Nintendo Locked Down the Switch 2's USB-C Port, Broke Third-Party Docking (theverge.com) 96
Two accessory manufacturers have told The Verge that Nintendo has intentionally locked down the Switch 2's USB-C port using a new encryption scheme, preventing compatibility with third-party docks and accessories. "I haven't yet found proof of that encryption chip myself -- but when I analyzed the USB-C PD traffic with a Power-Z tester, I could clearly see the new Nintendo Switch not behaving like a good USB citizen should," writes The Verge's Sean Hollister. From the report: If you've been wondering why there are basically no portable Switch 2 docks on the market, this is the reason. Even Jsaux, the company that built its reputation by beating the Steam Deck dock to market, tells us it's paused its plans to build a Switch 2 dock because of Nintendo's actions. It's not simply because the Switch 2 now requires more voltage, as was previously reported; it's that Nintendo has made things even more difficult this generation.
do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:5, Insightful)
do they have the USB logo on the system?
Re: (Score:2)
Re:do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:5, Insightful)
The "evil" here is blocking compatibility with third party components. Open systems are good for the economy and good for the end-user.
Whether the way Nintendo went about it is illegal isn't for me to say. I am not a lawyer and anyway I don't have all the facts. But I DO know that Nintendo is extremely successful in this market and charges a premium for their hardware and their games, so it feels injuriously greedy of them to block third party hardware as well.
They could have chosen to do right by their customers, but they took the low road.
Shame on you, Nintendo.
Re: (Score:2)
They could have chosen to do right by their customers, but they took the low road.
Given their history with emulators it's safe to say the low road is the usual road with them. Nintendo being douchey is totally not new.
Re: (Score:2)
My first thought was that it is most likely an attempt to block exploits. The original Switch was exploited via flaws in external interfaces, so locking them down as much as possible is the obvious response.
Nintendo is about to find why even Apple caved (Score:3)
Whether the way Nintendo went about it is illegal isn't for me to say.
I suspect the ones who will get to say is the EU, specifically I suspect this will prompt an investigation as to whether this breaches the common charger directive [europa.eu]. Given:
additional proprietary charging protocols should not prevent, restrict or limit the maximum power achievable with the USB PD charging protocol and the harmonised charging hardware (receptacle, chips, etc.) integrated in the radio equipment
I suspect Nintendo may find themselves in trouble here if they've broken USB PD. They don't have to allow 3rd party interfaces to audio/video/etc under that directive but you should be able to charge at full speed via that port.
Re: (Score:3)
No, but calling it USB when the data is encrypted in a way that doesn't comply with the standard might be.
Re:do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:1)
If so that means the standards are ridiculous and need that giant gaping hole patched.
Re: (Score:2)
From what is described by an obvious layman, it looks as if it does complete the required initial negotiations, and then just switches to unstructured VDMs for some kind of extra "authentication" of the remote.
This is perfectly allowed.
Dick move, but an allowed one.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
USB PD operates off a side band so they can support hat ill regardless of any vender stuff. Also from the spec Additionally, vendors may support proprietary modes for use in dock solutions. [wikipedia.org] So if they wanted to implement a custom display interface they can just do it as long as the other USB parts work. The alt mode they used on the first switch was just off the shelf so now they can implement a custom vender built dock.
I am not saying this is good or bad. Alt mode was specifically designed for venders
Re: (Score:2)
They do label the cable "USB" on the box.
Doesn't the EU have a new standard in place that mandates All new small and medium-sized portable electronics including Laptops have a USB-C connector and must support fast charging the battery from that connector?
Re:do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the Switch 2 supports USB-PD just fine - you can plug it into any compatible charger just fine.
The problem here is using a USB-C dock - the Switch 2 only works with specific docks that are authorized, and not any generic USB-C dock you can buy anywhere.
Re: (Score:1)
After a few rounds of docked online Knockout Tour, when I switch to portable mode my Switch 2 is pretty warm. I'm fairly confident that an unregulated dock market would result in plentiful burned out Switch 2's. This would then incite the ire of Slashdot over expensive Switch 2's burning out, even though it would have been an issue with the dock's cooling system. And I'm sure the EU would still find a way to fine Nintendo infinity billion dollars over it. Realistically, it probably is better to have docks c
Re: (Score:2)
The EU directive applies only to devices that could be classified as "Radio equipment".
Because the Nintendo Switch 2 doesn't communicate with the outside world, they are off the hook, for now.
Re:do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, it does have Wifi and "Handheld video games consoles" is mentioned in the annex. So, no, Nintendo should not be off the hook this time. ...)
I'm stupid of course (and posting at 2 am
Re: (Score:2)
Nintendo will give up the entire European market before they cede control over the USB port. This should be fun to watch... from the sidelines. Popcorn?
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't Switch 2 support wifi? Or does that not count?
Re: (Score:1)
Not sure if it counts because the wifi is only used for peer-to-peer connections with other Nintendos or Nintendo servers. There's no stock web browser or generic media players or such in the store and no way to connect to unlicensed 3rd-party applications or make generic ad-hoc data transfers of any sort, so it might be arguably still a closed ecosystem.
Re: (Score:1)
supports crossplay, so very much open, thus must comply in the EU
Re: (Score:3)
Not sure if it counts because the wifi is only used for peer-to-peer connections with other Nintendos or Nintendo servers. There's no stock web browser or generic media players or such in the store and no way to connect to unlicensed 3rd-party applications or make generic ad-hoc data transfers of any sort, so it might be arguably still a closed ecosystem.
The law is not limited to radio equipment. "Handheld videogame consoles" are explicitly mentioned as devices which need to comply.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Ignore the GP, they are clueless. The law is not limited to radio equipment, Annex Ia gives the complete list of devices that are covered. The Switch 2 would be classified as "1.6 handheld videogame console".
Re:do they have the USB logo on the system? (Score:4, Informative)
The EU directive applies only to devices that could be classified as "Radio equipment".
Because the Nintendo Switch 2 doesn't communicate with the outside world, they are off the hook, for now.
I'm sorry but that is the dumbest comment about a law I've seen. Laws are not based on their title, laws are based on the contents of the text. The EU radio equipment directive is *NOT* limited to radio equipment.
This one time I'm going to do your homework for you. In the future actually read up the things you proclaim to know something about:
DIRECTIVE (EU) 2022/2380 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL...
ANNEX Ia
SPECIFICATIONS AND INFORMATION RELATING TO CHARGING APPLICABLE TO CERTAIN CATEGORIES OR CLASSES OF RADIO EQUIPMENT
1. The requirements set out in points 2 and 3 of this Part shall apply to the following categories or classes of radio equipment:
1.1. handheld mobile phones;
1.2. tablets;
1.3. digital cameras;
1.4. headphones;
1.5. headsets;
1.6. handheld videogame consoles;
1.7. portable speakers;
1.8. e-readers;
1.9. keyboards;
1.10. mice;
1.11. portable navigation systems;
1.12. earbuds;
1.13. laptops.
Re: (Score:3)
Apparently it does support charging, mostly. If you plug in a USB-C charger.
It balks when the video mode is negotiated if you plug in to a dock that supports alt modes.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, but the requirement is only to charge a battery. Also the requirement isn't in effect for devices like Laptops or the Switch 2. That starts only from April 2026.
Someone else mentioned docks specifically. TFS talks about voltage incompatibilities. It would be perfectly acceptable (legally) to have the Switch 2 able to charge (but not run) from a standard USB-PD charger and yet use a different and incompatible charging system to deliver a higher voltage on the run for continuous gameplay.
Re: (Score:2)
Correction, portable consoles already need to comply. Only laptops are exempt.
Re: (Score:2)
but the requirement is only to charge a battery.
I guess. This would still make 3rd party charging docks possible, however.
The HDMI port on the dock is a separate problem then. And what the EU really needs then is an additional directive that portable electronics which feature a docking system shall support any dock over the USB-C port adhering to the respective USB-C standard; they may not restrict external hardware to specific vendors or devices nor use cryptographic channels or techniques to identif
Re: (Score:2)
I feel that this violates the USB spec which means that cables and docks can't have USB-C logos on them.
Re: (Score:2)
You're absolutely allowed to use vendor specific VDMs to authorize what you'll connect to, just as your computer is allowed to come up with whatever criteria it wants before authorizing CIO streams over the TB Alt mode.
Re: (Score:2)
do they have the USB logo on the system?
No they don't. There's no USB logo or explicit USB compatibility given on the device. Or the original Switch for that matter.
You raise a point: specifications only matter for logo certification, there's no requirement for them to follow the spec. There is a requirement for the Switch 2 to charge its battery though using USB-PD in Europe from mid next year, but no requirement to do anything beyond that.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually correction, portable consoles already need to comply. Only laptops are exempt.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you talking EU laws? Because they only specify power delivery, nothing about dock functionality.
Re: (Score:3)
Then so does HDMI, because that's also encrypted.
Re: (Score:2)
That raises an interesting point. DVDs are encrypted, but for all intents and purposes are DRM-free these days because the code to decrypt them was released decades ago. Bluray is somewhere in the middle, the encryption being crackable but still needing some effort when a new disc with new keys is released.
From a right to repair standpoint, is it allowed to have some encryption that might prevent casual copying or cheating, but is also easily bypassed by repairers and archivists?
Re: (Score:2)
From a right to repair standpoint, is it allowed to have some encryption that might prevent casual copying or cheating, but is also easily bypassed by repairers and archivists?
It's not possible to have it both ways. It's either protected or it's not. If the encryption is defeated or bypassed then it opens the door to all use cases.
Also, any device or method that defeats or bypasses the encryption will be in violation of the DMCA. It sucks, but it's still the (flawed) law of the land. If the DMCA had existed back in the 80s, none of the (many, many) unlicensed NES games would have been released because bypassing the CIC chip would have been a violation of the DMCA and the publishe
Re: (Score:2)
"Also, any device or method that defeats or bypasses the encryption will be in violation of the DMCA."
Who get's to decide what is encryption and what is encoding?
Re: (Score:2)
According to the DMCA, the vendor who created the product whose encryption/encoding you are bypassing gets to decide. That's part of what makes it such a bad law. There is no third-party standard you can evaluate. You have to ask the vendor, and if they say it is encryption then it is encryption, even if it is just pig latin or rot-13.
Re: (Score:2)
lock in an Nintendo only changer? That is not allowed with USB.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:I like Nintendo (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo stands for quality. I love most of their games. I back their aggressive attacks at people who try to pirate their shit. I have to ask the pirates, why don't you try to spend your time making quality shit instead of just stealing IP from others?
It's not about the piracy, it's about the "third-party docks and accessories". And manufacturers who try to lock purchasers into their "official" accessories and supplies are scum, full stop. It's is pretty much equivalent to HP forcing owners to buy HP-only ink cartridges - you may remember how unpopular that shit was around here.
I hope the people who specialize in breaking this kind of protection succeed in giving Nintendo buyers the freedom that they should have by default.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
There is no equating HP to Nintendo. If I need to expand on that thought more, ask me.
Please expand on that thought. I'm curious to know if your thoughts on this align with the specific primary point the OP was making.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: I like Nintendo (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
I want an 3rd party controller with auto fire! (Score:2)
I want an 3rd party controller with auto fire!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Isn't that desire right there sufficient to justify Nintendo's actions? They're trying to build a fair gaming platform where people can expect that strangers playing online are playing on an even playing field. How do they do that if third-party controllers can offer actual in-game advantages?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple is not a completely closed ecosystem. You can use a Dell keyboard and a Logitech mouse with your Mac Mini, for example. There are legal battles being fought right now to make it even more open.
You have no basis whatsoever for your prediction "If Nintendo was open back in the day, they would not be the Nintendo we know now." That statement is based on nothing but pure imagination.
Open ecosystems provide consumers with more choices. That is an awesome benefit! I like the option to use Dell keyboard
Re: (Score:2)
But in a gaming platform, there's a clear downside: third-party hardware allows for cheats: one-button scripts, automatic reactions, etc. That's a consumer *disadvantage* when gamers are expecting fair competition. This seems to me like a strong argument for a closed system. How would opening up people abusing the game balance be an advantage to consumers? For single-player games, sure, but Nintendo has to design for both single player and multiplayer games these days, and the multiplayer games are often pl
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You reeallly want to check out Zelda ROTH. Open source C++ version of Zelda that blew my socks off. It's Link to the Past style graphics but you have stuff like Navi with you and fun mini games like having to go hunt for a certain monster type and kill it before a timer goes off.
By far though the dungeons are brutal. Like the 5th or 6th one I can't recall it's been 10 years, was extremely difficult with many many layers of different height bridges and clever use of things like having to fall through the flo
Re: I like Nintendo (Score:4, Interesting)
Buying Nintendo like Apple products is a choice consumers make when they want to be locked into whatever a company has to offer in hopes for exclusivity or better servuce.
I'd accept the analogy if Apple was caught hobbling third party USB-C accessories like Nintendo.
As an example Apple supports charging to and from the standard USB-BC and USB-PD in addition to their own BrickID. Plug in any USB-C charger that supports any of those standards and the Apple device will charge. For someone with an older BrickID charger from Apple there can be devices that will fall back to the 4.5 watts from early USB charging, as opposed to 10 or 12 watts as advertised on the tin, but that is more a matter of such a charger being built in a time before USB-BC, the standard didn't exist yet for Apple to follow. Apple was adding to USB compatibility, not taking it away like Nintendo.
I suspect someone will want to bring up Lightning as an argument of Apple playing proprietary games. Lightning existed before USB-C, and once established as the standard for iPhone and other Apple product lines there would be people upset on the change to USB-C. Or they'd be upset until the standards for audio, video, and other modes were standardized for USB-C years later. Adapters existed for Lightning to third party peripherals, by all appearances that is not the case with Nintendo. Third parties that wanted access to the Lightning spec could get it with MFi, Made For iPod/iPhone/iPad. Does Ninentdo offer anything similar? It does not appear so.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nintendo Co., Ltd. is a Japanese multinational video game company headquartered in Kyoto.
1. Nintendo and Apple are in the same market - handheld gaming. I'm willing to bet that Apple sell more games through the App Store than Nintendo sells globally each year. The difference is Apple is diversified and Nintendo isn't.
2. What exactly does Trump have to do with anything?
Re: (Score:2)
"What exactly does Trump have to do with anything?"
He imposes tariffs on companies he doesn't like and gives favors to ones he does.
Re: (Score:3)
I think there's a solid case to be made for both Apple and Nintendo that keeping control of ther platform ensures better reliability. I don't know enough about Nintendo to say, but my experience with their stuff vs. third party stuff is that theirs works better, even on the wii. Apple has, historically, made a way for some third party hardware stuff, partnerships the form with certain companies who seem to be able to extend functionality in an Apple kind of way, and with concomitant support of the products
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Nintendo is definitely not a small game company. It is the largest company in the entire world that focuses exclusively on gaming.
Re: (Score:2)
Nintendo Co., Ltd. is a Japanese multinational video game company headquartered in Kyoto. It had a revenue of $13.923 billion in 2023.
What's it actually like to have brain damage? I'm genuinely curious.
Re: (Score:2)
Buying Nintendo like Apple products is a choice consumers make when they want to be locked into whatever a company has to offer in hopes for exclusivity or better servuce. However, if said company wants to raise software prices, suddenly make a product obsolete, use your info for marketing, youve already signed the waiver so too bad. Id love to believe locking out those USB ports means better company support but funny thing is, it never does.
That's the thing, Apple has never gone that far. Yeah, the Lightning connector was locked down, but they also made a USB adapter that could adapt it to connect to compatible USB accessories, and that included a wide range of stuff from hubs and SD card adapters to gigabit NICs. And their USB-C port has never been locked down at all.
The closest Apple ever got was not allowing third-party DVD drives to work with some of Apple's software, but that was done for MPEG licensing reasons, not revenue.
If Nintendo
Re: (Score:2)
If Nintendo is shipping something with a USB-like port that isn't standards-compliant, that's way worse than just about any other company in the entire industry has done.
Like my Raspberry Pi? ;)
Other than that- they're not.
I haven't seen any evidence of a compliance problem- but their dock behavior does appear underhanded. They appear to be using some kind of authentication method, but that is perfectly allowed. They complete the necessary parts of the DFP/UFP and PD negotiation. They just seem to be expecting some kind of vendor-specific VDM for "authorization" before they'll enable DP Alt mode, which is again, allowed. But a dick move either way.
Re: (Score:2)
If Nintendo is shipping something with a USB-like port that isn't standards-compliant, that's way worse than just about any other company in the entire industry has done.
Like my Raspberry Pi? ;)
Sorry, I meant *intentionally* non-standards-compliant.
Other than that- they're not.
I haven't seen any evidence of a compliance problem- but their dock behavior does appear underhanded. They appear to be using some kind of authentication method, but that is perfectly allowed. They complete the necessary parts of the DFP/UFP and PD negotiation. They just seem to be expecting some kind of vendor-specific VDM for "authorization" before they'll enable DP Alt mode, which is again, allowed. But a dick move either way.
Could it just be that they don't support DP Alt mode at all, and that their dock uses DisplayLink instead? Or that they don't implement the split mode where half the bandwidth is for USB and half the bandwidth is for DP, like most docking stations might typically use?
It's way worse than underhanded. It means that your USB-C Switch can't connect via USB-C to any USB-C-equipped television sets, because those by definition won't send Nintendo's nonstanda
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry, I meant *intentionally* non-standards-compliant.
Fair :)
Could it just be that they don't support DP Alt mode at all, and that their dock uses DisplayLink instead? Or that they don't implement the split mode where half the bandwidth is for USB and half the bandwidth is for DP, like most docking stations might typically use?
Na, it's DP-Alt. Third-party docks can even get the DP-Alt mode to enable after sending a specifically crafted VDM (basically, packet of the CC lines of the USB-C connector- used for Alt mode/PD/USB mode negotiation)
It's way worse than underhanded. It means that your USB-C Switch can't connect via USB-C to any USB-C-equipped television sets, because those by definition won't send Nintendo's nonstandard VDM.
Spot on.
If it were even remotely acceptable to play fast and loose with the spec like that
Nothing fast and loose about it. PCs use authentication methods before moving to TB+CIO Alt mode as well (for safety purposes).
This isn't covered under the spec, but is perfectly allowed.
It is shitty behavior, for sure. I'm not justifying it. Fuck them for doing it, in fact. I'
Re: (Score:2)
I hope the people who specialize in breaking this kind of protection succeed in giving Nintendo buyers the freedom that they should have by default
They will, but the challenge this time around is Nintendo will likely be making full use of their new power to brick peoples' consoles. Unauthorized dock detected? Bricked.
Re: (Score:2)
It's is pretty much equivalent to HP forcing owners to buy HP-only ink cartridges - you may remember how unpopular that shit was around here.
I'm sure they posted angrily here from their iPhones. People are very selective about how they apply openness around here.
Re: (Score:2)
Besides this doesn't stop the use of the USB port on it. As soon as someone is able to sideload software on to it you can still use that or the WiFi. I think this is more to stop what happened to the first Switch and the PR nightmare of bad docks bricking the Switch.
Re: (Score:1)
Nintendo stands for quality.
No they don't. They stand for making joycons so badly that stick drift has become a deliberate revenue stream for them.
Re: I like Nintendo (Score:2)
It's all in the name. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Don't like it? Switch.
Fine. What is your proposed competing console to switch to in order to play Mario Kart World on without the bullshit?
Re: (Score:2)
I'll wait unboxing mine until someone finds a buffer overflow in their Bluetooth driver
Alternate headline (Score:2)
Universal usb mandate (Score:2)
I would buy an OEM travel dock but (Score:2)
... they do not exist.
Simple solution ... (Score:2)
Don't buy the thing!
I'm pretty much done spending any money on consoles due to the corporate greed that comes with them. My g/f was a huge console nerd and owns pretty much every game system made after a certain year. (She didn't bother to collect the early systems like the Atari 2600.) In her defense, she also had 5 kids so the money spent on all of the games and systems and accessories was justified by all of them enjoying using them too.
But I lost all interest in it after buying a PS4 and seeing how ex