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In China, Coins and Banknotes Have All But Disappeared (lemonde.fr) 180

Posted by msmash from the all-things-digital dept.
China's transition to digital payments has reached the point where physical cash has nearly vanished from daily commerce, with WeChat and Alipay now handling transactions from supermarkets to public transportation across the world's second-largest economy. Many businesses no longer maintain traditional cash registers and instead scan QR codes presented by customers, while numerous taxis refuse cash payments entirely.

The widespread adoption has given tech giants Tencent and Alibaba immense power over routine financial transactions, prompting China's central bank to develop a competing digital yuan currency.
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In China, Coins and Banknotes Have All But Disappeared More

In China, Coins and Banknotes Have All But Disappeared

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  • Global Phenomenon (Score:3)

    by nealric ( 3647765 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:16PM (#65486574)

    Even in the U.S. and Europe, we are seeing more and more establishments that don't take cash. Money as physical slips of paper or chunks of metal will probably be viewed as quaint in 50 years.

    • I still see cash and coin, but I haven't seen an actual silver coin in the wild for at least thirty years now.

      • Well, of course not. The silver content of an actually silver coin would be worth dozens of times the coin's face value. The U.S. Mint will sell you five real silver quarters, minted for 2025. It'll only cost you $95. They are legal tender for 25 cents each, but people aren't going to be handing those out in change.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )

        I still see cash and coin, but I haven't seen an actual silver coin in the wild for at least thirty years now.

        I blame our grandfathers who routinely scanned for silver and tossed them into a jar at home. :-)

    • Yeah I am curious about that. What percent of retail and fast food customers are using cash, credit card, and phone pay?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by drnb ( 2434720 )

        Yeah I am curious about that. What percent of retail and fast food customers are using cash, credit card, and phone pay?

        Two years ago my neighborhood gas station lost its internet connection. I dug the "emergency $20s" out of my wallet to prepay the pump. I would do the same at a favorite food truck or corner restaurant. Rather than go somewhere else. Did I mention I am old? Or does having a few emergency $20s in my wallet already indicate that? :-) FWIW it's the only cash in my wallet.

        • That's actually a really good idea. I tend to get cash for very specific purchases (gasoline, swap meet) but I never really thought to keep "backup cash" for an emergency in my wallet that only gets spent when the Internet is down. Thanks for posting that tidbit.

    • So I guess for illicit transactions we don't want the government to watch, we resort to barter?

      • I can recall reading about how drug dealers would use laundry detergent than cash for payment.

        I don't recall all the logic behind laundry detergent but it had something to do with keeping the police from confiscating what they got in payment for drugs. How much is a bottle of detergent worth? Anywhere from $5 to $25 depending on the size? Maybe $40 for the really big bottles? There's nothing illegal about having laundry detergent, and once they made their sales on drugs they can turn those bottles of de

        • Even better, you can likely return an unopened container to a local grocery store for cash. Depends on the place, but some are pretty liberal about taking returns.

        • There's nothing illegal about having laundry detergent,

          There's nothing illegal in having cash either, or diamonds. I think if the police notice you own too many valuables of any nature (even laundry detergent), they have means to have it considered the product of the illegal business and take it away.

    • In Sweden you can pay almost everywhere with plastic or Swish. Cash is more or less only for beggars, but since nobody has cash anymore the beggars ate gone.

      • How do minors (children and teens not yet old enough for a bank account in their own name) pay for things in Sweden?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

          Might have some cash for the youngest to buy a candy bar, but as soon as they get in the teens I think they are running Swish or even get their own debit card that the parents controls.

          Sweden changed coins a few years ago, so many vending machines changed to card only.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by drnb ( 2434720 )

          How do minors (children and teens not yet old enough for a bank account in their own name) pay for things in Sweden?

          Like in the USA? The parents buy a prepaid VISA debit card and put cash into the account as necessary.

        • Years ago I worked at a gift vards/loyalty cards SaaS provider. Two unusual clients were a school that had gone cashless and a domestic cleaning franchise.
          Someone transfers some money to the platform and then unbanked people make redemptions at different points of sale.

    • Even in the U.S. and Europe, we are seeing more and more establishments that don't take cash.

      YMMV. In California I just got a notice from the city that if you have a brick and mortar with public access you have to accept cash. To be fair, this was motivated by people seeking outright necessities: food, drink, gas.

      Money as physical slips of paper or chunks of metal will probably be viewed as quaint in 50 years.

      50 years??? Hell, I'm old and the $100 (5x $20) emergency cash in my wallet has been untouched for two years (gas station lost internet, gave them $40 to prepay the pump). Coins went into supermarket coin counter 10 years ago. Have to keep the pocket clean so the phone's screen doesn't get

  • Good (Score:2, Insightful)

    by backslashdot ( 95548 )

    I don't use cash either. Haven't in years -- it's easier to just tap my phone .. so I don't recall using cash since the before the pandemic, outside of maybe on some vacations. Actually, not even sure about that.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Viol8 ( 599362 )

      Someone will have to explain the point of apple pay and whatever the google equivalent is. You spend all the time setting it up just to duplicate the functionality of the contactless bank card you already had. Ummmm... why?? Just use the bank card! Not only frankly is it easier to use a card than faff around getting a phones NFC and/or a QR code on the screen to work with a reader, but it makes your phone a horrendous single point of failure if you lose it.

      • Re:Good (Score:5, Informative)

        by ArchieBunker ( 132337 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:04PM (#65486762)

        Apple Pay doesn't share your card details.

        • If all it took was grabbing card details from a contactless card to go on a spending spree the concept would have been stillborn.

      • 1. The ApplePay system is more secure because you have to initiate the payment. Nobody can just walk up and press a payment terminal up to your card.
        2. Additionally, the ApplePay system uses a rotating number in the background, so your real CC number is actually used (from what I understand)
        3. In my own personal experience, the tap-to-pay system on my card is much less reliable than my phone or watch. I don't know why or how; it used to be better, but then I got a new card and now it's terrible.

        I use my car

        • That should say, "...so your real CC number is NEVER actually used"

        • I don't understand QR codes on smartphones, but apparently they're popular in other countries because they can be used by even extremely cheap dumbphones.

          It's not about cheap phones, it's more a cultural thing. I have no idea of a single physical store where Apple Pay is supported. I just checked the websites of the major store chains, it's not supported. But every single small shop will support the QR code thing, and people with expensive smartphones will use that as well. Or people just use the app of their bank which supports NFC.

          • I have no idea of a single physical store where Apple Pay is supported.

            Now that I think about it, I can imagine the Apple shops probably support Apple Pay.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        You can make much larger purchases with Apple Pay than with contactless.I bought my wife some jewellery with Apple Pay, and it worked just fine. With a card, I’d have had to revert to chip-and-pin which is a pain and less secure.

      • "Just use the bank card! "

        The bank card doesn't scan your face and cannot be disabled from home when lost or stolen.

        • cannot be disabled from home when lost or stolen.

          Of course it can. From the app or website of your bank.

      • Someone will have to explain the point of apple pay and whatever the google equivalent is. You spend all the time setting it up just to duplicate the functionality of the contactless bank card you already had. Ummmm... why??

        Once upon a time banks offered temporary credit card numbers on their websites. Login, perhaps specify the parameters of use, here's an alias number for your real card. They were awesome online. Not only did they not expose your real number, but they bonded to the first user. So if some company got hacked the numbers wouldn't work elsewhere. You could have regular payments with limits to avoid surprises. Why is the HOA trying to charge $1,000 rather than $300?

        Today Apple Pay can fulfill this role. And as

      • I use my phone, or my watch. I never have to get it from my wallet. It's vastly easier to use NFC. Literally tap my wrist against it, neat dinging noise, done.

        I don't know what shit-for-brains moderated you insightful, but you're not.
        The very fact that NFC payment methods are easier is exactly what is driving them.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Viol8 ( 599362 )

          "The very fact that NFC payment methods are easier "

          How do you think a contactless bank card works you dribbling mouth breather.

    • Good to know if your phone is lost/stolen/damaged you are shit out of luck.

      • Isn't that the same as losing a wallet? I do have physical credit cards, that I don't carry around. Let's say I were to lose my phone, I would buy a new one and restore everything to it.

      • Good to know if your phone is lost/stolen/damaged you are shit out of luck.

        That's why old farts carry a few emergency 20s. So they can get enough burritos and gasoline to get home in such an emergency. :-)

      • I can use my phone or my watch. Only have 1 wallet.
        Good thing it can't be lost/stolen/damaged.

        What the fuck struck you as intelligent about the comment you made?

      • So like losing your wallet only not as bad since you still have your ID card and public transport card?

  • Cut off and under the flouroscope (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hwstar ( 35834 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:28PM (#65486624)

    1. What do you do when your card no longer works to buy groceries because you pissed off someone high up in the government?

    2. What do you do when you get a flooded inbox/mailbox full of offers from sellers purchasing your purchase habits and pimping you their wares since the data brokers know exactly what what type of person you are? [And you have no way to opt-out]

    I'm sorry, but good old cash insulates you from these issues.

    • Re:Cut off and under the flouroscope (Score:5, Insightful)

      by VertosCay ( 7266594 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:41PM (#65486688)

      I'm sorry, but good old cash insulates you from these issues.

      You realize that you are effectively preaching against God to the choir, right? We have seemingly entire generations of people who have had pocket surveillance devices in their hand since childhood. They mistake addiction for convenience and the Tech industry loves them for it.

      • You ignore your own generation. Those who didn't grow up with trackers in their pockets none the less grew up with email inboxes full of spam and advertisements and guess what happened... nothing. The world has gone to absolute shit, there's few things I could care less about right now than some advertising fuck send me a promotional email because they know I bought milk and a dildo last week.

    • 1) Cash doesn't really help you unless you keep massive hordes of physical cash just in case the government is out to get you. If the money is in your checking/savings account, an authoritarian government can shut that down just the same as a credit card.

      2) Even if you only pay cash for normal goods, they will find you. If they don't find you, you'll still get plenty of general purpose spam.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by shilly ( 142940 )

      If you use Apple Pay, you don’t suffer from these issues, because transactions are anonymous and private.

    • 1. What do you do when your card no longer works to buy groceries because you pissed off someone high up in the government?

      Presumably do what desperate people do, and go on a murderous rampage against the government with the problem solving itself. Seriously the government can fuck you up in countless ways, pretending that cash vs card is some issue is hilarious. If you piss of someone in the government to that extent, your line of credit is the least of your worries.

      2. What do you do when you get a flooded inbox/mailbox full of offers from sellers

      Nothing, because I live in a place with data protection laws, and I am a man of the 90s and have seen my inbox flooded with spam of all sorts, and it has had no ef

    • 1. What do you do when your card no longer works to buy groceries because you pissed off someone high up in the government?

      Depends on local laws I guess but by my place even when you are prohibited by court of using banks (because of repeated abuses), you still can get a basic bank service with a restricted payment card. Or you can like everyone get a card that does not need an account, like Revolut in UK or Nickel in France.

      2. What do you do when you get a flooded inbox/mailbox full of [...] [And you have no way to opt-out]

      Some places have "no spam" opt-out stickers. I never used one, and honestly it's not a problem anymore. It's expensive to print and distribute paper and the problem already vanished on its own.

      The email inb

  • Seems that the overseas Chinese community knows something.

  • A recent experience (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jeremi ( 14640 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:35PM (#65486660) Homepage

    Scene: Lunchtime at the Central Market, a trendy/tourist-trappy food-court/market area in downtown Los Angeles. Waiting in line to buy a gourmet sandwich from the sandwich vendor.

    In front of the counter: lots of hungry customers. Behind the counter, three bemused-looking sandwich-makers standing idle, because the order-taker at the register is holding a cell-phone to one ear, conversing furiously with the tech support line of the company that provides their cashless ordering system, while at the same time waving off customers because he can't accept their cash and his order-taking tablet's server is down so he can't accept their credit cards either.

    My takeaway is that cashless transactions are fine, right up until the moment they suddenly stop working for whatever reason, and at that point everyone involved will either fall back to cash as a work-around, or wish that they could.

    • Re:A recent experience (Score:5, Insightful)

      by butlerm ( 3112 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:49PM (#65486712)

      Credit and debit cards are great until there is a power outage, a natural disaster, a war, or a (local and hopefully temporary) collapse of the Internet. Then people just stare at each other and can't even buy gasoline or groceries if they do not have any emergency cash on hand. Hey buddy can you spare a twenty? I need to get to work or my grandmother needs to get to the hospital in the next town over, etc. It would turn panhandling into an art form, not that it isn't one already. And perish the thought that one of those conditions prevails for *months* in which case everyone in the area affected might really be in trouble, especially when the ATMs (which may not work either) and local bank branches (which may not be able to tell what your balance is) run out of cash.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        Most businesses can't operate if the registers are down either, cashless or not.

        Most inventory systems are computerized, and registers are linked with the inventory system so additional can be ordered. At the same time, the registers track the payment method so it can keep tabs on how much cash is in the register.

        Thus, if the backend server goes down, the register goes down, and cash may not be accepted.

        Now, a small business might be able to go back to pen and paper recording transactions, but that can be t

        • Re:A recent experience (Score:4, Insightful)

          by BeaverCleaver ( 673164 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @08:24PM (#65487566)

          Now, a small business might be able to go back to pen and paper recording transactions, but that can be too hard - I've seen people break out the calculator just to calculate change, so basic math skills are lacking to the point I don't think many could work without a calculator.

          It's hard, it's inefficient, and when the power/network comes back it's a lot of hassle to reconcile the books. But compare this to another business that just throws their hands in the air and shuts down if there's a network outage. Which business is more likely to survive?

    • My takeaway is that cashless transactions are fine, right up until the moment they suddenly stop working for whatever reason

      This. Spain got a lesson in this just a couple months ago with its massive power outage. Add in internet and payment processors and you have 3 potential points of failure. As much as I prefer paying by card, maintaining the option to pay cash is smart.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shilly ( 142940 )

        Paying cash if there’s a power outage isn’t going to work in any store larger than a mom-and-pop anyway, because cash registers are powered and linked to POS systems that track transactions.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by znrt ( 2424692 )

        it was a clusterfuck but ended up being a fun day, not without valuable lessons indeed: people find a way around, pretty quickly, and humanity sometimes surprises you. if you have ever driven around in the dense and hostile jungle of barcelona's traffic you'll know what a depressing and unnerving experience it is. however without traffic lights and with the police completely overwhelmed (and virtually absent) the pure chaos magically worked out. people just did that, there was no need for police. everyone w

      • Spain got a lesson in this just a couple months ago with its massive power outage.

        I don't think it lead to any lesson. Not more than the occasional Microsoft outages lead people to switch to Linux. The outage in Spain lead people to think "we ought to improve our electricity network (let's hope the government does it)", but not "we should use cash".

        The big shops had to close anyway because no electricity means immediate evacuation. If only internet fails, the registries still can't connect to external databases (or the tax authorities, which big shops must).
        Small shops, even those using

    • Scene: a queue of customers in a shop. Customer at the head of the queue with a total of $19.10, hands the cashier a $20 note to pay. There is no till just an electronic card reader and a cash drawer.

      A frown appears on the cashier's face as the sudden realization that skills learned in their "advanced" maths class will now be called on after years of neglect. They reach for the calculator only to remember that the batteries died this morning and nobody has had a chance to replace them. Concentrating hard

      • With a flash of relief the cashier opens the cash draw only to be confronted with 25, 10 and 5 cent coins and a new seemingly impossible puzzle of how to choose the right coins to make up 90 cents....

        While an amusing tale I'd expect someone so inexperienced in making change would simply ignore the quarters and nickles, focusing only on the dimes and pennies to make things simple on the math, then hand out nine dimes to make 90 cents in change. Who would complain about that? It can be explained trivially as running out of quarters.

    • My takeaway is that cashless transactions are fine, right up until the moment they suddenly stop working for whatever reason, and at that point everyone involved will either fall back to cash as a work-around, or wish that they could.

      No business has 100% uptime. Today it's cashless systems, tomorrow it's a power outage preventing you opening your register. Close up shop and open again tomorrow. If you can't survive the day without business then you were going to go bankrupt shortly anyway, and your customers will live without a sandwich.

      • No business has 100% uptime. Today it's cashless systems, tomorrow it's a power outage preventing you opening your register. Close up shop and open again tomorrow. If you can't survive the day without business then you were going to go bankrupt shortly anyway, and your customers will live without a sandwich.

        Why would I try to buy a sandwich from the closed shop ever again? I would go to the same shop that was open today, and sold me a sandwich without any hassle.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      This happened with others like Apple stores.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ledow ( 319597 )

      Dumbass business practices have nothing to do with cashless societies.

      A business that doesn't have a cheap iZettle/Square/whatever reader under the counter, a backup SIM on a different network, or similar is just asking to lose business. It's like having a cash register that doesn't open... well... find another way to take people's money rather than standing there looking gormless.

      And things like those readers are dirt-cheap and charge about 2%. I'd rather be taking 98% of my customer's money than nothing

  • How you supposed to make it rain? Venmo a lap dance?

  • https://www.reddit.com/r/copyp... [reddit.com]

    The GoFundMe cancellation of the truckers' money should make you all aware of how a cashless society will work. The government gets mad at you and they wipe out your money. The end. Think they can't get mad at you, you're a good citizen? Welcome to the social credit system.

    In a cashless society your money is yours only as long as the banks and government allow it.

    • Boo hoo, people funded criminals and paid the price. You weren't persecuted for being conservative. You were persecute for being an asshole.

      Your savings and wealth don't exist until you withdraw it in physical form. Until then it's some bits in a database. Society is already mostly cashless. Try and withdraw your savings and see how much work it takes to have the bank hand you over a briefcase of bills.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Wolfier ( 94144 )
        > You were persecute for being an asshole

        In a civil society, people are prosecuted instead of persecuted.

    • Isn't the average person in debt? Just keep spending it isn't like you have anything to lose.

      This is why our economy is circling the inflation drain.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by znrt ( 2424692 )

      In a cashless society your money is yours only as long as the banks and government allow it.

      you know that one possible way out of us' colossal debt (which is otherwise already unpayable) would be just devaluating the dollar? have fun with those pieces of paper and metal of yours if that happens. no money is real, it's just trust.

  • Not new... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Monday June 30, 2025 @04:30PM (#65487012)

    This has been going on in China since before the pandemic. Five or six years ago it was already a common occurrence to find taxis that didn't want cash. Even street food vendors wanted to get paid electronically.

    It's certainly an interesting way for Big Brother to have the ability to know EXACTLY where everyone spends their money AND to have the ability to instantly cut someone off if they want to.

    No thanks.
     

    • the ability to know EXACTLY where everyone spends their money AND to have the ability to instantly cut someone off if they want to

      You can be sure the elements of the US government that love social control are salivating over the capabilities China has. What's new this year is that they might finally get done some of these wishlist things that were previously too radical.

      But the idea of a government money card is so tainted in the US that they'll implement it on the back-end instead. A system will be set up that all banks, bank-apps, and other assorted money-changers operating in the US must subscribe to. It will have a very boring, fi

  • A 50 round box of 5.56 NATO will stand in quite nicely for a $20 bill.

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