like EV subsidies because:

          1. He actually agrees with conservatives on the whole "I don't want my money being used to buy toys for the rich" thing. Which, to be fair, was a good argument back when Tesla was the only game in town and they really did only sell toys for the rich. These days though, several EVs are actually priced well below the average cost of a new car in the USA.

          2. He believes the majority of

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shilly ( 142940 )

            Ha! Yes, an explainer is definitely in order.

            I wonder if it's something else: black-and-white thinking. He correctly notes that active and public transport have many benefits over EVs, and that the US sorely needs to invest in better active and public transport. But he's so vehement about this, that he cannot also acknowledge that EVs have many benefits of ICE vehicles. He feels he must attack EVs because acknowledging any benefits risks perpetuating car-dependency. Whereas the obvious truth is that we need

          • I.d mod up if I had the points for a rslivergun wiki.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      OMG governments subsidize things they want to happen and punitively tax things they don't want to happen!!!! You've lifted the curtain on something which everyone already knows and happens for obvious reasons.
  • I see ICE owners argue with EV owners. Fact is that most people drive no more than 50 miles a day. If they want to drive 2,000 miles in two days, they want the option. This seems like a good compromise. For 50 miles a day with an option, they can spend the extra money to haul around a generator to re-charge their batteries.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      I think most people are overdimensioning their long and fast trip needs.

      Since I came to the US, 16 years ago, the longest trip I have taken was 600 miles in 1 day. My "typical" long trip is 430 miles one way, and I usually stay there days.

      And I did check all the long routes I have taken. None of them would be a problem with a pure EV. It requires a bit more planning than gas at the moment. But the chargers are located at the kind of places I would stop anyway for breaks: lunch, coffee, bathroom breaks.

      I kno

      • People want to have the option of driving long distances. Currently, while an EV would be cheaper to drive, it is expensive to buy, so likely a lot of people who can buy one (or any new car for that matter) are not concerned as much about fuel costs.

        It's like when I am getting insurance for my car - do I want to only drive in my country or do I want to get insurance that is valid in the rest of the EU for a few Euros more? I have gone to another country four times total, only twice in my car and yet I still

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shilly ( 142940 )

          It’s an interesting analogy because, per the OP’s point, I’ll bet that actually relatively few people buy the extra insurance you describe, and even those who do, often don’t make enough use of it to make the numbers stack up

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ukoda ( 537183 )

          Currently, while an EV would be cheaper to drive, it is expensive to buy

          That depends on what country you are in. Here in New Zealand a new BYD Dolphin is the same price as a Toyota Corolla, and we have no EV subsidies.

          The second hand BEV market is more complicated, mainly because people have not been buying them for long and are keeping them longer, so fewer are available second hand. It will probably take 5 to 10 years before the second hand BEV stabilises at the same kind of prices as the current ICEV second hand market.

      • I know a couple of road warrior who do these east coast/west coast in 4 days. And yeah, I guess anything that doesn't perfectly line up in that use-case becomes a problem.

        Charging adds around 7 hours to a Seatle to Miami (3,300 miles, 48 hours driving, 7 hours charging) [abetterrouteplanner.com] or San Diego to Rhode Island (3000 miles, 44 hours driving, 7.5 hours charging) [abetterrouteplanner.com] in a Tesla Model 3, or about 10 and 12 hours charging for the same trips in an MG4.

        That's not nothing, but it's also not adding an unreasonable amount for someone doing that trip in 4 days. It's a forced 30-40 minute break every 2-3 hours, and turns a each 12 hour driving day into a 14 hour driving + charging day.

        • "Charging adds around 7 hours"

          Does it? Gassing up isn't just putting gas in the car. When you're driving those sorts of distances, you have to also spend time to service things like colons, kidneys, and stomachs. I timed one of my typical stops on a trip back from Las Vegas. I stood there like a boob and watched the gasoline dispense into the tank. Then I went into the store, did bathroom, selected a snack and a drink, came back out, and... 20 minutes.

          Batteries are being announced every week by a d

      • I live on an island and still need >200 miles of [EPA] range, which is about double what driving around the island would be.

        Honestly it is a good decision for Honda; if you can make a hybrid with 50+ mpg the battery offers almost nothing to most consumers. I would never go back to gas, but that is because I have a solar system that is paid for and can easily power my car and everything else without ever needing to go to gas station. It is a much easier sell for most people.

        My 310-mile range car only gets

      • - none of them would be a problem

        - it takes more planning

        Those two things are contradictory.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cyberax ( 705495 )

      If they want to drive 2,000 miles in two days, they want the option. This seems like a good compromise.

      1000 miles a day means 24 hours with an average 40 mph speed. This is just unreasonable, almost nobody drives like that. If you want to travel a more reasonable 600 miles a day, then it's entirely doable on an EV. I did that a bunch of times, it's easy:

      1. Park overnight in a hotel with an EV charger, so in the morning you start with 100% charge (say, 320 miles).
      2. Drive ~240 miles (around 4 hours) and stop at a charging station. Spend 30 minutes to get ~85% of charge (270 miles).
      3. Drive ~200 miles to t

    • It makes sense for some... But it makes the car really complicated. All the parts for an ICE box and also the parts for an EV.

      I think a lot of people would be better off with an EV, renting an ICE car when they need to do their once--or-twice-a-year road trip.

  • How the mightly have fallen... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Valgrus Thunderaxe ( 8769977 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2025 @11:43PM (#65392189)
    Remember, this was the company that at one time had the Prelude, Del Sol Si, ITR, NSX, S2000 and JDM CTR all in their line-up, at the same time.

  • No large charger grid in Japan (Score:3)

    by thesjaakspoiler ( 4782965 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2025 @11:44PM (#65392191)

    The number of public chargers in Japan is fairly limited compared to the US.
    So getting a large user base in Japan is not going to happen.

    • My understanding is that Honda is a largely American Manufacturer. They have many plants in America, have many American workers, and sell to American consumers. Right? Wrong?

      • Honda is a Japanese company. While USA is their biggest market, it is less than half. About 1.6 million out of 4.1

        • Amazon, Google, Facebook and Microsoft are American companies, yet they get a lot of profits around the world. They put a lot of money into the pockets of Americans. I suggest that we not spit in the face of other companies that are based in other Countries.

    • "So getting a large user base in Japan is not going to happen." -- correct.

      "The number of public chargers in Japan is fairly limited compared to the US." -- this is completely irrelevant. All you need for an EV is a 120v plug. With a 240v plug, you're completely set. People with EVs rarely use public chargers. People in Japan, who don't drive city to city (they have a great train network) and wouldn't need public chargers, ever.

      Do you realize in the US the markup on electricity at public fast charger is

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Entrope ( 68843 )

        All you need for an EV is a 120v plug. With a 240v plug, you're completely set.

        Single-phase voltage in Japan is 100 V. If you thought 120 V led to problems with high currents, Japanese electricity will really shock you.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shilly ( 142940 )

          I saw what you did there. Kudos!

        • Re:No large charger grid in Japan (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @04:50AM (#65392577) Homepage

          If you thought 120 V led to problems with high currents, Japanese electricity will really shock you.

          I'm kinda with that Technology Connections YouTuber on this. We have 240v in American homes. We even have several 240v outlet standards. What we don't have, is builders with enough sense to install 240v outlets for anything other than the kitchen range and a clothes dryer.

          In fact, we even have a 240v outlet standard that is a direct drop-in for the same wiring used for standard 15A 120V outlets: the NEMA 6-15. That's right, you can just find some existing outlet circuit that isn't being used for anything else, swap the outlet and replace the breaker with a double-pole model and now you've got 3kw of EV charging capability, without having to run a new wire! Plus, if you're lucky enough that the circuit was originally a 20A (12AWG Romex), you can up the outlet to a NEMA 6-20 and get 3.84kw of output.

          Not wanting to spend the money to have a new NEMA 14-50 outlet (or a hardwired EVSE) installed is one of the more common complaints I hear about EVs. Thing is, most people probably don't really need one. Even if you ran a Tesla Model 3 Long Range down to 10%, an overnight charge from a NEMA 6-20 outlet would have you roughly at 78% by morning. That's probably the most extreme use case, I'd still call that quite acceptable. That, again, is something that only requires swapping an outlet and a breaker on an existing 20A circuit in order to accomplish. Most US homes are actually more "EV ready" than people tend to assume.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        I agree with most of this. My one disagreement is that I think at least some apartment blocks will seek to differentiate by offering charging in their garages, and their electricity setups make it much easier to offer 3-phase AC, which is a nice benefit — 22kW charging in the UK.

        • There's a small handful that can charge at 43kW off AC. It appears that there's just not that much demand for that power level for consumer cars, but it's used for lorries.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by shilly ( 142940 )

            Yes -- I had a Zoe, and 43kW AC charging was its great party trick. But I don't think regular 3 phase AC supplies can deliver that in the UK. I think it required special supplies, which is why I didn't mention it here. By contrast, regular UK supply for apartment blocks will deliver 22kW AC for sure. I even looked at getting it at my house, but it's difficult and pricey, and honestly, something I only need once in a blue moon. If I ever really need to charge in a hurry, I can just go to Brent Cross and char

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )

        There's not going to be a big market for EVs because Japan doesn't have a huge number of personal garages. If you don't have a garage (or at least a parking area where you can run a power cord to your car) buying an EV is STUPID. It's brilliant for suburban people with garages. If you're in an apartment building where the owner either doesn't provide a plug, or provides one but puts a markup on the kilowatts, you're better off with a gas car. (Unless your workplace offers free charging, which thankfully is getting more common.)

        In Japan for people not in densely populated areas with apartment blocks most homes have off street parking. The interesting thing about Japan is in many of those densely populated area you are not allowed to buy a car until you can prove you have a car park for it. If you have you own car park then there exists the option of having a L2, or even L1 charger at it.

  • Translation (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ukoda ( 537183 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @12:10AM (#65392219) Homepage
    I have been studying Japanese for a few years now but I don't need that to translate this. The translations is:
    We can't compete with China selling BEVs so we are giving up and milking the hybrid market for what we can while it still has reasonable sales.
    • China has been caught repeatedly using slave labor to build their cars. They're also cutting a hell of a lot of corners but that's besides the point.

      There is no way in hell you can compete with someone who has access to slave labor. The only sensible thing is not to try and do it in the first place.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Cyberax ( 705495 )

        China has been caught repeatedly using slave labor to build their cars.

        Oh puhlease. China is NOT a cheap labor country anymore, the majority of the workforce there earns a decent salary. Moreover, "slave labor" is useless in modern factories, except maybe for low-tech stuff like leather upholstery.

        • Moreover, "slave labor" is useless in modern factories,

          Right, so they're making solar panels in obsolete factories? You cannot logic away facts.

          https://www.google.com/search?... [google.com]

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Cyberax ( 705495 )
            What "basic facts"? I was not aware that cars use polysilicon solar panels. With information from 2020.

            Here's my basic fact: the US customzied car plates are produced by prisoners forced to do slave labor. That means the US car makers are USING SLAVE LABOR!!!!
      • bullshit. Their factories are high tech and full of robots.

    • Do you need to compete though? Where is Honda? They seem to be largely operating in markets that are not EV friendly. You see virtually none in Europe or China which are the biggest EV markets. The USA and Japanese market is stagnant so Acura has a lot to gain by continuing to supply vehicles to suit the market they are in.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Honda's second EV was just a rebadged Chinese car. It's such a shame because the Honda e was a very, very good little car. If they had continued to develop that they could have produced some really great vehicles.

      Oh well. The Nio Firefly looks like a decent successor. Good range and incredibly efficient, and it has battery swap capability so "recharging" takes about 2.5 minutes. It's supposed to getting a wide release in Europe later this year.

    • We can't compete with China

      Ah China... trying to dodge the soon to be first world economy. They should maybe try to establish huge tariffs, would that be working...

  • So they're going to go out of business? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by locater16 ( 2326718 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @12:24AM (#65392227)
    For reference EVs outsold hybrids for the first time last year worldwide, which was a larger increase in total sales year over year compared to hybrids as well. "Proud to announce we're going to be the Blockbuster to everyone else's Netflix" is definitely a stance.

    • That analogy does not hold. Netflix only closed its physical DVD rental service in end-2023.

      An EV is simply a hybrid without a petrol engine, with a bigger, heavier battery and with range anxiety.

      Most of the planet isn't suited to 'pure' EVs. Hybrids make a lot of sense.

      • On the other hand, the domestic Chinese market has EV's that cost $10,000, that are common sense, can go over 200 miles on a charge, which is what most people need. The USA were banning them to protect.. what.. Tesla? Maybe it is time to let those cars in the USA. I want one.

        • They have a lot to protect: GM, Ford, Exxon, Shell, and a bunch of military suppliers, and the money those folks contribute, so protecting them protects politicians jobs.

          But I'd buy one or more of the cars you're talking about, too.

      • Everyone looks out their window and thinks that's "most of the planet."

        Most of the planet thinks EVs are amazing, because they're cheap, require almost no maintenance, charge with solar panels, and take them the very short distances they currently travel more comfortably than the bus, motorbike, auto-rickshaw, or their feet. Most of the world doesn't drive right now. EVs are way more practical for them than gas cars.

        And China is going to eat that whole market, because we're not in a position to compete at

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shilly ( 142940 )

          Yup. I re-watched that old Hans Rosling video about the future of humanity a few days ago, and there he was, back in 2010, talking about how EVs would be the cars that the developing world would aspire to own.

          https://www.gapminder.org/vide... [gapminder.org].

      • "Most of the planet isn't suited to 'pure' EVs. Hybrids make a lot of sense." in most countries the average trip for 90%+ of the population is between 10-40 miles per day.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shilly ( 142940 )

          Also worth bearing in mind that residential solar is growing like topsy in lots of the developing world, as people seek to insulate themselves from unreliable national grids. An EV with V2L is pretty compelling as an addition — no fuel bills, and a way to provide at least some power at night.

    • For reference EVs outsold hybrids for the first time last year worldwide

      The world is a big place, one that includes various markets dominated by various brands. China massively drove those numbers, as did Europe. Two markets that Honda infamously has virtually no presence in (The only Hondas I've seen locally are motorbikes and lawnmowers).

      There are many areas of the world where EVs are stagnant or virtually on-existent. If Honda operates in those markets it makes sense to continue to produce cars to suit that market. Now this would be a different story if we were talking about

  • Hybrids are the way to go for now (Score:3)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @02:18AM (#65392349)
    At least until batteries get developed that can be charged in under an hour and that can give driving ranges up to 250 miles

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shilly ( 142940 )

      I genuinely can’t tell if this was a joke or serious.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ukoda ( 537183 )
        It has to be a joke, I'm sure FudRucker is not so stupid as to have not noticed that most BEVs made in the last 5 years can exceed both of those requirements.
  • Honda were in the Toyota camp (or under Toyota's thumb) from the beginning. Their BEV story basically amounted to shitting out a couple of massively expensive, underwhelming EVs and then declaring their failure was proof that EVs didn't work. And in most respects they're parroting the same FUD about hydrogen power and anything-but-batteries that Toyota has been doing for years.

  • They are just gas cars with better than average fuel economy. We need fewer gas vehicles, not more.

    • Depends on where you are. For much of the world they are the future, not China or Europe, but the world is full of places where EVs have no meaningful place yet.

  • History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does r (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shilly ( 142940 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @03:47AM (#65392457)

    When you consider how the US OEMs were caught napping by the Japanese manufacturers back in the 80s, and incapable of competing effectively with things like the Toyota Production System, it’s ironic to see the Japanese OEMs now failing to find an effective response to the EV transition and new competition from the Chinese.

    Of course, the big US OEMs survived through protectionism, bankruptcy under very generous terms, etc. But the Japanese OEMs compete on a world stage, and don’t have that huge domestic market to bolster themselves. So they may be in more trouble in the end

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ukoda ( 537183 )

      Japanese OEMs compete on a world stage, and don't have that huge domestic market to bolster themselves. So they may be in more trouble in the end

      If you look at how much of the Japanese economy is made up of their auto manufactures and supporting industries then it looks their whole economy is in for a rough time.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Japanese manufacturers have long supply chains with many different companies all producing component parts. The problem with EVs is that they make a lot of those parts obsolete, and there is nowhere for those companies to transition to. You just don't need a variable gearbox, or a fuel injection system, or emissions control.

      Japan has also failed to build the infrastructure for EVs. There are a decent number of chargers in many areas, but they tend to be older, slower ones, 50kW or maybe 100kW. Many cities r

  • Tough competition with the exploding AI boom ... maybe hybrid is not a bad idea after all.

  • Hybrids are Frankencars (Score:3)

    by mspohr ( 589790 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2025 @11:35AM (#65393157)

    Hybrids primarily appeal to people who are ignorant of EVs and have high range anxiety.
    Hybrids are the worst of both worlds... they have all of the maintenance, pollution and reliability problems of ICE cars with only a small benefit of EV.
    Hybrids are only cheaper because automakers have been making ICE engines for a hundred years and have the sunk costs of all of the machinery to make ICE engines cheaply.
    EV were expensive in the past because they had to invest in lots of new machinery and also batteries were expensive. Now that the cost of batteries has dropped to less than $100/kWh and automakers have more experience and have amortized the machinery, prices are dropping. The Chinese are manufacturing good quality EVs at very low cost (and are making a profit).
    Tesla has been making EVs profitably for years. They had a 15 year head start.

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