America Invested in EV Battery Plants. Now They May Be Stranded. (msn.com) 140
An anonymous reader shared this report from the Washington Post:
Over the past three years, companies have invested tens of billions of dollars toward making electric vehicles in the United States, buoyed by tax incentives aimed at helping American businesses compete with China. Now, those companies are facing a strange problem: too much manufacturing capacity, not enough demand.
As sales of electric vehicles slow and congressional Republicans take aim at EV tax credits and incentives, the United States is slated to have more battery and EV manufacturing than it needs, according to a report released Wednesday by the Rhodium Group, a research firm. That could leave factories — many of which are already operating or under construction — stranded if car sales continue to slump. "The rug is being pulled out from under these manufacturers," said Hannah Pitt, a director in Rhodium's energy and climate practice...
After [America's 2022 climate bill], battery investment in the U.S. skyrocketed. Companies went from investing about $1 billion per quarter in 2022 to $11 billion per quarter in 2024. Most of that battery investment went to red states, including in the South's "Battery Belt," where manufacturers were drawn to inexpensive land and a nonunionized workforce. Now, however, that battery boom is teetering. In the first three months of 2025, companies canceled $6 billion in battery manufacturing — a record. EV sales have slowed...
According to the new report, the United States has almost enough battery capacity announced or under development to meet demand all the way to 2030 if EV sales continue to slump. That might sound like a good thing — but if EV sales drop further, it means companies will be left with factories they won't be able to use. At the same time, China has excess battery capacity. The country has enough manufacturing to meet the entire world's demand for batteries — and may be looking to off-load them onto other markets... And if the incentives for using U.S.-made batteries disappear, the nation's manufacturers would be left high and dry.
As sales of electric vehicles slow and congressional Republicans take aim at EV tax credits and incentives, the United States is slated to have more battery and EV manufacturing than it needs, according to a report released Wednesday by the Rhodium Group, a research firm. That could leave factories — many of which are already operating or under construction — stranded if car sales continue to slump. "The rug is being pulled out from under these manufacturers," said Hannah Pitt, a director in Rhodium's energy and climate practice...
After [America's 2022 climate bill], battery investment in the U.S. skyrocketed. Companies went from investing about $1 billion per quarter in 2022 to $11 billion per quarter in 2024. Most of that battery investment went to red states, including in the South's "Battery Belt," where manufacturers were drawn to inexpensive land and a nonunionized workforce. Now, however, that battery boom is teetering. In the first three months of 2025, companies canceled $6 billion in battery manufacturing — a record. EV sales have slowed...
According to the new report, the United States has almost enough battery capacity announced or under development to meet demand all the way to 2030 if EV sales continue to slump. That might sound like a good thing — but if EV sales drop further, it means companies will be left with factories they won't be able to use. At the same time, China has excess battery capacity. The country has enough manufacturing to meet the entire world's demand for batteries — and may be looking to off-load them onto other markets... And if the incentives for using U.S.-made batteries disappear, the nation's manufacturers would be left high and dry.
No more U.S. built cars for me (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
That's how many Americans felt when GM et. al. moved production to Canada so they started buying e.g. Toyotas made in e.g. Indiana instead.
You are correct that people will vote with their wallet. To me it makes sense for Canadians to buy from one of the major Canadian automobile manufacturers, and not just for tariff reasons.
Re:No more U.S. built cars for me (Score:4, Insightful)
...and not just for tariff reasons.
Definitely. The repeated demands that they give up their sovereignty are a pretty good motivator too.
Re: (Score:2)
What major Canadian automobile manufacturers are these? I don't know of any currently, other than a couple of very niche specialty companies.
Personally I'd like to see Canada reduce tariffs just a little bit on Chinese automobiles. Even 50% would probably be reasonable. Also Canada really needs to change the safety regs to allow cars that meet European safety rules (arguably stricter than ours in many cases) into Canada. Right now silly things keep them out because we've tried for so many years to keep r
Re: (Score:2)
Right now silly things keep them out
From what I read, apart from technical matters, what kept some European sellers out of North America is that they were selling so few cars it was not worth. Renault was selling 4,000 cars a year in USA when it exited North America (though trigger for the exit in this case was assassination of the CEO Georges Besse in 1986). Keeping a network of dealers and availability of parts in Canada would be costly and only worth if they can sell many cars, as we are talking about cheap cars to get going with limited m
Canadian-built cars [Re:No more U.S. built car...] (Score:3)
What major Canadian automobile manufacturers are these? I don't know of any currently, other than a couple of very niche specialty companies.
Offhand, Honda Civic, Toyota RAV4, Chrysler Pacifica, Dodge Charger, Chevy Silverado, Ford Edge.
I'm sure a google search would show more. Or Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
I'm an American, and my next car is still going to be an EV... and almost certainly one made by a non-American company.
Because American cars are sucking again, just like the old days.
Re:No more U.S. built cars for me (Score:5, Insightful)
At some point economics win over politics. I live in a rural area of Alberta and I'm very much interested in BEVs. Of course part of that is because I've made a major investment in solar, and I could easily charge up a BEV with my excess solar power for "free." Of course most people won't be in this position. My neighbor who farms drives mostly EVs now. Ideal for on-farm use as a gasoline engine putting around the farm is lucky to get 10 mpg. Weight is a big downside to EVs, at least on the farm driving through mud. If my wife commuted into town every day for work, I would totally buy one.
I find it hilarious how many people are willing to decide against something that is quite appealing and they would probably be in favor of just because a Liberal politician happens to be in favor of it. So bizarre and self-defeating.
Re: (Score:3)
Once you experience the instant torque of an EV it’s hard to go back to ICE.
Re: (Score:2)
Being a contrariant is even more ridiculous, though.
Probably not a problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Supposedly EV sales are likely to be 25% higher than last year: https://about.bnef.com/insight... [bnef.com]
Tesla, sure, is facing (self inflicted) problems, but they're no longer the only EV maker in town with any degree of respect. And of course there's now serious efforts being made to produce low cost EVs that will appeal to Americans such as the $20,000 truck that's been mentioned a few times here.
Plus... if we're looking at something that seriously affects the economy of Southern states, it doesn't matter how much culture war bullshit Trump spews, the Republicans will make sure there's support of some kind, even if it's the usual "lessening regulations" crap that doesn't really help anyone long term.
And then there's the question of whether EVs are the only audience for large batteries anyway. As someone living in Florida, I'd love a 5 day battery back-up for my house. Tesla's PowerWalls alas are too expensive for that, but more battery factories should result in the price coming down.
Re: (Score:3)
I wish I had mod points to mod your post UP since you seem to be the only rational poster so far in this thread.
The rest of the posters in this thread are either "off their meds" or they are behaving like somebody killed their goldfish.
Re: (Score:2)
while Teslas are still the most common EVs I see in the quite large metro area where i live, the competition has been growing QUICKLY in the past year.
when i moved into this area at the start of CoVID, it was easily 20-1 in Tesla's favor.
now it's more like 5-1 or worse
Re:Probably not a problem (Score:4, Interesting)
Supposedly EV sales are likely to be 25% higher than last year: https://about.bnef.com/insight [bnef.com]... [bnef.com]
That is world wide. Not sure that matters much to battery manufacturers in the United States. China is demonstrating that electric car adoption isn't really a problem when you produce affordable electric cars. Electric cars are almost all luxury models in the US. At least based on their price.
We have tax breaks for people to buy electric cars, but with depreciation at 15% to 35% in the first year for any new car, that incentive isn't really that big relative to the extra cost of buying a car new. If we focused instead on raising the cost of new ICE vehicles we would have much larger impact. But there is no money in that.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you kidding? Gm just released a $35k SUV. The tax credit brings it down to $2.5k, and dealers will sell it outright for cheaper than that.
Re: (Score:2)
The biggest thing that will hold EV adoption back will be availability of convenient charging for people that cannot, for one reason or another, charge at home over night. We need a whole lot more public chargers all over. This cost money though. A lot.
If more people had a garage for their car, then I'm sure EVs would be much more popular. Oh, and electricity in California is super expensive, to the point where my 50mpg hybrid will be better then EV until gas crosses about $6.50. So, while California probab
Re: (Score:2)
Plus... if we're looking at something that seriously affects the economy of Southern states, it doesn't matter how much culture war bullshit Trump spews, the Republicans will make sure there's support of some kind, even if it's the usual "lessening regulations" crap that doesn't really help anyone long term.
Of course, ending stuff is only good if it doesn't impact your voters. We're already seeing that in higher profile issues such as Medicaid/SNAP and immigration where R's are realizing their voters will bear the brunt of the cuts and their farmers/construction/other industries that rely on immigrant labor will suffer and jobs be lost. Nad voters, as they see the impact in their communities are saying "That's not what I thought would happen or what I want,' well you dumb fucks he told you what he would do a
Re: (Score:2)
The issue isn't demand, it's that American battery tech just isn't all that competitive. It's not as good as the Chinese stuff, especially the fairly new LFP packs they are putting out that charge fast, last forever, and are very cheap. Tariffs aren't all that effective for forcing consumers to buy inferior domestic products.
The good news is that we are getting to a point where even not so great batteries are good enough for a lot of uses, so there is a market for them. Perhaps just not the most lucrative h
Re: (Score:2)
Also, all these battery plants could be supplying hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles out there. Toyota is aggressively pushing hybrids, Honda is starting to do so, and I expect Nissan to go that way (if they survive).
Late Stage capitalism (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Late Stage capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)
Investment in batteries is literally investing in energy, same as oil or gas or wind or anything else, this shouldn't be a political fiefdom more than one group wants to make it one because it can be a divisive wedge issue.
Seriously, there is only political reasoning for conservatives to have been so against renewable energy production especially in terms of developing it as a domestic industry, in every other aspect it makes sense. It's pre craven politicking and it caused us as a nation to drop the ball on it pretty hard.
Re:Late Stage capitalism (Score:4, Insightful)
It's established interests, as usual. Oil producers, automotive manufacturers who invested heavily in combustion engines, gas producers, fossil fuel electricity plants, nuclear plants.
Battery electric vehicles and grid scale battery storage all harm their businesses, and boost their rivals.
I'm guessing they don't just create demand by building their own grid scale batteries because the grid operators, who also happen to be the fossil/nuclear operators, have some excuse as to why they can't add storage right now. Ironically Communist China has a more free market, allowing massive amounts of battery storage to be connected, while Capitalist America seems to have a captured market.
Re: (Score:2)
"Ironically Communist China has a more free market..."
Because it is no longer Communist, except for the slur.
Re: (Score:2)
Because it is no longer Communist, except for the slur.
You mean except for their name? They call themselves communists so it is hardly a slur to call them what they call themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Alright ya got me, "best kind of of correct", but in 2025 with the amount of wind and solar also going up every battery made is as good as refining some gas. "Wind and solar is too intermittent", "well lets make batteries", "that isn't actually making energy"
Ahh, This old chestnut, no, an EV will have less total emission's including manufacture over it's lifetime than an ICE vehicle for miles driven. There's offsets everywhere. This is over and done, are we gonna have this argument forever? EV's are bett
Re: (Score:2)
Ahh, This old chestnut, no, an EV will have less total emission's including manufacture over it's lifetime than an ICE vehicle for miles driven.
So what? You are comparing buying a new EV to buying a new ICE vehicle, the worst possible alternative. Not buying a new ICE vehicle will certainly prevent emissions, but also not buying an EV will prevent even more.
All buying a new EV does is add another vehicle to the fleet and its associated emissions. Its not replacing anything. Its just making a vehicle available to someone who would have had to walk, bike, use transit or skip their trip.
Almost no one who is buying an EV is junking their otherwise se
Re: (Score:2)
Despite the reputation of Toyota, cars do not last forever, how many vehicles 20+ years old are on the road? The average car age from manufacture to scrap in the US is like 13 years.
As long as the electric industry is trying to grow its market by investing in greenwashing electric products.
So we've already abandoned the idea that EV's add more emissions than ICE cars? Good, we are getting somewhere. You can call it greenwashing all you want but that is a fact that is real.
Then maybe the environmental movement can stop promoting more consumption as a solution to climate change and start advocating for things that actually reduce emissions.
OK, so this have zero to do with the facts about EV's and this more of a shoulder chip for environmentalists. Everything is culture war.
Re: (Score:2)
Despite the reputation of Toyota, cars do not last forever, how many vehicles 20+ years old are on the road? The average car age from manufacture to scrap in the US is like 13 years.
Completely irrelevant. Existing ICE cars will be driven the same number of miles and produce the same emissions before they are scrapped whether someone buys an EV or not.
Re: (Score:2)
EV's will continue to outsell PHEVs (as they currently already are) as time goes on for the simple fact they will be cheaper to make and fill the needs for most drivers most of the time. PHEVs will continue to exist to fill the niche they are good at.
Re: (Score:2)
EV's will continue to outsell PHEVs (as they currently already are) as time goes on for the simple fact they will be cheaper to make and fill the needs for most drivers most of the time. PHEVs will continue to exist to fill the niche they are good at.
That claim aged like milk. Have you seen this:
https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
A comment about synthetic fuels? What about it? Do we have cheap, scalable synthetic fuel?
Re: (Score:2)
You know I can admit maybe I was wrong and that right now PHEV are outselling BEV but I will stand on ground that in 5 years that will be reversed. PHEV will still be more expensive to manufacture, people are buying more efficient vehicles and the P in PHEV means more chargers installed which means that persons next car is more than likely a BEV. This is still a bit of "things are this way today so they will be this way forever"
Re: (Score:2)
No one cares what nonsensical pet peeves a dishonest concern troll like yourself has.
Fool and his money soon parted (Score:2)
The cost is bigger than the EV industry (Score:3, Insightful)
If investors think the next White House Party Change (WHPC)[TM) MAY make their investment worthless, they will be much less likely to invest unless they can get paid back before the next Presidential election.
Make me an offer (Score:3)
I'd like to buy about 60KWh of batteries soon.
Not for a car, but for a home.
Many folks are likely in the same boat, so why not address a huge market demand?
"Solar is great but batteries are too expensive" is something you'll hear all day long.
Bonus: It's cheaper to ship from North Carolina than from China.
Re: (Score:2)
The batteries you would make for a car may not be appropriate for your home and vice versa. Depending on how much space you have for batteries, you might prefer sodium batteries for longer life and lower cost.
Re:Make me an offer (Score:5, Informative)
Currently, LiFePO4 battery technology works well enough and for long enough for home storage. And since it's the same technology that EVs use, these plants certainly can target that market.
Re: (Score:2)
Okay but if you had something with longer life and lower cost available on the market, would you keep buying LiFePO4 batteries?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Bonus: It's cheaper to ship from North Carolina than from China.
But is the total cost cheaper? I have a neighbor who sells and installs doors. He custom makes wooden ones but the big decorative iron ones are cheaper to fabricate and ship from China than source locally; teh downside is lead time since he needs to fill a container before shipping. He loaclly sources teh glass so he can replace a broken panel for the customer long after the door is installed.
Re: Make me an offer (Score:2)
Build affordable EVs (Score:4, Insightful)
The cost of a typical EV is way too expensive (beyond stupid actually). Years ago we were told EVs would cost less because of fewer moving parts and simpler manufacturing techniques. The opposite has panned out. Now we have cell phones on wheels with so much DRM, spying, "self driving" BS, anti-repair parts pairing, and sensors causing even the slightest fender bender to cost thousands of dollars. Why not a simple car without all of this (yes knobs instead of a big stupid iPad) that is affordable? Something like an electrified Pontiac Vibe (a Toyota Matrix in disguise) would be an ideal electric car. The average person doesn't want ludicrous speed, 600HP, or a 350 mile range for a typical daily driver. I would use an electric if I could for 90% of my daily around town and back and forth to work driving. If I need to go on a long distance trip then my ICE will do. Gradually introduce the EV until the infrastructure for charging them catches up. There is nothing wrong with ICE and EV coexisting until the changeover has been completed. But at today's EV prices that isn't an option for a vast majority of people. Right to repair also needs to be passed at a federal level to stop the manufacturer fuckery too, but that's another topic.
Re: (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with ICE and EV coexisting until the changeover has been completed.
You are assuming that people have enough money to own two fairly new vehicles.
Re:Build affordable EVs (Score:4, Interesting)
Most people already have an ICE. Adding an EV to the stable is extremely cost prohibitive if you wish to keep the current ICE. An affordable EV for daily driving is needed to allow people to experience the benefits the EV offers. Something they can charge overnight on a 110VAC or 220VAC outlet they already have to top the battery off. You know, a sane EV, 0 to 60 in 8 to 10 seconds, 125HP to 150HP, none of the self driving BS beyond cruise control and separation. KNOBS and DIALS. You know, a true daily driver, not a rented (no, you don't truly own it, read the TOS) mother ship connected spying cell phone on wheels that's constantly allowing the manufacturer to suck you dry.
Re: (Score:2)
This site is filled with disingenuous and frankly stupid boomers and Gen X like yourself.
Re: (Score:3)
A vast majority of people live out in the boonies (like me in northern Ohio) and already have two (or more) ICE vehicles. Lots of people want, and need, two vehicles at their disposal. I can see those living in cities only having the room for one car. Wouldn't it be nice to have some affordable sane EVs to choose from?
Re: (Score:2)
"There will never be an EV as affordable" - not as long as people have this attitude. Speak up, vote with your wallet and don't buy the currently available nightmares. Let the manufacturers know what you expect and not accept what they are offering. We allow these companies to push their crap on us because we don't speak up, shrug our shoulders, and accept the abuse. Consumers have forgotten that they hold the power. Companies are holding their breath hoping we don't regain that knowledge.
Re: (Score:2)
You are assuming that people have enough money to own two fairly new vehicles.
Or even WANT two vehicles. Or have a place to PARK two vehicles.
I have an EV, my wife has a ICE car. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to have two cars, one for each of us.
Are slashdotters really too poor to have two cars in the family? Most of the people I know have two cars.
Re: (Score:2)
two cars [Re:Build affordable EVs] (Score:2)
But if you do the ICE/EV combination than you need two new cars
No, you don't.
When I got my EV, I was thinking that we'd use my car for running around town-- 90% of all driving in the US is only a few miles from home-- and when we took long road trips we'd use her Prius. But once we got used to it, we liked the EV even for long trips. The requirement to stop and recharge every four hours or so was a good chance to get out and hit the bathroom, stretch our legs, eat lunch, etc.
But, yeah, if you really need to do frequent long road trips on a schedule where fifteen minu
Re: (Score:2)
There is nothing wrong with ICE and EV coexisting until the changeover has been completed.
I agree. Many households in the USA have more than one vehicle, and the different drivers in that household are likely to have different driving needs. As an example my brother drives a large truck as he often moves a lot of tools and materials, and has a fairly regular need to pull a trailer. His wife mostly just drives to and from work a short distance from home and so drives a BEV.
For those that might not need multiple vehicles but would like the advantages of driving on all electric power for short t
Re: (Score:2)
The problem with your comment is that EVs have become more economical in total cost of ownership than ICE for the past 1.5 years. In other words, if you buy an ICE car or hybrid, you just made he wrong economic decision. This assumes you buy a new entry level Model 3 or equivalent competitor.
Re: (Score:2)
Now we have cell phones on wheels with so much DRM, spying, "self driving" BS, anti-repair parts pairing, and sensors causing even the slightest fender bender to cost thousands of dollars.
That's the worst part. All that data collection and lockout, and they charge more for that. They don't even try to argue that this subsidizes the cost of the car... they've got the nerve to gouge you.
I'm glad my 11-year-old car is still in perfect shape. I'd hate to have to buy anything new right now.
Re: (Score:2)
A 2025 Chevy equinox EV with 10 miles on it costs $23500 at a dealership.
Re: Build affordable EVs (Score:2)
Your math is off with the 120V charging. Most level 1 chargers top at 12 amps for safety reasons. My Volt gen1 defaults to 8 amps and that has to be reset to 12 each time. But I can count on one hand the number of times I used L1.
Then there are significant charging losses with level 1 compared to level 2 or DC. 20 to 25% losses are typical.
Finally, the miles/kWh vary greatly based on a number of factors, but 3.5 is a pretty good average for me in 13 years of driving PHEV and EV.
30 miles of charge would be m
The WaPo going all MAGAt (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't read the lies (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Just like an ever increasing amount of "news" in the US, there's some narrative scrambling for clicks rather than facts. US news is starting to push beyond political driven narratives straight into "lying because it's more profitable and we need marketshare".
Directly blame Google for that situation. They're the one who have been aggressively pushing the ad-revenue model. Back before Google, media was supported by a mixture of advertising and subscription. We even had a few media sources that were truly independent and both government-backed, and privately supported by individual subscriptions and contributions. Google poisoned the well, and we are all paying the price.
Re: (Score:2)
US news is starting to push beyond political driven narratives straight into "lying because it's more profitable and we need marketshare".
We have been there for a while. Profit was always the motive. What has really changed is that the content is no longer important. Its only the quality of the clickbait headline. The content of the story doesn't even have to be very closely related.
Nuclear is better than storage (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not sure I'd want a nuclear reactor in my car, even if there was one small enough and cheap enough.
You seem to be confusing the source of electricity with the need to store it, or perhaps you are proposing that EV's are connected to the grid like trams and electric trains ?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
nuclear waste
Used fuel (aka nuclear waste from a nuclear power plant) is not a real problem. It just isn't. You can keep fearmongering but what we are currently doing(cool in water for 10 years followed by cask storage) is working extremely well.
Used fuel has never killed a single human being.
There isn't a lot of it. We could put all of it a building the size of a walmart.
It is a solid metal meaning it can never leak.
It decays exponentially meaning all of those dangerous for thousands of years claims are lies. For some
US is failing/falling to the back of the pack (Score:2)
EV sales are stagnant or falling in the US while they are rapidly rising in the rest of the world.
Main factors are the BBB eliminating all tax incentives and even adding a new EV tax. Of course, there is the usual FUD about EVs which the ignorant seem to fall for easily.
Another sign that the US is falling behind. Tariffs, economic isolationism, and general Idiocracy.
We are already last (of "developed" countries) in health and education. We're now headed to be last in everything...
Re: (Score:2)
... and even adding a new EV tax.
If EVs are getting taxed then consider that a good thing. Doesn't the philosophy on the economy go something like... If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.
EVs have moved beyond the "subsidize it" stage as it has kept moving. I don't know how long people expected EVs to be subsidized. If they got what they wanted, every vehicle is electric, then at some point the government is simply subsidizing car ownership. If there is a parallel goal of convincing m
Re: (Score:2)
We still have massive subsidies for fossil fuels. Will they ever move beyond the subsidized stage?
The US bullies other nations. It is not bullied by others.
The US produces excess food and exports a lot of the excess.
It doesn't have the right climate to produce things like cocoa, coffee, bananas but it can get these through the miracle of trade.
Re: (Score:2)
We still have massive subsidies for fossil fuels. Will they ever move beyond the subsidized stage?
The subsidies are "massive"? On a pure dollar amount that can be true but on a per BTU/joule/whatever basis there's clearly more subsidies for renewable energy.
I've seen people do the math on the "massive" subsidies and to make it look like more than was going to renewable energy they had to get into some "creative" accounting.
Just because the government is buying a lot of fossil fuels does not make that a subsidy. Then there's going to be some protections on fossil fuel production because the military ne
Re: (Score:2)
Renewable energy subsides 2024 were a record $32 billion and generated about 3% of total energy.
Fossil fuel subsidies were $873 billion so about proportional.
However, most (more than half) of the fossil fuel energy is wasted due to inefficiency so if you take that into account fossil fuel receives much more subsidy.
As far a war goes, we just started another fossil fuel war in the Middle East. The last one cost $3 trillion.
Jevons Paradox (Score:2)
Business model was just grifting off the taxpayer (Score:2)
Whilst it is rational in the short term to build something in response to subsidies, making your profitability reliant on those subsidies is always going to be vulnerable to politics. A subsidy should encourage a new industry to invest but should not be an ongoing form of support.
I doubt this investment will be stranded. (Score:2)
The factories that produce batteries for EVs can certainly find other uses for the batteries they produce, I have doubts this will be a stranded investment.
The most obvious market for these batteries will be whole-house, and grid connected, batteries to help ride out interruptions in grid power. It seems whenever I make a mention of power outages in the USA there's going to be someone out of Europe that will make a comment on how bad the grid in the USA must be that there's people worried about a power out
EV Batteries can be used ouside cars (Score:2)
The article might need to mention that.
Why not see about new markets? (Score:2)
Batteries are always useful. Why not get with a car maker and make a serial hybrid, similar to a BMW i3 with a range extender or a Chevy Volt? Done right, the battery bank doesn't have to be huge, as the generator could be able to handle the output of the motor at the wheels [1]. This is a way to have a very simple engine, and a relatively simple drivetrain with less need of transmissions, and other points of failure that wear out.
Another place is a charger/inverter in a home. This could make life a lot
Link from WaPo doesnt mention EV incentives (Score:2)
I find it odd that an anonymous person is proclaiming that EVs are not in demand when there isnt evidence of that. Then they cite the Washington Post as a source for cutting EV incentives... but the article doesnt mention EVs at all.
is it because they keep catching fire? (Score:2)
is it because they keep catching fire?
Not just the plants, but the cars with the batteries manufactured there?
Don't have the stats... but it's fairly common these days to read/watch a report locally about an EV burning... a parking garage destroyed/parking lot/fairy destroyed on the national news... and then the occasional battery manufacturing plant catching fire... I'm all for EV's, but there is zero chance I'm putting one in the garage.
I know ICE vehicles catch fire too... but the perception is that EV
Re: (Score:3)
BYD have been working on solid state batteries for years, which are apparently much safer, and also have about double the energy density (1200 mi range), as well as fast charging - add 900 mi of range in 12 min.
They are now ready to put them into cars, and start ramping up the volume over next few years.
https://electrek.co/2025/06/20... [electrek.co]
Oh please (Score:2)
"The rug is being pulled out from under these manufacturers," said Hannah Pitt, a director in Rhodium's energy and climate practice...
Oh please. Only the most stupid of manufacturers would have committed capital on the assumption that subsidies intended to jumpstart the industry would go on forever.
Re: (Score:2)
Hannah was concerned about the subsidies going to her brother, Bottomless.
crying (Score:2)
Oh, oh, I'm crying for those companies.
Re: Republicans (Score:5, Informative)
Because they're part of the far left woke climate conspiracy. Or something.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Republicans (Score:4, Insightful)
He didn't have a jet gifted to him from the Qatari royal family either.
Re: Republicans (Score:2)
he walked over water and launched himself into the sky, clearly he must have had access to advanced technology like an electric jetpack
Re: (Score:2)
Gravity is a human construct only invented by Sir Isaac Newton in the 17th century!
If you've ever seen the Christian allegory, The Matrix, Neo isn't bound by the conventional laws of nature.
Re:Republicans (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do they hate EVs so much?
Because the Democrats like EVs. The Republican Party stands for one thing, and one thing alone, these days: to oppose anything and everything that the Democrats like. The MAGAt crowd takes this to its ultimate consequences: the only thing that matters to them is that the liberals suffer, even if in order to achieve that the MAGAts themselves must suffer.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't remember Pelosi going on live TV announcing that her sole goal in the next 4 years is to block anything the republican try to pass though.
Re:Republicans (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Because their donors own all the dino juice and they want to sell as much of it as they can before China achieves energy independence and the rest of the world rides their coat tails.
Re: (Score:3)
They totally suck for driving from bumfuck nowhere to the nearest Costco, for example.
Re: Republicans (Score:2)
Re:mostly not the vehicle (Score:4, Insightful)
It's that IC cars are scheduled to be banned within the next few years. Lots of people know that EVs don't work for their own situation, like, the person lives in an apartment and has no easy way to charge.
That's why most forward-looking states have passed laws requiring new apartments to have adequate charging spaces.
Insurance rates have gone waaaay up in no small part due to liabiity claims from EVs. EVs are pretty much disposable.
Not really. EVs are actually slightly less likely to be totaled in a wreck [autobodynews.com] than ICE cars, and because they're more likely to have advanced driving assistance features, they're also less likely to get in a wreck in the first place, assuming all else is equal, ignoring minor parking lot mishaps, which are largely vehicle-agnostic.
Repairs can be more expensive, however, and that, coupled with the insurance companies' perception that EV drivers can afford more, is why insurance rates are going up.
EVs are also very heavy which causes more damage to the other car in the collision.
Not significantly. The difference between getting hit by a 4,000 pound Model 3 and a 3,500 pound Camry is negligible. Velocity has a far greater impact, to such a degree that getting hit by a Model 3 at 35 MPH would cause roughly the same damage as the Camry at 38 MPH. The weight difference is entirely lost in the noise.
The tax incentives are freaking obnoxious. Aside from the fact that these are large sums of money and governments could use them for repairing roads etc. (and by the way, these heavy EVs do more damage to roads which they are not paying for with gas taxes),
Also not true. EVs don't weigh enough to have a meaningful impact on roads. A Model 3 with a single driver weighs as much as a Camry with three or four extra passengers. Anything below about 6,000 pounds isn't worth worrying about.
the incentives are set up in really cockamamie ways. Like you can't get a Toyota EV with the incentive because it's not made in the USA. Or if you have income over a certain amount. Blah blah.
Agreed. The incentives are set up in such a way that they're not so useful in practice, because the people who can afford EVs can't get the credits, and the people who can get the credits can't afford the cars, with or without the credits. The income limits should be abolished. Either you're trying to promote EVs or you aren't, and if you really want to promote EV sales to lower-income people, the way you do that is by creating a thriving used car market as all the wealthy people replace their cars, aided by those tax credits.
EVs are well established and can be sold for less than gas cars, we don't need incentives at all anymore.
They actually can't. The costs to build them are higher, and the margins are lower. Tesla makes about $8.5k per car at current prices, which means the manufacturing cost starts at about $34,000, which is more than the retail cost of a Camry.
Re: (Score:2)
They actually can't. The costs to build them are higher, and the margins are lower. Tesla makes about $8.5k per car at current prices, which means the manufacturing cost starts at about $34,000, which is more than the retail cost of a Camry.
Tesla needs to get their act together if they hope to stay relevant. China makes EV's with a retail cost of less than a gas car, why can't we?
Because U.S. automakers' workers don't live in dormitories and work 50-hour weeks for $3 an hour.
Oh, you mean less than a Chinese gas car? Because the Chinese government massively subsidized their R&D and manufacturing costs.
Re: (Score:2)
We had the same effect when the incandescent light bulbs were replaced first by fluorescent lamps and now by LED bulbs. For some time, people were buying the l
Re: (Score:2)
There still would be hate for EVs. It's easy. If buying an EV is virtue signalling, you find a large part of the population feeling forced to buy an EV too, and so they will use every argument they can come up with why they won't do so. In fact, buying an ICEV becomes some kind of anti-establishment thing, and people will buy them just to be rebels.
Of course, that's human nature. So stop making the purchase of an EV be a political statement. I'm seeing a shift in adverts for BEVs and PHEVs, they aren't talking much at all about the cleaner air and lower CO2 emissions any more. What I'm seeing is a mention of convenience, luxury, cost savings, safety, or the typical stuff that sold cars before CO2 emissions were a thing.
People are still going to buy expensive cars to show off, and for some people that means buying electric.
We had the same effect when the incandescent light bulbs were replaced first by fluorescent lamps and now by LED bulbs. For some time, people were buying the last stocks of incandescent light bulbs at premium prices, and stories were circulating how LED lamps emit those evil 5G radiation and similar. Now, 15 years later, no one seems to remember.
I remember, except the par
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt the EVs will takeover, at least not in the way you are implying. I expect there to be plenty of PHEVs to keep the ICEV fans happy enough.
We have Norway and now Sweden as example how EVs take over. And now, even Germany slowly moves after some hickup into the EV direction, 18.8 percent of all car sales being BEVs in 2025 so far. Austria being on the same level. In the whole E.U., BEVs are growing faster (plus 23.7% compared with the previous year for a total of 15.5%) than hybrids (plus 20% compared with the previous year for a total of 43.1%) in the first quarter of 2025.
The numbers are somewhat skewed because for instance in Germany and A
Re: (Score:2)
We have Norway and now Sweden as example how EVs take over.
Nobody much cares about EV sales in Norway and Sweden. First off the combined population of those two nations is less than that of the state of New York. Second, those nations are effectively islands, there's nobody driving all that far so the typical concern on "range anxiety" won't apply. I know people can take a long drive in these long narrow nations but they'd be rare, and along well traveled routes so it is trivial to put in EV chargers to keep EV drivers happy, that hardly translates to how Americ
Re: (Score:2)