KDE Targets Windows 10 'Exiles' Claiming 'Your Computer is Toast' (theregister.com) 108
king*jojo shares a report: Linux desktop darling KDE is weighing in on the controversy around the impending demise of Windows 10 support with a lurid "KDE for Windows 10 Exiles" campaign. KDE's alarming "Exiles" page opens with the text "Your computer is toast" followed by a warning that Microsoft wants to turn computers running Windows 10 into junk from October 14.
"It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will be officially obsolete." Beneath a picture of a pile of tech junk, including a rotary telephone and some floppy drives, KDE proclaims: "Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen."
"It may seem like it continues to work after that date for a bit, but when Microsoft stops support for Windows 10, your perfectly good computer will be officially obsolete." Beneath a picture of a pile of tech junk, including a rotary telephone and some floppy drives, KDE proclaims: "Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen."
FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't stoop to their level. Do better.
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Don't stoop to their level. Do better.
What part of what they said do you believe is incorrect or misleading?
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FYI: me and my clients do still happily use Windows 7, Server 2003, this being typed on iMac from 2007.
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FYI: me and my clients do still happily use Windows 7, Server 2003, this being typed on iMac from 2007.
What is the relevance of you and your clients' disregard for security?
Re:FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:4, Insightful)
In the lesson of realities:
1. It is possible to use older systems with success
2. Newer systems carry newer vulnerabilities
3. Systems are neither secure nor insecure, generally
3.1. They are only assumed secure until vulnerabilities are discovered
3.2. The value of their security depends on the value of information contained, backup copies available, efforts and focus on breaking into them in particular
3.3. The architecture of their deployment has as much to do or more, than version of the software
4. FUD is FUD
Re: FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:3)
Even if everything you said was correct, that doesn't negate the fact that an older unsupported OS will have known, unpatched vulnerabilities. The average end user is not going to be able to evaluate the risk for each one depending on their threat model, if they even know what that means. For the majority, it won't be advisable to continue using Win10 if supported is indeed dropped. But MS will in fact continue to patch it for LTSC releases for some enterprises. They might change their mind about making the
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True. It all depends on how critical it is to have system under constant supervision of the makers. It is my point here, however, to get understanding, that resolutions can vary widely, also, that they do not ensure total security in a complicated system. Theoretically, Linux could be fit in the gap, yet for some reason it still lacks in user interface and general integrity/completeness, comparing to popular products.
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Total security in a very complex system cannot exist, obviously. You have to keep on top of it to patch vulnerabilities as they are found.
Linux is just not designed for the average end user. There are still far too many system settings that can only be accessed through some command-line interface. I don't think it will fill the gap as a desktop OS. There are also so many distros doing things differently. And even within one distro, things change/break significantly from one release to another. MS changes th
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I'd think there's a much higher probability of a Win 11 user getting hooked in a phishing scam than a Win 10 user getting hit by some exploit.
That might be true, but it's not an either-or. Both things can be happening at once. Anyone who has watched firewall logs, or even more hilariously put a machine on the open internet (so it's actually responding to requests) and watched incoming connections knows that there are numerous threat actors continually scanning for unprotected systems. You put an older or even just unpatched system on the net and let it sit for a while and you'll see just what the odds actually are.
But I'm behind a firewall so it
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Yes, another client of mine still prefers to use XP. And does fine with a little help of mine.
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Scenarios and choices can vary widely. There are choices, my clients being part of a solid corporation, were forced to make. Ended in poor profitability and were dismissed to much different owners of late. Glad, I had to leave them in the true technical chaos, that followed partnering with an alternate corporation. While there are other clients, who are focused on utmost economy, and use systems far beyond their support. I do help them to achieve it, too.
Your language is insulting for how little you actuall
Re: FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:2)
Win7 may be ok if the box is airgapped, never connected to any network, and you can control who has physical access.
As far as hookers without condoms, there are things like PreP, DoxyPEP, and contraceptive pills, that make it fairly risk free.
There are no equivalents of these for software/IT security if the vendor drops support.
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My organization too still have some Windows 7 in use, I guarantee neither those users, nor we, the IT, are happy about that.
Re: FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:1)
"Windows 10 will degrade as more and more bugs come to light. With nobody to correct them, you risk being hacked. Your data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen."
The implication that merely by running a 'supported' operating system/software your "data, identity, and control over your device could be stolen" is at least misleading.
Peoples data and identities are constantly stolen from devices running a supported operating system/software - it may be 'easier' on an unsupported operating system/software, but you are vulnerable no matter what you install on your computer...
Re: FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:2, Funny)
"i'm not a retarded seal playing disingenuous with cute questions"
No, you're a genuine idiot.
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It's fair. When Microsoft's hardware requirements provides competitors with an opportunity to attract users that don't care to upgrade hardware to suit Microsoft, those competitors should take advantage.
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I'm going to bet that it doesn't happen on a big scale. Enthusiasts will do it, but most people will just ignore the warnings and eventually buy another Windows computer.
People don't care about those warnings. Computers are always warning them about critically important stuff, and experience has taught them that there are rarely any real consequences to ignoring those notifications.
If there is any benefit to other vendors, it will probably be to Chromebooks and Android tablets. Linux is still too painful fo
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I'm going to bet that it doesn't happen on a big scale.
Sure. I don't think so either. That wasn't the point.
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Re: FUD is beneath you Linux (Score:2)
<> ?
Its NOT FUD (Score:3)
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Saving computers from the landfill is not fud,
It's not. But trying to do so by telling people that if they don't install your OS their computer will catch fire, explode, and kick their dog certainly is.
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I have said it before [slashdot.org], but basically the worry is that there are bad actors sitting on Win10 0days waiting for EOL.
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I have said it before [slashdot.org], but basically the worry is that there are bad actors sitting on Win10 0days waiting for EOL.
We heard the same every time Microsoft ends support for their OS'.
Especially XP - Damn, the sky was gonna fall hard, a regular Xpocalypse. Made Y2K look like Y2K, which is to say panic for nothing.
Except it didn't. And I can take you to a fair number of local places that are still on XP.This isn't to say they shouldn't upgrade, they really should, and a lot of that is hardware eol in addition to software. But especially businesses are a bit cynical about the need to spend all the money needed to mov
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To be fair, for ordinary users XP was a security disaster. Back then I used to make a living cleaning up XP virus infections. Windows 7 and in particular Windows 10 really improved security, and while you can still use XP for some stuff, I wouldn't recommend it for anything internet related.
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They said it's becoming unsupported in the free tier. And they advise you to switch to something that has a supported free tier. Linux/KDE can only strictly better than Windows 10 at this respect starting October 14.
But! (Score:2)
Wut? Download a distro, put the ISO on a thumb drive, and make certain the computer is on the internet, boot from the thumb drive, select a couple things, and sit back and enjoy a brew.
If installing Linux is something too difficult for a person, maybe they should just buy a Chromebook.
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Wut? Download a distro, put the ISO on a thumb drive, and make certain the computer is on the internet, boot from the thumb drive, select a couple things, and sit back and enjoy a brew.
Then they select the wrong option, and all of their data vanishes.
Perhaps the advice to be careful is warranted.
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>boot from the thumb drive
lol, bro still thinks the industry is cooperative about this
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>boot from the thumb drive
lol, bro still thinks the industry is cooperative about this
Bro installs Linux on computers rather regularly. Perhaps you think it is difficult. That's a you problem.
Re: But! (Score:2)
KDE should give a glossy experience I think a lot of windows users would relate to. Good on K for going after this.
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Installing Linux is simple enough for a 7 year old. Also much easier than installing windows... get the kid to do it, but you drink the beer. KDE should give a glossy experience I think a lot of windows users would relate to. Good on K for going after this.
Pretty much this. Sometimes I think a lot of us here think everyone else is stupid.
And yes - it is simpler than installing Windows.
I'm still fighting with Windows support over a copy of W11 that was bought from Microsoft, but the machine refuses to accept that is a valid copy. I have the receipts, they can see that I porches a legit copy, but it's still screwing with me.
Microsoft Support was friendly but useless, ( I've never gotten satisfaction once from MS support) they worked with me for a whil
Re: But! (Score:1)
Windows 10/11 install is no harder than any mainstream Linux install.
Every Win 10 computer that will lose support in October has the right to upgrade to Win 11, IF THE HARDWARE supports it. That said, the universe of windows users that are 'at risk' are those that either are running hardware that doesn't support Win 11 or that for whatever reason refuse to avail themselves of the free upgrade to Win 11. There are many, many Windows 10 users that could upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11 but so far have chosen not
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The mainstream installers really try to prevent the problem you're talking about.
Re: But! (Score:2)
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I can't think of any software that doesn't allow you to shoot yourself in the foot if you're determined.
Consoles avoid footguns (Score:2)
"software that doesn't allow you to shoot yourself in the foot if you're determined"
I can think of some: Retail video game console operating systems.
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And if all you have is one partition with your data and OS, and don't think to back things up or split the drive and move things around? None of that is obvious to non-technical users who will be mighty pissed when all of their files disappear.
The average user can't do any of that when installing Windows either.
KDE is the best DE (Score:3, Informative)
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I disagree. While its memory footprint is quite low these days, it does take a while to load. On top of that, it feels a bit clunky. I like Cinnamon more than KDE/Plasma. Cinnamon behaves sooo much smoother.
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There might be a bit of a branding problem. I can guess what "konsole" is, but Kate, Dolphin, and Okular? What in the world are those?
If I, a software developer for 35 years, don't know what these things are, I guarantee your Grandma doesn't know.
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Are you saying you never had to learn what "Excel" is? or "Powerpoint"?
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Everyone knows what Excel and PowerPoint are, because Microsoft heavily advertises those names. That is what successful brand names do. If you want to make up a brand name, and make sure everyone know it, you've got to promote your name.
KDE doesn't do that, certainly not on any kind of scale large enough to make those names known.
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Everyone knows what Excel and PowerPoint are, because Microsoft heavily advertises those names. That is what successful brand names do. If you want to make up a brand name, and make sure everyone know it, you've got to promote your name.
KDE doesn't do that, certainly not on any kind of scale large enough to make those names known.
Good grief, Y'all Grams must be intellectually challenged or sumpin'.
I've set up several Grandmas with Linux, and they haven't missed a beat. Some I gave notes, but most just want to do email, surf the web, and maybe write things. And the meme of the oldster who is afraid to learn is just that, a meme.
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And the meme of the oldster who is afraid to learn is just that, a meme
You clearly haven't met my family.
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Does your grandma knows what Firefox, Chrome, Edge are? (to not talk about Opera) My 76 y.o. mom knows nothing of computers, but got used about the function of "dolphin" just as well she got used at the function of "firefox" or "the ball" (which is how she calls Wikipedia) or "cloudview" (which means nothing, she confuses Nextcloud and Teamviewer, none of which mean anything either).
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To clarify: My opinion is it is normal to name their software other than giving the name of their basic function, because in free OSes there frequently are several software installed for each kind. So you cannot call your thing "File explorer", you get to call things like "Nautilus", "Dolphin", "Gentoo" (file manager) or "pcmanfm-qt", "midnight commander". Thankfully the menu of the DE can be configured to display both a nickname and the function.
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Nope, my grandma hasn't been alive for 20 years. But my 84-year-old father does know Chrome and what it does. No, he doesn't know the alternatives, but the more important point is that he knows what Chrome does. Just about nobody knows what Dolphin does, even people who are technical.
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can guess what "konsole" is, but Kate, Dolphin, and Okular? What in the world are those?
Your own argument is that KDE software name aren't well chosen because most of the time their function cannot be guessed. My answer is that it also isn't the case in other software.
Your argument rephrased: if an hypothetical grandma takes a look at a KDE computer, she finds "Dolphin" an "Falkon", how is she supposed to know what they do (these are names of animals not a software function). My answer is that this not a KDE specific. The same hypothetical grandma would have a look at a computer with "Nautilus
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The difference is marketing. Those companies that choose names like Safari, Chrome, and Edge, spend tons of money on advertising to try to enlighten people on the meaning of those words. They are successful to varying degrees with varying audiences. The most successful of these efforts is Excel and Word, both of which are well-known by just about anybody who uses a computer. That didn't just happen organically, it happened because Microsoft spent millions on advertising. If you have a brand name like Dolphi
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Fortunately neither you nor your Grandma need to know any way. You click on the "start menu" search for editor, and you'll see it there too, listed as "KDE Advanced Text Editor." And if you search for "file manager" you'll find Dolphin clearly listed as "file manager." Or you open the "Utilities" section of the system menu. Whatever floats your boat.
The names of the binaries aren't all that important to such users. For them, these are under-the-hood implementation details that they need not concern them
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Grandmas don't know that you can click the Start Menu and "search". Believe me, they don't. They generally only know how to manually find icons on the desktop, not even in the Start Menu.
Oh, and Windows calls it "File Explorer" not just "Explorer". The name actually means what it does. That's pretty helpful, if you know what I mean!
But hey, I don't have anything against your use of KDE. Just don't expect regular people to start using it when it tries to confuse them with meaningless names. Names matter, a L
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And yet that's how you use Windows 11, like it or hate it. Computers aren't for everyone, even in this day and age.
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Okular is a great name for a great utility.
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I'll bite. What do you like about the name? And how does that name relate to what the utility does?
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I think it's a great name, and the functionality is good, but the interface is bad.
At least it works reliably, unlike Adobe Reader. If you have reader open too long, features like highlighting stop working.
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Dolfin is just the file-manager. Okular is the PDF reader, will open automatically when you double-click on a pdf.
Re: KDE is the best DE (Score:3)
When I install a KDE system for someone, I right-click the app menu -> configure app menu -> choose "Description (Name)" for the "Show applications as" option.
This should really be the default. Then, Dolphin is displayed as "File Manager (Dolphin)", Konsole is "Terminal (Konsole)", Kate is "Advanced Text Editor (Kate)" and Kwrite is "Text Editor (Kwrite)".
May be finally time to switch (Score:2)
I have a couple of laptops on Win11 already but my desktop, where I do 99% of my work, is all but toast.
When Win10 came around I was thinking I'd switch to Linux, but caved in and upgraded from Win7 anyway.
I put up with Win10 but everything I really disliked about Win10 was dialed to 11 in Win11 (no pun intended). The ads, the forced compliance, but especially the whole AI integration thing. Maybe this time I will just do it and switch over. I only have to do it once right? :)
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Re: May be finally time to switch (Score:2)
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Re: May be finally time to switch (Score:2)
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Thanks for the tips. I think I will try the second drive thing.
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Re: May be finally time to switch (Score:1)
When Win10 came around I was thinking I'd switch to Linux, but caved in and upgraded from Win7 anyway.
Are you still running the same hardware you ran Win 7 on? If that's the case, Win 11 isn't an option on your 15 year-old system.
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FX-8350 8-core. Maxed out ram and running on SSDs but runs Win10 fine so far.
Re: May be finally time to switch (Score:1)
Every couple (Score:2)
Every couple of years I see stories like this, targeting Windows refugees because hardware requirements force computers to turn into ewaste.
The desktop browsing shifts half a percent or so. People don't care about their computer OS. You could tell the users they have to watch a 45minute advert before they can start programs and they'll rather suck it up and wait for it to change than to install a new OS. Half the users don't think there is a choice other than Windows/Mac.
What's needed is better IT education
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People might not care about the details of their OS, but they do care that it runs their favorite software. For many, that is Word and Excel and Outlook. For others, it's their favorite computer game or accounting software like QuickBooks.
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Years ago there was a valid reason to use Apple, there was better memory management system.
The only other reason might be the Adobe experience on Apple is worth the financial burden of running the Apple ecosystem. Is it that better? I can't see why someone would pay the difference now, everything is online and there are more native applications for Windows than Apple.
Or is the Apple ecosystem just a status symbol?
I'm not much of an artist, but if I can figure out how to use GIMP/Krita, I'm sure real artists
Is KDE on old hardware really a good experience? (Score:1)
I can't imagine modern Linux versions running KDE running on 10 year old hardware is going to be a great experience. Especially if they're still using a PC with a hard drive for storage.
Sure, they're probably used to a horrible UI experience by using a Windows 10 PC loaded with years of bloatware, but this isn't going to seem like much of an improvement to them.
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It works fine. Windows 10 does too.
40% of desktop computers sold in 2015 had SSDs, and lots of those got upgraded too. But Windows 11 requires CPUs that didn't exist until 2017 and 2018, and weren't dominant until later still, so we're not really talking about "10 year old hardware."
Re: Is KDE on old hardware really a good experienc (Score:2)
I've got a PC sitting on my desk that's from 2012 with a quad core processor, 12gb RAM, and the HDD was upgraded to SSD in like... 2017? KDE feels snappy with the onboard video.
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My daily driver is an MSI laptop quadcore from 2015 running arch linux with KDE and it is still a great experience. I can decode and play seemlessly 4K 60fps video with no problem using mpv. My browser is chromium based and chrome://gpu shows most function as hardware accelerated. I'm sure gaming experience would be subpar but I'm not a gamer so I don't care. Only modification I made is replacing the mechanical hard drive with an ssd.
I even dual boot with the latest macos sequioa with all Apple services ava
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No need to imagine. You can probably get a 10 year old laptop for nothing if you try.
Personally, I use an Lenovo T43 with Ubuntu daily. I bought it new in 2006. I still have the original H/D with Win2k pro on it - I use it to drive an embroidery machine.
But for everyday use, I have Ubuntu+MATE on a 650GB SSD. Its fine.
I am not a gamer. I am a nerd. My idea of a relaxing evening is laying
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I am not a gamer. I am a nerd. My idea of a relaxing evening is laying out a PCB with KiCAD or posting here on /.
Lol, me too. Not sure if it's because I'm "a nerd" or just that TV is so so rubbish these days :-)
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Yes. Back when 64 MB RAM were standard, KDE was "bloated" compared to things like IceWM. Nowadays where 4+ GB RAM are standard, the complete KDE desktop uses less RAM than your browser alone.
Re: Is KDE on old hardware really a good experienc (Score:2)
Well to be fair, your browser probably uses more memory than all your other software.
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True. But plasma + kwin really don't add much to that. You can use a bit more RAM if you use more KDE programs, but the alternatives are not for free either.
Re:Is KDE on old hardware really a good experience (Score:5, Informative)
The bottom line is Linux really can bring a second life to legacy hardware.
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My current BYOD work lapotop is a 2017 dual-core with HDD. It came with Window 10, which I immediately replaced with linux/KDE. The slow part is only the first run of each software, including the first load of the full desktop from cold. Or chromium, thunderbird. The running speed of regular software is fine. I even do limited CAD with it (freecad, librecad, klayout).
I do recommend Acer. All screws identical, no glue, I replaced the battery, a broken key, and upgraded the RAM all by myself.
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>"I can't imagine modern Linux versions running KDE running on 10 year old hardware is going to be a great experience."
It will be fine. I have lots of machines that are 10+ years old and can run KDE/Plasma with no problems. But there is also Cinnamon, MATE, XFCE, lots of choices for lighter weight if needed.
Thankfully you don't even have to install anything to find out. Just boot a live Linux off USB and play with it, but keep in mind it will be slower on a flash drive so the ultimate experience will
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If it can run win10 it can run modern linuxes. Other than create more landfill there's no reason to deprecate those older machines. OEMs probably had a talk with Microsoft because they weren't selling as many machines. TBH, I don't see the need to change my Ivy Bridge or Broadwell machines.
T R O L L ?? (Score:2)
'scuse me, but prove said computer was not TOAST whenever MS-win10 was least-bad? It will only get slightly worst after alleged-support ends in October.
Linux has been running main my machines since 2000 with a few island MS machines that occasionally get booted to run specific software (never more than one per). The idea of any MS-OS being suitable for general-purpose, 24/7 is beyond risible--all require too much maintenence.
Instant power loss for games (Score:1)
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We must all do our part to end Microsoft.
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Graphic card losses are way lower or sometimes even non-existing (AMD)
Often enough games run better with Linux then with Windows.
While my main game Eve Online has lower performance with Proton (still get 60FPS multi-client so care), it is way more stable under heavy load.
Generally in the big fights I'm one of the last to crash. That is why I often got appointed backseat-FC, the one that has to take over when the fleet commander goes down/crashes.
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Using Linux will I lose pretty much all my modded Windows games and all Windows games that aren't Steam.
Nonsense. Most games without kernel DRM will work fine. Even many of those can be patched to remove that DRM. The only games you're definitely not going to be able to play on Linux are modern online games with heavy DRM. Those will know they've been patched and refuse to allow you to play.
You can run Vortex and MO2 easily on Linux, which AFAICT covers most of the modding scene. Using steamtinkerlaunch, which works for non-steam games as well, you can even get browser integration for them without having to d
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Every time I set up a Windows machine I have to do a ton of stuff to it just to make it usable, then various Windows Updates break it over time and I have to fix it again.
Yeah. No. This is a *you* problem, not an OS problem. This is such high-class FUD it deserves an award of some kind.
I have never encountered these mystical issues. Ever.
Great, what about firmware? (Score:2)
Great, so what about firmware/microcode that these laptop manufacturers will have abandoned? Can we really take a larger view on what maintenance for systems looks like? If something needs software/firmware, it needs updates. all of it.