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California Court Says Holding Phone For Maps While Driving is Illegal (sfchronicle.com) 157

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
California law prohibits "operating" a mobile phone while driving. And that makes it illegal for a driver to hold a cellphone in order to look at a map, a state appeals court ruled this week. From a report: In a 2016 law intended to strengthen previous restrictions, "the Legislature intended to prohibit all handheld functions of wireless telephones while driving" and "to encourage drivers to keep their eyes on the road," said the 6th District Court of Appeal.

A Superior Court panel had reversed a driver's conviction for a traffic infraction and $158 fine in San Jose, ruling that the law prohibited only "actively using or manipulating" a hand-held phone for actions such as talking or listening, browsing the internet or playing video games while driving. The appeals court reinstated the conviction and the fine, in a ruling that could set a statewide standard unless it is narrowed or overturned on appeal.

California Court Says Holding Phone For Maps While Driving is Illegal More | Reply

California Court Says Holding Phone For Maps While Driving is Illegal

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  • maps are every bit as distracting as texts. put the phone in a holder

    • Re:seems fair enough (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Valgrus Thunderaxe ( 8769977 ) on Thursday June 05, 2025 @11:01AM (#65429548)
      maps are every bit as distracting as texts.

      So is that GIANT TOUCHSCREEN right in the middle of the dashboard you need to control your AC and wipers, but somehow, this is OK.

      • It being OK is up to a perspective but it is absolutely 100% preferable to holding your phone in one hand while driving; larger screen easier to read at a glance, both hands available to drive.

        • It being OK is up to a perspective but it is absolutely 100% preferable to holding your phone in one hand while driving; larger screen easier to read at a glance, both hands available to drive.

          The main problem with the maps on the phone is the distraction to the eyes. Glancing at a fixed point (like a built-in screen or a mirror) takes less time than looking at a phone that will be in a different position each time, especially when that phone is held in a non-optimal position that requires tilting one's head and not just shifting one's eyes.

        • It being OK is up to a perspective but it is absolutely 100% preferable to holding your phone in one hand while driving; larger screen easier to read at a glance, both hands available to drive.

          This is the part that is relevant to the law. The phone is allowed in a holder "on the dashboard, the lower windshield, or the center console, as long as it doesn't obstruct the driver's view or interfere with the vehicle's controls" and can be used "hands free" (speakerphone, voice commands, integrated controls).

          Reaching out and manipulating the phone with your hand while it is in the holder can result in a "distracted or reckless driving" citation. People used to get tickets for "distracted or reckless

      • That giant touchscreen is attached to the car so, yeah, there's a difference.

        If the driver in the case had spent five bucks on a vent-mounted phone clip, things would never have got to this point. However, he chose to behave like a bell-end, and so was rightly found guilty.

        FWIW, I think touch-screen controls for things like A/C, wipers, demist and audio volume are the stupidest idea in cars since... actually, I can't think of anything stupider.

        Oh, wait. This was. [lelandwest.com]

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Junta ( 36770 )

        He said "put the phone in a holder". You aren't holding the giant touchscreen.

        I'll agree it kind of sucks, but at least you aren't using your hands to juggle a device while you really need them to steer.

      • Ha! You should switch at a Mazda. They got it soooo right with the current 3. The central screen is reasonably sized; big enough but not huge. And it's not a touchscreen! They put in this wheel thing that you can spin, shift from side-to-side, and press down, to control CarPlay. It's right down there where I reach to shift anyway. AND they put the volume, favorites, and other infotainment controls down there too. They actually THOUGHT ABOUT THE UI, unlike just about every other auto manufacturer out

        • Ha! You should switch at a Mazda. They got it soooo right with the current 3. The central screen is reasonably sized; big enough but not huge. And it's not a touchscreen! They put in this wheel thing that you can spin, shift from side-to-side, and press down, to control CarPlay.

          That's great for media, but garbage for any other kind of input. Is it really not a touch screen, or does it just have an additional control method? If it's the latter that's great, if it's the former you're celebrating poor usability.

        • Just rented a Mazda 3 last weekâ¦. The screen was a touchscreen. And the CarPlay controls there were crap compared to my wifeâ(TM)s Hyundai.

      • So is that GIANT TOUCHSCREEN right in the middle of the dashboard you need to control your AC and wipers, but somehow, this is OK.

        Never seen someone drop a giant touchscreen or fumble with its cable, or squint to read it, or hold it at waist height moving your entire head so you couldn't even see the road from the corner of your eyes. So yes, indeed, this is okay.

      • Speak for yourself. My AC controls are actual physical buttons/knobs. Muscle memory lets me adjust without looking.

    • You know what's more distracting? Trying to figure out what lane you're supposed to be in while struggling to see every sign and not knowing where you are or how to get back if you take an exit or wondering if the wrong turn will take you on a 15 minute detour or if you'll have enough gas to make it, or...

      Dumb laws for dumb people. If you can't drive, get off the fucking road.

      • If you are going into an unknown area, look at it in a map before you start driving. Either that or just allow time to make mistakes while keeping with the flow of traffic. Don't do stupid stuff like crossing 2 lanes of traffic or stopping suddenly or cutting off a lane of traffic while you try to nose in to a line for your intended exit. Just take the next exit and learn how to do it for next time...

        • None of that allays the distraction of those things happening. You're still spending a portion of your attention on those things. And that's the type of distraction that leads to mistakes.

          Having a phone in my hand is not a distraction. If it is for you, then put the phone down. If I need a hand free, I can toss my phone to the passenger side at a moments notice. I don't remember this ever happening though, because I actually pay attention when driving, so I don't tend to get surprised.

          It's far more distract

    • Let's be real - anything that takes your hands off the wheel increases risk of loss-of-control.

      Get a $20 phone mount and save yourself the ticket, or the crash. For fucks sake.

  • Good. The Law, Reason, and Intent are Clear. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eepok ( 545733 ) on Thursday June 05, 2025 @11:02AM (#65429554) Homepage

    If you NEED to use your smartphone, pull over and use it. Set it to give audible driving directions. Need to change directions on the fly? No you don't. Pull over and use the phone at a safe location.

    Impairment, distraction, and unsafe speed for the conditions are the biggest killers on the road. Don't be a killer.

  • hands-free kit (Score:5, Insightful)

    by 4im ( 181450 ) on Thursday June 05, 2025 @11:22AM (#65429598)

    There is such a thing as a hands-free kit. Fix that phone someplace accessible with such a kit, and you're good to go. But hold it to your ear for phoning, and you'll get fined. At least, that's pretty much it for most, if not all of Europe.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      There is such a thing as a hands-free kit. Fix that phone someplace accessible with such a kit, and you're good to go. But hold it to your ear for phoning, and you'll get fined. At least, that's pretty much it for most, if not all of Europe.

      Pretty much this. It's been the law for years in every developed country that any mobile device, even when used as a navigation aid, must be secured to the vehicle in a cradle (holder). Its the same in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, I'd be very surprised if it were not very similar over on the continent or in Japan. Most countries even specify that it must be able to be used without interacting with the screen.

      I've a Kenu Airframe that attaches to the AC vent because I don't like anything obscuring my w

  • I guess nobody remembers what it was like to unfurl a fanfold paper map across the whole dashboard at 70 mph.

    When I'm using a map app, I hold the phone so that I can see the map and the road at the same time. Putting it in a holder means I have to look away from the road. I don't get it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by spitzak ( 4019 )

      The idiocracy is real...

    • When I'm using a map app, I hold the phone so that I can see the map and the road at the same time. Putting it in a holder means I have to look away from the road. I don't get it.

      Don't get what, that there are holders which can be mounted in your line of sight?

    • You do not look at the phone and the map at the same time. It's physically fucking impossible. The focal distances are vastly different. You suffer from two major problems. Trying to juggle focus and context switching.

      And I don't know anybody who unfurled a map while driving a car. That's just plain stupid. And I grew up driving on highways and using maps.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by registrations_suck ( 1075251 )

      I guess nobody remembers what it was like to unfurl a fanfold paper map across the whole dashboard at 70 mph.

      No, because I'm not a moron.

  • good luck enforcing this. People are ridiculous with phones and driving.

  • It's far more distracting to look away from the road to see the map. Better to have it in my face.

    And to those saying you need two hands to drive, obviously you have never driven a stick.

    • And to those saying you need two hands to drive, obviously you have never driven a stick.

      That's why I need two hands to drive. My hand is not usually on the stick, except when I'm in traffic. On the highway the wheel moves around enough that it's wise to use both hands to manage it, thanks to the amazing quality of American roads. This is not difficult, especially when using both hands, but it does require constant corrections. So either I need both hands so I can have one on the wheel and one on the stick, or I need both hands so I can have them both on the wheel, in order to drive safely.

    • Have what in your face? It's far more distracting to have to manipulate a mobile phone, read on a small screen, and very much you do *NOT* put it in your face, most people look further away from the road with their phone than they do on their car navigation (which for me is in the middle of the steering wheel ... in my face).

  • the car phone cradle market is the largest benefactor from this ruling

  • Yeah, it's easy to pass a law at everything you thing might be a problem, or even an opportunity to write more tickets and make more money, without a thought to what might happen because of it. So they don't see a problem with a guy that is suddenly lost 'cuz the exit he was intending to use is closed with an overturned semi, he can't look at the phone to route around it, and also knows that somewhere ahead is "that neighborhood" that you're likely to get carjacked if you're driving anything more valuable

  • Are they allowed to use the microphone while driving? What a frickin' nanny state...

  • TN does it already. They've gone as far as saying NO electronic devices. So now I'd get hit for using my HAM radio while driving.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Zak3056 ( 69287 )

      As a licensed radio operator, you are eligible for emergency tags in the state of Tennessee. While that wouldn't insulate you fully from the effects of the law, I can't imagine law enforcement pulling over someone with emergency tags talking into a handheld radio, so this could be a solution to your problem.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gwjgwj ( 727408 )
      Does it mean, that you cannot use your pacemaker?

      • If your pacemaker is handheld, you have pretty big medical issues.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gwjgwj ( 727408 )
          "1) A person, while operating a motor vehicle on any road or highway in this state, shall not: (A) Physically hold or support, with any part of the person's body, a (ii) Stand-alone electronic device " Is a pacemaker a "stand-alone electronic device"? I do not know. It is definitely supported by some parts of the person's body.

        • If your pacemaker is handheld, you have pretty big medical issues.

          Yep. And people with Bi/R/LVADs can legally drive.

          Think about that - someone whose every successful heartbeat depends 100% on a cord attached to a battery-operated original-iPod type device in their pocket, is legally allowed to get out there and do 75mph in a 3500 pound chemical factory on wheels, right next to you and your family.

  • Nanny laws simply are not enforced. It might come up in court or an insurance claim but police will not pull you over for cellphone usage. California already has laws for seatbelt, cellphones, headlights, emergency vehicles, not to mention every other driving infraction and the simple fact is- nobody cares.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Mal-2 ( 675116 )

      Yes, they will. It helps make quota so they don't have to invent as many "broken taillight" scenarios to pull people over.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by r0nc0 ( 566295 )
      Yes they are - all the damn time. I made the mistake of picking up my phone in my car in San Francisco once and a cop spotted me and instantly pulled me over to give me a ticket. The only place that probably WONT happen is in Oakland because the police are just too busy fucking prostitutes to be bothered.

  • When we replaced our old car, we jumped a lot of generations. While I'm no fan of the giant touchscreen, the HUD is great. Need to turn? There's an arrow in your field of vision, to go along with the audible prompt.

    Before that, sure, it was a map on the phone, but guess what, you can Mount your phone near your line of sight. Holding it in your hand, probably where you have to look down to see it? Yeah, not allowable.

  • I guess I'll have to pull out my Thomas Guide, which is somehow ok and has been for decades, instead.

  • Vigilante mindset (Score:5, Interesting)

    by devslash0 ( 4203435 ) on Thursday June 05, 2025 @01:54PM (#65430000)

    Where I live (UK) it's been illegal to use your phone since 2003, with a few revisions throughout the years. Since 2022, it's been illegal to use your phone for anything while driving, including maps or scrolling through playlists on Spotify.

    We've now also got smart cameras around that can catch you on your phone and automatically issue penalties.

    Yet, all this is still not enough to stop some people from keeping their hands on their phones.

    That's why I started hunting them down myself.

    I used a raspberry pi and 2 cameras - one front, one rear - that record video all the surroundings wherever I go, and not a day goes past where someone behind me is not on their phone while in traffic.

    Did I also mention that in the UK you can submit video footage directly to the police and they will act on it?

    Yep. I submit all my footage.

  • After all what could possibly be unsafe about unfolding a huge tissue thin piece of paper to block your view.

  • Duh? (Score:3)

    by TJHook3r ( 4699685 ) on Thursday June 05, 2025 @05:47PM (#65430588)
    Do people really not know they can buy a cradle for a phone for about $2? Who on earth is using a phone in their hand to navigate anyway? How do they hold their beer /s

  • Up to 6 penalty points, up to unlimited fine, potential loss of your license for several years, after which you have to re-pass the current driving test. If there are multiple offences in the same event (e.g. "causing death by dangerous driving" in addition to DCA) you can get a lot more.

    The exact sentencing guidelines have changed every so often, but the law has been essentially the same since the 1950s. When the problem was people trying to read the newspaper while driving and changing gear with a crash g

  • Why do the police get a pass on this? They have entire fucking laptops on while driving!

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