Phone Companies Failed To Warn Senators About Surveillance, Wyden Says 55
Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) revealed in a new letter to Senate colleagues Wednesday that AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile failed to create systems for notifying senators about government surveillance on Senate-issued devices -- despite a requirement to do so. From a report: Phone service providers are contractually obligated to inform senators when a law enforcement agency requests their records, thanks to protections enacted in 2020. But in an investigation, Wyden's staff found that none of the three major carriers had created a system to send those notifications.
"My staff discovered that, alarmingly, these crucial notifications were not happening, likely in violation of the carriers' contracts with the [Senate Sergeant at Arms], leaving the Senate vulnerable to surveillance," Wyden said in the letter, obtained first by POLITICO, dated May 21. Wyden said that the companies all started providing notification after his office's investigation. But one carrier told Wyden's office it had previously turned over Senate data to law enforcement without notifying lawmakers, according to the letter.
"My staff discovered that, alarmingly, these crucial notifications were not happening, likely in violation of the carriers' contracts with the [Senate Sergeant at Arms], leaving the Senate vulnerable to surveillance," Wyden said in the letter, obtained first by POLITICO, dated May 21. Wyden said that the companies all started providing notification after his office's investigation. But one carrier told Wyden's office it had previously turned over Senate data to law enforcement without notifying lawmakers, according to the letter.
Bullshit (Score:3, Insightful)
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You misunderstand, read TFS again.
The esteemed senator isn't worried about mass surveillance of the serfs, he's worried about the state spying on him personally.
It is a totally different perspective on surveillance from yours.
"What the Ox suffers, Jupiter doesn't", however that sounds in real Latin.
Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." - Orwell
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Yes, that one.
As told by Snowball.
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If it were any other senator, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
The esteemed senator isn't worried about mass surveillance of the serfs, he's worried about the state spying on him personally.
Normally, I would agree completely with you but Wyden has been very consistent on his position regarding electronic privacy. He's the one who questioned NSA Director James Clapper about mass surveillance and then Clapper lied under oath about it. He was one of the 10 senators that actually vote against reauthorizing the Patriot Act and spoke against it because it allows the collection of "a vast array of business records, emails, phone numbers, [and] even DNA from anyone deemed 'relevant' to an investigation." When it comes to technology, Wyden has been one of the few voices of sanity that is pushing for the common good.
I'm not saying he's perfect but Wyden has a documented history of showing concern for "the serfs".
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I was commenting on general principles, good to know there are exceptions like this person then. More power to him, the general sad condition of politics notwithstanding. Support him then, the case, while not in the context the OP was placing it in, is important - is always a scandal when the government of a democratic country is listening on the private communications of the opposition.
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"I was commenting on general principles..."
By smearing a Senator.
You can dress it up all you want, but the turd is already in the punchbowl.
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Re: (Score:1, Troll)
He's the one who questioned NSA Director James Clapper about mass surveillance and then Clapper lied under oath about it.
Then why should we care about Wyden? Wyden is clearly STILL a senator and James Clapper is still free and James Clapper is currently a Senior Advisor at StellarPeak, Corp.
In other words, Wyden is an ineffective mouthpiece and Clapper is an experienced criminal free to do what he wants despite lying to Wyden in open session.
Wyden is a weak and ineffective person and will get absolutely no satisfaction from this current "investigation". Nobody cares.
Wyden = blah blah blah
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Then why should we care about Wyden?
I was responding to the claim that "The esteemed senator isn't worried about mass surveillance of the serfs, he's worried about the state spying on him personally" and showed that "Wyden has a documented history of showing concern for "the serfs"."
Your claims and grievances are not within the scope of my comment.
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Sure. But the specific law he is talking about only protects US Senators -not the rest of us commoners.
It is elitist to complain that he is not getting the special treatment that we all deserve.
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So "special strokes" for "special folks" eh?
Very typical of "priviledged class" politicians.
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
Not entirely. It is important up to a point to limit the ability of the the executive to listen to the conversations of elected representatives.
But given the context of the comment (original post) and the brief summary I mistakenly assumed this guy is a typical hypocrite, who only complains about things when they concern him personally.
I was corrected [slashdot.org], so while I stand by the comment in general, it appears that in this specific case my sarcasm directed at the senator wasn't warranted.
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You don't think members of a coequal branch of government need "special strokes"? Talk about privilege!
Which members of government deserve surveillance and which deserve protections? That should be an interesting answer.
Re:Bullshit (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: Bullshit (Score:2)
But ⦠but, isnâ(TM)t it like this?
âoeIf you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fearâ.
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Turn off your smart quotes. Nobody is impressed with curly quotes anymore, even on iToys. That fad is so 90s.
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When you have a government that is actively looking to attack anyone who might disagree with Donald Trump, even to the point of fabricating nonsense, EVERYONE should have a reason to be afraid at this point. We are looking at how things would have been in Germany in the 1930s if there was an Internet back then.
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Who cares? Congress is irrelevant. ABSCAM proved they were irrelevant.
What about my phone? (Score:1)
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Nothing peasant. Now eat your porridge.
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porridge
Porridge?? That's grain you planet wrecking democracy destroyer. Now shut up and eat your beetle flakes.
Re: Maybe another contract takes precendent? (Score:2)
Bribes duh
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They still use those 1-900 lines from the 90's. Can't have that coming out.
Re:Maybe another contract takes precendent? (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't think an NDA over-rides law... now if they are an intel agency, they have alternative mechanisms/laws/acts/executive orders to skirt the law and legally override this law requiring the telcos to notify the senator. Most most law enforcement agencies shouldn't have the ability to do this - FBI, and some intel agencies have dedicated resources/procedures for these sorts of investigations.
As for why it's important to notify is simple - senators are sometimes points of contact for whistle blowers - potentially from law enforcement or intel amongst others... but also they deal with legal/justice and intelligence- classified things that a law enforcement agency might not have security clearance to access. They also provide oversight of the justice department, FBI, Intelligence and others... plus do bills, resolutions, nominations, treaties, etc... Hope the judge that signs the warrant has a good reason for signing it... and that the LEO that performed the tap or accessed the records had bulletproof security controls in keeping that data secret.
But also, in todays climate - with the president having their own gestapo (ICE/DEA)... having them tap the phones of senators for intimidation/blackmail/ opposition research/etc is not that out of the realm of possibility.
Fuck, Nixon did it. Trump has and wants to do infinitely worse things. Not saying that senators are above the law. And thus far, there has been nothing shown to say that anyone broke a law. Except for the telcos that did not follow the laws they were supposed to.
The argument that if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry is false - the right to privacy is enshrined in the constitution as is protection from government over reach.
I may not be running a meth lab, but if a corrupt cop wants to trump up charges or follow my car long enough - I'm sure I'll end up on the wrong side of the law at some point... it doesn't mean i should have a cop looking over my shoulder 24/7 looking for a reason to arrest me.
as for the argument with the NSL - the NSL is about wholesale spying on all open coms/meta data... it's not equal to a warrant to tap and target an individual. It's like a doctor looking into your ears compared to a full fist colonoscopy.
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Don't think an NDA over-rides law...
Well normally that would be decided by the courts
But Trump has done away with that inconvenience.
Ask Trump which is more important.
Senator Helpdesk (Score:4, Interesting)
My employer makes recommendations about phone security to everyone and provides more personalized security attention to our execs and other employees in sensitive positions. Senators and their staff are certainly targets; one would think there would be someone other than another senator would doing the same for them, but our government is weird.
World's Smallest Violin (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm going to cry me a river over the people who created the surveillance state being surprised to know that it can be used against them. This is literally what every security expert in the history of the world has been trying to tell them for decades, starting back as far as the Clipper chip absurdity. As soon as you introduce back doors that allow spying on people, regardless of intent, they will be used to cause harm
And these folks wonder why we no longer trust anything without end-to-end crypto.
F**k 'em.
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Really informed as usual. This is what MAGA looks like.
Senators created the surveillance state? Do you hear yourself?
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NSL? (Score:4, Insightful)
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LOL. This deserves so much more than a +3. I wonder why everyone is missing it. I already commented, so there is nothing I can do for you bro. Very insightful.
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They do.
There is a legitimate separation of branches at issue here. Particularly, the executive branch secretly spying on the legislative branch. By requiring notification, the members of the legislative branch have an opportunity to ensure the judicial branch is going along with it.
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"It is a right beyond the standard set all citizens get."
No it's not. "All citizens" do not do the work of the government on government-provided equipment. At issue is not ALL potential surveillance, it is surveillance of a particular type that applies to government representatives.
"Special rights and privilege's ARE NOT equal protection under the law, and are themselves unconstitutional/illegal. "
You're saying the President doesn't get special rights and privileges? Presidential CANDIDATES get special p
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How about this: "By requiring notification, citizens have an opportunity to ensure the judicial branch is going along with it." Without that notification, how does the citizen know their rights aren't being violated? No where in the constitution is members of congress given special rights. They are supposed to be one of us, that simply represents us. But as you allude to, some think there are tiers to citizenship with more rights than other groups.
A
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Immunity is unconstitutional? Tell that to the Supreme Court.
It's all someone having a privilege that you don't, isn't it? Since when is this about an "investigation" anyway? It's about seizing records of GOVERNMENT phones.
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"Also is it even spying? The courts have ruled the phone company owns the records, not the customer."
Yes, of course it is, because it's not about whether the phone company "owns the records", it's about the executive branch OF THE GOVERNMENT seizing them.
"If they have a problem with that, well, they're in a unique position to literally write the laws..."
And also the contracts with the carriers, which they have done, and which the carriers are ignoring. Quite an insight, explaining that the Senate has the p
Re: What's good for the goose is good for the gand (Score:2, Informative)
Obviously any search engine will tell you it was Mitt Romney. I can't believe i got modded troll for this. The Russian bots must be in heat tonight.
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Mitt Romney is a Republican, he wanted to screw ALL Americans. It's part of the purity test. He only got caught saying the 47% part.
People like to think of Romney now as one of the good ones because he rejected Trump, but Romney was a corporate raider, he was the worst kind of scum. Romney IS the piece of shit that's behind the ruining of America and the destruction of the middle class. He's just more palatable than the clown at the head of the party now. Trump is an aberration, he's an opportunistic in
How sad (Score:2)
Another congress critter who thinks he is significant.
Of course the right answer is for all such instructions to have large fines or mandatory prison terms for the perpetrators attached to them. You didn't obey that instruction? Your company will pay 5% of global annual turnover. Won't happen of course, but we're allowed to fantasise, at least at the moment.
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Trump won't go to prison for crimes, the corrupt people on the US Supreme Court have said that a president can now act like a king and it's perfectly acceptable.
With or without a warrant? (Score:2)
Re-write that headline. (Score:2)
Headline should read: "Senators once again pretend to be completely uninformed imbeciles."
It's a convenient way to put on a public show of how outraged they are, but it doesn't reflect reality. Reality is, everyone has known about this surveillance for long enough that we're two decades plus out from a television show that had one of its central themes the surveillance that was known to be being collected from the world's telephones. Once knowledge of that nature is in poop culture, and you're literally dec
Intention? (Score:2)
... failed to create systems for notifying senators about government surveillance on Senate-issued devices -- despite a requirement to do so ...
I rather suspect that they didn't fail to create said systems; rather, they didn't fail to not create those systems. As in 'they decided as soon as the directive was issued that they were going to ignore it'.